We The People Must Reclaim Our Constitution

[Jason]

An above post suggest the Spirit will guide us in our decisions without any homework on our part. Run that by Oliver Cowdery sometime.

When I note an Area 70 organizing firesides for Senator Reid to speak, when I find leaders and other "pillars" in our ward and stake supporting Senator McCain and refusing to believe what they could see and hear on Youtube of Mitt Romney demonstrating his disdain for constitutional principles and a major tenet of the LDS faith, I guess we are generally in worse shape than I assumed.

....is the above a symptom of knowledge or spirit???? That appears to be the question of the day.

[Rosabella]

An above post suggest the Spirit will guide us in our decisions without any homework on our part. Run that by Oliver Cowdery sometime.

When I note an Area 70 organizing firesides for Senator Reid to speak, when I find leaders and other "pillars" in our ward and stake supporting Senator McCain and refusing to believe what they could see and hear on Youtube of Mitt Romney demonstrating his disdain for constitutional principles and a major tenet of the LDS faith, I guess we are generally in worse shape than I assumed.

The gift of discernment should not be mocked. Nor does everyone have it in the Church. It is either a gift given or one we have to work for to have. If everyone had it in the Church there would be no issues. It is one of the greatest gifts. I do not believe that we should not have knowledge too, I just wanted to point out that Spiritual Gifts that are of God like the Gift of Discernment can even give the uneducated the right knowledge. Quite often the Over-Educated are the ones that have too much pride to use the Gift of Discernment. They depend solely on their own knowledge but not the Lord's promptings. It is a Gift that we are going to need more and more as evil appears more and more good.

There are plenty of LDS that have lots of knowledge of lots of things but are not living worthy of having the Gift of Discernment and in many cases they do not seek it because they rely on their own understandings instead of always seeking God's will.

[Rosabella]

James E. Talmage

Oh, that we all had such power of discernment. That is a gift of the Spirit, to which we are entitled and we will have it as we live for it. With that gift we shall be free, to a great extent, from the deception that otherwise might lead us astray.
As the Lord gives revelations, so does Satan, each in his way. As the Lord has revelators upon the earth, so has Satan, and he is operating upon those men by his power, and they are receiving revelations, manifestations, that are just as truly of the devil as was his manifestation to Moses, to which I have referred.
We need the power of discernment. We need the inspiration of the Lord, that we may know the spirits with whom we have to deal, and recognize those who are speaking and acting under the influence of heaven, and those who are the emissaries of hell. (Conference Report, April 1931, p.28)

[ndjili]

just going to throw this out there...wasnt it knowledge that Satan offered to Adam and Eve in the garden...knowledge that he offered to Cain and every other who has entered into combinations since Cain.

God offers wisdom.

We're not saying to not learn the constitution but without God it means nothing and really the only real reason that the constitution fails is wickedness..wickedness has led us away from the wisdom the people once knew and to the ingorant "knowledge" that man thinks they have. We think we're so scientific that people if they know what is in the constitution, think it's outdated..cause we're wicked and led away into wickedness and slavery by Satan. I have sisters who are so into the conspiracy theories that they attend conference after conference...buy into the New Age. think aliens are the real threat..are atheist now and think the New Age will save us. Yup I think reading the constitution will save them...except they think socialism is good. I think reading the Book of Mormon and getting back to God will help us truly know and understand the Constitution.

[Rosabella]

Bruce R McConkie

There is no perfect operation of the power of discernment without revelation. Thereby even "the thoughts and intents of the heart" are made known. (D. & C. 33:1; Heb. 4:12.) Where the Saints are concerned -- since they have received the right to the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost -- the Lord expects them to discern, not only between the righteous and the wicked, but between false and true philosophies, educational theories, sciences, political concepts, and social schemes. Unfortunately, in many instances, even good men hearken to "the tradition of their fathers" (D. & C. 93:39) and rely on the learning of the world rather than the revelations of the Lord, so that they do not enjoy the full play of the spirit of discernment. (Mormon Doctrine, p.197)

Ezra Taft Benson
I have noted within the Church a difference in discernment, insight, conviction, and spirit between those who know and love the Book of Mormon and those who do not. That book is a great sifter. ("Jesus Christ--Gifts and Expectations," Ensign, Dec. 1988, 4)

The Gifts from God trump the knowledge of man. We need to receive the knowledge from God via always having the Gift of Discernment and Revelation when learning anything.

[lundbaek]

It helps for the Spirit to have something to work with, even if it includes a mixture of truth, 1/2 truth, error, and lies. I know of otherwise good members, including a stake president, who have stated they ignore current events because learning of them detracts from their spirituality. A few active members have told me or other friends of mine that they rely pretty much only on prayer in deciding whom or what to vote for.

[Rosabella]

I had a dear friend that decided years and years ago to only read the scriptures and every conference talk ever given and went to the temple ALL the time. He prayed continually. That was all of his entertainment. He kept up on news just enough to have an overview of the world. He truly looked for all answers to life's question through reading the Scriptures and Conference talks and that is it. I am not kidding he has every single conference talk and can quote them. He was the easiest person to talk to about anything. He was like a walking encyclopedia of the truths of the Gospel. He grasped instantly anything that many struggle with understanding. He had the strongest gift of discernment I have seen. He was such an example of that fact that one does not need to be educated by the world or have a huge education to grasp the most deep doctrines, political understands, etc Knowledge and wisdom came easy for him because he searched first the words of God and by doing this he was not lead astray by ideas from man. If all Mormons did this their would be NO question how or who we should vote for because we have already been told.

[lundbaek]

I also think reading the Book of Mormon and getting back to God will help us truly know and understand the Constitution. It wasn't until I joined the Church and really got into the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants that I began to wake up to the importance of the Constitution. But it took more than just that. The Book of Mormon is replete with commandments with which we need to comply in order to prepare ourselves for the blessings of immortality and eternal life. The Book of Mormon warns us of certain threats to our modern American nation and commands us to guard against those threats and to protect the freedoms we have. We need to keep in mind the commandments given us thru Moroni that we awake to a sense of the awful situation caused by the secret combinations and suffer not that they get above us. (See Ether 8: 23-24) That puts the ball squarely in our court.

In the Doctrine and Covenants we are told/commanded to befriend that law which is the constitutional law of the land. My understanding of that is that we are to “befriend” only those laws which square with the US Constitution and which support the principles of fundamental or unalienable rights for all persons. In the D&C we are told, as President Uchtdorf pointed out last October, to learn of certain things what will help us recognize the workings of the "secret combination" that President Benson testified of in 1988. And I believe this "secret combination" is among the "hidden things of darkness" we are to bring to light wherein we know them.

[lundbaek]

"If all Mormons did this their would be NO question how or who we should vote for because we have already been told." Yuppers. I have on occason recommended members to read just the following verses in D&C: 134:1, 101:77&80, 98:4-7, and 109:54. Some seem to get it, others not. What does it do for you? Let us know, please.

“For members of the Church, education is not merely a good idea—it’s a commandment. We are to learn “of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad.”“ ( President Uchtdorf, October 2009 General Conference Priesthood Session ) (See D&C 88:79 in its entirety)

[Squally]

Let's imagine a scenario: That the United States were filled with 80-90% mormons-- the typical mormons that we see today. Would you think that we would be immune from the sly secret combinations that make up the rest of the population?? If we didn't uphold the constitution, we would be in the same place we are now. Just look at the state of Utah itself. Again, I'd say that most of them don't know jack about the constitution.
It's the same reason why we keep electing progressive republicans. We have so much apathy to actually get involved in politics and find out what these politicians are really like. We're too trusting because "all is well in Zion".

You nailed it. People can be righteous but ingorant of what it takes to keep evil from overtaking us. Utah is an absolute perfect example. The many members who allow and even choose the gadiantons destructive socialism and debt also home teach, serve and fulfill callings.

[Rosabella]

Let's imagine a scenario: That the United States were filled with 80-90% mormons-- the typical mormons that we see today. Would you think that we would be immune from the sly secret combinations that make up the rest of the population?? If we didn't uphold the constitution, we would be in the same place we are now. Just look at the state of Utah itself. Again, I'd say that most of them don't know jack about the constitution.
It's the same reason why we keep electing progressive republicans. We have so much apathy to actually get involved in politics and find out what these politicians are really like. We're too trusting because "all is well in Zion".

You nailed it. People can be righteous but ingorant of what it takes to keep evil from overtaking us. Utah is an absolute perfect example. The many members who allow and even choose the gadiantons destructive socialism and debt also home teach, serve and fulfill callings.

Utah is not righteous. It might have the appearance but there is sooo much sin that many do not have the Spirit with them. Just doing callings does not mean one has the Spirit, nor does just being active LDS. There are plenty of Active LDS committing horrible sins in secret. The Wheat and the Tares are still growing together.

[Squally]

Let's imagine a scenario: That the United States were filled with 80-90% mormons-- the typical mormons that we see today. Would you think that we would be immune from the sly secret combinations that make up the rest of the population?? If we didn't uphold the constitution, we would be in the same place we are now. Just look at the state of Utah itself. Again, I'd say that most of them don't know jack about the constitution.
It's the same reason why we keep electing progressive republicans. We have so much apathy to actually get involved in politics and find out what these politicians are really like. We're too trusting because "all is well in Zion".

You nailed it. People can be righteous but ingorant of what it takes to keep evil from overtaking us. Utah is an absolute perfect example. The many members who allow and even choose the gadiantons destructive socialism and debt also home teach, serve and fulfill callings.

Utah is not righteous. It might have the appearance but there is sooo much sin that many do not have the Spirit with them. Just doing callings does not mean one has the Spirit, nor does just being active LDS. There are plenty of Active LDS committing horrible sins in secret. The Wheat and the Tares are still growing together.

how does all that home teaching done by unrighteous saints help, or that missionary work by unrighteous saints, or temple work, or etc etc.... most of this is thus being done by unrighteous people I guess, such as almost all the current temple workers chose wickeness/socialism in the fourties, fities, and sixties, and seventies, when they were warned and took no heed to choose righteous government and constitutional principles; and now they serve in the temple as our country is destroyed by their choices long ago.... It's just like running up debt for the future generatons, better to let someone else pay for our stupidity instead of paying for it right now and actually sacrificing.

[Rosabella]

Utah is not righteous. It might have the appearance but there is sooo much sin that many do not have the Spirit with them. Just doing callings does not mean one has the Spirit, nor does just being active LDS. There are plenty of Active LDS committing horrible sins in secret. The Wheat and the Tares are still growing together.

how does all that home teaching done by unrighteous saints help, or that missionary work by unrighteous saints, or temple work, or etc etc.... most of this is thus being done by unrighteous people I guess, such as almost all the current temple workers chose wickeness/socialism in the fourties, fities, and sixties, and seventies, when they were warned and took no heed to choose righteous government and constitutional principles; and now they serve in the temple as our country is destroyed by their choices long ago.... It's just like running up debt for the future generatons, better to let someone else pay for our stupidity instead of paying for it right now and actually sacrificing.

The whole point is we as a people need to repent in and out of the Church to get back on the right track. Not everyone is wicked in UT it is just silly to use UT as the standard of Mormonism. It is not. There are far more Sunday Mormons in UT then across the world.

[lundbaek]

Earlier this evening I was at a tea party meeting and I challenged a small group of LDSs to testify in the coming fast and testimony meeting that the Lord inspired the writing of the US Constitution by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose, and that we as Latter-day Saints have a special duty to honour freedom and honour the Constitution. All in the group told of having made similar statements from the pulpit and of the negative responses they got. One said he was told by his bishop to never speak about the Constitution in church again.

[Amore Vero]

how does all that home teaching done by unrighteous saints help, or that missionary work by unrighteous saints, or temple work, or etc etc.... most of this is thus being done by unrighteous people I guess.

Yes, even though everyone in the Church, except a few, seem to be deceived & corrupt today, it's amazing how the Lord can still accomplish much good while working through & with even a corrupt people, though he doesn't put up with such corruptness for long before destroying them, even if he can get much good done through them.

[Jason]

Utah is not righteous. It might have the appearance but there is sooo much sin that many do not have the Spirit with them. Just doing callings does not mean one has the Spirit, nor does just being active LDS. There are plenty of Active LDS committing horrible sins in secret. The Wheat and the Tares are still growing together.

how does all that home teaching done by unrighteous saints help, or that missionary work by unrighteous saints, or temple work, or etc etc.... most of this is thus being done by unrighteous people I guess, such as almost all the current temple workers chose wickeness/socialism in the fourties, fities, and sixties, and seventies, when they were warned and took no heed to choose righteous government and constitutional principles; and now they serve in the temple as our country is destroyed by their choices long ago.... It's just like running up debt for the future generatons, better to let someone else pay for our stupidity instead of paying for it right now and actually sacrificing.

The whole point is we as a people need to repent in and out of the Church to get back on the right track. Not everyone is wicked in UT it is just silly to use UT as the standard of Mormonism. It is not. There are far more Sunday Mormons in UT then across the world.

Hence the arrival of the test that Heber C Kimball talked about....

[Jason]

An above post suggest the Spirit will guide us in our decisions without any homework on our part. Run that by Oliver Cowdery sometime.

When I note an Area 70 organizing firesides for Senator Reid to speak, when I find leaders and other "pillars" in our ward and stake supporting Senator McCain and refusing to believe what they could see and hear on Youtube of Mitt Romney demonstrating his disdain for constitutional principles and a major tenet of the LDS faith, I guess we are generally in worse shape than I assumed.

....is the above a symptom of knowledge or spirit???? That appears to be the question of the day.

Let me ask this question again.....

All of the symptoms people have brought up (our current state - politically/Constitution/etc.) - Is the root cause of this problem knowledge or spiritual????

I take the stance that its a spiritual problem (ignorance is a choice...to complete disobedience to knowledge already obtained) and must be addressed primarily by feeding the spirit.....versus saying its a knowledge problem (we've been beguiled) and if we only had more knowledge we could correct the problem ourselves. Is that a fair summary?

[Amore Vero]

where is there a man, even in the Church, who like Moroni did, is doing a man's or leader's 'greatest responsibility', that of 'standing up for freedom & the protection of women & children'

I say look for those that are calling people back to the God of Abraham and calling them to repentance and prayer and calling people back to the Divine Constitution as it was written and you will find Moroni(s)

Yes, Teaching these things is part of it, but the other part is applying 'consequences' for disobedience to these laws & commandments. It is the 'lack of consequences' by leaders today that is encouraging everyone to sin, no matter how wonderful their talks may be to repent.

When there are no consequences for sin it's as if there is no law against it. And the only thing for evil to tryumph is for good men to do nothing, but preach.

Moroni backed up his preaching with consquences. There is little protection for freedom & women & children today because we only hear mild talks on repentance & being good, while few consequences are applied today for evil.

Evil men laugh at good men who only stand by shaking their finger saying 'be good', but they will listen to & obey men who are willing to back up their preaching with consequences.

No Church can survive from preaching alone, 'men must be men' like Moroni, & apply consequences for disobedience.

Those are the men I can't find anywhere.

[InfoWarrior82]

An above post suggest the Spirit will guide us in our decisions without any homework on our part. Run that by Oliver Cowdery sometime.

When I note an Area 70 organizing firesides for Senator Reid to speak, when I find leaders and other "pillars" in our ward and stake supporting Senator McCain and refusing to believe what they could see and hear on Youtube of Mitt Romney demonstrating his disdain for constitutional principles and a major tenet of the LDS faith, I guess we are generally in worse shape than I assumed.

....is the above a symptom of knowledge or spirit???? That appears to be the question of the day.

Let me ask this question again.....

All of the symptoms people have brought up (our current state - politically/Constitution/etc.) - Is the root cause of this problem knowledge or spiritual????

I take the stance that its a spiritual problem (ignorance is a choice...to complete disobedience to knowledge already obtained) and must be addressed primarily by feeding the spirit.....versus saying its a knowledge problem (we've been beguiled) and if we only had more knowledge we could correct the problem ourselves. Is that a fair summary?

The constitution was designed to work for all people on their varying degrees of righteousness. Including atheists! It is a wonderful thing to know, as members, the divine origins of the constitution. But that is not necessary for the country to thrive in freedom and liberty. We have muslims who leave their oppressive countries for the chance to live here in freedom. They may not know the commandments or how to be righteous, but they are involved in learning about why they are free and how to keep it that way. The root problem is that the devil leadeth us away to a carnal security... (apathy) and to convince us to say that "all is well in Zion". Even the most righteous members are not involved in gaining the knowledge and wisdom of righteous constitutional principles. I know LOTS of those people personally.

Just a hint: There are temple workers who voted for Harry Reid.

[Jason]

Let me ask this question again.....

All of the symptoms people have brought up (our current state - politically/Constitution/etc.) - Is the root cause of this problem knowledge or spiritual????

I take the stance that its a spiritual problem (ignorance is a choice...to complete disobedience to knowledge already obtained) and must be addressed primarily by feeding the spirit.....versus saying its a knowledge problem (we've been beguiled) and if we only had more knowledge we could correct the problem ourselves. Is that a fair summary?

The constitution was designed to work for all people on their varying degrees of righteousness. Including atheists! It is a wonderful thing to know, as members, the divine origins of the constitution. But that is not necessary for the country to thrive in freedom and liberty. We have muslims who leave their oppressive countries for the chance to live here in freedom. They may not know the commandments or how to be righteous, but they are involved in learning about why they are free and how to keep it that way. The root problem is that the devil leadeth us away to a carnal security... (apathy) and to convince us to say that "all is well in Zion". Even the most righteous members are not involved in gaining the knowledge and wisdom of righteous constitutional principles. I know LOTS of those people personally.

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

- John Adams

[InfoWarrior82]

Let me ask this question again.....

All of the symptoms people have brought up (our current state - politically/Constitution/etc.) - Is the root cause of this problem knowledge or spiritual????

I take the stance that its a spiritual problem (ignorance is a choice...to complete disobedience to knowledge already obtained) and must be addressed primarily by feeding the spirit.....versus saying its a knowledge problem (we've been beguiled) and if we only had more knowledge we could correct the problem ourselves. Is that a fair summary?

The constitution was designed to work for all people on their varying degrees of righteousness. Including atheists! It is a wonderful thing to know, as members, the divine origins of the constitution. But that is not necessary for the country to thrive in freedom and liberty. We have muslims who leave their oppressive countries for the chance to live here in freedom. They may not know the commandments or how to be righteous, but they are involved in learning about why they are free and how to keep it that way. The root problem is that the devil leadeth us away to a carnal security... (apathy) and to convince us to say that "all is well in Zion". Even the most righteous members are not involved in gaining the knowledge and wisdom of righteous constitutional principles. I know LOTS of those people personally.

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

- John Adams

I agree that when we are not moral, we lose perspective. But I know a lot of "immoral people" who love liberty.

Are you saying mormons, as a whole, are immoral?

[Jason]

The constitution was designed to work for all people on their varying degrees of righteousness. Including atheists! It is a wonderful thing to know, as members, the divine origins of the constitution. But that is not necessary for the country to thrive in freedom and liberty. We have muslims who leave their oppressive countries for the chance to live here in freedom. They may not know the commandments or how to be righteous, but they are involved in learning about why they are free and how to keep it that way. The root problem is that the devil leadeth us away to a carnal security... (apathy) and to convince us to say that "all is well in Zion". Even the most righteous members are not involved in gaining the knowledge and wisdom of righteous constitutional principles. I know LOTS of those people personally.

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

- John Adams

I agree that when we are not moral, we lose perspective. But I know a lot of "immoral people" who love liberty.

In my experience its usually "their" version of liberty! As long as they get theirs....those people are also easily bought off!

[InfoWarrior82]

I agree that when we are not moral, we lose perspective. But I know a lot of "immoral people" who love liberty.

In my experience its usually "their" version of liberty! As long as they get theirs....those people are also easily bought off!

That is true. So maybe we can both agree that when our spirituality is dulled, we become apathetic to the workings of government?

[Jason]

I agree that when we are not moral, we lose perspective. But I know a lot of "immoral people" who love liberty.

In my experience its usually "their" version of liberty! As long as they get theirs....those people are also easily bought off!

That is true. So maybe we can both agree that when our spirituality is dulled, we become apathetic to the workings of government?

Or that when we make choices that are perceived to be in our best interest in direct contradiction to inspired counsel on correct principles (despite knowing better)....we can expect to reap the consequences and it should come as no surprise (centuries of warnings).

In other words we chose to believe the lies as they support our short term self interest (house prices will go up forever so who cares about purchasing a small modest house.....or speculating on ten others - or voting for Roosevelt because the majority of us get farming subsidies from the government....no matter if the living prophet counseled us otherwise and in the long term we know we are enslaving future generations). We've been on the slippery slope for a long long time!

In my experience with management, investors, etc......the easiest time for management to push fraudulent data on an investor is when the investor is invested up to his eye balls and he wants with all his heart (riches) to believe management such that he will indeed have the prospect of getting the massive payoff.....and is not at all at risk of losing everything he's put into it and more!

Hence most people just don't "want" to know of the awful (wicked) situation they are in.....and this is a spiritual problem (not facing, accepting, seeking....TRUTH). God is a God of truth and cannot lie. The wicked take the truth to be hard!

Here's a key look at controlled opposition -



They got a nice launch from Alex Jones!
http://www.metalunderground.com/news/de ... wsid=51382





Knowing the author behind the current power structure.....are these guys working for a different master???? Is it a knowledge or spirituality problem?

Even Hollywood is getting in on the act....



....just setting the stage for the next act in the New World Order and its religion - the new age movement!

[Amore Vero]

Just a hint: There are temple workers who voted for Harry Reid.

Just because someone is a temple worker does not mean they are truly 'righteous'. I have known many temple workers who secretly do very evil things.

Righteous people have the Holy Spirit as their guide & thus, would not be decieved to vote for unrighteous people or people who won't protect us & our rights & freedoms.. Truly righteous people would all agree & be supporting the same good people, for the Spirit would tell them all the same thing.