"A Desolating Sickness"- Pornography

[Amore Vero]

I don't believe God would ask women to stay with a wicked man for 5 seconds if you or God can't for sure save him. (Now the last two paragraphs again seem to contradict your statements before about staying in a marriage no matter what, so I still don't understand your argument.)

So, it appears you believe in keeping marriage covenants to love your spouse for a little while & suffering abuse & adultery for maybe 10 years or so until the woman can't take it anymore & then divorcing. I don't understand why a woman would do that or where the Church teaches that. I don't believe God would ever ask, or have his leaders ask, a woman to suffer such things ever & especially not for nothing, for most who do these kinds of things never change in this life, they almost always just get worse & worse.

I believe God wants women to protect themselves & stand up to abuse or adultery on the very 1st offense. The Church teaches 'zero tolerance' for any form of abuse or adultery.

My belief again is that God would never ask women to stay & endure any abuse or adultery in any form or degree for even 10 minutes let alone 10 years, IF there is a way to safety, & especially IF the wife & God can't save him in the end, as you believe they can't.

And yes, I believe there is some form of abuse or adultery going on in 80+% of the marriages in the Church, but most women & men are in denial about it & ignoring it & don't seem to have the self worth & self respect to stand up to it & not tolerate it.

Can I ask why you don't believe in or want Unconditional True Love for & from a man? (And that does not mean having to endure any abuse or adultery from him.)

I don't want you to be hard on yourself for enduring abuse & adultery, the main reason you probably had to endure such was because in our world today, most leaders, civil & religious, don't understand abuse & adultery like they should & don't protect women & children from it as they should & could & is their #1 duty to do so.

[Amore Vero]

I don't believe God would ask women to stay with a wicked man for 5 seconds if you or God can't for sure save him. (Now the last two paragraphs again seem to contradict your statements before about staying in a marriage no matter what, so I still don't understand your argument.)

So, it appears you believe in keeping marriage covenants to love your spouse for a little while & suffering abuse & adultery for maybe 10 years or so until the woman can't take it anymore & then divorcing. I don't understand why a woman would do that or where the Church teaches that. I don't believe God would ever ask, or have his leaders ask, a woman to suffer such things ever & especially not for nothing, for most who do these kinds of things never change in this life, they almost always just get worse & worse.

I believe God wants women to protect themselves & stand up to abuse or adultery on the very 1st offense. The Church teaches 'zero tolerance' for any form of abuse or adultery.

My belief again is that God would never ask women to stay & endure any abuse or adultery in any form or degree for even 10 minutes let alone 10 years, IF there is a way to safety, & especially IF the wife & God can't save him in the end, as you believe they can't.

And yes, I believe there is some form of abuse or adultery going on in 80+% of the marriages in the Church, but most women & men are in denial about it & ignoring it & don't seem to have the self worth & self respect to stand up to it & not tolerate it.

Can I ask why you don't believe in or want Unconditional True Love for & from a man? (And that does not mean having to endure any abuse or adultery from him.)

I believe in doing all I can to work out my marriage and that's what I did.

I DO believe in and want unconditional true love for & from a man, (I don't know what gave you the idea that I don't) but not one who is abusive like my husband. If I had taken the time to get to know him better and had married him the way the Lord tells us to in the first place, I would have known of these issues and would not have married him in the first place. But since I made the mistake of getting into this marriage, I believe I had a responsibility to do everything I could to overcome those issues and save the marriage.

I still don't understand why it sounds like you are now advocating leaving marriages that are abusive, but in so many of your other posts, you claim we are supposed to stay married and wait into the eternities if necessary for them to repent and change. Your posts are contradictory.

I believe in True Love, without any conditions, meaning to never give up & never stop loving them & never breaking your covenants of faithfulnes to them by leaving the marriage & seeking another. But all that can be done from a safe distance if the spouse is abusive or adulterous, you don't have to stay living with them & endure abuse, to love them & stay faithful to them.

You say you believe in unconditional love, but you have limits, you want to find someone new. Unconditional means forever, no matter what they do. And even though you didn't marry your husband yet in the temple, there is still a way you can be married forever to him IF you really love him, unconditionally. There is a way, after he repents & he will some day. Eternal marriage is Unconditional marriage.

[buffalo_girl]

You say you believe in unconditional love, but you have limits, you want to find someone new. Unconditional means forever, no matter what they do. And even though you didn't marry your husband yet in the temple, there is still a way you can be married forever to him IF you really love him, unconditionally. There is a way, after he repents & he will some day. Eternal marriage is Unconditional marriage.

I'm sorry, HOW old are you? This sounds like the blissful imaginings of a 17 year-old who reads tons of slightly naughty romance novels.

Heavens! a girl could just run out and marry some bi-sexual rock star and spend eternity hoping for his reformation. No doubt love will endure even when his tattoos surrender to gravity, is suffering dementia from advanced AIDS which he passed on to you, looks like an animated cadaver, had sex with both your son and your daughter, and still loves Satan more than God.

There is Eternity to consider after all.

[Amore Vero]

You say you believe in unconditional love, but you have limits, you want to find someone new. Unconditional means forever, no matter what they do. And even though you didn't marry your husband yet in the temple, there is still a way you can be married forever to him IF you really love him, unconditionally. There is a way, after he repents & he will some day. Eternal marriage is Unconditional marriage.

I'm sorry, HOW old are you? This sounds like the blissful imaginings of a 17 year-old who reads tons of slightly naughty romance novels.

Heavens! a girl could just run out and marry some bi-sexual rock star and spend eternity hoping for his reformation. No doubt love will endure even when his tattoos surrender to gravity, is suffering dementia from advanced AIDS which he passed on to you, looks like an animated cadaver, had sex with both your son and your daughter, and still loves Satan more than God.

There is Eternity to consider after all.

Exactly, Eternity is what we need to consider. But as I said before, hardly no one believes in Unconditional True Love anymore, it's all foolishness & folly to them. And how sad, for they miss out on the most wonderful thing in life & all eternity.

[buffalo_girl]

Exactly, Eternity is what we need to consider. But as I said before, hardly no one believes in Unconditional True Love anymore, it's all foolishness & folly to them. And how sad, for they miss out on the most wonderful thing in life & all eternity.

If you are female, then you must be absolutely the most perfect person to practice polyandry.

Wishing you every success with your eternal project!

[AussieOi]

[Thank Heaven the church teaches otherwise, and the Lord wants us to move on and do what will actually bring us closer to him!

Hope you come out alright sis
On the one had I see Amores point in that if you can salvage something try hard as possible to.
But on the other no one deserves to be moving further away from the spirit and the hope of a temple marriage
your call, good luck



Amore, a point here
As I am sure Brigham and others (not that I can speak for them) said to wives left behind from hunsbands who walked away from the church once they arrived in the USA, you know, those women who were their 37th and 46th wife and all that, and those women who were sealed to these guys after they were dead and all that
“pfft- that’s not a marriage…THIS is a marriage”
What, we think that all these women were widows do we? Yeah right.
Why did early church leaders enter into polygamous relationships with women who WERE married to men who were still living?
Like I say, Sec 132 has a_lot_of context around it and the burnign of the printing press and JS's subsequent assassination

me glad i have happy wife

happy wife = happy life

[AussieOi]

I don't believe God would ask women to stay with a wicked man for 5 seconds if you or God can't for sure save him. (Now the last two paragraphs again seem to contradict your statements before about staying in a marriage no matter what, so I still don't understand your argument.)

So, it appears you believe in keeping marriage covenants to love your spouse for a little while & suffering abuse & adultery for maybe 10 years or so until the woman can't take it anymore & then divorcing. I don't understand why a woman would do that or where the Church teaches that. I don't believe God would ever ask, or have his leaders ask, a woman to suffer such things ever & especially not for nothing, for most who do these kinds of things never change in this life, they almost always just get worse & worse.

I believe God wants women to protect themselves & stand up to abuse or adultery on the very 1st offense. The Church teaches 'zero tolerance' for any form of abuse or adultery.

My belief again is that God would never ask women to stay & endure any abuse or adultery in any form or degree for even 10 minutes let alone 10 years, IF there is a way to safety, & especially IF the wife & God can't save him in the end, as you believe they can't.

And yes, I believe there is some form of abuse or adultery going on in 80+% of the marriages in the Church, but most women & men are in denial about it & ignoring it & don't seem to have the self worth & self respect to stand up to it & not tolerate it.

Can I ask why you don't believe in or want Unconditional True Love for & from a man? (And that does not mean having to endure any abuse or adultery from him.)

I believe in doing all I can to work out my marriage and that's what I did.

I DO believe in and want unconditional true love for & from a man, (I don't know what gave you the idea that I don't) but not one who is abusive like my husband. If I had taken the time to get to know him better and had married him the way the Lord tells us to in the first place, I would have known of these issues and would not have married him in the first place. But since I made the mistake of getting into this marriage, I believe I had a responsibility to do everything I could to overcome those issues and save the marriage.

I still don't understand why it sounds like you are now advocating leaving marriages that are abusive, but in so many of your other posts, you claim we are supposed to stay married and wait into the eternities if necessary for them to repent and change. Your posts are contradictory.

You sound like a great woman
When I read of such instances I am saddened by all the lovely people in this world who are suffering under various types of exploitation.
I don’t understand why people want to hurt other people, or infringe upon them
I don’t understand the mentality and psychology of your husband. My brain can’t think that way. Going to a strip club yeah I can think that. Watching porn yes, lying yeah. But oppression or forcing oneself upon a partner?
Why do people, why do we as a society get more out of getting our way than from seeing our spouses happy?
Equally I feel for the fella who does all for his wife but she doesn’t reciprocate and/ or freezes him out.
I read a book which changed me a great deal. I put my friends onto this one and it makes them happier and they get more sex too which also make s them happier
This isn’t the book. The book is by an LDS author, but this one is a summary of the same concept
http://www.outreachjamaica.org/pdf_file ... guages.pdf
how many marriages would be happier if partners knew they were expressing their love for one another but not “reading” it? I teach my mates to express their love in the language their wife is giving it. And to decode their wifes love equally. I found I wanted 5 but wasn’t getting it, my wife wanted 2 & 4 but I was trying to give 1 and 5 (read these 3 pages)
anyway, once we worked it out we both get more of what we want and adjust our ways of expressing love in the way that is better received. I happier, she happier.
Now I don’t say this in your instance. He sounds like a nasty piece of work
I say it in the context of why don’t people- when confronted with the need to change, want to? Especially when they love their partner.
Is it pride, anger, laziness, ignorance, selfishness? All of the above? I don’t know
Porn isn’t the naked women and the screen sex. It’s the attitude. Take away the computer and the attitude is there.
If there was no porn your husband would still probably have done much the same.
Of course it doesn’t help the degenerating mind in the meantime.



Take away the nasty experiences in your instance, in am also sad that I see brothers (some- few) similarly disrespect their wives.
Make no mistake the bulk of relationships I know of are devoted an tender, and those I have seen don’t entirely fall apart with acrimony and selfish expression such as yours. But why do people want to control other people I don’t understand that?
For what its worth I hope you had a helpful bishop. Most I’ve seen, some are good, some are next to useless. They / we just aren’t trained for this thing. And we call zealots to these missions with no real experience or training apart from a fundamentalist attitude and desire to save people. = dangerous
Too many sisters I know felt alone and like no one understood. All I know is that the lord does even if we might feel he’s nowhere to be found and we are entitled to happiness.

[AussieOi]

I have read a great deal on endocrinology as well as psychology and I have yet to run across any of this. Also, I would ask myself how working with sexual predators compares to making commentary on if a guy or girl looks at pornography while staying at a Marriot Hotel. Would that not be like having someone who works with people on death row discuss kids acting up when they are asked to do their chores?

I have no doubt that a positive chemical feedback exists when one views pornography. Research has shown that both men and women have dramatic increases in their testosterone levels during and shortly after viewing porn. One's endocrine system will also see an increase in the secretion of seratonin and other endorphins -- these are "feel good" chemicals that can actually counteract depression. So if all these healthy chemicals are produced then a person will feel a greater desire to get back to those healthy feelings I suppose. Yet permanent brain alterations? I am skeptical.

The answer to the problem of porn viewing? Well, from a purely bio-chemical standpoint maybe do things that produce these chemicals naturally -- like have more sex with your wife/husband as well as have a good exercise program. Sure beats therapy.

Oh, and one thing this makes me wonder about...if we see that regions with high religiosity search for porn more than other nations -- like Pakistan and Utah -- one could ask if the taboo of porn might actually cause a person to release more of these chemicals as it adds a dimension of fear (adrenaline) that one could get caught. That would be an interesting topic for a researcher to investigate. It would mean that the more we harp on this topic with our kids the more we set them up to gain a positive experience once they do happen across these sites.

I have no doubt that a positive chemical feedback exists when one views pornography. Research has shown that both men and women have dramatic increases in their testosterone levels during and shortly after viewing porn. One's endocrine system will also see an increase in the secretion of seratonin and other endorphins -- these are "feel good" chemicals that can actually counteract depression. So if all these healthy chemicals are produced then a person will feel a greater desire to get back to those healthy feelings I suppose. Yet permanent brain alterations? I am skeptical.

No, kids brains are developing, being wired

Too much of this stuff without context can wire them up incorrectly

Could be how kids who were abused end up repeating the cycle. Ditto wifebashers

Oh, and one thing this makes me wonder about...if we see that regions with high religiosity search for porn more than other nations -- like Pakistan and Utah -- one could ask if the taboo of porn might actually cause a person to release more of these chemicals as it adds a dimension of fear (adrenaline) that one could get caught. That would be an interesting topic for a researcher to investigate. It would mean that the more we harp on this topic with our kids the more we set them up to gain a positive experience once they do happen across these sites.

Ka-ching Ka-ching Ka-ching.

Bingo bingo bingo

Curiosity killed the cat

We spend allllllllll our time worrying about what comes in the front door we don’t watch the back door

We run the risk of being so prudish on our approach to banning anything to do with sex from our kids they grow up with a dysfunctional attitude to sex and intimacy. It is almost the complete opposite as overexposure to these images and objectification. Goodness im not saying expose kids to it, I am however saying the extreme to the opposite side can cause serious attitude issues in regards to sexual intimacy within marital relationships.

Telling our kids “ bad bad bad bad Bad, okay your married now you’re allowed to” really DOES mess people up.

This is another reason I harp on that porn is not the enemy (of course it is a HUGE enemy), rather it is the context we place the evil of it into, and how we teach our children about it and why to avoid it and the damage it can cause and has been caused in its production.

This is why I have no filter on my internet. It is better for me to have the cognitive thought that it is 1- simple-easy-enticing-click away. And I am not supervised.

But I have trained my mind that yeah, it would be great for sure. Yeah, I’d get a rush for sure, yeah, ti would fee, good………….temporarily. as would heroin and adultery.


I am stronger than if I had 55 filters protecting me

Cos what happens when I am interstate with the laptop without a filter, yeah, I haven’t trained myself not to look at it, and I can’t deal with the rush that’s saying “you can do it, its there, no one will know”

This is what 55 million people, the bulk of them Americans, go to vegas and end up with a hooker and go wild. This is why they believe what happens in vegas stays in vegas. Many live repressed lives at home and when confronted with it can’t control it, they simply haven’t been taught to.

This is a critical reason I am so overwhelmingly angry about Marriott hotels and (removed). Marriott enables this. It is a pusher. It puts it there in an anonymous hotel room and normalizes it. It says “the movie you watch won’t be on your bill”

This is why yes- we need to keep the world out of our homes, but we want to consider have we taught ourselves and children cognitive learning patterns to simply avoid the stuff when we don’t have TV in our homes, or when we ban radio. Or ban our kids from schools.

Apparently that approach works well for the Taliban.

[NoGreaterLove]

Jules
I have another friend who has been exposed to such behavior. I am so sorry for you. I wish you would have never been exposed to such behavior. It is wrong. Absolutely wrong.

Please forgive him and yourself (yourself for any bad decisions you may have made, if any). You will not begin healing until you forgive both yourself and him.

Just remember just because you forgive someone, does not mean you need to allow them to victimize you again.

I can testify that there are men who do not believe in such bad behavior, who will look upon you as a queen, a priestess, a child of God. These men will lift you up, support you in your righteous interests and allow you to become who you want to be. They will encourage you to shine! The parable of the talents tells of such men. This parable also tells of the ones who abuse their wives.

Pray to be led to these good men, for they do exist and if you keep God's commandments, you are worthy of them and they are worthy of you.

[buffalo_girl]

My first Melchizedek Priesthood holding husband of 10 years was a chronic adulterer. In a blessing given to him by a High Priest after a spell of disfellowshipment, my 'repentant' husband was told, "If you commit this sin one more time you will lose your soul."

Well, he did commit that sin, and from every indication I witnessed & experienced until I disappeared with our two sons with no forwarding address, he did indeed lose his soul. Possession is real, and dangerous beyond description to all within its sphere of influence.

Unrepented of, willfully committed sexual sins are second only to the shedding of innocent blood, and from my experience, only a hair's breadth from murder itself.

I asked one of the last times I saw him, "You are capable of murder, aren't you?"

"Yes," he replied. "But to destroy a body is nothing. To be able to destroy a person's soul is to have real power."

No doubt, that was the boasting of an entity which had taken up residence in his body.

When you find yourself on a railroad track with an engine bearing down on you, it's best to get off the track immediately. It has nothing to do with forgiveness or repentance. That can be sorted out later. My repentance according to Old Testament usage meant 'a change of mind' and unwavering action to follow.

[paper face]

No doubt, that was the boasting of an entity which had taken up residence in his body.

It only makes sense that possession is a major element of sin. If we are submitting to the Lord in our righteous doings, then the "opposition in all things" rule suggests nothing less than our allowing ourselves to be in thrall to the adversary and his demons in our sinful acts.

[Stephen]

On the original subject. I just wanted to say that yes...pornography is a desolating sickness that is desolating populations of people where no worthy people can be found...

and that of course...

There will also be sicknesses...actual plagues that kill so many people that whole cities are left desolate as the people die.

Multiple fulfillment's of the prophecy.

[Fiannan]

Have Church leaders, in recent years, asked us to boycott hotel chains, cable service providers and stores that sell, rent, or make available pornographic materials?

[Amore Vero]

Have Church leaders, in recent years, asked us to boycott hotel chains, cable service providers and stores that sell, rent, or make available pornographic materials?

Whether they have or not, we must not need to be commanded in all things but will receive most of what we are to do from the Spirit.