US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:I look forward to Zion....and while Zion may utilize a PM based money....it may not....and in terms of economics...I think there are better solutions out there. I look forward to the day men don't lust after yellow metal and we pave the streets with it. To each their own though....
Well, they sure will not pave the streets of Zion with paper!
...yeah its a crappy electrical conductor....

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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Original_Intent wrote:Jason, I had somebody point something out to me today that I think very well illustrates the problem with fiat. I think (hope) it will convince you.

We all know what is called the "Benson" principle - the idea that we can give no power to the government that we individually do not possess. And that proper government can take no power unto itself, it can only be delegated to it by the people.

The power of fiat is that it enforces the fiat currency as payment of debt. I am not for a barter system but I AM for a backed currency or multiple competing currencies.

Which we currently have....its just the backing that is at debate.

It is important to differentiate between "buying" and "paying of debt". Currently, if I want to seel something, I can sell it for whatever I want. If I don't want to, I don't have to accept dollars. However, if I incur a debt, the law REQUIRES that I allow that debt to be settled in dollars. Hence the "fiat".

You borrow dollars...you pay back dollars.....same with Euros and every other currency out there. That's what rocks the carry trade (borrowing cheap dollars and investing in New Zealand) is the conversion back to pay the debt......which is about to become rampant all over the world and will cause the dollar to make a drastic comeback in a very short period of time - same with the yen.

Again, back to the Benson principle - proper government can only have powers delegated to it from the people, and the people cannot delegate any power collectively that they do not individually possess.

So let people who want to deal in unbacked paper money. Let people who want to deal in barter do so, and let people exchange via paper money backed by whatever commodity they wish. In such a system, unbacked paper money is going to go the way of the dodo, And if it doesn't - GREAT! But at least people are choosing to use it rather than by edict. And that is the root principle of why fiat is wrong - because it is only money by decree, and it is decreed by those who create it (or those under their influence). Handy, huh? ;)
We have that system.....I can barter and trade on KSL, garage sales, etc etc etc.....or I can choose to use paper.

I believe it was just made legal to use gold and silver in Utah....we'll see how fast that catches on LOL....

The real fraud is money created with interest (debt - which created more and more money up until the saturation point). But most want to ignore that and tout the precious metals rant....

Sure the big banks have control and the whole system is completely corrupt right now.....but that's not the result of fiat money as so many claim....while they speculate and try to get everyone else to speculate in commodities.

Thanks but no thanks....I'll stick with uncle Brigham on this one!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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Original_Intent wrote:Jason, I had somebody point something out to me today that I think very well illustrates the problem with fiat. I think (hope) it will convince you.

We all know what is called the "Benson" principle - the idea that we can give no power to the government that we individually do not possess. And that proper government can take no power unto itself, it can only be delegated to it by the people.

The power of fiat is that it enforces the fiat currency as payment of debt. I am not for a barter system but I AM for a backed currency or multiple competing currencies.

It is important to differentiate between "buying" and "paying of debt". Currently, if I want to seel something, I can sell it for whatever I want. If I don't want to, I don't have to accept dollars. However, if I incur a debt, the law REQUIRES that I allow that debt to be settled in dollars. Hence the "fiat".

Again, back to the Benson principle - proper government can only have powers delegated to it from the people, and the people cannot delegate any power collectively that they do not individually possess.

So let people who want to deal in unbacked paper money. Let people who want to deal in barter do so, and let people exchange via paper money backed by whatever commodity they wish. In such a system, unbacked paper money is going to go the way of the dodo, And if it doesn't - GREAT! But at least people are choosing to use it rather than by edict. And that is the root principle of why fiat is wrong - because it is only money by decree, and it is decreed by those who create it (or those under their influence). Handy, huh? ;)
Excellent points! Thank you!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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Jason wrote:Thanks but no thanks....I'll stick with uncle Brigham on this one!
Uncle Brigham had a gold backed currency in Utah.

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Jason
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:Thanks but no thanks....I'll stick with uncle Brigham on this one!
Uncle Brigham had a gold backed currency in Utah.
Did he have other options at the time?

What did he say about speculating and chasing precious metals?

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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Jason wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:Thanks but no thanks....I'll stick with uncle Brigham on this one!
Uncle Brigham had a gold backed currency in Utah.
Did he have other options at the time?

What did he say about speculating and chasing precious metals?
Whatever he said, he had a gold backed currency in Utah, guaranteed under his own signature and the signatures of the Twelve. Brother Brigham understood that fiat was fraud. You do not understand that. But that's why you are not Brigham!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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Ron Paul on the Gold Standard and Competing Currencies Fox News October 4 2009


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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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  • I believe in honest money, the gold and silver coinage of the Constitution, and a circulating medium convertible into such money without loss. I regard it as a flagrant violation of the explicit provisions of the Constitution for the federal government to make it a criminal offense to use gold or silver coin as legal tender or to issue irredeemable paper money.

    (Ezra Taft Benson, God, Family, Country: Our Three Great Loyalties, 1974.)


    Let us prepare ourselves for the trying time ahead and resolve that, with the grace of God and through our own self-reliance, we shall rebuild a monetary system and a healthy economy which, once again, will become the model for all the world. (An Enemy Hath Done This, pp. 220-21.)" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson p 640.)

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: US Constitution, Sound Money, and Freedom

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What Will Trump Do About the Central-Bank Cartel?
Trump could end global banking tyranny
Thorsten Pollet | Mises.org - February 13, 2017
Of course, change for the better doesn’t come from politics. It comes from better ideas. For it is ideas that determine human action. Whatever these ideas are and wherever they come from: They make humans act. For this reason the great Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises (1881 – 1973) advocates the idea of the “sound money principle” –

“The sound-money principle has two aspects. It is affirmative in approving the market’s choice of a commonly used medium of exchange. It is negative in obstructing the government’s propensity to meddle with the currency system.”

Mises also explains convincingly the importance of the sound money principle for each and every one of us –

“It is impossible to grasp the meaning of the idea of sound money if one does not realize that it was devised as an instrument for the protection of civil liberties against despotic inroads on the part of governments. Ideologically it belongs in the same class with political constitutions and bills of right.”

Mises’s sound money principle calls for ending central banking once and for all and opening up a free market in money. Having brought to a halt political globalism for now, the new US administration has now also a once in a lifetime chance to make the world great again — simply by ending the state’s monopoly of money production.

If the US would move in that direction — ending legal tender laws and giving the freedom to the American people to use, say, gold, silver, or bitcoin as their preferred media of exchange — the rest of the world would most likely have to follow the example. That said, Mr. Trump could really make a real change, simply by embracing Mises’s sound money principle.

http://www.infowars.com/what-will-trump ... nk-cartel/
Full article here.

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