Shari'a Law

[Amore Vero]

SALT LAKE CITY 8 September 2010 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, through a spokesman, issued the following statement today in response to news media inquiries:
“A key tenet of our faith is to accord everyone the freedom to worship as they choose. It is regrettable that anyone would regard the burning of any scriptural text as a legitimate form of protest or disagreement.”

Our Church was just calling for respect for all religion's 'scripture' or whatever they consider to be their revelation from their God. Whether we agree with it & think it's correct or not. They were not saying that we believe other religion's scripture is true revelation. Lets not make the statement out to be more than it was.

[AussieOi]

SALT LAKE CITY 8 September 2010 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, through a spokesman, issued the following statement today in response to news media inquiries:
“A key tenet of our faith is to accord everyone the freedom to worship as they choose. It is regrettable that anyone would regard the burning of any scriptural text as a legitimate form of protest or disagreement.”

Our Church was just calling for respect for all religion's 'scripture' or whatever they consider to be their revelation from their God. Whether we agree with it & think it's correct or not. They were not saying that we believe other religion's scripture is true revelation. Lets not make the statement out to be more than it was.

no one here is confused that islam is not gods holy religion
we just have some clowns trying to tell us islam isn't a religion
also, what of the statements of the church that god did give a portion of light to mohammed?

[Amore Vero]

also, what of the statements of the church that god did give a portion of light to mohammed?

Pretty much every person in this world is given a portion of light.

[Original_Intent]

also, what of the statements of the church that god did give a portion of light to mohammed?

Pretty much every person in this world is given a portion of light.

The point being, that we should be trying to build bridges of understanding rather than the war and fear mongering. It is pretty clear which of my "Bro's" are doing which. The spirit in this thread is completely the opposite of the spirt in the thread started by Dr. Jones, and he actually quotes apostles and not those who seem to want conflict.

Something that I would expect you to be supportive of as it is an expression of True Love.

[pritchet1]

Aussie;

maybe so, but the present horror is the US foreign policy & your imperial war machine
(i thought the russian and chinese commies were the enemy?)

We know that those who control (banksters) government will have to answer to God for their actions. We on this forum know that the US forces are being used incorrectly in various ground wars around the world and our country (USSA) will suffer for creating those conflicts, instead of resolving them peacefully according to Judeo-Christian-based principles. We offer no excuse for that behavior. We are attempting to correct those mistakes through the TEA party movement efforts. It may require a 2nd Revolution, especially if we have been paying attention to latter-day prophecies.

I personally do not have an imperial war machine. So far, as far as I can tell, the USSA has always given back the countries our fathers, sons and daughters have fought in and only asked for land in which to bury them, in memory for freedoms fought for (if we do not include the "undeclared" wars of recent past).

The Gospel has been successfully taught in the former Soviet Union and there is a Temple in the Ukraine today. The Gospel is also being taught in China and there is a Temple in Hong Kong. I see there are at least 2 temples in Australia and your own Prime Minister at one time told those who supported Islam and promoted Shari'a Law to leave the country, if they refused to assimilate - http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/australia.asp

We (USSA) are now more "Communist" than Russia or China under the current regime with it Czars, etc. We offer no excuse for that either. We were asleep.

No "Christian" church buildings or Jewish Synagogues are allowed to be constructed in Islamic-controlled countries (existing ones are being systematically destroyed and followers of the Christ are systematically being killed), nor are our own people allowed to congregate and worship in those countries or to proselyte, except on penalty of death.

Do you wish Shari'a Law to be established here in the Americas?

[pritchet1]

Aussie;

we just have some clowns trying to tell us islam isn't a religion

So true. And as class clown, I am not alone in that determination.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200706120009

"Ladies and gentlemen, we have to recognize that Islam is not a religion. It is a worldwide political movement meant on domination of the world. And it is meant to subjugate all people under Islamic law."

http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm

The core of Islam—that is, the Qur'an, Hadis and Sharia—is filled with unbounded hatred for the unbelievers, unbelievably intolerant toward them and extremely cruel and merciless to Muslims, who dare to deviate from its doctrine.

We also realized that Islam is beyond alteration, because Muslims—who attempt to modernize and reform its unremitting bigotry, irrational rituals and its cruel and draconian punitive measures—are targeted for annihilation. Our verdict was that the only way to escape from the tyranny of Islam is to leave it altogether. We have, therefore, discarded Islam from our lives so that we can be free to enjoy a normal, pleasant and humane life in complete harmony with all peoples on earth, irrespective of their religion, race or creed.

Having thoroughly understood—through our meticulous investigation of Islam, lasting years to decades—that Islam was nothing but a lie, most of us have left Islam silently because of the fear for our lives. As Islamic terrorism and violence overwhelms the world, particularly in the post-9/11 years, we felt that it's a responsibility upon us to make world's 1.4 billion Muslims aware of the falsity of their religion and its cruel nature so that they can make informed choice and leave Islam to live with love, respect and harmony with rest of humanity.

We also felt it incumbent upon us to make the non-Muslim world aware of the reality of Islam and take timely precautionary measures against this religion of terror, hate and mayhem. We tell the world that the ongoing terrorism, unleashed by Islamic militants, is not an aberration from the so-called 'peaceful religion of Islam'; instead, it is the real Islam preached and practiced by its founder, Prophet Muhammad. A thorough study of the Qur'an and prophetic tradition (Hadith, Sunnah) makes it clear.

We, therefore, have launched this website to expose the "real Islam"—the Islam that is determined to replace the modern civilization with the 7th-century Arab Bedouin barbarism, peddled as the true Islamic Civilization. Let the world watch Islam through www.islam-watch.org and be warned.

http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns ... igion.html

Islam – not a religion? Is this just hyperbole? Or can she really mean it?

Ms. Darwish offers three arguments in support: Her main argument is concerned with voluntariness. Although Mohammad in the early (Meccan) portions of the Koran states that the choice of religion must be voluntary, this position undergoes a sea change in the later (Medinan) segments, after Mohammad had become a warlord, gaining power and booty from raids on neighboring tribes, and putting apostasy from the Islamic faith in the same category as treason in the military. Darwish comments, “The most glaring evidence that Islam is hardly ‘religion’ is in its apostasy law – the order to kill those who leave it. That immediately moved Islam from the realm of religion to the realm of totalitarian political ideology.” In other words, the apostasy law, still prevailing in modern Islamic societies, is incompatible with authentic religion; a non-voluntary religion or non-voluntary continuance in religion would be a contradiction within the very concept of religion.

Her second point has to do with the widespread and official suppression of women in Islam, for which she offers numerous instances – legal, cultural, and historical. This argument is echoed by Wafa Sultan, in A God Who Hates. Ms. Sultan traces the multiple instances of Muslim hatred for women to a conception of an Allah who hates women; and this hatred, she continues, opens the floodgates for hatred of all outsiders. Ms. Sultan points to the Fatiha, the prayer repeated five times a day by devout Muslims, the Arabic version of which is embedded with code words or formulas of hatred towards Jews and Christians. The question raised by both Darwish and Sultan, of course, is whether an official policy of hatred can be part of a bona fide religion. Here again, it is important to take into account the tremendous difference in tone between the earlier, Meccan, parts of the Koran and the later Medinan Suras.

The third argument is that Islam is marked by the transformation that took place in Medina, after Mohammad became a powerful warlord bent on destroying all opposition. Darwish writes, “Toward the end of his life, he (Mohammad) even declared a whole group of people as illegal to live – the Jews. His message turned into a violent obsession to eliminate non-Muslims. At that point, such violent messages abrogated any previous tolerance he taught. Religions and people who did not yield to his authority became Islam's number one enemy. That is when Islam turned from a religion into a political system, one that kept Muslims inside the prison of Islam – under penalty of death.”

Many commentators and critics of Islam have pointed out that Islam is inherently political, without anything comparable to the distinction between church and state, Caesar and God, in Christianity and the Western world in general (although the separation of the religious and the political is never nice and neat). But Darwish goes still further: Islam is not even a religion often willy-nilly intermixed with politics, but rather a political ideology, purely and simply. Could she be right?

Going beyond such criticisms, Darwish offers some thoughtful and seemingly incontrovertible criteria which must be met, before classification of Islam as a “religion” becomes feasible: 1) a religion must be a personal choice; 2) no religion should kill those who leave it; 3) a religion must never order the killing and subjugation of those who do not choose to be its members; and 4) a religion must abide by basic human rights.

[pritchet1]

Aussie;

mate thats pathetic. you make our church out to be disengenous liars

Hardly. I hate no one. And I extend the hand of fellowship and love to all mankind, including you.

The un-named church spokesman/woman (Public Relations) wrote that it was not correct to publicly destroy any so-called religious texts. I did not question that, nor say the spokesman was incorrect.

Please refrain from trying to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt and delivering personal attacks and stick to the topic at hand, which deals with Shari'a Law vs Liberty.

[Amore Vero]

also, what of the statements of the church that god did give a portion of light to mohammed?

Pretty much every person in this world is given a portion of light.

The point being, that we should be trying to build bridges of understanding rather than the war and fear mongering. It is pretty clear which of my "Bro's" are doing which. The spirit in this thread is completely the opposite of the spirt in the thread started by Dr. Jones, and he actually quotes apostles and not those who seem to want conflict.

Something that I would expect you to be supportive of as it is an expression of True Love.

I agree we should try in every way to build bridges of understanding rather than war & fear mongering, but it also must be done in wisdom & with both eyes open. True Love is wise & sees & addresses both the good & the bad.

[AussieOi]

instead of resolving them peacefully according to Judeo-Christian-based principles.

so hows those peaceful Judeo-Christian-based principles been working for the world eh?

the USSA has always given back the countries our fathers, sons and daughters have fought in and only asked for land in which to bury them, in memory for freedoms fought for (if we do not include the "undeclared" wars of recent past).?

i heard hawkeye say that in The Last of the Mohicans. Where'd you wiki that? Jack Nicolson and Tom Cruise?

No "Christian" church buildings or Jewish Synagogues are allowed to be constructed in Islamic-controlled countries (existing ones are being systematically destroyed and followers of the Christ are systematically being killed), nor are our own people allowed to congregate and worship in those countries or to proselyte, except on penalty of death. ?

Jews in Iranq and Iran

Do you wish Shari'a Law to be established here in the Americas?

Do you wish Deuteronomy Law to be established there in the Americas? oh touche!

Why can that be left alone but much the same in Sharia be so dangerous, meanwhile its the USA and Christian west blowing up Moslems in their countries

[AussieOi]

we have to recognize that Islam is not a religion. It is a worldwide political movement meant on domination of the world. And it is meant to subjugate all people under Islamic law.

all those points are redundant

we_know_ and believe that all other churches are of the devil

if you want to say Islam is not a religion then you have to say Catholics and Seventh Day Adventists are not a religion.

[pritchet1]

I liked the quote posted earlier in another thread that stated that if Islam is a religion, then Great Britain is a religion.

[AussieOi]

I liked the quote posted earlier in another thread that stated that if Islam is a religion, then Great Britain is a religion.

is that meant to be an answer?

[pritchet1]

Aussie;

Since you don't like any of my answers, based on your responses, I would say; "Yes".

all those points are redundant

And your point is?

"Out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses..."

And you have not responded regarding you apparently being a proponent of Shari'a Law and in name-calling me a clown.

Repent, brother!

[skmo]

There are over a billion practicing Muslims in the world, many of whom are not our enemy and are trying to get along in life at the same time they're living their idea of their religion. A very small percentage are stirring up violence, anger, and contention. Here's where the problem comes in:

The natural man is an enemy to God. This means our natural tendencies lead us away from the Truth and Light that are internal to us all. Since man is a social creature, we tend to band together with those we most closely resemble. A side effect of this is the creation of chasms between "us" and "them" in most situations. As differences between Western Civilization and Islam separate us, the more those small percentages on both sides win converts. Think about it: Isn't that what the missionary program, the home teaching program, the Relief Society are trying to do? Create stronger followers of our religion? Isn't that what Al Quaeda is trying to do? Isn't that what Nahdlatul Ulama is trying to do when they say that yes, you should chop off part of your baby girl's sexual organs?

Okay, I'll grant you that the few Muslims I've worked with were more moderate and weren't anywhere near as good with detonators or chemicals that go boom as I am, but how long before their bombardment of hatred from others (I won't be counted among them) turns them to find solace and strength in those more vocal in their beliefs?

[pritchet1]

Publius Huldah wrote the following regarding the Constitution and Islamization of America;

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/27856

This is an encouraging paper, because it explains the moral and constitutional justifications to stop the islamization of our country.

We face a grave threat - the Muslims are infiltrating our country and taking over. We seem powerless to resist: Our governments won’t acknowledge the threat; we are told Muslims have “constitutional rights” to come here, proselytize everywhere, build mosques, and implement shariah in their communities and in the public square; and our governments are letting them do it.

The Muslims seek to replace our Constitution with shariah - their totalitarian political, economic, military, social & legal system - with the goal of incorporating our Country into a global Islamic caliphate.

They are making progress in islamicizing our Country because we are not resisting.

And the dreadful message we are getting from all sources is that our Constitution renders us powerless to resist islamization.

But read on, and I will show you how our Constitution & Declaration of Independence - properly understood - actually give our federal, State & local governments justification and authority to stop the islamization of our Country. Once we understand two things, it becomes clear what we may - and must - do:

One : Islam is not a “religion” in the sense we understand religion. Islam is about TOTAL POWER. It is a system which controls every aspect of the lives of those who have the misfortune to be subjected to it. It masquerades as a religion, but once we understand that it is just another totalitarian system - like soviet communism, we can deal with it and defeat it.

Once in place, Islam is enforced with stone-age barbarism. It masquerades as a religion to recruit gullible fools who become suicide bombers, and to provide “cover” for officials in the Western countries who, indoctrinated with the Lies of multiculturalism & political correctness, look for an excuse to do nothing.

Two : We must understand Our Founding Principles - these are our Sword & Shield - that (1) Rights come from God alone, (2) Muslims do not have the right to divest us of our Rights, and (3) the purpose of civil government is to secure the Rights God gave us.

Now let us learn more of our Sword and Shield.
1. Let us first consider Our Rights. What are our rights, and where do they come from? The Constitution? The First Ten Amendments? NO! The Declaration of Independence says:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - that to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, ...

Those words are golden: Our Rights come from God Who Created the Universe; and the purpose of civil government is to secure the Rights GOD gave us.

God gave us many Rights: Life! Liberty! Pursuit of Happiness!
To work and enjoy the fruits of our own labors. To earn, inherit and keep private property.
To demand that the civil authorities obey the Law - and to hold them accountable when they don’t.
To have a civil government which protects our God given rights, protects us from invasion and criminals, but gives fair trials to accused persons.
Equal treatment under the law: Courts are not to favor the rich, or the poor, or males or females.
God means for us to enjoy life! Healthy food, wine and strong drink (in moderation); attractive dress for women, the marriage relation between man & woman, prosperity, and liberty!
As long as we obey the criminal laws (don’t murder, steal, bear false witness, and the like), we have the right to be left alone.

Liberty is the rule in God’s Model for civil government. That is why our Liberty Bell quotes Leviticus 25:10 - “Proclaim LIBERTY throughout all the Land unto all the Inhabitants thereof.”


2. Do Muslims respect the rights God gave us?

Life? Theirs is a culture of death: murder, honor killings & suicide bombers.

Liberty? Theirs is a culture where women are slaves and prisoners, little girls toys for old men, and conversion to Christianity a capital offense.

Pursuit of Happiness? Theirs is a culture of torture & sadism. Young Muslim girls in America who talked to non-Muslim boys were shot to death by their father in the back seat of his taxicab. Wife-beating is commonplace. Women who don’t cover their hair are lashed. Women are mutilated and maimed on the faces and even in their private places.

Freedom of Speech? Theirs is a culture where criticizing Islam leads to a terrible death.

You can go down the list: For every Right God gave us, the Muslims take it away.

Let’s look at just one God-given right: The Right to a fair trial:

Bearing false witness is condemned. (The Ten Commandments);
The evidence of two or more witnesses is required to prove a case (Deut 19:15 & Matthew 18:16);
Public trials are required (Exodus 18:13); &
Judges are required to be fair, impartial, & without favoritism. (Deut. 1:16-17).

Do Muslims respect this God-given right to a fair trial? NO! In Iran, judges in “morals” cases (adultery) are allowed to make their own subjective determinations that a person is guilty even in the absence of any evidence!

Do Muslims have the “right” to impose in this Country a shariah system which takes away the rights GOD gave us? No! God did not give Muslims the “right” to take away from us, the rights He gave us!


3. We are told Muslims have a “First Amendment right” to build mosques, proselytize, and implement shariah here. But is that what the First Amendment says? No! Let’s read it:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The First Amendment doesn’t grant any rights to anybody! All it does is prohibit CONGRESS from making laws about religion, speech, the press, or assembly!

So Muslims do not have a “First Amendment right” to build mosques, proselytize, and implement shariah here.

4. Not only do Muslims claim the “right” to impose shariah in the Muslim communities springing up throughout our Country, they also claim the “right” to impose shariah law in the public square: They demand shariah compliant financial institutions, foot baths in public places, that wine, sausages, and the like be banned from their presence, that they be allowed to shut down public streets for “prayers”, etc.
Do Muslims have the “right” to apply their law here? No! Art. VI, clause 2 of Our Constitution says:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

OUR Constitution and laws authorized by OUR Constitution are the supreme law of this land - and anything to the contrary must fall. It violates Our Constitution for Muslims to practice shariah here! Muslims who thus seek to overthrow Our Constitution and replace it with shariah are guilty of criminal sedition. The federal government has the duty to prosecute them for sedition - or deport them.

5. Can the federal or state or local governments properly extend to Muslims a “right” to build mosques & proselytize here? No! Because The Declaration of Independence says the purpose of civil government is to secure the rights GOD gave us. Muslims seek to take away our God-given Rights. Civil government is supposed to protect us from those who seek to divest us of our Rights.

We must insist that our federal, State, and local governments STOP the islamization of Our Country. We must insist that they live up to the one legitimate purpose of civil government: to protect our GOD-given rights.

6. WE are a Christian Country based on Judeo - Christian principles. Our Constitution is not a suicide pact. It does not require us to permit Muslims to take Our Country over and destroy Our principles and impose their barbaric totalitarian system on us.

The Declaration of Independence recognizes God as Creator, supreme Judge and Regulator of the World, and as our Divine Protector.

Article VII of Our Constitution, just above the signatures, recognizes the Lordship of Jesus Christ. It says,

Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven ...

7. So! Let us summarize the above three Principles:

(1) Our Rights come from God - they predate & preexist the constitution. our constitution doesn’t give “rights” to anybody. so muslims don’t have “constitutional rights” to come here, build mosques, proselytize, and impose shariah.

(2) all the Evidence shows that Muslims take away from People the Rights God gave them. Since Our Declaration of Independence acknowledges that the purpose of civil governments is to secure the Rights GOD gave us, it is the duty and responsibility of civil governments at all levels to protect us from islamization.

(3) Article VI, clause 2, U.S. Constitution - the “Supremacy clause” - makes it unconstitutional for Muslims to practice shariah law ANYWHERE in Our Country.


8. The Center for Security Policy recently issued a scholarly (but readable) report: “Shariah: The Threat to America” . Important suggested policy changes are listed on pages 141-144. Tell your tea party groups! Take delegations to your local, state, and federal representatives and tell them about it. Most of them are weak & ignorant, so you must educate them and demand that they do their job and defend your community from islamization.

9. Dutch Member of Parliament Geert Wilders lists ten steps western countries must take to stop the islamization of their countries. All ten steps are mandated by our Declaration of Independence, and consistent with our Constitution:

(1) Stop cultural relativism: We must formalize the Idea that we have one dominant culture that is based on Judaism & Christianity [Wilders adds “humanism”].
(2) Stop pretending that Islam is a religion.
(3) Show the true face of fundamentalist Islam. It is a brutal totalitarian ideology.
(4) Stop all immigration from Muslim countries. For Muslims who are already citizens, tell them that if they adhere to our values and our Constitution, they may stay as equals. But if they deviate, we will expel them.
(5) Outlaw shariah and deport practitioners.
(6) Require Muslims to sign legally binding pledge of integration and allegiance.
(7) Stop building mosques.
(8) Seek reciprocity with Saudi Arabia for western churches & synagogues.
(9) Close all Islamic schools - they are fascist institutions teaching hate.
(10) Remove our current weak leaders.

It is time to boldly stand up for Our God, OUR Declaration of Independence, and Our Constitution, and say, “No!” to those who are taking over Our Country. It is time to use Our God-given unalienable Rights and Our Constitution as the Sword & Shield they are meant to be. We can and must use these to defeat Islamization. PH

[Like]

[Like]

Why are people comparing Islam and Mormonism to each other?

[Like]

Ok I saw this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Islam

[Amore Vero]

Why are people comparing Islam and Mormonism to each other?

Because there are many similarities, more than most realize. From polygamy to men in control.

[Like]

I am feeling like it is meant to put us on the same level as terrorist. Look at this video:

[pritchet1]

I didn't know "Mormonism" as "led by Glenn Beck" was a militant organization that was taking over America, did you? (Reference: first Manning video above).

Glenn Beck leads "Mormonism"?

[JMarsigli]

Somebody's Bible must read "Blessed be the warmongers".



The vast majority of all religions just want to be left to worship God according to the dictates of their own consciences.

When I refer to the vast majority, I am referring to followers of that religion. Most people just want to be left alone. Sadly, each religion has it's radical warmongers who seek to stir up strife and hatred. It's clear that Mormonism is included in that, and some of them even post on these forums.

That's quite an indictment of Mark and Pritchet. Why don't you come out and say names rather than playing games and dancing around it? See, what you did here, not being straightforward and all, seems closer to devilish deception than honesty.

Can we get a little honesty OI? Are you calling Mark and/or Pritchet "radical warmongers who seek to stir up strife and hatred"? Or were you not really inferring such when you inferred such?

[pritchet1]

Hey, I'll take the "Radical Warmonger" moniker for combatting Shari'a Law, if it helps to keep it from taking over supplanting/replacing the US Constitution and removing our freedom and liberty and practicing our worship of God in the way we have grown accustomed.

[pritchet1]

Manning has the power of God to "bind" Glenn Beck and his family to the Muslim faith? That's a nice trick. Can we do that kind of thing using the Priesthood?

I prefer he stick to the linen of getting the POTUS removed from office instead.

Why is it the everyone has some oddball quirk in their makeup?

[durangout]

also, what of the statements of the church that god did give a portion of light to mohammed?

Pretty much every person in this world is given a portion of light.

The point being, that we should be trying to build bridges of understanding rather than the war and fear mongering. It is pretty clear which of my "Bro's" are doing which. The spirit in this thread is completely the opposite of the spirt in the thread started by Dr. Jones, and he actually quotes apostles and not those who seem to want conflict.

Something that I would expect you to be supportive of as it is an expression of True Love.

Nobody is supporting conflict, we are supporting defending ourselves.