Constitution Saved? HOW

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Darren wrote: A few of us are stepping forward, but is it too little too late?

Sadly, yes, I agree with lundbaek when he says it's too late to save us from the cleansing of America. We've ignored counsel in the 60's and 70's and now we've passed the point of resolving this without pain and hardship. Once the government, as we know it is gone, we will gather together to a literal gathering place of LDS and build up a new city. We will abide by constitutional principles there (maybe not the exact same constitution) and people will flee their places of chaos just to be among Mormons in safety and civility.

lundbaek
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by lundbaek »

We ignored counsel in the 60's and 70's that could have reversed the "awful situation" and restored the principles of the original Constituiton to our government. For the Church to resume that counsel now would probably do more harm than good. But the counsel is there, just not nearly as obvious, unless one is attuned to it.

The thought of being attuned to it reminds me of an incident I checked out several years ago that demonstrates the importance of being in tune. As stated in an affidavit written years later and showed me by his wife, on 4 December 1941 senior USN radio operator Ralph Briggs was monitoring Japanese radio broadcasts and listening for certain specific messages. One of those messages was "East wind, rain". Apparently, he was one of a very few Americans who knew what that message would mean: war with the United States. He transmitted the message to the appropriate office in Washington, D.C. Instead of being acted upon and forwarded to the Army and Navy commanders on Hawaii, the message was suppressed. (And he was forbidden to discuss it for the remainder of his long Navy career.) To any others who might have picked up that transmission, it would have meant nothing.

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SwissMrs&Pitchfire
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by SwissMrs&Pitchfire »

"we should be doing things today instead of waiting until after the cleansing trial" why then are not more members engaged in this, and why are stake presidents and bishops not promoting such actions?
Right now the only thing that can be done is to study and know intimately the principles and operations of our heavenly standard/s. And that is occurring. I know that is frustrating for you, but the Lord allows it to be so until we are fully ripe in iniquity. Certainly destruction is something we have as a whole already earned (see quotes about how we are as bad or worse than the days of Noah or Jews who crucified Christ etc...), but the Lord in wisdom waits until it is time. Why do the prophets entertain their enemies now? Why do they wait to fight them? Are they waiting for us? Are they waiting for the Lord? Or are they just waiting in wisdom for the time to be right as decided by the use and misuse of agency of man?

Should we form Zion today and govern it by a separate standard then the laws in the land where it resides? In Joseph Smith's day the answer for a time was yes, and then no. As far as I know it is still no.

Why? Because it wouldn't work?

Why? I don't know but I can speculate that we aren't yet prepared (not humble enough, not faithful enough etc...), I can also speculate that the world wouldn't yet allow it and we'd all die martyrs and frustrate the purposes of Adam-Ondi-Ahman and Zion by the loss.

What have we been commanded to do? Have we been commanded to overthrow the Gadianton Secret Combinations of our day?

Personally I think we are still in school and not yet prepared to do the work. We need to graduate first.

lundbaek
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by lundbaek »

I believe that commandment in Ether 8: to "awake to a sense of your awful situation , because of this secret combination which shall be among you" and to "suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain.." still apply to us today. President Packer's article in the August 2010 Ensign magazine should serve to remind us of that rresponsibility. And D&C 98 tells us that "the saints are to befriend the constitutional law of the land." I think that how we go about complying with these commandments is largely between us individually and the Lord, but I think we at least need to be trying to find out what we each can do. And that certainly includes "to study and know intimately the principles and operations of our heavenly standard/s."

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SwissMrs&Pitchfire
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by SwissMrs&Pitchfire »

I agree, but I think that not letting them get above you is entirely a personal matter now as they have already completely attained the sole management of our government. It wasn't always so, but it is so now.

lundbaek
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by lundbaek »

I like to think I am helping to prevent the LDGs from getting any further above us. Or at least slowing it down. And I do see some wins for our side. Just no where near enough. And in the course of the battle others get their eyes opened and occasionally the odd person jumps in with us. In that regard I think our efforts are well spent.

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dennis
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by dennis »

"If you will that I give unto you a place in the celestial world, you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which I have commanded you and required of you" (D&C 78:7).

Then he commands both the Church and its members "to prepare and organize" their temporal affairs according to the law of his nize" their temporal affairs according to the law of his gospel, "that through my providence," saith the Lord, "notwithstanding the tribulation which shall descend upon you, that the church may stand independent above all other Creatures beneath the celestial world;
The Church, which administers the gospel, and the Saints who have received the gospel, must be independent of all the powers of earth, as they work out their salvation--temporally and spiritually--with fear and trembling before the Lord!

As the Saints of the Most High we shall strive to "stand independent above all other creatures beneath the celestial world"
Relying always on the Lord, we must become independent of the world. We must be self-reliant. Using the agency God has given us, we must work out our own economic and temporal problems
We must maintain our own health, sow our own gardens, store our own food, educate and train ourselves to handle the daily affairs of life.
It is the aim of the Church to help the Saints to care for themselves and, where need be, to make food and clothing and other necessities available. lest the Saints turn to the doles and evils of Babylon. To help care for the poor among them the Church must operate farms, grow vineyards, run dairies, manage factories, and ten thousand other things--all in such a way as to be independent of the powers of evil in the world.

We do not know when the calamities and troubles of the last days will fall upon any of us as individuals or upon bodies of the Saints. The Lord deliberately withholds from us the day and hour of his coming and of the tribulations which shall precede it--all as part of the testing and probationary experiences of mortality. He simply tells us to watch and be ready.
A commandmend I give unto you, to prepare and organize your selves by a bond or everlasting covenant. . behold this is the preparation wherewith I prepare you

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AussieOi
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by AussieOi »

soem good points in these last few posts
+1 to them

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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Like »

Harry believes in the Constitution and is trying to keep B.O. in check :lol:


buffalo_girl
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by buffalo_girl »

Harry Reid is trying to keep BO in check? What's he talking about?

He can't keep his own BS in check!

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

Harry believes in the Constitution and is trying to keep B.O. in check
:lol:

I'm disappointed! I was expecting him to pull out a stick of deodorant or something. :lol:

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Moss Man
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Moss Man »

dennis wrote:"If you will that I give unto you a place in the celestial world, you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which I have commanded you and required of you" (D&C 78:7).

Then he commands both the Church and its members "to prepare and organize" their temporal affairs according to the law of his nize" their temporal affairs according to the law of his gospel, "that through my providence," saith the Lord, "notwithstanding the tribulation which shall descend upon you, that the church may stand independent above all other Creatures beneath the celestial world;
The Church, which administers the gospel, and the Saints who have received the gospel, must be independent of all the powers of earth, as they work out their salvation--temporally and spiritually--with fear and trembling before the Lord!

As the Saints of the Most High we shall strive to "stand independent above all other creatures beneath the celestial world"
Relying always on the Lord, we must become independent of the world. We must be self-reliant. Using the agency God has given us, we must work out our own economic and temporal problems
We must maintain our own health, sow our own gardens, store our own food, educate and train ourselves to handle the daily affairs of life.
It is the aim of the Church to help the Saints to care for themselves and, where need be, to make food and clothing and other necessities available. lest the Saints turn to the doles and evils of Babylon. To help care for the poor among them the Church must operate farms, grow vineyards, run dairies, manage factories, and ten thousand other things--all in such a way as to be independent of the powers of evil in the world.

We do not know when the calamities and troubles of the last days will fall upon any of us as individuals or upon bodies of the Saints. The Lord deliberately withholds from us the day and hour of his coming and of the tribulations which shall precede it--all as part of the testing and probationary experiences of mortality. He simply tells us to watch and be ready.
A commandmend I give unto you,prepare and organize your selves by a bond or everlasting covenant. . behold this is the preparation wherewith I prepare you
How can we truly be independent above every creature when we must rely on fiat currency to conduct our affairs? Even if we pay off all of our debts with FRNs we shift the debt onto someone else. I suppose if we have a financial collapse we could still make use of the existing infrastructure (vineyards, dairies, etc.) but how will we get our inputs (replacement parts, seed, etc.)?

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Moss Man
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Moss Man »

lundbaek wrote:We ignored counsel in the 60's and 70's that could have reversed the "awful situation" and restored the principles of the original Constituiton to our government. For the Church to resume that counsel now would probably do more harm than good. But the counsel is there, just not nearly as obvious, unless one is attuned to it.

The thought of being attuned to it reminds me of an incident I checked out several years ago that demonstrates the importance of being in tune. As stated in an affidavit written years later and showed me by his wife, on 4 December 1941 senior USN radio operator Ralph Briggs was monitoring Japanese radio broadcasts and listening for certain specific messages. One of those messages was "East wind, rain". Apparently, he was one of a very few Americans who knew what that message would mean: war with the United States. He transmitted the message to the appropriate office in Washington, D.C. Instead of being acted upon and forwarded to the Army and Navy commanders on Hawaii, the message was suppressed. (And he was forbidden to discuss it for the remainder of his long Navy career.) To any others who might have picked up that transmission, it would have meant nothing.
What about those of us who joined the Church in the late 90s? Am I supposed to ignore what went on in the 60s and 70s as just a history lesson? Joseph Smith was told that the Church was condemned for not reading the Book of Mormon and Ezra Taft Benson said we were still under that condemnation (ove 100 years later). Can the same argument be made that we are still under commandment to restore Constitutional principles to our government?

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Gideon
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Gideon »

There is a course being taught nationwide, whose goal is to create a new generation of American Founders, people who think like our Founding Fathers and know what what they knew. I have started to take this course, and I am very satisfied with the results so far.
More info can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBehCRAWJCA
http://www.monticellocollege.org/founda ... f-liberty/

President Benson stated that the Constitution would not be saved in Washington. If we are going to be involved in saving it, we need to learn it on our own. We don't need a church program, or any advice from priesthood leaders. We can be anxiously engaged in a good cause and bring to pass much good.

As the Lord said:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, even as you desire of me so it shall be unto you; and if you desire, you shall be the means of doing much good in this generation.
(D&C 6:8)

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dennis
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by dennis »

We start producing what we need. One seed , one heart , one mind at a time. direction is more important than speed. Some things I am doing . Repenting. Changing my thinking. Especially in terms of cooperating. Moss Man you know about plants. you could share novel ways to produce food. Mummys Idea about growing a winter garden influenced me. Now I have Brocolli, Brussel sprouts, onions, water cress, aloe vera, growing, and several seeds sprouting, and a perpetual project saving all seeds. To help get the Idea across We made a sign for the fridg. Please Please Please Save All SEEDS. tHE LARGEST foods products company in the world is a coop in India. Others are doing it. We Can also.

Awake & Arise
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Awake & Arise »

Does anyone here believe there is a humanly possible way to save the constitution, our freedoms, anything good?

I don't.

It will happen as all heavenly things do. We will struggle. We will do our best. We will face eminent failure and death because we are just not strong enough as human beings. And when it seems like nothing can save us, when the devil and all his forces are laughing above us, the pit is dug, and we are at the very edge with showers of dirt from our shoes falling in, the Lord will step in and do the rest. It is a test of faith, as is everything else. We must have enough faith that our noses can be touching a wall and the Lord says, "Take a step," and we take a step. The most important thing is to keep fighting and keep up the faith even when we see there is no way out.

Most church members are not guilty of neglecting the constitution. Most are new converts or young people who were not taught constitutional principles at the feet of their parents. Yet many of those ignorant ones are doing their best to follow the Spirit and as a result they are starting to realize things aren't quite right. Have faith in them. They will win in the end.

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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

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Awake & Arise wrote:Does anyone here believe there is a humanly possible way to save the constitution, our freedoms, anything good?

I don't.
I agree. How do we stop a beast like the Fed?



Check out the Feds war on Christmas


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Darren
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Darren »

Awake & Arise wrote:Does anyone here believe there is a humanly possible way to save the constitution, our freedoms, anything good?
Before the existence of the United States Constitution there is the continuing goodness (D&C 86:8-11) of the tribes of Israel way of incorporating a community under the Church and Kingdom of God. Incorporating communities (of businesses working together by law), is how we save the constitution, which is the culture of the United States Constitution.

We, as a continuation of that culture of incorporating communities under the Church and Kingdom of God, have, from time immemorial, legal standing in the world, that we are not standing sure upon, and can certainly start right and go right, granted we operate upon precise knowledge of how to do so. Our country’s crime today is a forgetting of our original constitution, and because of that forgetting, in walks the Empire and its stooges to run our lives.

Saving the constitution is the act of saving the Constitution. And we will save this much older constitution when we begin to operate our lives, including our business and economic lives by that original constitution. Remember Cleon Skousen's Freeman Institute? What was the Freeman Institute trying to do for our people, as directed by President David O. McKay?

The word constitution is a catholic word. Incorporation is also a catholic word.

Law is a gospel word. Oath, writing, work and by-laws are gospel words.

Thinking about our part of the work and glory of mankind, we take an oath, write it down, with by-laws to keep us living by law, then we have the basis of the original contract between the lost tribes of Israel and Jesus Christ, as he set up that original contract among them in the North.

Yes we can save the Constitution! How? "Few there be that find it" (how to do it), because of "gross darkness."

Will we save the Constitution? That is the question. And to do so by overcoming our brainwashing and ignorance of how to do it?

God Bless,
Darren

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Rensai
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Rensai »

"Let us suppose that it is too late to save freedom. It is still accounted unto us for righteousness' sake to stand and fight." - Ezra Taft Benson

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Rensai wrote:
"Let us suppose that it is too late to save freedom. It is still accounted unto us for righteousness' sake to stand and fight." - Ezra Taft Benson

Wonderful quote! Let us not get discouraged!

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Darren
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Darren »

Bruce Wydner wrote:On the BYU Campus, in 1973, W. Cleon Skousen met me, and I told him how the Parish Records of the Countries of Europe (the Records that are the great resource for Genealogy Work in Europe) tell the true History of the “Communes” of pre-Roman Catholic Northern Europe. “Parish” and “Commune” are two names for the same thing.

I effectively told him how the great mystery at the crux of President Clark’s warning, given below, is explained very simply in a set of stories which the Genealogy “Commune” Records authenticate.

At that Cleon told me that in 1967 President David O. McKay called him into his Office and told him that he was giving him an assignment.

President McKay said, “Brother Skousen, our People are becoming slaves. They are falling for the same old lures and tricks that all of the rest of the World is. I want you to go down to Provo and work on how Our People can Work Together by the Law.”

Cleon responded, “Can’t the University do it?”
President McKay answered, “No, they don’t have the vision.”
Cleon asked, “But, what can I do?”
Then, Cleon told me, “He prophesied to me, ‘You go down there, and the way will open up!’”

Then Cleon said, “You know, I think this (The Church’s Genealogy Records of the Communes of Europe authenticating that Story that tells the origin of the Communes of Europe and of the “Commune Law,” what “the Common Law of England” [the “Law” of the USA] is called in other languages) is it!”

Since 1973 Cleon and I had collaborated. Several years ago Cleon invited me to be his co-author in writing, “The Fifth Thousand Years,” basically, the History of Christianity, from the birth of Christ to the Crusades. This History emphasizes the details of how the Anglo-Saxons brought their “Law,” “Freedom,” “Rights” etc. to England. This History makes perfectly clear where this Custom comes from of Withholding the Elements of the “Communion” of the Lord’s Supper from one’s diet for Collection by the Leadership of a “Commune,” the wide-spread knowledge of which information might change “the existing state of mind of the peoples of the world” enough so that that “Bubble” might become so deflated for them, before it bursts, that that bursting will have little or no effect upon those with this changed “state of mind,” because of the use which they may make of this information “to prepare (themselves) to meet this oncoming disaster.”

That is, many think today that when that authenticated Story is popularized around the World, that will so change “the existing state of mind of the peoples of the world” ― which “existing state of mind” is the ignorance of the World’s Population as to the origin of the Free Enterprise System of the Peoples of Northern Europe (that the World’s Economy has come to operate on since World War II) and which ignorance is, in effect, like a huge Bubble that the World’s Economy has come to be built on today, which Bubble could pop at any moment, in part because that ignorance is so widespread ― that that “chaos” that President Clark spoke of would not need to happen, at least not to the detriment of those who know this information.

In General Conference, in October, 1937 President Clark said:
Recently I have had the opportunity to discuss world conditions with men from both sides of the Atlantic who are leaders in industry and finance.
... European nations are piling up enormous quantities of raw materials used in war...
These same authorities declare that if war shall come, its ending will leave the world in a state of exhaustion heretofore unknown to modern times; that the depression from which we are now emerging will be but a shadow of the real hard times that will then come. They feel that this next world depression will be near, if not quite, a chaos which will, in the existing state of mind of the peoples of the world, threaten the very existence of government, of property, of human rights, of liberty, even of the family itself.
... shrewd ... statesmen of all Europe are now planning to have the people of the United States finance the next European war either before the war or during its progress.
... I know of no responsible authority who challenges the forecast that within the next few years we shall, in the normal course, suffer a depression far more serious ... than the one we are now finishing.
... remembering that the measure of time with God is not the measure of time with man...
What may we as a people and as individuals do for ourselves to prepare to meet this oncoming disaster?
Let every head of every household see to it that he has on hand enough food and clothing, and, where possible, fuel also, for at least a year ahead.
Anyone who knows anything about the USA knows that, by the First Amendment to the US Constitution, the US Government “shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,” let alone is forcing the People of the USA to build everything in their lives upon the “Bubble” ― that is, place the Existence of the Monetary System upon which the entirety of the Economic Activities of their everyday lives is based ― on an enforced Collection by the US Government of the Collection that is “the Essence of THE ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION” of the “COMMUNES” of pre-Roman Catholic Northern Europe.

Virtually everyone in the World wants to know how there is no reason for them to keep all of the activities of their lives built on nothing but that horrible Bubble. At that time they will see that there is a wonderful alternative: to learn how to and to begin to Work Together (with others) By The Law. However, even after this is done, the horror is, that “darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face. Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord. (D&C 112:24-26)

freedomforall
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by freedomforall »

Getting things turned around may not be an event, rather, a process...a process that will take the awakening, conscience effort and determination of many saints to be effective.

I submitted a post dealing with "Marxism in America" of which has had no responses. This is a fine example of how apathy works. This General tells us plain and simple what he has observed and has given us a way we can stand up and make a difference. He states several serious tactics that are in play right now. He also gives us an excellent way, at the end of his statement, for us to combine as LDS and get our views and requirements known. I for one am doing just that. How many more are willing to follow suit?

Please watch and listen to: http://www.morningstartv.com/oak-initia ... sm-america

And: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/reese.asp

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Original_Intent
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Original_Intent »

In another thread it was asked what laws we currently disobey. I thought of an example this morning that I don;t mind sharing as I am pretty sure the statue of limitations has run out (if such applied) and also my father, who was the main "criminal" (also serving as bishop at the time, by the way) has passed away so is beyong the reach of the long arm of the law.

In my first home we had a very large master bedroom. I had owned the home for a few years prior to getting married, and after getting married we discovered that - surprise! - the closet wasn't big enough for two people's clothes - especially if one of those two was a woman.

So for a Christmas gift, my dad partitioned off part of the bedroom and made it into a walk in closet.

No electrical work. No plumbing. Just two walls and an extra wide entrance.

Also, no permits and no inspections. I'm not sure, but I am pretty sure that was at least a couple of violations of "the law". And you know what? It was really not the governments business to come in and say we needed to meet such and such requirements, such as the entryway had to be so wide and so tall, or we needed to post a maximum occupancy sign, or whatever other dumb regulations.

I guess for flouting the law my dad shouldn't have held a temple recommend. And there are probably some here who truly think that.

lundbaek
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by lundbaek »

A suggestion for you, OI: Don't ask. Don't tell. It may have been your responsibility to get whateveer permit was required, not your dad's. Years ago when we lived in New York State we engaged a carpenter in our ward to add a patio deck onto the back of our house. We never thought about any permit.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Post by Original_Intent »

lundbaek wrote:A suggestion for you, OI: Don't ask. Don't tell. It may have been your responsibility to get whateveer permit was required, not your dad's. Years ago when we lived in New York State we engaged a carpenter in our ward to add a patio deck onto the back of our house. We never thought about any permit.
Heh heh - wise words, and thank you. And perhaps it was unwise for me to bring it up. I just thought it was a good example of where I personally feel that just ignoring a "law" (regulation really, but most won't know the difference) is completely justifiable and not going to put your eternal salvation at risk.

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