Shari'a Law

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pritchet1
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Shari'a Law

Post by pritchet1 »

The best article so far on Shari'a Law, written by David Yerushalmi;

http://comments.americanthinker.com/rea ... 72847.html
There are two brute facts about the shariah common denominator among the world's fully committed mujahideen and the still dangerous but lesser committed jihad sympathizers -- collectively numbering in the hundreds of millions according to surveys in the Muslim world.

FACT ONE: The shariah doctrine which calls for the murder of apostates and jihad against the infidels is not some perversion of a peaceful Islamic law.

Shariah by its own terms is a holistic doctrine and system not subject to division such that the innocuous ritual laws -- for example, those that regulate diet -- can be amputated and cauterized from the broader corpus which divides the world up into the dar al-Islam (the realm of peace) and dar al-harb (that part of the world controlled by infidels and therefore in a state of constant war with the Muslim realm as a matter of doctrine).

FACT TWO: U.S. law enforcement, intelligence, military, and political authorities have not as of yet conducted a serious study and analysis of shariah as the common enemy threat doctrine.

That is, the authorities who have taken an oath to protect and defend our lives and our Constitution from this nation's enemies have consciously chosen not to engage the enemy by willfully failing to "Know the Enemy," the most fundamental rule of successful warfare. What drives this failing is not the lack of empirical evidence of the threat doctrine, but the politically correct fear that identifying shariah as the enemy threat doctrine will somehow make hundreds of millions of "moderate" Muslims go "radical" and join the jihad, either in body or in spirit via aid and comfort. Ergo, we live in a P.C.-fear mode, ever mindful of the threat from "radicalized" "moderate" Muslims.

All of this came to an end yesterday, September 15, 2010, with the publication of The Shariah Threat To America[/b], published under the auspices of the Center for Security Policy, the Washington, D.C.-based think tank founded in 1988 and headed by Frank Gaffney. Mr. Gaffney was acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy, the senior position in the Defense Department with responsibility for policies involving nuclear forces, arms control, and U.S.-European defense relations, under President Reagan.

The book-length analysis of shariah as the enemy threat doctrine, subtitled An Exercise in Competitive Analysis: Report of Team 'B' II, is modeled after the 1976 document known as the "Team B Report," which was the original "exercise in competitive analysis" by CIA outsiders who challenged the then-prevailing official U.S. government intelligence estimates of the intentions and offensive capabilities of the Soviet Union and the policy known as "détente" that such estimates ostensibly justified.

Quite simply, the 2010 version of Team B's competitive analysis challenges the politically correct dogma dominating our defense, law enforcement, and intelligence establishment elites. To wit, the terrorism conducted throughout the world against the U.S. and its allies has nothing to do with Islam, and to the extent it does, it is an absolute perversion of extant and authoritative Islamic law and doctrine. As with many dogmatic positions, very little substantive analysis of the empirical evidence supports this politically correct narrative myth, which nine years after 9/11 continues to dominate and blind those in charge of our national defense from knowing who our enemies are and, even more importantly, why they have aligned against us in a global war of terror.

The key findings of the Team 'B' II Report are as follows:

The United States is under attack by foes who are openly animated by what is known in Islam as shariah (Islamic law).
Shariah is based on the Quran, hadiths (sayings of Mohammed), and agreed interpretations. It commands Muslims to carry out jihad (holy war) indefinitely until all of the dar al-harb (i.e., the House of War, where shariah is not enforced) is brought under the domination of dar al-Islam (the House of Islam -- or literally, the House of Submission, where shariah is enforced).
Shariah dictates that non-Muslims be given three choices: convert to Islam and conform to shariah, submit as second-class citizens (dhimmis), or be killed. Not all classes are given the second option.
Both Islamic terrorism and pre-violent "civilization jihad" (popularly referred to as "stealth jihad") are commanded by shariah. That is not the view of only "extremists" and "fringe" elements "hijacking the religion," but of many authorities of Islam widely recognized as mainstream and drawing upon orthodox texts, interpretations, and practices of the faith.
The Muslim Brotherhood is the font of modern Islamic jihad. It is dedicated to the same global supremacist objectives as those (like al-Qaeda and the Taliban) who share its adherence to shariah but who believe that violent jihad is more likely to more quickly produce the common goal of a global caliphate.
The Brotherhood's internal documents make clear that civilization jihad is subversion waged by stealth instead of violence only until such time as Muslims are powerful enough to progress to violent jihad for the final conquest.
Those who work to insinuate shariah into the United States intend to subvert and replace the Constitution (itself a violation of Article VI) because, according to shariah, freedom of religion, other civil liberties enshrined in the Constitution, and the rule of man-made law are incompatible with Islam (which means "submission").
The shariah-adherent enemy prioritizes "information warfare," manifested in American society as political warfare, psychological warfare, influence operations, and subversion of our foundational institutions. Our government structure fails to recognize this strategy because it is focused so exclusively on kinetic attacks. As a result, the United States remains crippled in its inability to engage this enemy effectively on his primary battlefield.
The Brotherhood exploits the atmosphere of intimidation created by Islamic terrorists, thus inculcating in the West a perceived need for "outreach" to the "Muslim community," which, in turn, opens up opportunities to pursue a campaign of stealthy infiltration into American and other Western societies. The combined effect of such "civilization jihad" and jihadism of the violent kind may prove to be considerably more dangerous for this country and other Western societies than violent jihad alone.
The Brotherhood has succeeded in penetrating our educational, legal, and political systems, as well as top levels of government, intelligence, the media, and U.S. military, virtually paralyzing our ability to respond effectively.
Muslim Brotherhood organizations conduct outreach to the government, law enforcement, media, religious community, and others for one reason: to subvert them in furtherance of their objective, which is implementation of Islamic Law.
An informed and determined counter-strategy to defend the Constitution from shariah can yet succeed -- provided it is undertaken in the prompt, timely, and comprehensive manner recommended by Team B II.


From the "Sharia: Threat to America" Report -
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/ ... 142010.pdf (177 pages)

pritchet1
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by pritchet1 »

Thomas Lifson posted this on "American Thinker";

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... orced.html
The video was taken inside the Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center - Boston's controversial Saudi-funded mega-mosque - during a Wellesley Middle School social studies trip to the mosque, ostensibly taken to learn about the history of Islam first-hand. Yet the video reveals that the students are being blatantly mis-educated about Islam. A mosque spokesperson is seen teaching the children that in Mohammed's 7th century Arabia women were allowed to vote, while in America women only gained that right a hundred years ago. This seems to be an increasingly recurring theme in American schools - the denigration of western civilization and the glorification of Islamic history and values. In fact, just recently, the American Textbook Council revealed that the New York State high school regents exam whitewashes the atrocities that occurred during the imperialistic Islamic conquest of Christian Byzantium, Persia, the African continent, and the Indian subcontinent, even as it demonizes European colonialism in South America.

The mosque spokesperson also taught the students that the only meaning of Jihad in Islam is a personal spiritual struggle, and that Jihad has historically had no relationship with holy war. As far as we know, the school has not corrected these false lessons.

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AussieOi
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by AussieOi »

tell me. do you believe god is moving you in being a voice of warning against "true" Islam?

pritchet1
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by pritchet1 »

Nope. It just happens that when I was younger, I actually believed Allah and God were the same. I know better today. Today I know beyond doubt that Allah is the Father of Lies.

I also know that Shari'a Law is a system that destroys Freedom and Liberty and takes away any semblance of "equality" from women. It is also totally and completely at odds with the Constitution. And anybody who professes it is a Traitor to Liberty.

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AussieOi
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by AussieOi »

pritchet1 wrote:Nope. It just happens that when I was younger, I actually believed Allah and God were the same. I know better today. Today I know beyond doubt that Allah is the Father of Lies.

I also know that Shari'a Law is a system that destroys Freedom and Liberty and takes away any semblance of "equality" from women. It is also totally and completely at odds with the Constitution. And anybody who professes it is a Traitor to Liberty.

Sounds like an article of faith
Yet our dear leaders say otherwise about Islam
You continue to duck the questions I posed to you over at this thread about ISlam

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 0&p=149519

Starting new thread posting this kind of stuff isn't helping much.

So tell me. WHo do you believe when it comes to Islam?
This guy- see below- or the President of the Church?

Israel Export Development Co., Ltd., as an entrepreneurial policy tool to initiate radical free market reforms in Israel. Working along side fellow board members and shareholders such as Robert Tishman, Jerry Speyer, Larry Silverstein, Lawrence Tisch, Eugene Grant and Sy Syms, David Yerushalmi was appointed the company's CEO and Chairman.

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AussieOi
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by AussieOi »

pritchet1 wrote:The best article so far on Shari'a Law, written by David Yerushalmi;
LMAO

Is this like posting "The best article so far on Mormonism, written by Ed Dekker and the Southern Baptist convention"

Your guy is a zealot

You are either really simple, or malicious. I don't know if you are clever enough to be malicious

----------------------


House Republicans Pal Around with anti-Muslim, anti-Black racist David Yerushalmi
Posted on September 17, 2010
by Alex Kane| Leave a comment
It should come as no surprise that elected officials are aiding and
abetting anti-Muslim sentiment in the U.S., especially with mid-term elections nearby. But it was still a little shocking to read Think Progress national security blogger Matt Duss’ post on a newly released report titled “Sharia: The Threat to America.”

Duss writes that the report, authored by the neoconservative Center for Security Policy, was presented to Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) and Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-MI). Here’s the slightly shocking part: also attending the event Duss reported on was David Yerushalmi, the general counsel for the Center for Security Policy.

So just who is this Yerushalmi fellow that Republican politicians were palling around with?

Yerushalmi has been aptly described as a “Jewish fascist” by blogger Richard Silverstein. As Silverstein highlighted in August 2007, Yerushalmi has said:

One must admit readily that the radical liberal Jew is a fact of the West and a destructive one…Indeed, Jews in the main have turned their backs on the belief in G-d and His commandments as a book of laws for a particular and chosen people…What interest does America have in a strong Israel? If your answer is democracy in a liberal or western sense, know you have sided with the Palestinians of Hamas.

Yerushalmi was a member of the Stop the Madrassa Coalition, which was instrumental in the anti-Arab, anti-Muslim smear campaign that brought down Debbie Almontaser, the founding principal of Khalil Gibran International Academy, a dual-language Arabic school in Brooklyn. He has followed his Islamophobic buddies Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer in joining in their war against the Muslim community center near Ground Zero, and is an attorney with the so-called American Freedom Defense Initiative, which is run by Geller and Spencer.

That’s not even the worst part. Charles Johnson, the blogger at the formerly right-wing, hawkish website Little Green Footballs who “parted ways with the right” for, in part, its “Anti-Islamic bigotry that goes far beyond simply criticizing radical Islam, into support for fascism, violence, and genocide (see: Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, etc.),” has the rundown on Yerushalmi:

This is a good time for some background information on Pamela Geller’s associate David Yerushalmi, who is an advocate for criminalizing Islam itself and imposing 20-year sentences on practicing Muslims. Yes, really.

He’s not simply anti-Muslim, though; Yerushalmi also wrote a now-infamous article titled “On Race: A Tentative Discussion, Part II,” in which he advocated a return to a pre-Bill of Rights Constitution, and the restriction of voting rights to white male land-owners. Again … yes, really.

Here’s a lengthy article at Talk To Action on the bizarre views and causes of David Yerushalmi: Anti-Semitic White-Supremacist Orthodox Jew Tries To Ban Islam In US.

Yerushalmi has deleted as much evidence of the “On Race” article as he could; he removed it from the Internet Archive and the Google cache, and put his entire website behind a registration wall. But here’s a PDF that contains the full article, and it’s as ugly and twisted a piece of racism as anything I’ve ever seen. Yerushalmi opens by calling Islam “an evil religion,” and “blacks … the most murderous of peoples.”

A quote:

“There is a reason the founding fathers did not give women or black slaves the right to vote. You might not agree or like the idea but this country’s founders, otherwise held in the highest esteem for their understanding of human nature and its affect on political society, certainly took it seriously. Why is that? Were they so flawed in their political reckonings that they manhandled the most important aspect of a free society – the vote? If the vote counts for so much in a free and liberal democracy as we ‘know’ it today, why did they limit the vote so dramatically?”

So there you have it: House Republicans are openly associating themselves with a “Jewish fascist” who has called “blacks…the most murderous of peoples” and advocates for the criminalization of Islam.

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AussieOi
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Re: Shari'a Law

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pritchet1 wrote: I also know that Shari'a Law is a system that destroys Freedom and Liberty and takes away any semblance of "equality" from women. It is also totally and completely at odds with the Constitution. And anybody who professes it is a Traitor to Liberty.

The more i read of this finklestein kid, ahem, Yerushalmi, the more i have to laugh

You really didn't pick a good nutjob to perpetuate your prejudice Pritchet

Have you read what this guy wants?

Yerushalmi wrote anarticle titled “On Race: A Tentative Discussion, Part II,” in which he advocated a return to a pre-Bill of Rights Constitution, and the restriction of voting rights to white male land-owners.

A quote:

“There is a reason the founding fathers did not give women or black slaves the right to vote.


ANyone who pushes hate against Islam and peddles dribble from nazi's like this guy is a traitor to freedom

Now go back and answer those 2 questions:

Do you think the church was referring to the Koran here or just making a general statement about people burning actual revelation from god which may or may not refer to the Koran?

Ammon. And Lamoni
lamoni said "the great spirit"
why do you think Ammon said "this is god", when it wasn't? god is not_a_spirit. The Lamanite god there was no less god than Allah is to Moslems
who was Lamoni worshipping do you think?

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Mark
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by Mark »

AussieOi wrote:
pritchet1 wrote: I also know that Shari'a Law is a system that destroys Freedom and Liberty and takes away any semblance of "equality" from women. It is also totally and completely at odds with the Constitution. And anybody who professes it is a Traitor to Liberty.

The more i read of this finklestein kid, ahem, Yerushalmi, the more i have to laugh

You really didn't pick a good nutjob to perpetuate your prejudice Pritchet

Have you read what this guy wants?

Yerushalmi wrote anarticle titled “On Race: A Tentative Discussion, Part II,” in which he advocated a return to a pre-Bill of Rights Constitution, and the restriction of voting rights to white male land-owners.

A quote:

“There is a reason the founding fathers did not give women or black slaves the right to vote.


ANyone who pushes hate against Islam and peddles dribble from nazi's like this guy is a traitor to freedom

Now go back and answer those 2 questions:

Do you think the church was referring to the Koran here or just making a general statement about people burning actual revelation from god which may or may not refer to the Koran?

Ammon. And Lamoni
lamoni said "the great spirit"
why do you think Ammon said "this is god", when it wasn't? god is not_a_spirit. The Lamanite god there was no less god than Allah is to Moslems
who was Lamoni worshipping do you think?

I really have to wonder if you even understand what Shari'a law really teaches Aussie. You seem totally clueless of its basic tenants. What is your understanding of those tenants? Can you really defend Shari'a on an LDS forum with a straight face??

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AussieOi
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by AussieOi »

yawn

mark comes late to the conversation...misses the point

Hey Mark, why don't you defend all that Old testament stuff about killing people who walk 20 metres on the Sabbath etc.

I also didn't know that Sharia law was a 100% literal taking from the Koran

All Muslims believe Sharia is God's law, but differ as to what exactly it entails. Modernists, traditionalists and fundamentalists all hold different views of Sharia, as do followers to different schools of Islamic thought and education. Different countries and cultures have varying interpretations of Sharia as well. We have plenty of Moslems in Oz who have long beards but they dont seem to be coming for me.

I notice lots of people hold different views on Mormonism.

Why don't we judge Mormonisn by the followers of its holy books? Do you think Mormonism should be judged according to the practices of Polygamists like Warren Jeffs or the Temple Lot compound?

Why don't we judge Judaism and Christianity by the followers of its holy books and the texts themselves.
Why don't we look at just 1 book alone, the book of the Law. That would make sense wouldn't it?

Deuteronomy

1. "If thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods ... ye shall surely perish." 8:19-20
2. "The blood of sacrifices shall be poured out ... and thou shalt eat the flesh." 12:27
3. Prophets and dreamers are to be executed if they say or dream the wrong things. 13:1-5
4. If your brother, son, daughter, wife, or friend tries to get you to worship another god, "thou shalt surely kill him, thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death." 13:6-10
5. If you hear of a city where another god is worshiped, then destroy everyone in the city (even the cattle) and burn it down. 13:12-16
6. Kill everyone who has religious beliefs that are different from your own. 17:2-7
7. Anyone who will not listen to a priest or a judge must be executed. 17:12-13
8. False prophets are to be (you guessed it) executed. How do you know who is a false prophet? By whether or not their predictions come true. 18:20
9. A murderer is to be killed by "the avenger of blood," which is the victim's nearest relative. "And thine eye shall not pity" them. 19:11-13
10. False witnesses are to be execucuted. 19:18-19
11. In the cities that god "delivers into thine hands" you must kill all the males (including old men, boys, and babies) with "the edge of the sword .... But the women ... shalt thou take unto yourself." 20:13
12. "But of the cities ... which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth." Kill the old men and women, the sick and the dying, the blind and the lame, pregnant mothers, nursing mothers, infants, toddlers, and babies. 20:16
13. If you find a dead body and don't know the cause of death, then get all the elders together, cut off the head of a heifer, wash your hands over its body, and say our hands have not shed this blood. 21:1-8
14. If you have a "stubborn and rebellious son," then you and the other men in your neighborhood "shall stone him with stones that he die." 21:18-21
15. Hang on trees the bodies of those who are "accursed of God." 21:22
16. If a man marries, then decides that he hates his wife, he can claim she wasn't a virgin when they were married. If her father can't produce the "tokens of her virginity" (bloody sheets), then the woman is to be stoned to death at her father's doorstep. 22:13-21
17. But if he can he gets 100 sheckels of silver from the man 22:13-21
18. "If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die." 22:22
19. If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, then "the men of the city shall stone her to death." 22:23-24


Now, what part of Sharia law do you find repulsive?

Fiannan
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by Fiannan »

I have often wondered why a religion such as Islam has been pounding at teh gates of Christianity since its inception. Then I thought, perhaps God's laws are not based on the pseudo-socialistic notions put forth for centuries by those professing Christianity -- that competition is a sin or that the highest order is harmony and being satisfied.
The Parable of the Talents makes it clear that God's ways are based on competition, striving for perfection and to use what we have been given (including our time) and magnify our place in the universe. Those that don't will have whatever they were given taken away and given to those who did not. Read the parable again for yourselves.
Christianity had grown to a state of decadence when Mohammed showed up. Maybe Islam has been allowed to compete with Christianity just to keep it on its toes and strive for something better.
Of course, today most Christians, including Mormons, are as secular humanistic as people who called themselves secular humanists in the 1930s. The standard has shifted. People in the world were more conservative in 1930 than most Mormons are today. However, those "of the world" are now far more decadent -- it is just that if we compare ourselves to them we look really "peculiar." It would be as if we were an obese guy pointing to an obese guy smokiing a cigarette and saying, "Look at that guy, doesn't her realize that he is killing himself with that habit?" Maybe Islam is like unto an athletic person coming over to both the fat men's wives and saying, "You really want to be with those losers?" Islam is gaining ground -- and it may be less due to their message as it is to the weakness of today's Christians.

pritchet1
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Re: Shari'a Law

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Islam is not a religion. It uses religion to take control of people's lives by the sword or by coercion. The tenets of both Islam and Naziism are the same, ergo Islam is Nazism = Lucifer's Plan.

"By their Fruits"
Now, what part of Sharia law do you find repulsive?
This has already been amply responded to on other threads.

What do you find attractive in Shari'a Law that you feel that you need to defend it and literally be a devil's advocate, Aussie?

pritchet1
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More "fruits" picked by Pamela Geller -

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/ ... he_ra.html
The New Jersey Record reported that Rauf was sued for mortgage fraud in 2008 and settled the suit in June of that year. The suit reveals that Rauf owns two apartment buildings, one of which has been vacant since a fire broke out there -- a year after Rauf ignored citations for twelve different fire code violations.

That's not all. It has also recently come to light that Rauf and his wife, Daisy "the Con" Khan, listed their apartment as a mosque in order to conduct what amounts to tax fraud. Rauf was able to obtain tax-exempt status for his Muslim organization by deceiving the Internal Revenue Service: he told them that five hundred Muslims met regularly for worship at a "mosque" that was actually a tiny one-bedroom apartment (also listed as Daisy's residence). Rauf sought "church status" -- an official IRS term for a house of worship of any religion (though stealth Rauf, I am sure, is working the feds to change that term) -- for his organization, the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA), and the clueless feds granted the request.

Gaining "church status" means much more than just that your organization doesn't have to pay taxes. It also means that you have very little accountability about how you spend your money.

Is New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg still kissing the backside of this "bridge-builder"?

And that's not all that's unsavory about the money that's pouring into the building of the mega-mosque and the people connected with this scheme. Rauf's thug developer in the project to build an Islamic supremacist mega-mosque on Ground Zero, Sharif El-Gamal, has a rap sheet a mile long. He recently wrote that "when you beat up someone physically you get exercise & stress relief," and it seems clear that he spoke from experience. And his financier, Hisham Elzanaty, was a large funder of Hamas (exposed in the Holy Land Foundation jihad terror funding trial) while defrauding Medicare out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Tell me again: where is this thug getting 125 million dollars? El-Gamal is now being evicted for non-payment of rent for his SoHo office.

Meanwhile, Rauf continues to be open about his support for Sharia. This week he made this wild and Islamic supremacist claim: "90% of Sharia law is fully compatible -- not only compatible -- it's consistent or compatible with American constitutional law and American laws. The areas of difference are small and minor."

The objective of the stealth jihadists and the Muslim Brotherhood proxies in the U.S. (CAIR, ISNA, ICNA, MAS, MSA, et al.) is to impose Islam and Sharia on the U.S., and so it is with Ground Zero Mosque Imam Rauf.

Rauf is mainstreaming the Sharia and the jihad ideology. And in suggesting that those of us defending American freedom and opposing his Ground Zero mosque are "extremists," he is trying to place 70% of Americans squarely on the same moral playing field as the Muslim terrorists who flew planes into buildings and have since committed close to 20,000 Islamic attacks of violent jihad across the world. The media and government fawning all over this subversive imam as he does this shows just how deeply we have been infiltrated by the enemy.

Make no mistake: Rauf did this. Rauf created this maelstrom over the Ground Zero mosque. Rauf created this divisiveness. Rauf created this fight, and he is loving every minute of it. It's all Islam, all the time. He could have done the decent thing months ago and shown some modicum of human compassion by moving the mosque. He is incapable of that, and everybody knows it.

pritchet1
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by pritchet1 »

Aussie;

If you do not know "Taqiyya" when you see it, look it up, okay?

pritchet1
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Re: Shari'a Law

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Can you imagine?
All of us together have a tremendous task in front of us if we are to save this nation. Can you imagine if we had suffered from today’s political correctness in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor and if instead of Roosevelt’s “Day of Infamy” speech Americans heard the following over their radios:

“As your President I am here to tell you that we are not at war with Japan and will never be at war with Japan. They are a nation and a people of peace. In fact, we have many loyal Japanese citizens right here among us and that is all the more reason for us not to engage in a war with Japan. To those of you who lost loved ones in the attack on Pearl Harbor, I urge you to understand that this was not the action of the nation of Japan and its peace-loving people but the action of a small minority of radical militarists who have “hijacked” the government of Japan.”

pritchet1
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Re: Shari'a Law

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"Compatibility" with the Constitution, right?

http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com ... -with.html
IF "90% of Sharia law is consistent or compatible with American constitutional law and American laws, then American law and the Constitution must sanction:

Discrimination against persons based on gender (i.e., women) (violates 14th Amendment-Equal Protection)
-----Reduction of the weight of a women's testimony in a court of law to 1/2 that of a male's; (violates 5th & 14th Amendment right to due process of law)
-----Denial of the right of women to drive a car or hold a job; (violates 14th Amendment equal protection; 5th Amendment due process)
-----Murder of a woman for being the victim of a rape; (violates 8th Amendment-cruel & unusual; 6th Amendment-right to trial by jury of PEERS; illegal in all States);
-----Murder of a wife or relative to save a male's "honor;" (Islamic honor killing) Illegal in all States
---- Child abuse---Sexual intercourse with children (child brides for Muslim adult males); Illegal in all States
Beheading, stoning or other murder of homosexuals; (violates 8th Amendment-cruel & unusual; Illegal in all States)
The right to mutilate the losing party in court proceedings as compensation for injuries, (an eye for an eye); (8th Amendment-cruel & unusual; illegal in all States)
Strict segregation of the sexes--imprisonment or flogging for the slightest violation (violates 1st Amendment-right of association; 8th Amendment)
Execution of "infidels" merely because they do not join Islam; (violates 1st Amendment-freedom of religion; illegal in all States)
Imprisonment for preaching Christianity; (violates 1st Amendment; violates all State Constitutions);
Imprisonment for expressing criticism of the government, or of Islam. (violates 1st Amendment; violates all State constitutions)
But most flagrantly, sharia law imposes governmental support of Islam above and over any other religion (violates 1st Amendment--freedom of religion; separation of church & state)

So much for the "compatibility" of Sharia law & the U.S. Constitution & the American legal system. Every American needs to learn the meaning of the word "taqqiya"-- the practice of deception to advance the cult of islam. Rauf is a master of taqquiya.
Last edited by pritchet1 on September 17th, 2010, 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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AussieOi
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Re: Shari'a Law

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pritchet1 wrote:Islam is always at war with all things non-Muslim. The QUR'AN was written by one person who led a tyrannical life. Having read it, I do not see it as being at all "Holy" or scripture any more than I see Lucifer's Bible being scripture.


SALT LAKE CITY 8 September 2010 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, through a spokesman, issued the following statement today in response to news media inquiries:
“A key tenet of our faith is to accord everyone the freedom to worship as they choose. It is regrettable that anyone would regard the burning of any scriptural text as a legitimate form of protest or disagreement.”
--------------------

okay, im not trying to catch you out here
i am curious. do you think the church was referring to the Koran here or just making a general statement about people burning actual revelation from god which may or may not refer to the Koran?




pritchet1 wrote:And to Aussie, yes I do believe the God we worship is not the same god that Muslims pray to. At one time I did. I was wrong then. I am not wrong now. :wink:


you know Ammon. And Lamoni
how lamoni said "the great spirit"
why do you think Ammon said "this is god", when it wasn't? god is not_a_spirit.
who was Lamoni worshipping do you think?

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Mark
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by Mark »

pritchet1 wrote:"Compatibility" with the Constitution, right?
IF "90% of Sharia law is consistent or compatible with American constitutional law and American laws, then American law and the Constitution must sanction:

Discrimination against persons based on gender (i.e., women) (violates 14th Amendment-Equal Protection)
-----Reduction of the weight of a women's testimony in a court of law to 1/2 that of a male's; (violates 5th & 14th Amendment right to due process of law)
-----Denial of the right of women to drive a car or hold a job; (violates 14th Amendment equal protection; 5th Amendment due process)
-----Murder of a woman for being the victim of a rape; (violates 8th Amendment-cruel & unusual; 6th Amendment-right to trial by jury of PEERS; illegal in all States);
-----Murder of a wife or relative to save a male's "honor;" (Islamic honor killing) Illegal in all States
---- Child abuse---Sexual intercourse with children (child brides for Muslim adult males); Illegal in all States
Beheading, stoning or other murder of homosexuals; (violates 8th Amendment-cruel & unusual; Illegal in all States)
The right to mutilate the losing party in court proceedings as compensation for injuries, (an eye for an eye); (8th Amendment-cruel & unusual; illegal in all States)
Strict segregation of the sexes--imprisonment or flogging for the slightest violation (violates 1st Amendment-right of association; 8th Amendment)
Execution of "infidels" merely because they do not join Islam; (violates 1st Amendment-freedom of religion; illegal in all States)
Imprisonment for preaching Christianity; (violates 1st Amendment; violates all State Constitutions);
Imprisonment for expressing criticism of the government, or of Islam. (violates 1st Amendment; violates all State constitutions)
But most flagrantly, sharia law imposes governmental support of Islam above and over any other religion (violates 1st Amendment--freedom of religion; separation of church & state)

So much for the "compatibility" of Sharia law & the U.S. Constitution & the American legal system. Every American needs to learn the meaning of the word "taqqiya"-- the practice of deception to advance the cult of islam. Rauf is a master of taqquiya.

Come on now Aussie. Step up to the plate and defend Shari'a law in light of what its tenants teach. Quit sidestepping the issue here and tell us all that you see nothing wrong with this Satanic form of abuse known as Shari'a law. You are trying to defend the indefensible. :roll:

pritchet1
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by pritchet1 »

Aussie;
do you think the church was referring to the Koran here or just making a general statement about people burning actual revelation from god which may or may not refer to the Koran?
General statement only. The Qur'an is the work of one man inspired by Satan, a man who also was a sexual pervert, pedophile, a murderer, a totalitarian dictator and tyrant and self-professed "prophet".

why do you think Ammon said "this is god", when it wasn't? god is not_a_spirit.
who was Lamoni worshipping do you think?
Read Cleon Skousen's work on the topic in his "Hidden Treasures from the Book of Mormon" series, Volume 2, Alma Chapter 18.

Lamoni believed Ammon was the Great Spirit, until he was taught correct principles. You may want to re-read the Book of Mormon. :idea:

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Original_Intent
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by Original_Intent »

Somebody's Bible must read "Blessed be the warmongers".

:(

The vast majority of all religions just want to be left to worship God according to the dictates of their own consciences.

When I refer to the vast majority, I am referring to followers of that religion. Most people just want to be left alone. Sadly, each religion has it's radical warmongers who seek to stir up strife and hatred. It's clear that Mormonism is included in that, and some of them even post on these forums.

pritchet1
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by pritchet1 »

http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/0 ... stitution/
Sharia Law and the U.S. Constitution
[Update I: I have streamlined the following post to be easily readable to the average layman, but informative enough for a lawyer or law professor to learn a bit more on the similarities and differences between Sharia and U.S. Law]

Is Sharia compatible with the U.S. Constitution?

The simple answer is of course “no”.

But lets take a look at some aspects of Sharia Law and where it may or may not conflict with the U.S. Constitution. (For disclosure I am not a lawyer nor a legal expert in Sharia or U.S. Law.)

First, what is Sharia?

Wikipedia states Sharia refers to the sacred law of Islam. All Muslims believe Sharia is God’s law, but they have differences between themselves as to exactly what it entails. Which will be difficult to discern what to apply when, but we’ll labor along for the sake of discussion.

In Western countries, where Muslim immigration is more recent, Muslim minorities have introduced Sharia family law, for use in their own disputes. Attempts to impose Sharia have been accompanied by controversy, violence, and even warfare (Second Sudanese Civil War).

The recent incidents at the Arab International Festival have reinforced the poor image of Sharia inside the United States and its incompatibility with American culture and law.

The following is a truncated version with a couple of modifications (eliminating repetitious ibids and links) of multiple Wikipedia entries [with my comments]:

Legal and Court Proceedings:

Wikipedia states that Sharia judicial proceedings have significant differences with other legal traditions, including those in both common law and civil law.

1. Sharia courts do not generally employ lawyers; plaintiffs and defendants represent themselves.

2. Trials are conducted solely by the judge, and there is no jury system.

3. There is no pre-trial discovery process, no cross-examination of witnesses, and no penalty of perjury (on the assumption that no witness would thus endanger his soul) Unlike common law, judges’ verdicts do not set binding precedents under the principle of stare decisis and unlike civil law, Sharia does not utilize formally codified statutes (these were first introduced only in the late 19th century during the decline of the Ottoman Empire, cf. mecelle).

4. Instead of precedents and codes, Sharia relies on medieval jurist’s manuals and collections of non-binding legal opinions, or fatwas, issued by religious scholars (ulama, particularly a mufti); these can be made binding for a particular case at the discretion of a judge.

5. Sharia courts’ rules of evidence also maintain a distinctive custom of prioritizing oral testimony and excluding written and documentary evidence (including forensic and circumstantial evidence), on the basis that it could be tampered with or forged.

6. A confession, an oath, or the oral testimony of a witness are the only evidence admissible in a Sharia court, written evidence is only admissible with the attestations of multiple, witnesses deemed reliable by the judge, i.e. notaries.

7. Testimony must be from at least two witnesses, and preferably free Muslim male witnesses, who are not related parties and who are of sound mind and reliable character; testimony to establish the crime of adultery, or zina must be from four direct witnesses.

8. Forensic evidence (i.e. fingerprints, ballistics, blood samples, DNA etc.) and other circumstantial evidence is likewise rejected in hudud cases in favor of eyewitnesses, a practice which can cause severe difficulties for women plaintiffs in rape cases.

9. Testimony from women is given only half the weight of men [in most sources outside of Wikipedia Sharia states that a woman's testimony only carries the weight of 1/4th of a man's], and testimony from non-Muslims may be excluded altogether (if against a Muslim).

10. In lieu of written evidence, oaths are accorded much greater weight; rather than being used simply to guarantee the truth of ensuing testimony, they are themselves used as evidence.

11. Plaintiffs lacking other evidence to support their claims may demand that defendants take an oath swearing their innocence, refusal thereof can result in a verdict for the plaintiff.

12. Sharia courts, with their tradition of pro se representation, simple rules of evidence, and absence of appeals courts, prosecutors, cross examination, complex documentary evidence and discovery proceedings, juries and voir dire proceedings, circumstantial evidence, forensics, case law, standardized codes, exclusionary rules, and most of the other infrastructure of civil and common law court systems, have as a result, comparatively informal and streamlined proceedings. [that's one way of putting it]

13. This can provide significant increases in speed and efficiency (at the cost of the safeguards provided in secular legal systems), and can be an advantage in jurisdictions where the general court system is slow or corrupt, and where few litigants can afford lawyers. (end Wikipedia)

This is not a concise review of the difference nor similarities between U.S. Law and Sharia. It is only meant to educate us on what Sharia law is in comparison to our legal system.

pritchet1
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by pritchet1 »

How much of the Book of Mormon discusses Government as related to our day? (About 1/3rd.)

Were we warned about Satan's Plan (such as Shari'a Law) and how to defend against it in our day? (Yes.)

http://www.chandlerswatch.com/2010/08/2 ... ose-buddy/

Do not be confused by the political false façade (Islam), masquerading as "religion" to take over competing governments.

Compare this to the Kingdom of Zion and a true theocracy under the returning Messiah.

pritchet1
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Posts: 3600

Re: Shari'a Law

Post by pritchet1 »

Louis Palme wrote;

http://doveworld.org/blog/the-united-st ... in-america
So, to better understand whether Sharia Law is desirable (or even legal) in the United States, it might be instructive to compare it with the US Constitution. This isn’t too difficult for the layman because the US Constitution is only 17 pages long, including its 27 amendments. Sharia Law is well-documented in the 1,200 page Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law, “The Reliance of the Traveler” by Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, and published in the United States by Amana Publications. While the original document dates to the late 14th Century, it has been updated in the 1990’s and bears the approval of the Fiqh Council of North America as well as the authoritative Al-Azhar Islamic Research Academy in Egypt. The introduction to this manual states, “The four Sunni schools of Islamic Law . . are identical in approximately 75 percent of the legal conclusions. . . [T]he authors of the present volume and their positions do represent the orthodox Muslim intellectual and spiritual heritage that has been the strength of the Community for over a thousand years . . to the present day.”

While this volume of Sharia Law is primarily about the religious practice of Islam, the 800 pages of the manual devoted to rules and regulations also include sections on Trade, Inheritance, Marriage (suitable partners, legal rights, custody), Divorce, and Justice which would fall under civil law in the United States. Those sections comprise 35% of the manual, and are among the most controversial because they impose draconian punishments, authorize jihad, and sanction discrimination on the basis of religion and gender.

The summary below highlights the serious disconnects between the provisions of the US Constitution and those of Sharia Law.

LEGISLATIVE POWERS

US Constitution

Article I - All legislative Powers shall be vested in the Congress.

Sharia Law

The source of legal rulings for all acts of those who are morally responsible is Allah. (a1.1) It is not a sin to comply with man-made laws that require buying auto insurance or having a photo ID because “the authorities are responsible for the sin, not the individual forced to comply.” (w42.3 and w50.4)

POWER TO DECLARE WAR

US Constitution

Section 8 – Powers of Congress include to levy taxes, to make laws, and to declare war.

Sharia Law

It is obligatory to obey the commands and interdictions of the caliph or his representative in everything that is lawful, even if he is unjust . . because the purpose of his authority is Islamic unity, which could not be realized if obeying him were not obligatory. (o25.5) The caliph or his representative have the duty of undertaking jihad if their territory borders on enemy lands, of dividing the spoils of battle, and of remitting a fifth for “deserving recipients.” (o25.9(8))

Jihad is obligatory for everyone when the enemy has surrounded the Muslims. (o9.3) It is permissible in jihad to cut down the enemy’s trees and destroy their dwellings. (o9.1)

PRESIDENT (CALIPH)

US Constitution

Article II, Section I -- Qualifications of a President – He must be a natural born citizen, thirty-five years old, and a resident for fourteen years. The President is elected by ballot by the people (via the Electors) and shall serve for no more than 2 four-year terms.

No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

Sharia Law

A caliph must be a Muslim, a non-slave, a male, of the Quraysh tribe, etc. (o25.0)

The Caliph appoints a group to select his successor among themselves. There is no a term of office. However, the caliphate of someone who seizes power is considered valid, even though his act of usurpation is disobedience, in view of the danger from anarchy and strife that would otherwise ensue. (o25.4(3))

(Note: The Islamic Caliphate was disbanded the Turkish Parliament in 1924.)

REMOVAL OF GOVERNMENT OFFICERS

US Constitution

Section 4 – The President and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from office if found guilty of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Sharia Law

(No provision for removal from office.)

LEGAL AUTHORITY

US Constitution

Article VI – This Constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made under it shall be the supreme law of the land, and judges in every state shall be bound by them.

Senators and Representatives, legislative officers, all executive and judicial officers both of the United States and the several states shall be bound by a Oath or Affirmation to support the Constitution.

Sharia Law

The source of legal rulings for all acts of those who are morally responsible is Allah. (a1.1)

CIVIL AND RELIGIOUS RIGHTS

US Constitution

Amendment 1 – Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or the press, or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for redress of grievances.

Sharia Law

Non-Muslims are obliged to comply with Islamic rules that pertain to the safety and indemnity of life, reputation, and property. Non-Muslims are forbidden to openly display wine or pork, recite their scriptures, or make a public display of feast days or funerals. Non-Muslims are forbidden to build new churches. A non-Muslim may not enter a mosque without permission. The protection for non-Muslims is withdrawn if a non-Muslim commits adultery with a Muslim woman or marries her, leads a Muslim away from Islam, kills a Muslim, or says anything derogatory about Allah, the Prophet, or Islam. (o11.5 through o11.10)

US Constitution

Amendment 2 – The right of people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Sharia Law

It is a condition that someone buying weapons be of a people who are not at war with Muslims. (k1.2(f))

Enormities (sins) include selling weapons to non-Muslims who will use them against us. (w52.1(192))

US Constitution

Amendment 3 – No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner prescribed by law.

Sharia Law

(Not covered.) However, the Pact of Omar (636 AD) imposed on Christians in Syria, “We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.”

US Constitution

Amendments 4 – 8 – These amendments prohibit unreasonable searches, require due process according to the law, provide for confrontation of witnesses, impose jury trial on all matters involving over $20, and prohibit excessive fines and cruel and unusual punishments. Amendment 14 provides for equal protection of the laws for all citizens.

Sharia Law

No testimony may be made by people who have lowly jobs, such as a street sweeper or a bath house attendant, or non-Muslim. (o24.2-3)

Testimony regarding fornication or sodomy requires four male eye-witnesses to the act. (o24.9)

A woman’s testimony is worth only half that of a man. (o24.10)

(There is no provision for a jury trial under Sharia Law.)

Cruel and unusual Islamic punishments include 1) stoning for adultery (o12.2); 2) scourging 40 lashes with hands, shoes, ends of clothes, or a whip for drunkenness (o16.3); 3) severing the right hand for theft of over $36 and the left foot for a repeat offense (o14.1); and 4) death for apostasy from Islam. (o8.2)

Indemnity for accidentally killing a male Muslim is 100 camels or 4,235 grams of gold. (Current value: $144,000.) Indemnity for killing a woman is half that of a man, for killing a Jew or a Christian is one-third of the indemnity paid for a Muslim. The indemnity paid for a killing Zoroastrian is one-fifteenth of that of a Muslim. The indemnity for causing a miscarriage is one slave. (o4.9)

There is no indemnity for a killing a non-Muslim at war with Muslims, an apostate, or someone sentenced to death by stoning. (o14.17)

Jews and Christians are subject to a “poll tax” not less than 1 dinar (Current value: $144) per adult male per year. No maximum is stipulated. (o11.4) This is a penalty for remaining in their ancestral religion instead of embracing the “religion of truth.” (o9.8)

A husband may beat a “rebellious” wife for 1) not allowing immediate sexual intercourse when he asks for it, at home, and if she can physically endure it; 2) answering him coldly; or 3) being averse when she was previously kind. (m5.1 and m10.12) The only limitation is that he may not break her bones, wound her, or cause bleeding.

US Constitution

Amendment 13 Slavery and involuntary servitude are abolished.

Sharia Law

The section on Slavery (k32.0) is not translated into English. The provisions remain in Arabic. The editor of “The Reliance of the Traveler” claims that these provisions are no longer applicable, yet they remain in there in the text of Sharia Law. Elsewhere, the manual states, “Originally the status of slave was simply the outcome of having been taken as a prisoner of war. A captive who could not buy his own freedom by means of ransom remained in the possession of the captor until he had earned his freedom by work or until he was granted liberty by his master.” (w13.1)

US Constitution

Amendment 21 repealed “prohibition,” thereby allowing manufacture, sale, and transport of alcoholic beverages.

Sharia Law

It is unlawful to sell grapes to someone who will make wine from them. (k4.9) “Allah cursed whoever drinks wine, gives it to others to drink, sells it, buys it, presses it for another, transports it, receives it, or eats its price.”

Enormities (sins) include drinking wine in any form or other intoxicant, even if only a drop as in medicine; pressing out the juice to make wine or other intoxicant; carrying it for purposes of drinking, or having it carried; serving it to others or having it served; selling it; buying it; having it bought or sold; consuming proceeds from selling it; or keeping wine or other intoxicant. (o16.6 and w52.1(350-361))

So, the next time someone suggests that we should be more understanding of Sharia Law, it would be fair to ask him/her what parts of our US Constitution would he/she be willing to abandon in order to accommodate Sharia Law.

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AussieOi
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Shari'a Law

Post by AussieOi »

pritchet1 wrote:Aussie;
do you think the church was referring to the Koran here or just making a general statement about people burning actual revelation from god which may or may not refer to the Koran?
General statement only. The Qur'an is the work of one man inspired by Satan, a man who also was a sexual pervert, pedophile, a murderer, a totalitarian dictator and tyrant and self-professed "prophet".
General? mate thats pathetic. you make our church out to be disengenous liars

SALT LAKE CITY 8 September 2010 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, through a spokesman, issued the following statement today in response to news media inquiries:
“A key tenet of our faith is to accord everyone the freedom to worship as they choose. It is regrettable that anyone would regard the burning of any scriptural text as a legitimate form of protest or disagreement.”

pritchet1 wrote:Aussie> why do you think Ammon said "this is god", when it wasn't? god is not_a_spirit.
who was Lamoni worshipping do you think?
Read Cleon Skousen's work on the topic in his "Hidden Treasures from the Book of Mormon" series, Volume 2, Alma Chapter 18.

Lamoni believed Ammon was the Great Spirit, until he was taught correct principles. You may want to re-read the Book of Mormon. :idea:[/quote]

So Ammon was a disengenous liar when he said "this is god"

mate, your scraping the barrel.
whats it like belonging to a religion where you have to readjust official statements from the church and words in scriptures to fit your prejudices against islam, ahem, militant prejudices.

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Mark
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Re: Shari'a Law

Post by Mark »

Original_Intent wrote:Somebody's Bible must read "Blessed be the warmongers".

:(

The vast majority of all religions just want to be left to worship God according to the dictates of their own consciences.

When I refer to the vast majority, I am referring to followers of that religion. Most people just want to be left alone. Sadly, each religion has it's radical warmongers who seek to stir up strife and hatred. It's clear that Mormonism is included in that, and some of them even post on these forums.

Who are you referring to here Bro? Who is seeking to stir up hatred and strife and advocating warmongering on this forum? Name names. If you are talking about Pritchett and myself because we continue to speak out against Satanic inspired laws like those found in Shari'a then I will take issue with that. You guys on this forum continue to say that the hidden things of darkness must be exposed and fought against. If Shari'a doesn't fit into these hidden things of darkness then I don't know what would. Look at many parts of Europe today. Many Islamic radicals are pushing to replace any form of democracy with Shari'a. Doesn't that concern people here in the slightest? These radicals do not just want to assimilate in with democratic society. They want to hijack it and rule with blood and horror over those who dare to question them. The threats are real. Ignore them at your peril.

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AussieOi
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Shari'a Law

Post by AussieOi »

pritchet1 wrote:Louis Palme wrote;

more yawn

seriously, whats the point of all these interpretations of the koran and mufti gaga?

i gave you Warren Jeffs, Christianity with say Catholicism and its in inquisition and the Book of Deuteronomy.

why dont you go find a moslem nutjob with an axe to grind to start pulling them apart?

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