Time for a new Declaration of Independence?

[BroJones]

The question is, what part of this story of Alma's people are we at?

Actually, the 8th chapter of Helaman!

Bob

Agreed in part -- the Bk of Helaman certainly. Chapter 11 has the Lord sending a famine ("depression") that stops the Gadiantons for a short time.

Next comes signs of the Lord's coming (3Ne 1, etc) and the people gathering together with 7 years of resources to fend against the Gadianton robber-barons. Then earthquakes, storms, etc. -- and THEN the coming of the Lord!

(It's all there, selected for US in our generation by Mormon and Moroni who saw our day.)

[bobhenstra]

Our Prophet is not yet on his tower!

Bob

[singyourwayhome]

I think he is, and has been. Read through "The Family: A Proclamation To the World". If that's not being on a tower, raising a warning voice, I don't know what is. Look at all that has happened with governments/families/marriages, and is still happening, since that was issued.

[bobhenstra]

I think he is, and has been. Read through "The Family: A Proclamation To the World". If that's not being on a tower, raising a warning voice, I don't know what is. Look at all that has happened with governments/families/marriages, and is still happening, since that was issued.

BYUtv is now in 60 million homes, in the USA and Canada. BYU International in many more homes in Latin America, with negotiations for another 20-40 million homes happening as we speak. I suspect all this tv negotiation will have a distinct bearing concerning communication with church membership with "all" last days events (A little football and Basketball won't hurt either!).

The Family proclamation served its purpose for a time, was on one page in all the newspapers for one day, and was sent forth by the Quorum of the Twelve.

Now the homosexuals are gathering in mass to California, as in "tares" being bundled! Its already happening on the East coast. But California is getting the most attention by that group.

They are planning and working on taking over the government in 7 cities up the left coast, already have San Francisco and Portland. Gathering on the coast, next to the ocean, wonder whats going to happen next?

I wonder, if the prophet announced they were to be destroyed by--say a tidal wave, I wonder how many of them would party at the beach mocking the prophet? Same idea with the gadiantons, holding their "secret" meetings on some island resort---

Doesn't it seem logical that a warning has to be given, only for the good people who will repent? "The fools mock, but they shall mourn--" The warnings serve those who will repent, not those who mock!

And how will the rest of the non membership in the country understand after it happens, if the prophet doesn't stand on his tower and tell the people why? on National television, and I'm not talking BYUtv, nor single page newspaper statements here, I'm talking the Sunday morning news show circuit. I for one do not read the newspaper, I'm not a subscriber, I get my news from trusted sources on the internet. So our prophet's tower today is National and international TV.

Nephi himself warned his repentant people about the gadiantons of his day, but not "just" the church membership, the wicked got to hear also. The ldg's of our day must also be gathered as "tares." And what other "tares" out there that need be bundled?

Bob

[Geeswell]

I agree, Bob, but my question is, unless the people are truly pure in heart who would turn to byutv? sometimes i tun to the apostasy channel, as i like to call it, and chuckle at the nonsense (or i would when i would visit my parents--i dont have tv service) but in that light i certainly don't take an ounce of it seriously.

and how many yet today, other than members, actually have read or heard about the proclamation on the family?

I just keep thinking to myself how these warnings will actually get mainstream? how will they get to people who don't want to hear it, and wouldnt hear about it unless it was shoved in their faces?

i guess we are kind of seeing that with the Proclamation on the family, as it was written in 95 and is now among the main documents being used as a weapon against same sex marriage.

but should we expect to see more aggressive broadcasting of God's will to the world in the near future?

[bobhenstra]

We need not sell the existing church membership short, a full 50% of us will survive the tests and remain in mortality.

KBYU is a public station, and must remain that way for tax purposes (for now). BYUtv is not, BYUtv is privately owned. Its BYUtv that will be the mouthpiece of the Lord when AHBL and after the missionaries are called home. The good people of the world will not be left without guidance. There an important reason why we have satellites up there.

Truth is, our prophet has to get on his tower to warn the good people in the world. After the cleansing is complete in this country, they'll find their way here. Again, there's not much sense in warning the mockers, just so they condemn themselves-- Its the good people who need the warnings, so they will listen further, repent and make their way here to join the body of the saints that will continue on into the Millennium.

Our prophet will get on his tower before the cleansing here, during the cleansing here, and after this cleansing. The good people of the earth will need to be brought here, taught, trained and sent back to those parts of the world that are cleansed, as the parts of the world is cleansed. These are the blessed people who'll enter into the millennium. A tried and tested people!

Bob

[BroJones]

(snips) We need not sell the existing church membership short, a full 50% of us will survive the tests and remain in mortality.


Bob

Hmmmm.. are you sure about this statement, Bob?
What fraction today obey the counsel of the Prophets regarding:
Working mothers
Debt avoidance
Long-term food storage
AND 3-month rotating food supply of commonly-used foods
Not accepting gov't welfare
Divorce
Supporting Prop. 8
"Come out of Babylon" and not support the secret combination (Ether 8 ) nor partake of its spoils (Hel. 6)
REading and supporting the US Constitution??

On second thought -- it quite likely that many will turn around and support the Prophets should a sudden sifting or challenge to their faith arise. It is the "gradual sifting" that is going on that worries, frankly.

[bobhenstra]

(snips) We need not sell the existing church membership short, a full 50% of us will survive the tests and remain in mortality.


Bob

Hmmmm.. are you sure about this statement, Bob?
What fraction today obey the counsel of the Prophets regarding:
Working mothers
Debt avoidance
Long-term food storage
AND 3-month rotating food supply of commonly-used foods
Not accepting gov't welfare
Divorce
Supporting Prop. 8
"Come out of Babylon" and not support the secret combination (Ether 8 ) nor partake of its spoils (Hel. 6)
REading and supporting the US Constitution??

On second thought -- it quite likely that many will turn around and support the Prophets should a sudden sifting or challenge to their faith arise. It is the "gradual sifting" that is going on that worries, frankly.

Steve, I'm a great believer in repentance and forgiveness. I agree with your "second thought!"

Bob

[LittleLion]

Steve, I'm a great believer in repentance and forgiveness. I agree with your "second thought!" Bob

Last time I heard death bed repentance does not work. I would like to think that a full 50% will make it through the trials ahead but the scriptures do not support this. I think remnant is supported much better in the scriptures. So I suppose it all depends on your definition of remnant!

[Jason]

Steve, I'm a great believer in repentance and forgiveness. I agree with your "second thought!" Bob

Last time I heard death bed repentance does not work. I would like to think that a full 50% will make it through the trials ahead but the scriptures do not support this. I think remnant is supported much better in the scriptures. So I suppose it all depends on your definition of remnant!

Depends which group you're splitting in half.....all church membership, those with temple recommends, those who utilize their temple recommends, etc....

goes back to the fact that 100% are anxiously awaiting the bridegroom....but half are slackers which I interrupt (as a guesstimate) to mean 50% of those who hold a temple recommend.....not that it really matters any in the end.

Wherever I fall....so be it. I know the judgment will be just!

[bobhenstra]

Steve, I'm a great believer in repentance and forgiveness. I agree with your "second thought!" Bob

Last time I heard death bed repentance does not work. I would like to think that a full 50% will make it through the trials ahead but the scriptures do not support this. I think remnant is supported much better in the scriptures. So I suppose it all depends on your definition of remnant!

Depends which group you're splitting in half.....all church membership, those with temple recommends, those who utilize their temple recommends, etc....

goes back to the fact that 100% are anxiously awaiting the bridegroom....but half are slackers which I interrupt (as a guesstimate) to mean 50% of those who hold a temple recommend.....not that it really matters any in the end.

Wherever I fall....so be it. I know the judgment will be just!

As in anciently, the half that contained Alma the Younger and the Sons of Mosiah? I suspect some of us will be surprised who shows when the chips are down!

Bob

[Jason]

Depends which group you're splitting in half.....all church membership, those with temple recommends, those who utilize their temple recommends, etc....

goes back to the fact that 100% are anxiously awaiting the bridegroom....but half are slackers which I interrupt (as a guesstimate) to mean 50% of those who hold a temple recommend.....not that it really matters any in the end.

Wherever I fall....so be it. I know the judgment will be just!

As in anciently, the half that contained Alma the Younger and the Sons of Mosiah? I suspect some of us will be surprised who shows when the chips are down!

Bob

City of Enoch at some point....

[ithink]

The Native American idea is one I have been working on for a while, although I would prefer that the European Decedents get their act together.

I know a Chieftainess of the Katoi in Alaska, her name is Faith Braswell and we became good friends. She has been doing a land rights swap with land in the lower 48 with land owned by the natives of Alaska. Natives of Alaska own millions of acres of Suzerain land.

She told me that what her tribe does - any land or business property that the Native Americans want to own as Suzerain anywhere else in the United States, they trade the land rights from their land for the land rights of the land they want converted. http://www.timesreview.com/_st_html/st0 ... /news1.htm

I was working with her to have a college campus in Portland Oregon converted to Suzerain land, mainly to avoid the I-9 regulations of the Federal Government for bringing in foreign students. Their tribe issues their own visas.

She told me that when I moved to Missouri and purchased my land that she would do the land rights swap and I could have my land as Suzerain land. I am part Native American, and that is how it would be possible.

She has a plan, although the implications for this could spell something negative for the Gentiles that they live among. Perhaps us LDS, with some of us being part Native American, constitution loving people, could work together on Suzerain land under a new declaration of independence.

God Bless,
Darren

I believe it is spelled Kitoi. Are they Ojibwe?

[Darren]

I believe it is spelled Kitoi. Are they Ojibwe?

You are right it is the Kitoi Tribe on the King Salmon Peninsula in Alaska, they are an Alutiiq people
Faith Braswell http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Braswell ... 99879.aspx
Another relevant article. http://www.timesreview.com/_st_html/st1 ... /news2.htm

Last time I talked with Faith about this land swap, she said it is still in litigation.

Talking to her, she is very confident in her rights, caries her own Nation of Kitoi passport, and says she represents her Kitoi nation in international trading and fishing.

When Faith was young, in the late 1950s, the U.S. Government came to her and forcefully tattooed a government issued serial number on her arm. I understand from her that there are many Native Americans in Alaska that do not conform to U.S. regulations for them. When the U.S. purchased Alaska from Russia, they only purchased Russia's developments not the rights to the Natives and their lands. So it is a whole different game up there, when it comes to the natives.

Maybe this is an unresolved blot on the USA that will lead to something unexpected.

God Bless,
Darren