The Fundamental Principles of Liberty

[Pigpen]

If a right is defined as eternally valid, and it should be, then neither God nor man can fault you for exercising it.

No, that statement is not correct. You would no doubt argue that we all have a "right" to choose also known as the agency to make our own decisions. However, God DOES fault you for exercising it! You have the right to choose whether to smoke tobacco or not. Should you exercise your "right" by choosing to smoke tobacco WHAMMO! you lose your Temple Recommend, and rightfully so!

Everyone thinks that "rights" when exercised will lead to a utopia. Not so! There are a great many rights that we all hold that if we exercise them unchecked would lead to chaos!

THAT IS THE INHERENT NATURE OF RIGHTS!

And until the "great thinkers" among us realize that "rights" are both powerful AND dangerous we will ever fail to edge closer to the greater truths with which we can further build our nation. (Or found the next one on!)

[Pigpen]

Do you want the slavery back so as to not to "undermine" the Constitution? Don't you see that you STRENGTHEN the Constitution by improving it?

Okay, there it is: the slavery issue. Soon to follow will be Hitler and the Nazis. Or has it already come, and I missed it?

Do you want to know how I feel about the Constitution? I feel, I KNOW that it was written by snooty, rich men. Men who did not see "freedom" as the opportunity to work 100 acres with your sons on your own freehold. No, the snooty, rich men saw "freedom" as the opportunity to work 1,000 acres with work expropriated from others!

Do you want to know why those snooty, rich men went through all of the expense of shipping Africans to America instead of simply indenturing whites? Well, they tried the latter and the whites kept slipping away into the frontier where once free they ecstatically worshiped God for allowing them the unprecedented opportunity of working 100 acres with their sons on their own freehold!

Seriously, what do you think this illegal immigration is about? It is about CHEAP LABOR FOR THE RICH! It is NOT about compassion! It is NOT about love! It is about CHEAP LABOR FOR THE RICH!

Miraculously, however, as imperfect as they were, those snooty, rich men followed the inspiration of our Lord Jesus Christ and wrote a governing document that granted freedom to the righteous who feared and loved Him!

I myself DID NOT bring any slaves here! Only a small minority of snooty, rich men brought slaves here! I DID NOT smuggle the illegal immigrants here! Only a small minority of snooty, rich men brought the illegal immigrants here! So I feel VERY COMFORTABLE when I say that I have the following INALIENABLE RIGHTS:

I have the right to live in a country consecrated to JESUS CHRIST THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. And I have that right unburdened by EITHER the tyranny of wicked and constantly battling denominations OR the BLASPHEMY of false gods from India, Africa, China, or WHEREVER present here in MY COUNTRY!

I have the right to read the Bible, the Book Of Mormon, and to PRAY both in private AND IN PUBLIC!

I have the right to be with my own people. READ WHITE PEOPLE! My ancestors came here first and foremost for Freedom. The snooty, rich men (ever able to smell an opportunity ripe for exploitation) followed us! (1 Ne 13:13-16)

I have the right to PRIVATE PROPERTY. READ INCOME PRODUCING PROPERTY like a farm, a shop, or a store without regulations that favor BIG BUSINESS or that burden my small farm, my small practice, or my small business!

I have the right to oversee the education of my own children. WITHOUT any government oversight or approval!

I have the right BOTH to KEEP and to BEAR whatever ARMS are necessary to prevent the abridgment or revocation of any of these rights which I hold dear and sacred and to be from the Good Lord Jesus Christ.

I have the right to ENACT VIOLENCE IN BOTH MY AND MY NEIGHBOR'S BEHALF to prevent the abridgment or revocation of any of these rights which both I and my neighbor hold to be dear and hold to be sacred and hold to be from our Good Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

So, my rights ARE FIRST! The Constitution and these United States of America ARE SECOND. Why? Because my LORD JESUS CHRIST COMES FIRST. And the day that this country abandons Jesus Christ is the day that I abandon this country! (I will leave it up to you to decide whether that day has come and gone.) So if the Constitution upholds the rights that I just mentioned, then I will uphold it. If either the Constitution or these United States of America is found to be failing in its duty of upholding those rights, then...

And that is my answer to your query of whether I would "bring back slavery" to "strengthen" the Constitution!

[LoveIsTruth]

I agree with you: Our God, our God given rights, and our Liberty and Justice comes first. The Constitution is only as good as it protects those God given rights.

The Constitution was inspired but imperfect. We must preserve and strengthen it by removing all remaining aggressive violence codified in it, just like slavery was already removed from it. So help us God.

[LoveIsTruth]

No Room for Statism in the Libertarian Tent

By Scott Lazarowitz
April 22, 2014

...
"libertarianism is really just the promotion of liberty, the non-aggression principle and the self-ownership of the individual. As Lew Rockwell wrote, libertarianism “begins with and logically builds upon the principle of self-ownership. In the society it calls for, no one may initiate physical force against anyone else.” And in my view, the advocacy of liberty and non-aggression naturally goes with the philosophy of individualism. Individualism goes hand-in-hand with the concept of self-ownership. The individual owns one’s own life, including one’s person, one’s labor and one’s justly-acquired property."
...
"In a truly free, libertarian society, there would be no medical racket protected by a State, and there would be no medical licensure or regulations. The licensure only protects bad doctors in the same way that teachers’ tenure protects bad teachers. In a libertarian society the good doctors would advance based on the word of consumers, not government bureaucrats. Also in a libertarian society, any drug or supplement maker would have the freedom to produce and sell a product on a totally free and open market as long as no actual fraud is committed. And consumers would be free to purchase whatever they want, and that’s it. No compulsory doctor’s prescription, no federal or state government agents worrying about whether someone is using a drug not approved by a bureaucrat, and so on.

And no “illegal drugs,” only “no aggression.” And that’s it. Freedom is not complicated.

And those are just a few examples."

Read more: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/04/scot ... rian-tent/

[freedomforall]

Do you want the slavery back so as to not to "undermine" the Constitution? Don't you see that you STRENGTHEN the Constitution by improving it?

Okay, there it is: the slavery issue. Soon to follow will be Hitler and the Nazis. Or has it already come, and I missed it?

Do you want to know how I feel about the Constitution? I feel, I KNOW that it was written by snooty, rich men. Men who did not see "freedom" as the opportunity to work 100 acres with your sons on your own freehold. No, the snooty, rich men saw "freedom" as the opportunity to work 1,000 acres with work expropriated from others!

Do you want to know why those snooty, rich men went through all of the expense of shipping Africans to America instead of simply indenturing whites? Well, they tried the latter and the whites kept slipping away into the frontier where once free they ecstatically worshiped God for allowing them the unprecedented opportunity of working 100 acres with their sons on their own freehold!

Seriously, what do you think this illegal immigration is about? It is about CHEAP LABOR FOR THE RICH! It is NOT about compassion! It is NOT about love! It is about CHEAP LABOR FOR THE RICH!

Miraculously, however, as imperfect as they were, those snooty, rich men followed the inspiration of our Lord Jesus Christ and wrote a governing document that granted freedom to the righteous who feared and loved Him!

I myself DID NOT bring any slaves here! Only a small minority of snooty, rich men brought slaves here! I DID NOT smuggle the illegal immigrants here! Only a small minority of snooty, rich men brought the illegal immigrants here! So I feel VERY COMFORTABLE when I say that I have the following INALIENABLE RIGHTS:

I have the right to live in a country consecrated to JESUS CHRIST THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. And I have that right unburdened by EITHER the tyranny of wicked and constantly battling denominations OR the BLASPHEMY of false gods from India, Africa, China, or WHEREVER present here in MY COUNTRY!

I have the right to read the Bible, the Book Of Mormon, and to PRAY both in private AND IN PUBLIC!

I have the right to be with my own people. READ WHITE PEOPLE! My ancestors came here first and foremost for Freedom. The snooty, rich men (ever able to smell an opportunity ripe for exploitation) followed us! (1 Ne 13:13-16)

I have the right to PRIVATE PROPERTY. READ INCOME PRODUCING PROPERTY like a farm, a shop, or a store without regulations that favor BIG BUSINESS or that burden my small farm, my small practice, or my small business!

I have the right to oversee the education of my own children. WITHOUT any government oversight or approval!

I have the right BOTH to KEEP and to BEAR whatever ARMS are necessary to prevent the abridgment or revocation of any of these rights which I hold dear and sacred and to be from the Good Lord Jesus Christ.

I have the right to ENACT VIOLENCE IN BOTH MY AND MY NEIGHBOR'S BEHALF to prevent the abridgment or revocation of any of these rights which both I and my neighbor hold to be dear and hold to be sacred and hold to be from our Good Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

So, my rights ARE FIRST! The Constitution and these United States of America ARE SECOND. Why? Because my LORD JESUS CHRIST COMES FIRST. And the day that this country abandons Jesus Christ is the day that I abandon this country! (I will leave it up to you to decide whether that day has come and gone.) So if the Constitution upholds the rights that I just mentioned, then I will uphold it. If either the Constitution or these United States of America is found to be failing in its duty of upholding those rights, then...

And that is my answer to your query of whether I would "bring back slavery" to "strengthen" the Constitution!

This is why the Bundy's are fighting the government. They, the gov., are going against the Constitution in order to take away peoples property. And we find out that Harry Reid and his son, Rory, an attorney, are behind a lot of it. The Chinese want to built a solar power plant on the very ground that the Bundy's dwell on. And Harry had the audacity to call American patriots a bunch of "domestic terrorists". Can we believe this crap? many, many people are in agreement that it is time for "We the People" to make a stand before we end up in FEMA camps.

They could look innocent enough, yet, is there a hidden agenda behind these that could be deadly to freedom seekers at some point? There are many of these sites around the nation.





Do we want true principles of liberty or enslavement?

[LoveIsTruth]

What's So Bad About Nazis?

Answer:
Aggressive violence,
in other words,
Violation of Private Property,
which is violation of Justice and Liberty
and the definition of Evil.

[LoveIsTruth]

Five Stupid Complaints About Freedom

[LoveIsTruth]

Gun Registration: Evil, or Just Stupid?

[LoveIsTruth]

Limits = Freedom?

[freedomforall]

Here watch and listen closely to this video and see how important the Constitution is:
See what the Government has been pulling in order to seize the Bundy's land.

[LoveIsTruth]

The Constitution is important. That's why it must be improved or die. (It is half dead already because of the self-contradictions it contains).

[freedomforall]

The Constitution is important. That's why it must be improved or die. (It is half dead already because of the self-contradictions it contains).

Ya, Right! Only a minute minority would believe this. The Bundy's were able to ward off the BLM by standing up for the very document you say is faulty. My guess is that you didn't even watch the video.
The only reason it is going down the toilet is because of derogatory statements like those on this thread and apathy by Americans aimed at the Supreme Law of the Land. Try to tell the Bundy's otherwise.

[LoveIsTruth]

The Constitution is important. That's why it must be improved or die. (It is half dead already because of the self-contradictions it contains).

Ya, Right! Only a minute minority would believe this. The Bundy's were able to ward off the BLM by standing up for the very document you say is faulty. My guess is that you didn't even watch the video.
The only reason it is going down the toilet is because of derogatory statements like those on this thread and apathy by Americans aimed at the Supreme Law of the Land. Try to tell the Bundy's otherwise.

You are wrong, illogical, irrational, and on this point -- dumb.

[freedomforall]

The Constitution is important. That's why it must be improved or die. (It is half dead already because of the self-contradictions it contains).

Ya, Right! Only a minute minority would believe this. The Bundy's were able to ward off the BLM by standing up for the very document you say is faulty. My guess is that you didn't even watch the video.
The only reason it is going down the toilet is because of derogatory statements like those on this thread and apathy by Americans aimed at the Supreme Law of the Land. Try to tell the Bundy's otherwise.

You are wrong, illogical, irrational, and on this point -- dumb.

This Christian based judgement of me is the first real, solid and accurate thing said on this whole thread. Did it all come out of the same brain? If so, I thank the author(s) for the quick witted and spirited analysis of me. I applaud all of them. :ymapplause: Nonetheless, I'm certainly not dumb enough to believe an opinion claiming the Constitution is faulty and needs to be fixed has any merit. If I were to believe this type of rhetoric, even after being slam-dunked by an all powerful Constitutional guru...I would really be dumb. And now I know there is reaching down into the bottom of the barrel for snide remarks, and an increase of not believing the Prophets when they say to learn, befriend, and uphold the Constitution, with no admonitions whatsoever to fix it. At least one, however, said to look down with scorn upon anyone demeaning that great document, and on this wise, and as dumb as I am...and in showing appreciation and much honor, I gladly do as President McKay stated.
*-:) Maybe the rules on this forum need fixing too. Right?
BTW, did you watch the video? It's quite informative. Even this dummy grasped the message.

[LoveIsTruth]

"To learn, befriend, and uphold the Constitution," is to fix it from deadly errors embedded in its foundation, (like slavery already was fixed), without which fixing the Constitution (already mostly dead) will completely die.

with no admonitions whatsoever to fix it.

• For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
  
  Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
  
  For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.
  
  But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned. (Doctrine and Covenants 58:26-29)
  

[freedomforall]

"To learn, befriend, and uphold the Constitution," is to fix it from deadly errors embedded in its foundation, (like slavery already was fixed), without which fixing the Constitution (already mostly dead) will completely die.

with no admonitions whatsoever to fix it.

• For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
  
  Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
  
  For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.
  
  But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned. (Doctrine and Covenants 58:26-29)
  

Like I said, you are in the minority with this line of thinking. You cannot use other scripture to justify espousing this stuff. God said in his own words that we are justified in befriending and upholding the Constitution which is the law of the land. Nothing you say can justify skirting around this. I'm not so dumb as to attempt saying anything more or less than what God says in direct relation to the Constitution. So how can you, are you his new spokesperson now?
I cannot see why you are so bent on doing everything other than befriending the Constitution as God says to. That which needs fixing is the poor attitudes among Americans that show apathy towards that great document. We're supposed to have a religious republic, not a tyrannical government.
Our Constitution will not die completely. It is the very type of government Christ will have when He is here. President Benson said the flag would be floating in the breeze when Christ comes. It is real sad when members of the church wear blinders when it comes to upholding the Constitution. The prophets have intimated this problem as well and have also said that it is because of this mindset that we have lost so many of our freedoms and liberty thus far. It was also said that people in this country that will not stand for freedom and the Constitution should not have the right to call themselves American citizens.
Get yourself a copy of "A glorious Standard" by Chris Bentley, then you will know what you should be doing, and why scorn ought to be shown toward those who undermine the Constitution. http://www.amazon.com/A-Glorious-Standa ... s+Standard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[LoveIsTruth]

God said in his own words that we are justified in befriending and upholding the Constitution which is the law of the land.

He never said that. He made a CONDITIONAL statement:

• And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
  Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
  And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil. (D&C 98:5-7)

If that condition is violated, then, according to him, it "cometh of evil."

Will you say that because slavery was found in the Original Constitution, we are under obligation to "befriend and uphold" slavery? Will you fight to put it back into the Constitution? Why not? Because it violates the strict condition that God gave: "supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind." ONLY that which complies with this strict condition is "justifiable before me," and everything else which is "more or less than this, cometh of evil." This is why we are not commanded to "befriend and uphold" slavery, even though it was in the Original Constitution. What we are commanded to befriend and uphold is that law which is "supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me," not slavery, and not any other error and injustice that is STILL found in the Constitution.

Why did I say that slavery is error and injustice? Because God has said: "Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another." (D&C 101:79)

This is why I said, as the Constitution was already IMPROVED and STRENGTHENED by REMOVING slavery from it, so it must be IMPROVED and STRENGTHENED further, by removing all remaining vestiges of aggressive violence still found in it, especially public taxation of Private Property, which is a violation of Private Property, and thus is a violation of both Justice and Liberty, and is legalized plunder, and institutionalized evil. These things, like slavery itself, ought not to remain in the Constitution if it is to survive.

That's what is meant by befriending and upholding the Constitution, because if the Constitution is not thus STRENGTHENED it will unavoidably self-destruct, as we are witnessing now, because aggressive violence is the definition of EVIL, and it is not "justifiable" before God, but he has forbidden it in all things.

Thus, refusing to remove this injustice from the Constitution is undermining it indeed. But squaring the Constitution with the Non-Aggression principle is befriending and upholding it, which you are commanded to do.

[freedomforall]

God said in his own words that we are justified in befriending and upholding the Constitution which is the law of the land.

He never said that. He made a CONDITIONAL statement:

• And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
  Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
  And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil. (D&C 98:5-7)

If that condition is violated, then, according to him, it "cometh of evil."

Will you say that because slavery was found in the Original Constitution, we are under obligation to "befriend and uphold" slavery? Will you fight to put it back into the Constitution? Why not? Because it violates the strict condition that God gave: "supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind." ONLY that which complies with this strict condition is "justifiable before me," and everything else which is "more or less than this, cometh of evil." This is why we are not commanded to "befriend and uphold" slavery, even though it was in the Original Constitution. What we are commanded to befriend and uphold is that law which is "supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me," not slavery, and not any other error and injustice that is STILL found in the Constitution.

Why did I say that slavery is error and injustice? Because God has said: "Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another." (D&C 101:79)

This is why I said, as the Constitution was already IMPROVED and STRENGTHENED by REMOVING slavery from it, so it must be IMPROVED and STRENGTHENED further, by removing all remaining vestiges of aggressive violence still found in it, especially public taxation of Private Property, which is a violation of Private Property, and thus is a violation of both Justice and Liberty, and is legalized plunder, and institutionalized evil. These things, like slavery itself, ought not to remain in the Constitution if it is to survive.

That's what is meant by befriending and upholding the Constitution, because if the Constitution is not thus STRENGTHENED it will unavoidably self-destruct, as we are witnessing now, because aggressive violence is the definition of EVIL, and it is not "justifiable" before God, but he has forbidden it in all things.

Thus, refusing to remove this injustice from the Constitution is undermining it indeed. But squaring the Constitution with the Non-Aggression principle is befriending and upholding it, which you are commanded to do.

While it is true that it is not right that one be in bondage to another, God also allows it to happen. The Israelites were in bondage for four hundred years and they weren't black.
Also God states we were not to interfere with bond-servants because of their masters which is why, IMO, the abolishment of slavery was not addressed immediately in the Constitution. Slavery is not right, but God allowed it.

Doctrine and Covenants 134:12
12 We believe it just to preach the gospel to the nations of the earth, and warn the righteous to save themselves from the corruption of the world; but we do not believe it right to interfere with bond-servants, neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters, nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life, thereby jeopardizing the lives of men; such interference we believe to be unlawful and unjust, and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in servitude.

I do not wish slavery to be a part of the human existence, nevertheless, we should uphold the Constitution which right now is the only thing we've got between liberty and slavery, freedom and tyranny for all. Waiting to fix it could be detrimental in the meantime. So far it has worked for the Bundy's which is just the way it should be. And they are LDS, or at least Ryan mentioned a relative that joined the church, so I am assuming here.

[LoveIsTruth]

No one is saying to "wait." All the good principles in the Constitution should be applied and used NOW, and all the bad ones should also be removed as soon as possible.

Public taxation of Private Property is the throat of the beast. All the predations, injustice and abominations of government can be traced to it. It is the great enabler of EVERY evil and corruption of the state. THIS is what must change. THIS is what must be abolished for the plague of aggressive violence (which is the definition of evil) that it is, if Liberty is to prevail as God commanded it.

[freedomforall]

No one is saying to "wait." All the good principles in the Constitution should be applied and used NOW, and all the bad ones should also be removed as soon as possible.

Public taxation of Private Property is the throat of the beast. All the predations, injustice and abominations of government can be traced to it. It is the great enabler of EVERY evil and corruption of the state. THIS is what must change. THIS is what must be abolished for the plague of aggressive violence (which is the definition of evil) that it is, if Liberty is to prevail as God commanded it.

You can try to change the spots on a leopard but it still remains a leopard. If God would have wanted the Constitution to read any different than it does, He'd have had it changed when it was written, therefore, He must think it is okay for us to befriend it just the way it is, and the prophets say so. A document God had written will not fall unless the people do. It is the lack of righteousness, not the wording of the Constitution that is faulty. I have done my due diligence to know this.
God raised up the very men who wrote the Constitution as it is. Why fight it? Do you not think God knows what He is doing? The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. Let's keep it that way or live under tyranny. It is wicked men that makes things of God appear less than good. We are to deem the Constitution just as worthy to keep as it is our scriptures, and the prophets have stated as much. Your choice.

[LoveIsTruth]

You can try to change the spots on a leopard but it still remains a leopard. If God would have wanted the Constitution to read any different than it does, He'd have had it changed when it was written, therefore, He must think it is okay for us to befriend it just the way it is, and the prophets say so.

That is wrong, and the wording WAS already changed, according to the word of God, by striking slavery out of it. Will you dispute that? Will you dispute that it was the will of God to CHANGE the original Constitution by removing slavery from it? Will you dispute that? And if slavery was removed from it by the will of God, what is to say that he will not have other imperfections removed from it? What is to say that it is not our duty to strive for such improvement? I say it again, if the abomination of aggressive violence of public taxation of private property is not removed from the Constitution, it will unavoidably self-destruct, because aggressive violence is the very definition of EVIL, according to the word of God himself, and he has forbidden it in all things, just like he said "it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another" (D&C 101:79) about slavery. So you are clearly and demonstrably wrong.

A document God had written will not fall unless the people do. It is the lack of righteousness, not the wording of the Constitution that is faulty.

It is both, or there would not have been the need to changed it by removing slavery from it according to the word of God who said, "it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another." (D&C 101:79)

I have done my due diligence to know this.
God raised up the very men who wrote the Constitution as it is. Why fight it?

Why remove slavery from the Constitution?

Do you not think God knows what He is doing?

Yes He does. It is a test to see whether we will do our duty and honor his word when he said: "it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another." (D&C 101:79) You befriend the Constitution by strengthening it, and you strengthen it by removing every form of aggressive violence from it, because aggressive violence is the very definition of evil. If this is not done, the Constitution WILL die. So much for your "befriending" it by nurturing the very seeds of its own destruction implanted in it. That is dumb. And that is contrary to the command to befriend it. Or would you rather put the slavery back into it for your "befriending?" Think! It is your duty to think! "Prove ALL things; hold fast that which is good." (1 Thes. 5:22)

To "uphold" is to fix, because it will either be fixed, or it will die. Your choice, and you will be judged on that choice. Good luck.

[freedomforall]

You can try to change the spots on a leopard but it still remains a leopard. If God would have wanted the Constitution to read any different than it does, He'd have had it changed when it was written, therefore, He must think it is okay for us to befriend it just the way it is, and the prophets say so.

That is wrong, and the wording WAS already changed, according to the word of God, by striking slavery out of it. Will you dispute that? Will you dispute that it was the will of God to CHANGE the original Constitution by removing slavery from it? Will you dispute that? And if slavery was removed from it by the will of God, what is to say that he will not have other imperfections removed from it? What is to say that it is not our duty to strive for such improvement? I say it again, if the abomination of aggressive violence of public taxation of private property is not removed from the Constitution, it will unavoidably self-destruct, because aggressive violence is the very definition of EVIL, according to the word of God himself, and he has forbidden it in all things, just like he said "it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another" (D&C 101:79) about slavery. So you are clearly and demonstrably wrong.

A document God had written will not fall unless the people do. It is the lack of righteousness, not the wording of the Constitution that is faulty.

It is both, or there would not have been the need to changed it by removing slavery from it according to the word of God who said, "it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another." (D&C 101:79)

I have done my due diligence to know this.
God raised up the very men who wrote the Constitution as it is. Why fight it?

Why remove slavery from the Constitution?

Do you not think God knows what He is doing?

Yes He does. It is a test to see whether we will do our duty and honor his word when he said: "it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another." (D&C 101:79) You befriend the Constitution by strengthening it, and you strengthen it by removing every form of aggressive violence from it, because aggressive violence is the very definition of evil. If this is not done, the Constitution WILL die. So much for your "befriending" it by nurturing the very seeds of its own destruction implanted in it. That is dumb. And that is contrary to the command to befriend it. Or would you rather put the slavery back into it for your "befriending?" Think! It is your duty to think! "Prove ALL things; hold fast that which is good." (1 Thes. 5:22)

To "uphold" is to fix, because it will either be fixed, or it will die. Your choice, and you will be judged on that choice. Too late, you already have judged me, and there was no luck involved, just an evil outburst. Good luck. Since you're opinion is in the minority group, I haven't much to worry about.

You stick to your beliefs. I have already explained and shown you scripture about slavery. I think you just ignore my responses and want to wear blinders. Like I said, you will never convince me that the Constitution will ever die. It ain't goin' to happen. And you're constant talk about slavery is getting old when slavery isn't even an issue and hasn't been for many, many years. In fact it is a very weak premise at this point.
Aggressive violence? Like the government going after Cliven Bundy? If he and his family hadn't had the Constitution to lean on things could have gone a lot worse for them. But he knew his rights and stood up for them to the point that the BLM backed off. But I guess you ignored the video as well. Aggressive violence? Ask why Harry Reid is behind kicking the Bundy's off their ranch. Ask why he calls patriots to the Constitution domestic terrorists. Ask why he wants the land so the Chinese can build a solar power plant there.
The prophets have told us to learn the Constitution because it is what will save a lot of people in a pinch. Cops have been subdued by people knowing their rights. But you just keep thinking the way you do, that's fine.

[LoveIsTruth]

You stick to your beliefs.

Why thank you! I will, because they make perfect since, whereas yours don't.

I have already explained and shown you scripture about slavery.

My point about slavery was, that it was good that slavery was removed from the Constitution, according to the word of God who said that "it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another" (D&C 101:79). Do you have a problem with that?

I think you just ignore my responses and want to wear blinders.

I systematically dismantled your responses word by word. You failed to refute a single word of mine, except to say "Na-na, na-na-na." Let the people judge who proved his case better.

Like I said, you will never convince me that the Constitution will ever die.

Are you lying again? Are you twisting my words? I said it will die IF it is not corrected. And if it will not die, it is BECAUSE it will be corrected of the deadly errors still in it.

And you're constant talk about slavery is getting old when slavery isn't even an issue and hasn't been for many, many years. In fact it is a very weak premise at this point.

Not if you have a brain. The point is that the Constitution was ALREADY IMPROVED according to the word of God himself, by removing slavery from it. This is the point that your are denying. It was improved, in that point, and you are powerless to prove otherwise. That is the point. And if it was already improved, that means it needed improvement because it was imperfect. For if it was perfect no improvement would have been possible. That is the point. Not slavery, but the fact that it was IMPROVED/CHANGED to bring it into greater harmony with the word of God. How dumb can you be?! #:-s

Aggressive violence? Like the government going after Cliven Bundy? If he and his family hadn't had the Constitution to lean on things could have gone a lot worse for them. But he knew his rights and stood up for them to the point that the BLM backed off. But I guess you ignored the video as well.

The Constitution has many good points in it. That's why it should not be discarded but improved, by removing all remaining elements of aggressive violence from it, (and make no mistake it is STILL in it), and aggressive violence is the definition of evil. If this is not done, the Constitution will die. It will self-destruct because of the self-contradictions contained in it.

Aggressive violence? Ask why Harry Reid is behind kicking the Bundy's off their ranch. Ask why he calls patriots to the Constitution domestic terrorists. Ask why he wants the land so the Chinese can build a solar power plant there.

Straw-man. Am I defending aggressive violence, or Harry Reid? By the same logic I could instruct you to ask Hitler why he killed so many people, and thus imply that you support him. Not an honest trick on your part, friend. ;)

The prophets have told us to learn the Constitution

Please do. Then maybe you will be able to save it from the seeds of its own destruction implanted in its foundation. Constitution must be fixed or die, and you are not helping it to survive.

[freedomforall]

You stick to your beliefs.

Why thank you! I will, because they make perfect since, whereas yours don't. I can understand why. :))

I have already explained and shown you scripture about slavery.

My point about slavery was, that it was good that slavery was removed from the Constitution, according to the word of God who said that "it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another" (D&C 101:79). Do you have a problem with that? Apparently you ignored the scripture i posted. And that is a problem indeed.

I think you just ignore my responses and want to wear blinders.

I systematically dismantled your responses word by word. You failed to refute a single word of mine, except to say "Na-na, na-na-na." You haven't dismantled anything, and constantly refute your own words by ignoring what the prophets have said, including scripture. Let the people judge who proved his case better.

Like I said, you will never convince me that the Constitution will ever die.

Are you lying again? Are you twisting my words? I said it will die IF it is not corrected. And if it will not die, it is BECAUSE it will be corrected of the deadly errors still in it. God had the Constitution written by men He chose, so are you saying that God is deadly? Can't you see what you are implying?

And you're constant talk about slavery is getting old when slavery isn't even an issue and hasn't been for many, many years. In fact it is a very weak premise at this point.

Not if you have a brain. Ditto. The point is that the Constitution was ALREADY IMPROVED according to the word of God himself, by removing slavery from it. This is the point that your are denying. It was improved, in that point, and you are powerless to prove otherwise. The only thing I need to prove is what the prophets have already said. And you know more than they? That is the point. And if it was already improved, that means it needed improvement because it was imperfect. For if it was perfect no improvement would have been possible. That is the point. Not slavery, but the fact that it was IMPROVED/CHANGED to bring it into greater harmony with the word of God. How dumb can you be? I'm always a few yards behind you.! #:-s

Aggressive violence? Like the government going after Cliven Bundy? If he and his family hadn't had the Constitution to lean on things could have gone a lot worse for them. But he knew his rights and stood up for them to the point that the BLM backed off. But I guess you ignored the video as well.

The Constitution has many good points in it. That's why it should not be discarded but improved, by removing all remaining elements of aggressive violence from it, (and make no mistake it is STILL in it), and aggressive violence is the definition of evil. If this is not done, the Constitution will die. It will self-destruct because of the self-contradictions contained in it.

Aggressive violence? Ask why Harry Reid is behind kicking the Bundy's off their ranch. Ask why he calls patriots to the Constitution domestic terrorists. Ask why he wants the land so the Chinese can build a solar power plant there.

Straw-man. Am I defending aggressive violence, or Harry Reid? By the same logic I could instruct you to ask Hitler Who's talking about Hitler? why he killed so many people, and thus imply that you support him. Not an honest trick on your part, friend. ;) I am right and that is all there is to it, no matter how many names you call me. At this point this is all your good at. Your name calling doesn't effect me, but it sure will you at the last day. :-ss

The prophets have told us to learn the Constitution

Please do. Then maybe you will be able to save it from the seeds of its own destruction implanted in its foundation. Constitution must be fixed or die, and you are not helping it to survive. Did you read the Jerome Horowitz booklet about there being two Constitutions? And you say I am not helping the Founders Constitution survive? You're a funny man. :))

Have you read "An Enemy Hath done This" by Ezra Taft Benson?
Have you read "Prophets, Principles and National Survival?
Have you read "Latter-day Prophets And The United States Constitution?
Have you read "A Glorious Standard For All Mankind?
Have you read "The United States Has Two Constitutions?

AND YOU CALL ME DUMB?

[Robert Sinclair]

Love the start of this post-
Private property is "Justice" and "Liberty"

Maybe that's why Jesus Christ commanded every family be given deeds with a covenant that cannot be broken? section 42:30.