US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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LoveIsTruth
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US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by LoveIsTruth »

US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom
"fiat money and liberty are incompatible ... therefore one must unavoidably destroy the other"
Written in 2010.

There is a provision in the Constitution of the United States, that says that States should use nothing but gold and silver as money (Article 1, Section 10). We are not taught that in school, and when it is remembered it is primarily viewed condescendingly as a quaint, antiquated relic of an older time that is now wholly impractical and even a little funny. This is a deadly mistake! Because 100% commodity based monetary system is a great protector of liberty of the people, abandoning which inescapably leads to the destruction of Freedom. Let me explain why.

If money is defined as a medium of exchange for goods and services, then there are two ways to do money: Fiat and Commodity. One is dishonest the other is honest.

Fiat money has no intrinsic value in itself, it is worthless pieces of paper, or now simply electronic computer signals 0's and 1's. It is backed by nothing, and is created out of nothing. There is nothing backing it except government force.

Commodity money, as the name implies, is a commodity, such as gold, silver, or any other convenient commodity. It is produced as any other good, like copper, concrete, or computers. It cannot be conjured out of nothing. Its purchasing power is measured by its intrinsic value, and it needs no government force behind it for people to accept it as a medium of exchange.

Now here is the problem.

When "money" is created out of nothing it becomes an instrument of plunder, by which the one who issues it can lay claim to goods and services produced by other people, in exchange for worthless pieces of paper, or now in exchange for worthless electronic computer signals. In a word, fiat money is the essence of legalized counterfeiting, of plunder, theft and fraud. It is something for nothing!

Simply put, fiat money is nothing more than legalized counterfeiting that allows the government and the banks to rob and control the people.

Recent "bailouts," or shall we call it for what it was,—thefts,— are a great example of that. Trillions of "dollars" were conjured out of nothing and the banks and the government became the owners of entire industries! In exchange for what? For computer 0's and 1's of course! Because it's money, you see. Or is it?

Not exactly. It was not so from the beginning.

Money originated as a commodity; and the true, honest definition of money is this:
  • Money is simply a commodity that is commonly used as a medium of exchange, and its purchasing power is determined by its intrinsic value.
To be most convenient medium of exchange that commodity has to be:
  • 1) Homogeneous (every piece of the same weight is equal in value to any other piece of equal weight).
    2) Durable.
    3) Infinitely divisible.
    4) Contain great value in small size.
    5) Preserve purchasing power over time.
    6) Easy to handle.
    7) Cannot be conjured out of nothing. (Money must be something you CANNOT print).
Historically, the commodities that most closely satisfy these conditions have been gold, silver, and other precious metals. (Incidentally, the arguments that there are not enough gold or silver in the world to support a modern economy are entirely baseless. Even if there was only one ton of gold in the world, it could support the entire world economy as the medium of exchange if you chop it up small enough, because it follows the above mentioned conditions. And there is much, much more gold and silver and other precious metals in the world than just one ton!)

Yes, you can still use paper or computer signals to transfer the ownership of money, the commodity that is the medium of exchange. But that paper, and those computer signals must not be viewed as money themselves, merely as binding promises to pay real money, the underlying commodity. Anything less than that is an old fashioned slight of hand, plunder, theft and fraud!

If we had 100% commodity based monetary system, none of the recent "bailouts" would've been physically possible. Because you cannot easily double the amount of the underlying commodity in the world in the space of 3 month, like Federal Reserve did last year, doubling the nation's money supply to pay for the "bailouts." Therefore 100% commodity based monetary system, honest money, is a great protector of property rights, and it binds and restrains the government from robbing the people and from redistributing their wealth. The question between Fiat and Commodity money is this: Who should spend people's money? The people who earned it, or the government? This is the question at the core of the problem.

Honest, 100% commodity based monetary system is the only system yet conceived by man, by which he can restrain his government from robbing him through legalized counterfeiting and inflation. This is, in part, what Jefferson meant when he spoke of binding men with the chains of the Constitution, because gold and silver place an iron restraint on the ability of government to counterfeit and inflate, and thus rob the people.

This is the lesson that Americans have to learn again, if they are to retain their liberty, because fiat money is a violation of that eternal principle: "Thou shall not steal."

Fiat money, that old fraud that was brought here from England, has been the instrument of enslaving and robbing this great nation. "Allow me to issue [legally counterfeit] a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws," bragged Mayer Amschel Rothschild, the European banker who pioneered this fraud. This is what happened in our nation too. The legally counterfeited money, money created out of nothing are used to buy politicians, legislatures, media, schools, courts, judges, police, army and industries. It is used to subvert all the institutions that were designed to preserve our liberty, and to create and fund the institutions designed to enslave and destroy us. This is how the government was able to step outside of its constitutional bounds,—because they got a counterfeiting machine! Now they can subvert the whole world! This is precisely what they have done! The good news is that 100% commodity based monetary system destroys that counterfeiting machine!

The lesson that people of freedom have to learn the world over is that fiat money and liberty are incompatible, they are the opposites of each other, and therefore one must unavoidably destroy the other. It flows from a fundamental principle, that you cannot build a free and prosperous society on fraud. Fiat money is the fraud!

We must return to the principles of our inspired Constitution, and restore an honest and sound, 100% commodity based monetary system if we are to have any hope to preserve liberty and prosperity in this land. The formula that succinctly describes this idea is this:
  • Righteousness + Silver + Gold = Liberty
    Fiat Paper = Theft and Tyranny
The choice is yours!

There is a brilliant piece of legislation in the House of Representatives called HR 4248 Free Competition In Currency Act Of 2009 authored by Representative Ron Paul, that legalizes the Constitution by allowing gold and silver currencies to compete side by side with rapidly depreciating Federal Reserve Notes. This will allow for the most harmonious transition from the current collapsing fiat system to a sound, honest, Constitutional, 100% precious metal based monetary system. I urge all to support it!
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on May 19th, 2010, 1:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Original_Intent
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Original_Intent »

I agree with you, and expect a rebuttal from Jason in 3....2.....1... :wink:

or rather he is (also correctly) going to state that being on a commodity based currency does not stop the theft (but it does limit it to some degree at least!) Definitely a step in the correct direction, imho!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by LoveIsTruth »

You are right. It is INFINITELY harder to counterfeit a trillion in gold bullion, than in 0's and 1's!

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »

Original_Intent wrote:I agree with you, and expect a rebuttal from Jason in 3....2.....1... :wink:

or rather he is (also correctly) going to state that being on a commodity based currency does not stop the theft (but it does limit it to some degree at least!) Definitely a step in the correct direction, imho!
LOL There's no point in it.....obviously the opinions are cast....for better or worse!

We'll see how the cards get dealt!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Silver Shines as an Economic Solution


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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »


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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by LoveIsTruth »

The answer to that is:

Silver Shines as an Economic Solution



To summarize: even if the banksters owned all the silver and all the gold, (which, by far, they don't), still, if gold and silver were legalized as the medium of exchange, eventually most of it would end up in the hands of the people. More importantly it would break the banksters counterfeiting machine, because you CANNOT conjure gold and silver out of nothing. Bottom line, allow people the liberty to transact in what they will without harassment by law or by taxation, and see what people will predominantly choose. I guarantee it will be a 100% commodity based monetary system (most prominently gold and silver), because 100% commodity based currency is the most honest and the most stable monetary system KNOWN TO MAN!

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »

LoveIsTruth wrote:To summarize: even if the banksters owned all the silver and all the gold, (which, by far, they don't), still, if gold and silver were legalized as the medium of exchange, eventually most of it would end up in the hands of the people. More importantly it would break the banksters counterfeiting machine, because you CANNOT conjure gold and silver out of nothing. Bottom line, allow people the liberty to transact in what they will without harassment by law or by taxation, and see what people will predominantly choose. I guarantee it will be a 100% commodity based monetary system (most prominently gold and silver), because 100% commodity based currency is the most honest and the most stable monetary system KNOWN TO MAN!
LOL....how in the world will it all eventually end up in the hands of the people just because it becomes legal tender? Seriously....

The root economic problem today is debt....not what we use as currency (paper and electronic digits).

People already had that opportunity yet chose to end up where we are today....unless of course you want to point out who is holding a gun to everyone's head for the past couple centuries....

Again your hypothesis' are moot. You can't guarantee smack....


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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Jason wrote:LOL....how in the world will it all eventually end up in the hands of the people just because it becomes legal tender? Seriously....
Simple. Because people will trade their goods and services for gold and silver. That's how.
Jason wrote:The root economic problem today is debt....not what we use as currency (paper and electronic digits).
The root economic problem is fiat (i.e. legalized counterfeiting). Debt is simply adding insult to the injury.
Jason wrote:People already had that opportunity yet chose to end up where we are today....unless of course you want to point out who is holding a gun to everyone's head for the past couple centuries....
So, are you saying that if people chose wrongly, they cannot choose more wisely now? Gold backing was completely removed fairly recently 1971.
Jason wrote:Again your hypothesis' are moot. You can't guarantee smack....
Will see about that. Will start with seeing your predictions obliterated and disgraced, together with your twisted theories about the glories of fiat fraud and improper use of government force!

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:LOL....how in the world will it all eventually end up in the hands of the people just because it becomes legal tender? Seriously....
Simple. Because people will trade their goods and services for gold and silver. That's how.

At what price? ....and how does that take care of the current debt burden? Slaves get paid....even if its just the bare minimum of food and clothing that enables them to keep on providing goods and services. Have you seen the suicide nets around the Foxconn buildings?
Jason wrote:The root economic problem today is debt....not what we use as currency (paper and electronic digits).
The root economic problem is fiat (i.e. legalized counterfeiting). Debt is simply adding insult to the injury.

Agree to disagree. imo debt is the foundation of the economic problems.
Jason wrote:People already had that opportunity yet chose to end up where we are today....unless of course you want to point out who is holding a gun to everyone's head for the past couple centuries....
So, are you saying that if people chose wrongly, they cannot choose more wisely now? Gold backing was completely removed fairly recently 1971.

Nope...that would be your department. Just stating that they've had opportunities already and passed them by.

I doubt decisions could be better made today with a more wicked society than in times past with less wickedness.

Gold backing was a facade long before that point....hence the removal of the obligation...or inability to keep the prior contracts. Basically shifted to an oil backed currency which has basically held through to the past year or so.

Jason wrote:Again your hypothesis' are moot. You can't guarantee smack....
Will see about that. Will start with seeing your predictions obliterated and disgraced, together with your twisted theories about the glories of fiat fraud and improper use of government force!
LOL...yes time will tell the story one way or another!

fyi - never have glorified fiat or improper use of government force....just poked holes in your arguments....which you then spin as demonstrated above.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Jason wrote:fyi - never have glorified fiat or improper use of government force....just poked holes in your arguments....which you then spin as demonstrated above.
You are one of the greatest cheerleaders for fiat money on this forum. And fiat, by definition, is fraud, because, again by definition, it is SOMETHING FOR NOTHING, i.e. fraud.

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:fyi - never have glorified fiat or improper use of government force....just poked holes in your arguments....which you then spin as demonstrated above.
You are one of the greatest cheerleaders for fiat money on this forum. And fiat, by definition, is fraud, because, again by definition, it is SOMETHING FOR NOTHING, i.e. fraud.
....um sure....because there's this big fiat cheerleading contest on here and you've certainly read every post and tabulated the results haven't you....

fiat has its merits and faults just like pm's, sticks, shells, and everything else that has been used for money over the past 6000 years....and turning a blind eye to merits because you distaste the faults seems like intellectual dishonesty to me....but that's of little spin value isn't it.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Jason wrote:fiat has its merits and faults ...and turning a blind eye to merits because you distaste the faults seems like intellectual dishonesty to me....
It's like saying: "ROBBERY has its merits and faults and turning a blind eye to merits because you distaste the faults seems like intellectual dishonesty to me."


Well, what seems to you, my friend, is WRONG. Theft is theft, plunder is plunder. Fiat is both THEFT and PLUNDER by definition, because it is SOMETHING FOR NOTHING, which is the definition of fraud.

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:fiat has its merits and faults ...and turning a blind eye to merits because you distaste the faults seems like intellectual dishonesty to me....
It's like saying: "ROBBERY has its merits and faults and turning a blind eye to merits because you distaste the faults seems like intellectual dishonesty to me."


Well, what seems to you, my friend, is WRONG. Theft is theft, plunder is plunder. Fiat is both THEFT and PLUNDER by definition, because it is SOMETHING FOR NOTHING, which is the definition of fraud.
...explain the robbery! If I willingly work for fiat....how am I robbed? If the store merchant readily accepts my fiat - how am I robbed? If his vendors readily accept the fiat - how is he robbed? .....that nothing sure works well for exchange of goods and services. Very strong record of that. Free from manipulation...NO...but nothing is...not even gold or silver.

Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

The issue is some type of systemic self control over the supply of currency. I can't think of anytime in history where fiat money worked for any length of time because all controls were eliminated. We're seeing this now with all central banking throughout the world.

I would be gald to entertain a dialogue showing where a fiat money approach worked to bring price stabnilty and wasn't used to enrich the elite at the expe=nbse of the ordinary Joe. Are you game?

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »

Samuel the Lamanite wrote:The issue is some type of systemic self control over the supply of currency. I can't think of anytime in history where fiat money worked for any length of time because all controls were eliminated. We're seeing this now with all central banking throughout the world.

I would be gald to entertain a dialogue showing where a fiat money approach worked to bring price stabnilty and wasn't used to enrich the elite at the expe=nbse of the ordinary Joe. Are you game?
...imo it comes down to a righteous people. Roman empire devalued their coins until they were of zero worth. Otherwise you are back to barter which is what most seem to be saying they would prefer....and tout the historical history of bartering as the general success of their ideology.

....the constraint must be the people (representative government)....with a righteous people. If they choose wickedness....game over....nothing will help them. There isn't a contract that can be written that guarantees both parties will hold up their ends of the bargain in a wicked society.....business (transactions) cease to occur and society degrades into chaos. You may claim gold and silver solve the problem...but I think not. May hold the tide for time on the downward spiral....but inevitably it will turn to violence and full on force until people destroy each other.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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Jason wrote:...explain the robbery! If I willingly work for fiat....how am I robbed? If the store merchant readily accepts my fiat - how am I robbed? If his vendors readily accept the fiat - how is he robbed?
The robbery occurs at the point of creation of fiat money. The robbery is perpetrated by the FIRST one who uses it. He recieves SOMETHING for NOTHING.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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Samuel the Lamanite wrote:The issue is some type of systemic self control over the supply of currency.
That systemic control is called Free Market. If you produce a substandard currency that loses it's purchasing power, it will be rejected. Simple as that. But for these controls to operate you must remove government force that by law or taxation prevents such Free Competition in Currencies.

Freedom demands Free Competition in Currencies! which is the death of fiat, that cannot survive where such competition is present, because fiat is plunder, and no one likes being plundered!
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on May 27th, 2011, 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:...explain the robbery! If I willingly work for fiat....how am I robbed? If the store merchant readily accepts my fiat - how am I robbed? If his vendors readily accept the fiat - how is he robbed?
The robbery occurs at the point of creation of fiat money. The robbery is perpetrated by the FIRST one who uses it. He recieves SOMETHING for NOTHING.
...which if its representative government (proxy for the people) - how can people rob themselves???

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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Jason wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:...explain the robbery! If I willingly work for fiat....how am I robbed? If the store merchant readily accepts my fiat - how am I robbed? If his vendors readily accept the fiat - how is he robbed?
The robbery occurs at the point of creation of fiat money. The robbery is perpetrated by the FIRST one who uses it. He recieves SOMETHING for NOTHING.
...which if its representative government (proxy for the people) - how can people rob themselves???
Easily! It is called democracy and socialism. Have you heard of it? But in reality it is not the people, but the government that ends up robbing the people via legalized counterfeiting and inflation.

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Original_Intent
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Original_Intent »

Jason, I had somebody point something out to me today that I think very well illustrates the problem with fiat. I think (hope) it will convince you.

We all know what is called the "Benson" principle - the idea that we can give no power to the government that we individually do not possess. And that proper government can take no power unto itself, it can only be delegated to it by the people.

The power of fiat is that it enforces the fiat currency as payment of debt. I am not for a barter system but I AM for a backed currency or multiple competing currencies.

It is important to differentiate between "buying" and "paying of debt". Currently, if I want to seel something, I can sell it for whatever I want. If I don't want to, I don't have to accept dollars. However, if I incur a debt, the law REQUIRES that I allow that debt to be settled in dollars. Hence the "fiat".

Again, back to the Benson principle - proper government can only have powers delegated to it from the people, and the people cannot delegate any power collectively that they do not individually possess.

So let people who want to deal in unbacked paper money. Let people who want to deal in barter do so, and let people exchange via paper money backed by whatever commodity they wish. In such a system, unbacked paper money is going to go the way of the dodo, And if it doesn't - GREAT! But at least people are choosing to use it rather than by edict. And that is the root principle of why fiat is wrong - because it is only money by decree, and it is decreed by those who create it (or those under their influence). Handy, huh? ;)

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:The robbery occurs at the point of creation of fiat money. The robbery is perpetrated by the FIRST one who uses it. He recieves SOMETHING for NOTHING.
...which if its representative government (proxy for the people) - how can people rob themselves???
Easily! It is called democracy and socialism. Have you heard of it? But in reality it is not the people, but the government that ends up robbing the people via legalized counterfeiting and inflation.
...if the masses choose wickedness....all bets are off no matter what the people/government choose to use as currency!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Jason wrote:...if the masses choose wickedness....all bets are off no matter what the people/government choose to use as currency!
It was Jefferson who said, that if all men were angels, you could have any form of government and it would work. But all men are not angels. Therefore, he proposed binding the government down with the "chains of the Constitution" and sound money. That was a very wise course, which the Lord himself inspired. Are you going to fight against that wisdom? Are you wiser than the Lord?

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

Post by Jason »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:...if the masses choose wickedness....all bets are off no matter what the people/government choose to use as currency!
It was Jefferson who said, that if all men were angels, you could have any form of government and it would work. But all men are not angels. Therefore, he proposed binding the government down with the "chains of the Constitution" and sound money. That was a very wise course, which the Lord himself inspired. Are you going to fight against that wisdom? Are you wiser than the Lord?
LOL....yeah where are we today??? Men better become angels or they are going to get wiped out....no matter what the paperwork says.

I look forward to Zion....and while Zion may utilize a PM based money....it may not....and in terms of economics...I think there are better solutions out there. I look forward to the day men don't lust after yellow metal and we pave the streets with it. To each their own though....

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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Jason wrote:I look forward to Zion....and while Zion may utilize a PM based money....it may not....and in terms of economics...I think there are better solutions out there. I look forward to the day men don't lust after yellow metal and we pave the streets with it. To each their own though....
Well, they sure will not pave the streets of Zion with paper!

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