Thank you!!! You're the man momma (I mean woman)!loquaciousmomma wrote:I am on Col.'s side this time. It is very possible to be taken advantage of by an employer, especially in a depressed economy. They know that there are 100 others willing to take your job if you choose to leave, and that you are going to have difficulty replacing the job anyway, so the unscrupulous ones will get every ounce of blood that they can out of you.
My husband is being taken to the cleaners by his current boss. The 60+ hours he is working is all on salary, meaning his pay doesn't change one cent. All the overtime is doing is limiting the time he can spend working part time jobs to make up for the inadequate pay. They have gradually increased the hours he has to work over the past 6 months and forced him to let go of his employees because he is taking their hours.
I know that some will say that it is possible that the business is hurting and has to save money, so it is understandable to ask this of him, but this is a for-profit human service agency that does business with the government. As far as I know, business hasn't changed for them.
The bottom line, is that in times like these, it is very possible for businesses to 'oppress the hireling in his wages'. In fact, I would say it is happening all over as we speak.
I am not for government intervention, but rather heavenly intervention. Surely the Lord will come to the aid of those who are being oppressed in this distressed market, or perhaps make the burden light. It is a burden to work for peanuts after all.
Please name me an industry the US government does not manipulate or control....gclayjr wrote:Col, I hope I'm not pilng on, but you seem to have a misunderstanding of basic Economics. Were are not slaves. We don't have to work for anybody we don't want to. Most people will work fo the person that gives them the best job for the best price. If an employer doesn't do that, they don't get the best employees. If employees demand more money than their value, you get unemployment.
I work in manufacturing. there are 3 major reason's why our manufacturing jobs are leaving this country;
1) Regulations and litigation (Labor and environmental)
2) High Corporate taxes
3) High wages
Why do the states that have laws requiring high levels of pay have the highest unemployment?
In a free country, an employer has a very limited capability abuse the hirling, because the free man can choose to leave. It is in socialist utopias like Cuba and North Korea where the hirling has no choices and can easily be abused by the employer... who is ... oh yea... the government
Regards,
George Clay
So ALL alarm salespeople are scum? You've got quite the broad brush, might want to trim it back a bitMummy wrote: ...speaking of tough love....I know quite a few people in the home security sales business ranging from 6 figure sales reps to east coast management.....and knowing their sales strategies and tactics.....that's not something I would be bragging about and throwing in the face of someone else. Personally I'd rather dig ditches.....
Amen. My brother-in-law (and soon to be ex-brother-in-law) lost his $100K job last year and has been travelling back and forth from Utah to Indiana/Tennessee the last year doing door to door home security system sales. He made $30k in 3 months and apparently, these companies recruit college kids to do the door to door sales as summer jobs, but then I got thinking... how are these college-age kids making $30k in 3 months? Something didn't sit right. I don't know what kind of tactics are involved or how they're making money like that ($10,000 per month), but something isn't right - if you can make that kind of money selling home security systems, why even go to college? I think I'll just stick with my two dogs as my home security system... can't beat 'em.Mummy wrote:...speaking of tough love....I know quite a few people in the home security sales business ranging from 6 figure sales reps to east coast management.....and knowing their sales strategies and tactics.....that's not something I would be bragging about and throwing in the face of someone else. Personally I'd rather dig ditches.....
It is your question!shadow wrote:So ALL alarm salespeople are scum? You've got quite the broad brush, might want to trim it back a bitMummy wrote: ...speaking of tough love....I know quite a few people in the home security sales business ranging from 6 figure sales reps to east coast management.....and knowing their sales strategies and tactics.....that's not something I would be bragging about and throwing in the face of someone else. Personally I'd rather dig ditches.....
$30k is for the nubes that haven't mastered the tactics yet. Know of several individuals making over six figures in same time period.Col. Flagg wrote:Amen. My brother-in-law (and soon to be ex-brother-in-law) lost his $100K job last year and has been travelling back and forth from Utah to Indiana/Tennessee the last year doing door to door home security system sales. He made $30k in 3 months and apparently, these companies recruit college kids to do the door to door sales as summer jobs, but then I got thinking... how are these college-age kids making $30k in 3 months? Something didn't sit right. I don't know what kind of tactics are involved or how they're making money like that ($10,000 per month), but something isn't right - if you can make that kind of money selling home security systems, why even go to college? I think I'll just stick with my two dogs as my home security system... can't beat 'em.Mummy wrote:...speaking of tough love....I know quite a few people in the home security sales business ranging from 6 figure sales reps to east coast management.....and knowing their sales strategies and tactics.....that's not something I would be bragging about and throwing in the face of someone else. Personally I'd rather dig ditches.....
har. yeah, i love that oneOriginal_Intent wrote:
Maybe we need to experience the bitter so that we may cherish the sweet?
shadow wrote: And church leadership know people are struggling, that's why they ask those who can to increase their offerings.
"Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of Heaven"
natasha wrote:I will never understand people who complain about the wages in a State and choose to stick around and receive those wages.
I emphatically agree. For instance it cared for the Marriots by naming its business and ethics centre after him. Col- why don't you open a DVD hire business for travelling businessmen? you could stand outside hotels and rent them DVDs and Laptop computersnatasha wrote:Also..would you please stop being critical of the Church and the Brethren. The Church has always gone above and beyond in caring for people.
i do agree with you that a plan to break free can be in place more times than it is, sadly for too many that is not practical. in any regard it just shifts the deckchairs on the titanic and structurally does nothingnatasha wrote:but at some point, if you don't like your current situation, then change it.
I'd say most thats a kneejerk reaction too often. a "yeah in july we do tithing, august sacrament attendance", plus also misses the bigger picture of why a community is depressed. granted it is very significant, but what, tithing, fast offering, a hundred meetings, temple attendance, fasting, praying, home teaching, taking kids to seminary at 6am and so on, they werent enough? god wants us to give more money we dont have and then maybe he'll somehow bless us?natasha wrote: I believe firmly that local leaders DO have a grip on the situation otherwise they wouldn't ask us to increase our offerings if we can!
even though its the same as my mortgage payment or holidays and life would be 100 times easier for us, we as a family dont begrudge paying tithing. but we see it as an obligation, it goes to the church which cant operate without funding. it makes me less $$$$ focussed which may be the blessing we are given.natasha wrote:Everything we have, including our wages whether meager or large, belong to the Lord anyway.
AussieOi wrote:shadow wrote: And church leadership know people are struggling, that's why they ask those who can to increase their offerings
"Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of Heaven"
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!! Give more. The Lord neeeeeeds your money
If you are poor it is because you didn't give enough. You don't have enough faith
Ummm, and what about the promise of Malachi? Where does that fit in this?
Couldn't be a structural and behavioural issue of employers could it?
You're on a roll! Too bad you can't comprehend what I posted. Maybe read each word a bit slower I was responding to the "why aren't the church officials doing something about it" I am certainly not supporting the status quo, and if you read my other posts in this thread that should be apparent.AussieOi wrote:har. yeah, i love that oneOriginal_Intent wrote:
Maybe we need to experience the bitter so that we may cherish the sweet?
im sure thats exactly what Caligula said, and Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin. Im sure theres a million slave factory operators in India saying the same thing to themselves and their underlings right now too
No, how about we have the sweet to recognise who bad the bitter is so that we won't ever want that?
i really hate that attitude, linking structural deficiencies to lessons in life.
its usually a top down kinda thing too I note. as in "I'll learn that lesson by observing you experience it, while my foot rests firmly on your throat"
don't fret bro'Original_Intent wrote:[
I was responding to the "why aren't the church officials doing something about it" I am certainly not supporting the status quo, and if you read my other posts in this thread that should be apparent.
georgegclayjr wrote:Aussi Oi,
You are quick to criticize the church about that which you don't know. I am the financial Clerk in our ward. I have been so for more than 10 years. Yes, we follow the LORD's counsel, and expect those who are going through hard times to pay their tithing. However, we also provide needed financial help to those same people even as they are paying their tithing.
I have received a tremendous testimony that the Church's welfare plan Works. Over the past 10 years, I have seen many people begin to receive assistance. I have seen them get their lives back together and and return to self sufficiency. We have never had the systemic problems that the rest of society has of people who are forever living off from the labor of others.
We do have a few people who do not have the ability to ever be completely be free from assistance. They still provide for themselves as much as possible, and we occasionally help them with a doctor, or utility bill when life overcomes them as they try to live providently. They still earn and deserve the rights and privileges of those who provide for themselves. Also, their finacial requirements of these good people do not drain the fast offering funds significantly, because their needs are modest, and because they do truly try to provide for themselves.
On another note, I have worked with a number of Bishops. Unlike the government who tries to regulate every decision, a Bishop is given a lot of leeway to seek out the Lord's counsel and following the true principals of the Church's Welfare plan make decisions he belives to be best for that particualr family. I know there are a few bad Bishops out there, and while I've heard a lot of people caterwalling, I have never met a bad one. They truly have a "mantle" from the Lord to be the "Father" of a Ward, and we should be grateful to the Lord for establishing such a system, and sending down such people to administer it as we move forward in these very difficult times
Regards,
Geroge Clay
I was forced to accept the reality of this when arguing with someone about a program (can't remember which, there are so many). I realized that I was using the library system... something easily remedied if I want to spend several hundred dollars a year on books. The point is that I came to the reality that I participate in the dole in more ways than I realized. It's extremely difficult to get around it. Extremely.SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Look to the Declaration of Independence, "all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
Look to history:
http://www.wvculture.org/history/minewars.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeur_d%27 ... 27_dispute
What to do when you travel out West without any money, expenses paid for by the mine, instantly in debt, wages aren't enough to pay for your NEEDS at the company store, work all you can, wages drop and debt grows, you try to organize any way out with others stuck in the trap and are met with armed resistance, murder, reprisals of all kinds legal and illegal.
But of course you're anti-union and you stand on your principles (from your knees).
This happened, this happens.
I stood on my knees to oppose unionization at a former job and won, despite many illegal and unfair labor practices committed by the corporation, despite unfair and illegal violations of immigration laws, safety laws etc... Everyone who worked there literally had the scars to show for it, we even had a name for them. After the union failed, our incentive program was immediately cut and things went downhill quick. I supported collective bargaining after the union failed (thanks in part to my vote). We met with company officials and they laughed at us. We gave them an ultimatum, a very reasonable ultimatum that didn't even address the incentive program, safety violations, illegal hiring practices, or most peoples wages (the only wages addressed were those of people that weren't even there, we stuck our necks out for them without asking for anything for ourselves). They laughed at us and we shut them down. I came back the next working day and the plants were idle. I prepared to leave and my former boss (I had been promoted) told me they fired everyone but me (and that only because I was in transit from my former job). I told him that it likely wouldn't be worth staying and as soon as I could find something else I too would leave.
I applied for every diesel mechanic job anywhere around that region and truck driving as well and nobody would pay me anywhere near what I was worth (clean driving record, all kinds of training and certifications, lot's of raises and promotions, etc...) When I landed that job I never stopped applying elsewhere, for years I hit every possible interview, had a few low ball offers, etc.. but couldn't find anyone that didn't want to take advantage of me. In the end I quit without finding a new job (a deal I had made with the Lord that took a truckload of faith).
I agree with the Declaration of Independence, while sufferable, most people will suffer. Look at our government. We don't overthrow it and it is oppressive and we have discovered a plan to reduce us under absolute despotism, etc... We suffer on with a horrible government that few approve of because we can, because it's sufferable, but that doesn't make it right.
What is the answer to it? One person at a time refusing to participate and instead taking part in something better. And that is exactly how it will happen, it's prophesy. Of course it will have to be facilitated by calamitous events because we won't otherwise do it. But Zion will arise, small at first and isolated in pockets, and as the old ways fail all around and the new but oldest way succeeds it will grow and people will come to it until it fills the whole world.
Women have to work because women went to work and bid up the price of everything. Now the couple that want momma at home have to live as frugal paupers in order to achieve it (unless providence smiles down on them in abundance).
Let's face it, the world does not share our values and their values are monetized in our current economic system. Thus we have to make sacrifices in order to maintain both our standards and our personal finances. For some that means working on Sunday, for others it means the mother and wife working, for others it means the kids go to public schools, it means business trips away from home, it means the vast majority of our awake life away from home, none of which are ideal or comply with our moral and ethical base. We sell out to a degree to succeed. But what if the world shut down on Sunday entirely? What if women didn't work? What if family was an integral part of work, what if schooling was good and local in home school groups or church schools? Is such a reality possible? Have we accepted others morals as the standard that rules our lives in subordination of our values? I think so.
