You family member just got raped and murdered

[NoGreaterLove]

You walk into your house and see one of your family members has been raped and murdered. What do you do?
You start to call the police, but wait.... there is no police the conspiracy theorists dismantled them because power corrupts and they were afraid it would take away their rights of freedom. In fact there is no FBI, CIA, Senators, Legislators, DMV etc.
Your neighbor comes over and he says, I saw the car and the suspect leave your house. He gives you a description of the car. The car had no license plate because the DMV was also dismantled (unfair taxation). You are frustrated because you do not recognized the description of the car or person, neither does your neighbor.
Even if the police were still in existence, the blood or semen evidence would do no good. The theorists dismantled all sources of private information gathering on the premises of right to privacy. Those information sites the federal and state governments were constructing that would have contained pertinent info to help determine who your family members rapist and killer was are now dismantled and burned down.
Actually all the DNA labs, fingerprint labs, and any facility where any type of personal information was stored is now burned to the ground.
So you sit and ponder, what am I going to do? Who do I turn to for help? What if this person is a neighbor? What if they are going to do this to someone else? Does this person know where my children go to school? Does he know where I work, go to church. What if it is a personal matter with him and he still intends to harm my family? I do not even know who he is. I have not one to turn to for help. No one could help even if they tried. How would we be able to use any evidence against him? We do not even have a court system anymore. The courts were deemed to be corrupt establishments where men vie to get power and gain. Even if they did exist, they could not keep records of there cases anyway. In fact the jails can not keep a record anymore either. In fact, the jail facilities were deemed to be possible FEMA camps and were burned to the ground also. Wow, things are so messed up.

I post this to establish a point. The point is all of those entities and resources that some on our site seem to loathe, do serve good purposes. Law and order, justice for the victims, protection from the wicked are the purposes of these things. So I ask you, could you tone it down a little? If we took your venting seriously and established a society using your conspiracy theories as our guide, we would cease to be a free people in a matter of days. You would destroy every source of protection we have, every source of peace. Who are the gadiantons? Could you be playing into their hands? Ask yourself, what am I promoting with my ranting and raving? Who's side am I really on. Have TPTB duped me? Am I unknowingly promoting their agenda?

[Original_Intent]

and if they don't pat down your privates, you are going to get blown up on a plane...

Reading your post, the thought that comes to mind is the quote about those who will exchange freedom for liberty will lose both.

And I don't think anyone here is promoting the anarchy that you portray in your example. But many of the powers that you talk about should be at a much more local level and not under centralized government control.

Certainly databases of criminals (felons) all the data possible should be accessible at the federal level. But gathering information on regular citizens, composing "watch lists" based on who you supported in the last election, or that you have an anti abortion bumper sticker, or are a member of the John Birch Society?

It is all about keeping government at ALL LEVELS within their proper bounds, not about eliminating everything. And the vast majority of what is done IS beyond the constitutional authority and should be reined in.

And yes, based on the overall tone of your post, I do think that to an extent you have been duped and you are being overly trusting in those who have repeatedly shown that they do not deserve it.

[NoGreaterLove]

It is all about keeping government at ALL LEVELS within their proper bounds, not about eliminating everything. And the vast majority of what is done IS beyond the constitutional authority and should be reined in.

This is a great statement! It leaves room for moderation. I completely agree. I am hoping to encourage moderation on this subject, tone it down. If we do not then we are encouraging anarchy.
I agree we have bad mixed with the good. But we also have good mixed with the bad. We need to acknowledge that more often.

[loquaciousmomma]

I agree with OI. I, for one do not advocate anarchy.

NGL, there needs to be an ongoing dialog in a free society about the limits to which a government should go. We need to be ever vigilant to point out abuses and to demand retrenchment when the government goes too far.

Sure, there are anarchists out there, but the majority of those who take issue with the various aspects of the government only want the government to pull back, not dissolve.

[Jason]

Of course the reality is that those obsessed with power are not simply going to pull back because a few people request it.....so it takes force to accomplish anything of that magnitude. And since the conspiracy is so entrenched and far reaching within nearly every aspect of government from clandestine intelligence agencies to the welfare agencies......it will take a complete destruction of the government to wipe out their power base.

So I am praying for the collapse of the government...or more specifically the judgments of God to roll forth in power and glory! Let come what comes and the fallout be whatever it may be. I know there's a light at the end of the tunnel and though I may not live to see it (survive the fallout)....some will and they will witness the ushering in of the Millennium with all its glory and righteousness (not to mention peace and goodwill towards one another).

[shadow]

Of course the reality is that those obsessed with power are not simply going to pull back because a few people request it.....so it takes force to accomplish anything of that magnitude. And since the conspiracy is so entrenched and far reaching within nearly every aspect of government from clandestine intelligence agencies to the welfare agencies......it will take a complete destruction of the government to wipe out their power base.

So I am praying for the collapse of the government!

A big problem is career government employees. They seem to have just as much power as politicians and they're harder to remove from "office".
Yes, police officers should only be allowed to "serve" for a limited time.

[Jason]

Of course the reality is that those obsessed with power are not simply going to pull back because a few people request it.....so it takes force to accomplish anything of that magnitude. And since the conspiracy is so entrenched and far reaching within nearly every aspect of government from clandestine intelligence agencies to the welfare agencies......it will take a complete destruction of the government to wipe out their power base.

So I am praying for the collapse of the government!

A big problem is career government employees. They seem to have just as much power as politicians and they're harder to remove from "office".
Yes, police officers should only be allowed to "serve" for a limited time.

Ahh you mean the 4th branch of government that's not voted in and stays for life....and builds up their pyramids of power and authority! Administration XYZ's to go along with the ABC's of the intelligence community.

[dirtdarte]

Law gets it's authority from the people in a Constitutional Republic.

You describe a complete collapse of the Constitution and law in general.

In that case, it's up to the people to protect themselves and enforce some level of civility. For me, it would be summary execution of the suspect after I am convinced that he is guilty. Boom... bullet to the head. Simple.

[InfoWarrior82]

Boy, NGL... I bet you'd hate to live in the 1800's and early 1900's!!!

[NoGreaterLove]

So I am praying for the collapse of the government

I agree, to a certain point. The Lord says the wicked will destroy the wicked. I am just asking everyone to take a look at what they are saying on this forum and make sure they are not part of the wicked who are destroying the wicked. It needs to be done in a Christ-like manner, not Satan's way.

[NoGreaterLove]

Boy, NGL... I bet you'd hate to live in the 1800's and early 1900's!!!

They had their law enforcement, militias, sheriffs, gov officials, intelligence gathering entities. They showed a lot more respect and honor to their government than some do on this forum.

[InfoWarrior82]

Boy, NGL... I bet you'd hate to live in the 1800's and early 1900's!!!

They had their law enforcement, militias, sheriffs, gov officials, intelligence gathering entities. They showed a lot more respect and honor to their government than some do on this forum.

I guess my point was that there was no DMV or DOH (department of horses), fingerprint databases, etc...

[notjamesbond003.5]

You walk into your house and see one of your family members has been raped and murdered. What do you do?
You start to call the police, but wait.... there is no police the conspiracy theorists dismantled them because power corrupts and they were afraid it would take away their rights of freedom. In fact there is no FBI, CIA, Senators, Legislators, DMV etc.
Your neighbor comes over and he says, I saw the car and the suspect leave your house. He gives you a description of the car. The car had no license plate because the DMV was also dismantled (unfair taxation). You are frustrated because you do not recognized the description of the car or person, neither does your neighbor.
Even if the police were still in existence, the blood or semen evidence would do no good. The theorists dismantled all sources of private information gathering on the premises of right to privacy. Those information sites the federal and state governments were constructing that would have contained pertinent info to help determine who your family members rapist and killer was are now dismantled and burned down.
Actually all the DNA labs, fingerprint labs, and any facility where any type of personal information was stored is now burned to the ground.
So you sit and ponder, what am I going to do? Who do I turn to for help? What if this person is a neighbor? What if they are going to do this to someone else? Does this person know where my children go to school? Does he know where I work, go to church. What if it is a personal matter with him and he still intends to harm my family? I do not even know who he is. I have not one to turn to for help. No one could help even if they tried. How would we be able to use any evidence against him? We do not even have a court system anymore. The courts were deemed to be corrupt establishments where men vie to get power and gain. Even if they did exist, they could not keep records of there cases anyway. In fact the jails can not keep a record anymore either. In fact, the jail facilities were deemed to be possible FEMA camps and were burned to the ground also. Wow, things are so messed up.

I post this to establish a point. The point is all of those entities and resources that some on our site seem to loathe, do serve good purposes. Law and order, justice for the victims, protection from the wicked are the purposes of these things. So I ask you, could you tone it down a little? If we took your venting seriously and established a society using your conspiracy theories as our guide, we would cease to be a free people in a matter of days. You would destroy every source of protection we have, every source of peace. Who are the gadiantons? Could you be playing into their hands? Ask yourself, what am I promoting with my ranting and raving? Who's side am I really on. Have TPTB duped me? Am I unknowingly promoting their agenda?

Post of the Year Award.



njb

Seriously, we can't throw out the baby w the bath water, but
we do need some equilibrium in our thinking.

Too many are on full tilt here.

[Jason]

So I am praying for the collapse of the government

I agree, to a certain point. The Lord says the wicked will destroy the wicked. I am just asking everyone to take a look at what they are saying on this forum and make sure they are not part of the wicked who are destroying the wicked. It needs to be done in a Christ-like manner, not Satan's way.

LOL....via volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, hailstones, etc......or was that just a quick bullet to the head to arrange the judgment meeting? Or is this crap with Brian David Mitchell going about it in a Christ-like manner? Or should we be braiding the whips?

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=13477450

[Original_Intent]

You walk into your house and see one of your family members has been raped and murdered. What do you do?
You start to call the police, but wait.... there is no police the conspiracy theorists dismantled them because power corrupts and they were afraid it would take away their rights of freedom. In fact there is no FBI, CIA, Senators, Legislators, DMV etc.
Your neighbor comes over and he says, I saw the car and the suspect leave your house. He gives you a description of the car. The car had no license plate because the DMV was also dismantled (unfair taxation). You are frustrated because you do not recognized the description of the car or person, neither does your neighbor.
Even if the police were still in existence, the blood or semen evidence would do no good. The theorists dismantled all sources of private information gathering on the premises of right to privacy. Those information sites the federal and state governments were constructing that would have contained pertinent info to help determine who your family members rapist and killer was are now dismantled and burned down.
Actually all the DNA labs, fingerprint labs, and any facility where any type of personal information was stored is now burned to the ground.
So you sit and ponder, what am I going to do? Who do I turn to for help? What if this person is a neighbor? What if they are going to do this to someone else? Does this person know where my children go to school? Does he know where I work, go to church. What if it is a personal matter with him and he still intends to harm my family? I do not even know who he is. I have not one to turn to for help. No one could help even if they tried. How would we be able to use any evidence against him? We do not even have a court system anymore. The courts were deemed to be corrupt establishments where men vie to get power and gain. Even if they did exist, they could not keep records of there cases anyway. In fact the jails can not keep a record anymore either. In fact, the jail facilities were deemed to be possible FEMA camps and were burned to the ground also. Wow, things are so messed up.

I post this to establish a point. The point is all of those entities and resources that some on our site seem to loathe, do serve good purposes. Law and order, justice for the victims, protection from the wicked are the purposes of these things. So I ask you, could you tone it down a little? If we took your venting seriously and established a society using your conspiracy theories as our guide, we would cease to be a free people in a matter of days. You would destroy every source of protection we have, every source of peace. Who are the gadiantons? Could you be playing into their hands? Ask yourself, what am I promoting with my ranting and raving? Who's side am I really on. Have TPTB duped me? Am I unknowingly promoting their agenda?

Post of the Year Award.



njb

Seriously, we can't throw out the baby w the bath water, but
we do need some equilibrium in our thinking.

Too many are on full tilt here.

I think the problem is that government never relinquish'w power willingly.
So far despite everyone's best efforts, government power has never actually been decreased in probably 100 years. At best its advance has been slowed or possible momentarily halted. So it requires "going at it full tilt" to have any hope at all of shrinking government.

"The tree of liberty must, from time to time, be watered witht he blood of patriots and tyrants." That kind of talk gets you labelled a terrorist these days, but the true principle embodied by the statement as the government will always take whatever power the people will allow it to. There has to come a point where people say "enough". and mean it, even if it costs them their lives. Because history proves that anything less only slows growth, not reverses it.

I'm not saying it has to come to actual bloodshed, but it has to get to the point that people are that serious about it. Going to a Tea Party rally is great progress over where we were a couple of years ago, but it is not nearly enough.

And this idea that "yeah it is costing us some freedom but it really is serving a good purpose" - is very antithetical to getting people to reach a point where they put there foot down. In fact, it almost guarantees that this point will never be reached as they will always be provided with "reasonable excuses" why their freedom has to be sacrificed for their own good.

I think the OP is well intentioned. And like I said, I do not want anarchy and I don't think anyone here truly does. Constitutional limits - and understanding their original intent and also the underlying principles for those limitations - are, I feel, the crux of the matter.

[Rensai]

You walk into your house and see one of your family members has been raped and murdered. What do you do?
You start to call the police, but wait.... there is no police the conspiracy theorists dismantled them because power corrupts and they were afraid it would take away their rights of freedom. In fact there is no FBI, CIA, Senators, Legislators, DMV etc.
Your neighbor comes over and he says, I saw the car and the suspect leave your house. He gives you a description of the car. The car had no license plate because the DMV was also dismantled (unfair taxation). You are frustrated because you do not recognized the description of the car or person, neither does your neighbor.
Even if the police were still in existence, the blood or semen evidence would do no good. The theorists dismantled all sources of private information gathering on the premises of right to privacy. Those information sites the federal and state governments were constructing that would have contained pertinent info to help determine who your family members rapist and killer was are now dismantled and burned down.
Actually all the DNA labs, fingerprint labs, and any facility where any type of personal information was stored is now burned to the ground.
So you sit and ponder, what am I going to do? Who do I turn to for help? What if this person is a neighbor? What if they are going to do this to someone else? Does this person know where my children go to school? Does he know where I work, go to church. What if it is a personal matter with him and he still intends to harm my family? I do not even know who he is. I have not one to turn to for help. No one could help even if they tried. How would we be able to use any evidence against him? We do not even have a court system anymore. The courts were deemed to be corrupt establishments where men vie to get power and gain. Even if they did exist, they could not keep records of there cases anyway. In fact the jails can not keep a record anymore either. In fact, the jail facilities were deemed to be possible FEMA camps and were burned to the ground also. Wow, things are so messed up.

I post this to establish a point. The point is all of those entities and resources that some on our site seem to loathe, do serve good purposes. Law and order, justice for the victims, protection from the wicked are the purposes of these things. So I ask you, could you tone it down a little? If we took your venting seriously and established a society using your conspiracy theories as our guide, we would cease to be a free people in a matter of days. You would destroy every source of protection we have, every source of peace. Who are the gadiantons? Could you be playing into their hands? Ask yourself, what am I promoting with my ranting and raving? Who's side am I really on. Have TPTB duped me? Am I unknowingly promoting their agenda?

Nice straw man. I have never seen anyone on this forum advocate the complete anarchy you have vaguely attributed to the forum in your post. You say these government intrusions into privacy serve good purposes and promote law and order, but can't you see the contradiction? How can something that is unlawful itself, such as the TSA gropings, serve law and order by violating it? Sure, they can point to some examples where these types of measures serve "law and order" for a person here and there, but I'll bet the Nazi's could find some examples where their police state prevented some crimes too. So what, where do we stop? Does that justify trampling the law? Where do we stop this usurpation in the name of law and order? Perhaps we should just all sign up for Satan's plan in that case, after all, just give up your liberty and he would ensure you keep your second estate. Why didn't we just go with that plan if it is ok to strip a persons liberty away in the name of "security", "law and order", or "the greater good"? If the government won't respect the rule of law for itself, why would you entrust them to enforce it on your community?

The bottom line is this. If you don't have the right to rob or grope me, you can't give the government permission to do it either. Anyone who advocates violating another persons rights and liberty is serving Satan's plan whether they know it or not. Because this happens so frequently today, that is what the backlash is about. No one wants anarchy, just our god given rights.

[InfoWarrior82]

You walk into your house and see one of your family members has been raped and murdered. What do you do?
You start to call the police, but wait.... there is no police the conspiracy theorists dismantled them because power corrupts and they were afraid it would take away their rights of freedom. In fact there is no FBI, CIA, Senators, Legislators, DMV etc.
Your neighbor comes over and he says, I saw the car and the suspect leave your house. He gives you a description of the car. The car had no license plate because the DMV was also dismantled (unfair taxation). You are frustrated because you do not recognized the description of the car or person, neither does your neighbor.
Even if the police were still in existence, the blood or semen evidence would do no good. The theorists dismantled all sources of private information gathering on the premises of right to privacy. Those information sites the federal and state governments were constructing that would have contained pertinent info to help determine who your family members rapist and killer was are now dismantled and burned down.
Actually all the DNA labs, fingerprint labs, and any facility where any type of personal information was stored is now burned to the ground.
So you sit and ponder, what am I going to do? Who do I turn to for help? What if this person is a neighbor? What if they are going to do this to someone else? Does this person know where my children go to school? Does he know where I work, go to church. What if it is a personal matter with him and he still intends to harm my family? I do not even know who he is. I have not one to turn to for help. No one could help even if they tried. How would we be able to use any evidence against him? We do not even have a court system anymore. The courts were deemed to be corrupt establishments where men vie to get power and gain. Even if they did exist, they could not keep records of there cases anyway. In fact the jails can not keep a record anymore either. In fact, the jail facilities were deemed to be possible FEMA camps and were burned to the ground also. Wow, things are so messed up.

I post this to establish a point. The point is all of those entities and resources that some on our site seem to loathe, do serve good purposes. Law and order, justice for the victims, protection from the wicked are the purposes of these things. So I ask you, could you tone it down a little? If we took your venting seriously and established a society using your conspiracy theories as our guide, we would cease to be a free people in a matter of days. You would destroy every source of protection we have, every source of peace. Who are the gadiantons? Could you be playing into their hands? Ask yourself, what am I promoting with my ranting and raving? Who's side am I really on. Have TPTB duped me? Am I unknowingly promoting their agenda?

Nice straw man. I have never seen anyone on this forum advocate the complete anarchy you have vaguely attributed to the forum in your post. You say these government intrusions into privacy serve good purposes and promote law and order, but can't you see the contradiction? How can something that is unlawful itself, such as the TSA gropings, serve law and order by violating it? Sure, they can point to some examples where these types of measures serve "law and order" for a person here and there, but I'll bet the Nazi's could find some examples where their police state prevented some crimes too. So what, where do we stop? Does that justify trampling the law? Where do we stop this usurpation in the name of law and order? Perhaps we should just all sign up for Satan's plan in that case, after all, just give up your liberty and he would ensure you keep your second estate. Why didn't we just go with that plan if it is ok to strip a persons liberty away in the name of "security", "law and order", or "the greater good"? If the government won't respect the rule of law for itself, why would you entrust them to enforce it on your community?

The bottom line is this. If you don't have the right to rob or grope me, you can't give the government permission to do it either. Anyone who advocates violating another persons rights and liberty is serving Satan's plan whether they know it or not. Because this happens so frequently today, that is what the backlash is about. No one wants anarchy, just our god given rights.

Rebuttal of the year award!


Infowarrior82

[Jason]

You walk into your house and see one of your family members has been raped and murdered. What do you do?
You start to call the police, but wait.... there is no police the conspiracy theorists dismantled them because power corrupts and they were afraid it would take away their rights of freedom. In fact there is no FBI, CIA, Senators, Legislators, DMV etc.
Your neighbor comes over and he says, I saw the car and the suspect leave your house. He gives you a description of the car. The car had no license plate because the DMV was also dismantled (unfair taxation). You are frustrated because you do not recognized the description of the car or person, neither does your neighbor.
Even if the police were still in existence, the blood or semen evidence would do no good. The theorists dismantled all sources of private information gathering on the premises of right to privacy. Those information sites the federal and state governments were constructing that would have contained pertinent info to help determine who your family members rapist and killer was are now dismantled and burned down.
Actually all the DNA labs, fingerprint labs, and any facility where any type of personal information was stored is now burned to the ground.
So you sit and ponder, what am I going to do? Who do I turn to for help? What if this person is a neighbor? What if they are going to do this to someone else? Does this person know where my children go to school? Does he know where I work, go to church. What if it is a personal matter with him and he still intends to harm my family? I do not even know who he is. I have not one to turn to for help. No one could help even if they tried. How would we be able to use any evidence against him? We do not even have a court system anymore. The courts were deemed to be corrupt establishments where men vie to get power and gain. Even if they did exist, they could not keep records of there cases anyway. In fact the jails can not keep a record anymore either. In fact, the jail facilities were deemed to be possible FEMA camps and were burned to the ground also. Wow, things are so messed up.

I post this to establish a point. The point is all of those entities and resources that some on our site seem to loathe, do serve good purposes. Law and order, justice for the victims, protection from the wicked are the purposes of these things. So I ask you, could you tone it down a little? If we took your venting seriously and established a society using your conspiracy theories as our guide, we would cease to be a free people in a matter of days. You would destroy every source of protection we have, every source of peace. Who are the gadiantons? Could you be playing into their hands? Ask yourself, what am I promoting with my ranting and raving? Who's side am I really on. Have TPTB duped me? Am I unknowingly promoting their agenda?

Nice straw man. I have never seen anyone on this forum advocate the complete anarchy you have vaguely attributed to the forum in your post. You say these government intrusions into privacy serve good purposes and promote law and order, but can't you see the contradiction? How can something that is unlawful itself, such as the TSA gropings, serve law and order by violating it? Sure, they can point to some examples where these types of measures serve "law and order" for a person here and there, but I'll bet the Nazi's could find some examples where their police state prevented some crimes too. So what, where do we stop? Does that justify trampling the law? Where do we stop this usurpation in the name of law and order? Perhaps we should just all sign up for Satan's plan in that case, after all, just give up your liberty and he would ensure you keep your second estate. Why didn't we just go with that plan if it is ok to strip a persons liberty away in the name of "security", "law and order", or "the greater good"? If the government won't respect the rule of law for itself, why would you entrust them to enforce it on your community?

The bottom line is this. If you don't have the right to rob or grope me, you can't give the government permission to do it either. Anyone who advocates violating another persons rights and liberty is serving Satan's plan whether they know it or not. Because this happens so frequently today, that is what the backlash is about. No one wants anarchy, just our god given rights.

Rebuttal of the year award!


Infowarrior82

Amen!

[NoGreaterLove]

Renai, Mummy OI
You guys bring up valid points. I in no way agree with all that is happening. Let me clarify that. I do not agree with the way the Government is taking away our rights, nor do I agree with anyone placing all of the government into one basket and burning it. That is God's job and he will use the wicked to destroy the wicked. Not the saints to do it. So if you are trying to destroy the government by your vicious words against them, in my opinion, you are just as guilty as they are.

[NoGreaterLove]

I would ask you this question.

What is the oil the wise virgins had in their lamps. Do you believe it was hatred towards anyone, malice, discontent, breaking the laws of the land etc? If you believe this, you might be waking up after your slumber while the Bridegroom tarries and find you have none.

[Original_Intent]

Renai, Mummy OI
You guys bring up valid points. I in no way agree with all that is happening. Let me clarify that. I do not agree with the way the Government is taking away our rights, nor do I agree with anyone placing all of the government into one basket and burning it. That is God's job and he will use the wicked to destroy the wicked. Not the saints to do it. So if you are trying to destroy the government by your vicious words against them, in my opinion, you are just as guilty as they are.

Read Ezra Taft Benson's "An Enemy Hath Done This", and then tell me that he is as guilty as the wicked for speaking out against usurpation of power.

To my way of thinking, those that DO NOT speak out against it are (almost) as guilty as those advocating for it. This is precisely the "condemnation" that the church is under for not reading and applying the Book of Mormon! And we ALL are going to pay for that failure.

[Jason]

To my way of thinking, those that DO NOT speak out against it are (almost) as guilty as those advocating for it. This is precisely the "condemnation" that the church is under for not reading and applying the Book of Mormon! And we ALL are going to pay for that failure.

Some think they have a get out of jail free card. Hide in the cavity of the rock and hope the storm blows past them.....and if commanded....more power to them!

[NamasteMama]

A Treatise on Liberty

By Pastor Butch Paugh

July 2008



In this brief, to the point and I hope, well written treatise, I sincerely hope and pray that we can reach a multitude of people. Up front I must tell the reader that this is a biblically based and solidly Christian writing. I do not apologize for this. I just feel that it is important to let the reader know in advance and ask that you will take the time to read this article in its entirety. If the reader will do this, I am convinced that it will become evident that the principles and truths brought forth are simply undeniable.

Ever since mankind first united to form a society, whether it be a community, state or nation, there must of necessity be a set of rules (laws) written and established to set the standard and basis by which such a civilization can exist and remain united and civilized. Without a set foundation of laws by which all in the society are expected to live by, there is no “civil”-ization, only disorder and chaos! Ideally, a society needs only a minimum of laws by which to govern itself because the people are of themselves individually “self”-governed. Laws are not made or needed to control a self governing individual. They are only needed for those who will not control their evil desires and passions. (I Tim. 1:9)

Let’s establish two vitally important points now. First, if mankind is to live and work in conjunction with others, then laws and civil authority to enforce such laws as the community (society) desires needs to exist. Secondly, all law systems are based and founded on a “commonly” held and accepted “belief”, i.e. religious philosophy. The simple fact is, all mankind as an individual or a society are religious. The philosophy by which they guide and govern their lives is religious! All beliefs (philosophies) are influenced by and built on some type of religious experience or teaching. There is no way around this fact! When a person makes the statement that he does not believe in an external, Supreme Being (God), he then becomes his own supreme being or in other words, his own “god”. This is in fact a religion as ruled by the U.S. Supreme Court called humanism! All men are by nature a religious creature. (Rom. 1:21-25) Now that these two vital issues are settled, let’s move on.

It would be a safe statement to make, I believe, that most any person or nation of people that would ask, “Do you want to be free? Do you desire liberty?” The answer would be a resounding yes! At least as far as any individual or nation can understand what freedom or liberty is to be. It is a sad fact that the vast majority of people today, including and especially in America, do not know the meaning of freedom and liberty. The true essence of freedom and liberty is simply not understood by the masses of people today. With freedom and liberty comes personal responsibility in all areas of life. Moral, mental and financial! One cannot have true freedom as long as one “depends” on an outside source to supply any of these basic needs. One is only as free as one is dependent from an outside laws and assistance. Yes, it is an inescapable fact that, in order to have an orderly society, laws and governance is a necessity. But people must be constantly and diligently on guard against the inevitable encroachment of civil authority on their liberties and equally diligent not to allow themselves to be enticed into contracts with the established civil power to provide their needs. This “scheme” of greedy men in civil office is the most deceiving of all devices used to enslave a free people.

“Liberty”, definition according to the Webster’s 1828 dictionary is; 1. Freedom from restraint, in a general sense, and applicable to the body, or the will of mind. The body is at “liberty” when not confined; the will or mind at “liberty” when not checked or controlled. A man enjoys “liberty”, when no physical force operates to restrain his actions or volitions. 2. “National liberty”, consists in the power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, except from the control of others, and from positive laws and the institutions of social life. This liberty is “abridged and restrained, as is necessary and expedient for the safety and interest of the society, state or nation. (A restraint of natural liberty, not necessary or expedient for the public, is tyranny or oppression.” Civil liberty is an exemption from the arbitrary will of others, which exemption is secured by established laws, which restrain every man from injuring or controlling another. “Hence the restraints of law are essential to civil liberty”.

“Freedom”, definition according to the same source. “A state of exemption from the power or control of another; liberty; exemption from slavery, servitude or confinement.

In light of the definitions just quoted it would certainly be safe to say that the type of belief system that forms the laws that govern society is directly linked to the liberty or lack thereof of the society it governs.

Let us refer back to a previous statement made. The laws established by the will of the governed, as is the case for a free people, must be ordained to only govern the wicked! (I Tim. 1:19) Any law that goes beyond that principle will start a tendency toward oppression and tyranny. The obvious outcome then, for a society who uses their freedoms to practice immorality (wickedness) is more oppressive laws and tyranny. Morality and virtue (righteous self-government) is the very foundation of liberty. In direct proportion to the moral deterioration of society is the amount of liberty enjoyed. John Adams said, “Our constitution (law system) was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” When a people cease to be moral, they cease to be free.

Our once great and once free nation was founded on the moral principles written in the Holy Scriptures of the Sovereign Creator of mankind. Despite the current teachings and popular opinions of society in America today this fact is absolutely irrefutable by our founding fathers statements and documents. In the Declaration of Independence it is written, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by the Creator with certain unalienable Rights . . ” George Washington said, “It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.” To make the point even clearer to those who would still like to argue about the truth that this nation was founded on Biblical principles is the statement made by Patrick Henry, “It cannot be emphasized too often or too strongly that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ.” (II Cor. 3:17)

Our society has become morally decadent and ignorant (Hosea 4:6). The curse on an immoral people is insanity and more evil. (Deut. 28:28, Jer. 11:17) As it is written in the history of Israel in the Old Testament so it is today. A righteous God will only be merciful to a stiff-necked, perverted and disobedient people for so long, and then His judgment falls. (Ps. 106:40) He will give them wicked leading (government) to rule over them. (Ps. 106:41) When a society is governed by wicked men even the righteous will suffer. (Is. 59:15) But to obey an unrighteous government is idolatry. (Ex. 20:1-4, Acts 5:29)

The only hope for America, if the people truly want to be blessed with genuine liberty again, is to repent and return to the foundation of truth that made them free! (John 8:32-John 14:6)

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: For this is the whole duty of man.” (Ecc. 12:13)

The more wicked the people the more laws are needed.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

So I ask you, could you tone it down a little? If we took your venting seriously and established a society using your conspiracy theories as our guide, we would cease to be a free people in a matter of days. You would destroy every source of protection we have, every source of peace.

That really is a straw man argument.

We could put serial numbers on everyone's forehead with GPS tracking and cameras and microphones everywhere and solve every crime. And we could torture confessions out of people and find out where the kidnapping victims are. And we could preempt any evil action...

We are becoming so polarized that absolute moral principle is lost and forgotten.

There is a way to have a free society that's peaceful without all of those things you think are so nice. Remember that Satan's proposal was not anarchy, but tyranny. He is a major control freak. He would have (and is trying to) use those very means to assure his usurped place as ruler in this world.

Joseph Smith's presidential platform included emptying the prisons. Of course violent offenders would be put to death. Paradoxically to some, I believe that would go a long way to creating a peaceful society. So would returning the duty and responsibility to the sovereign to look out for and care for one another. What we have is a partisan criminal justice system with cops on one side and criminals on the other and it is all too often exceedingly difficult to tell which side is which. One side is exempt from the law and evidently has super-rights above and beyond yours and mine. The other submits to no moral authority and hence is not bound by any law but force and compulsion (only love can conquer such as these).

Why not require all citizens at birth to be entered into a dna database. If we aren't doing anything wrong why object? Then with our assigned number all dna evidence would be 100% effective? I know why, it's the right to be secure in your person and property. It is an inherent God granted right not to be surrendered lightly. And there are others as well and we had better, as Latter-Day Saints come to understand them if we propose to govern ourselves let alone establish a government that will fill the whole world.

[buffalo_girl]

You walk into your house and see one of your family members has been raped and murdered. What do you do?

Send Antoine Dodson & the folks in the Lincoln Projects:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHpluwP3 ... re=related