The Destruction of America [Not Cleansing]

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dennis
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The Destruction of America [Not Cleansing]

Post by dennis »

In a thread about deceiving and being deceived [Never before have so many been so completely deceived by so few for so long] I was asked to give an example. So here goes my attempt to share what bothers me when I read comments on the form that are not technically in line with what the scriptures say.

In the scriptures the word cleanse is most often associated with the meaning of being clean or free from sin. other similar words are wash purify spotless baptism, cleanliness white and worthy.
Destruction on the other hand is associated with the meaning of being wicked and suffering destruction both temporally and spiritually. Similar words used in the index are ; burn calamity, captivity, earthquake famine fire flood hail iniquity judgment last days overthrow pestilence plague ruin scourge slaughter slay smite sweep tempest thrash tribulation vengeance war waste wrath.
In Ether chapter 8 Moroni is warning us to be awake to our awful situation , after discussing the destruction of the Jaredite and Nephite civilizations caused by secret combinations gaining power.
It would be difficult to count the number of times cleansing is improperly used on this form to describe the events in the last days involving the destruction of the country called the United States.
The scriptures do refer to a chastening of Zion until she is cleansed, but Zion is not the nation. or the government.
I would suggest that it is misleading to refer to the destruction as a cleansing. Just as it is misleading to not include home production in our preparation and focus only on storage.

Yes I am suggesting that to be awake, one needs to be aware of the implications of the destruction of the nation and to preach the false doctrine of the cleansing is deceptive . There are many who can explain this concept much better than I have., but I do believe the basic concept is correct.

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pjbrownie
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Re: The Destruction of America [Not Cleansing]

Post by pjbrownie »

dennis wrote:In a thread about deceiving and being deceived [Never before have so many been so completely deceived by so few for so long] I was asked to give an example. So here goes my attempt to share what bothers me when I read comments on the form that are not technically in line with what the scriptures say.

In the scriptures the word cleanse is most often associated with the meaning of being clean or free from sin. other similar words are wash purify spotless baptism, cleanliness white and worthy.
Destruction on the other hand is associated with the meaning of being wicked and suffering destruction both temporally and spiritually. Similar words used in the index are ; burn calamity, captivity, earthquake famine fire flood hail iniquity judgment last days overthrow pestilence plague ruin scourge slaughter slay smite sweep tempest thrash tribulation vengeance war waste wrath.
In Ether chapter 8 Moroni is warning us to be awake to our awful situation , after discussing the destruction of the Jaredite and Nephite civilizations caused by secret combinations gaining power.
It would be difficult to count the number of times cleansing is improperly used on this form to describe the events in the last days involving the destruction of the country called the United States.
The scriptures do refer to a chastening of Zion until she is cleansed, but Zion is not the nation. or the government.
I would suggest that it is misleading to refer to the destruction as a cleansing. Just as it is misleading to not include home production in our preparation and focus only on storage.

Yes I am suggesting that to be awake, one needs to be aware of the implications of the destruction of the nation and to preach the false doctrine of the cleansing is deceptive . There are many who can explain this concept much better than I have., but I do believe the basic concept is correct.
I think your argument is nothing but semantics. Whether you call it a cleansing or destruction, it has the same result, the wicked are destroyed.

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friendsofthe
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Re: The Destruction of America [Not Cleansing]

Post by friendsofthe »

Dennis
This is a forum on freedom for those who subscribe to the LDS point of view. I don’t think it was ever intended that all comments or opinions should have to conform to a strictly to scriptural definitions. So we don’t have to use a word or not use a word based upon it’s scriptural context. The word cleansing as used by Skousen and others, many on this forum, is not an incorrect usage. It’s simply a different usage. The meaning of words is always somewhat shaped by the context in which they are used. JMHO

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Original_Intent
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Re: The Destruction of America [Not Cleansing]

Post by Original_Intent »

I agree with you that the cleansing of the land of America will involve the destruction of the government of America.

I also feel either you have misunderstood the way cleansing has usually been used, or I disagree with you.

The cleansing is going to be passing thru the refiner's fire. This is obviously both a purification from the perspective of the good material and a destruction for the impurities.

So I agree with you if you are saying that the government is just going to be cleansed and reformed - I believe the government will be destroyed. However, I do believe that the correct principles of the Constitution will be championed and will form the basis of the post-cleansing/destruction government. I believe that will occur before the coming in glory, because I believe that "cleansed" government will be the government of Zion and the Kingdom of God, which will be in place when He whose right it is to rule returns.

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Zowieink
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Re: The Destruction of America [Not Cleansing]

Post by Zowieink »

I believe I understand what Dennis is suggesting. Here's a practical example: A group of my longtime friends and I got together and starting talking about he prophecies concerning America. One brother firmly believes that the wicked will be "cleansed" from the United States and that the govenment will continue after all the "bad" guys are gone. This will be the government of the millineum. Another brother feels that as members of the Church we will be protected, no matter what, from the destructions, plagues, and things that will leave the United States ready for the members of the Church (who were protected during the cataclysims) to fill in the empty shell of the existing government.

I also agree with OI and PJ in that the earth itself must be cleansed of the wickedness that is upon it (thus, the area of New Jerusalem, etc. will be swept clean so that "not so much as a yellow dog" will be found. I also think that we as members of the Church must be cleansed from the "blood and sins" of this generation(s), as in the plagues etc. shall begin on (in) My house. Some of postulated that this means that it will begin in the Temple and affect unworthy members that have entered, or that the corporate side of the Church will be the place of beginning.

The destruction of the government of the United States is certain, as well as the destruction of major cities and areas of the United States. It is also certain that the members of the Church will be cleansed, perhaps by the same method or ?. We will be brought to our knees and refined as with fuller's soap or the refiner's fire. WE must be. How many priesthood holders and members of the Church are spiritually ready to take on the building of the Temple in NJ, or of setting up governments for the millineum. Through our afflictions we will be refined, and through our temple attendence, tithing, FO, and literally giving everything we have to the Lord we will be sustained through the tough times. In other words, destruction and cleansing have double meanings in that the US will be destroyed and the government cleansed as well as the people of the US, and we as members of the Church. Remember, the scriptures speak only of a remnant that is left...

BlueMoon5
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Re: The Destruction of America [Not Cleansing]

Post by BlueMoon5 »

dennis wrote: . . . I am suggesting that to be awake, one needs to be aware of the implications of the destruction of the nation and to preach the false doctrine of the cleansing is deceptive .
The two words do, indeed, have discrete meanings, but it's understandable--given human nature--why some members use them interchangeably or incorrectly. As individual members, we must be clean (free of sin and obedient to the commandments) to receive the cleansing power of the Holy Ghost; a cleansing must take place in our lives. Otherwise, we reject Christ's atoning sacrifice. Ultimately, however, because individuals constitute our country, a cleansing of the populace as a whole must take place. If that fails to happen (and we know that such failure is inevitable preparatory to our Lord's return), the destruction of our nation will be the result.

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gruden2.0
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Re: The Destruction of America [Not Cleansing]

Post by gruden2.0 »

Thanks, dennis, for a thoughtful post.

What is being cleansed is the land. This land, as we are told in the BoM, is set aside for those who serve the Lord. We either have to shape up or the Lord will ship us out. Destruction cleanses a land and a people as a collective, not individuals.

We should never assume that this cleansing applies to others and not to oneself. The questions we need to ask ourselves is if we, as individuals, are ready to live celestial law in Zion, as well honestly to ourselves answer the questions Alma poses in Alma 5.

If we are not ready, then we will be included in the purification process, and it will not be pleasant. If we respond properly and allow ourselves to be refined in the refiner's fire, we will most likely remain. If not, we will be swept off as well. The Lord is no respecter of persons. Your church membership or even temple recommend will not give you an exemption if you don't make the grade.

Better to do it now. The Lord will more easily be found now than later.

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