LDS agency

[English Saint]

What did you make of last week's conference?

On the way out of PH session I was stopped by a long standing member who asked me what I thought of the new Labour leader declaring the Iraq war to have been a mistake. I said that politicians say whatever they think will make them popular. I added that I think the invasion of Iraq was wrong and our troops should come home. He said that was sending the wrong message to the troops, implying that it's better to keep them in the killing fields than hurt their feelings by telling them that their being there was wrong all along. I disagreed.
At this point he looked quite shocked and angry. I pointed out that the final speaker - Pres Monson spoke about the importance of agency. At this point another older PH member stopped and said that it is no wonder that people don't vote for my party (I stood as a UKIP candidate in two Westminster elections). He said that we've given the Iraqi people some of our democracy so that they can enjoy the freedoms that we have. I disagreed with him. He became increasingly agitated at my suggestion that Britain is not a free country. I said that he should go out into the street and begin preaching from Leviticus 18:22, then he'll see just how much freedom he really has. I reminded him that we have a free speech exclusion zone around parliament. He said that's because of the terrorists.

There have been loads of mainstream news articles in Britain where old people have been arrested or threatened with arrest for objecting to gay pride marches etc. A 14-year-old schoolgirl from England wa arrested for refusing to work with a bunch of kids who couldn't speak a word of English. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... upils.html She was locked up for 3 and a half hours in a police cell (jail).

Anyway, I told the two of them that we don't have any right going over to foreign countries and imposing our will on other people, because we are depriving them of their agency. I'm astonished that they didn't get it. Agency was mentioned a number of times during conference. It wasn't a nice feeling getting into my car and driving home after this confrontation outside the chapel. I don't really know why they both decided to attack me in this way. Presumably it was the devil.

[AussieOi]

9 years on and they are still morons eh

give up on them

lost causes

[Squally]

Sorry that you have to have the ignorant surround you after the priesthood session. Seems most priesthood holders really do love war.

[Mahonri]

Sorry that you have to have the ignorant surround you after the priesthood session. Seems most priesthood holders really do love war.

Nah. No holder of the Priesthood loves war. A lot of members who hold Priesthood offices love war, but you can't love war and still have the Priesthood

[larsenb]

What did you make of last week's conference?

. . . . . . . . . . . Anyway, I told the two of them that we don't have any right going over to foreign countries and imposing our will on other people, because we are depriving them of their agency. I'm astonished that they didn't get it. Agency was mentioned a number of times during conference. It wasn't a nice feeling getting into my car and driving home after this confrontation outside the chapel. I don't really know why they both decided to attack me in this way. Presumably it was the devil.

You need to give them the quotes from the D&C and especially the Book of Mormon that make a powerful case for non-pre-emptive warfare, i.e., one people/country is NOT justified in going up into the lands of another people to make war on them. They are only justified in defending themselves against attacks directed at them in their own countries.

I've collected most of these passages. Give me the word, and I'll send you what I have.

[ChelC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qh__HLkHcM

This is a powerful movie. I just watched it again and your comments remind me of this scene from the movie. A little background if you don't know who Sophie is. She and her brother Hans and many of their friends authored and distributed The White Rose papers in Nazi Germany. The papers spoke out against total war, in favor of peace and against Hitler. You can google and read them, they're really pretty mild, but they were sentenced to death by guillotine for high treason, demoralizing the troops, and aiding the enemy.

I don't think our troops are evil, and I think we have fought some battles that needed to be fought. Their families suffer, and most of them really just want the best for their country and countrymen. With that said, wars that we believe are wrong should be spoken out against, no matter the consequence. Feeling love and empathy and respect for the soldiers who give up so much for a cause they believe in is good... but shutting our mouths about a war we believe to be wrong to avoid demoralizing them is far more dangerous, IMO.

[sbsion]

Sorry that you have to have the ignorant surround you after the priesthood session. Seems most priesthood holders really do love war.

Nah. No holder of the Priesthood loves war. A lot of members who hold Priesthood offices love war, but you can't love war and still have the Priesthood

satan does...........hmmmmmmmm did Israel make war when they went to the promised land?............Hey Heleman, throw down the sword

[creator]

satan does...........hmmmmmmmm did Israel make war when they went to the promised land?............Hey Heleman, throw down the sword

sbsion, you mentioned this on another forum, that satan has the priesthood, I think I asked you for more info but don't recall you posting anything?? Can you point me to any conference talks or other sources from church history regarding this? I would appreciate it.

[Henmasher]

satan does...........hmmmmmmmm did Israel make war when they went to the promised land?............Hey Heleman, throw down the sword

sbsion, you mentioned this on another forum, that satan has the priesthood, I think I asked you for more info but don't recall you posting anything?? Can you point me to any conference talks or other sources from church history regarding this? I would appreciate it.

edited:

Maybe we should go to the temple. It is quite evident and quite apparent during the endowment that sbsion is not wrong here. think symbolism and then think priesthood symbolism and then think who still has it

Priesthood organizes, priestcraft disorganizes.

Here is another hint: think of name changes regarding where they are and what they have in relation to priesthood

Story of Job...

All these examples are of people that were commanded to go to war. I believe Mahonri is implying the general love of war itself in the minds of many priesthood holders. The thought of gun wielding and throwing grenades is a fantasy of many LDS men when in fact they should shrink at the thought of killing laban , I say this because I was a "kill the towel heads" type until the spirit straightened me out. No man of God takes pleasure in destruction, but they are however obedient to their master.