Is cosmetic surgery evil?

A place for conservative women to discuss true women's liberation, the role of women in healing America, the truth about feminism and more...
braingrunt
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2042

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by braingrunt »

I think there's some irony in your post, because first you say it's a shame that we judge each other by our appearance, but then you say it's ok for a person to judge their worth as improved by plastic.

davedan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3064
Location: Augusta, GA
Contact:

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by davedan »

I am thankful for oral surgery and orthodontist. It fixed my son's disfiguring overbite caused by a tendancy to push his tongue against front teeth when he swallowed. It took 4 years of tooth extractions, braces, and head gear to fix.

I thinkconsmetic surgery is okay if you do it to "look normal" for your age and probably not okay if you are doing it to "look better" than your age. Maybe we should ask if we are doing it to correct a disfigurement vs for pure vanity sake.

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 974

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by TrueIntent »

braingrunt wrote:I think there's some irony in your post, because first you say it's a shame that we judge each other by our appearance, but then you say it's ok for a person to judge their worth as improved by plastic.
Nope didn't say that....what I'm saying is cut some women some slack. Our bodies are destroyed because of childbirth...don't judge them because they may "sin" differently than you....if it even is a sin..(that's an opinion). .If you haven't walked in their shoes...and I mean their whole life experience...then don't judge. There are reasons why some women are more image conscious than others...some of Them not because of vanity, but because they were married to men who criticized their appearance, or because they had low self esteem because of their image, Don't judge because you don't know. That's what I was saying.

I also think it is ignorant for someone to judge women because they try to "upgrade" their appearance. Look at the cover of every magazine on the shelf...even the most beautiful women, we photoshop. There is a lot of pressure on women....so to simply say , just accept yourself...I agree..we should accept ourselves....easier said than done...it's easier to be less judgmental and assume we are all doing our best.

User avatar
Melissa
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1697

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Melissa »

TrueIntent wrote:
braingrunt wrote:I think there's some irony in your post, because first you say it's a shame that we judge each other by our appearance, but then you say it's ok for a person to judge their worth as improved by plastic.
Nope didn't say that....what I'm saying is cut some women some slack. Our bodies are destroyed because of childbirth...don't judge them because they may "sin" differently than you....if it even is a sin..(that's an opinion). .If you haven't walked in their shoes...and I mean their whole life experience...then don't judge. There are reasons why some women are more image conscious than others...some of Them not because of vanity, but because they were married to men who criticized their appearance, or because they had low self esteem because of their image, Don't judge because you don't know. That's what I was saying.

I also think it is ignorant for someone to judge women because they try to "upgrade" their appearance. Look at the cover of every magazine on the shelf...even the most beautiful women, we photoshop. There is a lot of pressure on women....so to simply say , just accept yourself...I agree..we should accept ourselves....easier said than done...it's easier to be less judgmental and assume we are all doing our best.
Good points, we often are too quick to judge. It's a human weakness.

Those models that are on the covers of magazines say they feel bad about themselves too. They feel bad because not even they look like that. Can you imagine how terrible that must feel? The declared most beautiful woman gets the cover shoot and she then has to walk around feeling bad or embarrassed, hiding her imperfections because they photoshoped her to look better than she does.

Ever since I heard that I had compassion on women who appear in those magazines and saw them as normal human beings that deal with the same garbage the rest of us do.

The whole thing is sad. The pressure women go through cannot be understood unless you are a woman. And with the overwhelming presence of sex and intimacy and pornography...it's really sad. I wish women could just be women - men would still want them, they are designed to.
But we would have to work together as men and women to change how things are. I just don't see that ever happening until the evil of the world is done away with.

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 8237
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by creator »

Vanity is the key word here. It's all about the "why".

braingrunt
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2042

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by braingrunt »

TrueIntent wrote:
braingrunt wrote:I think there's some irony in your post, because first you say it's a shame that we judge each other by our appearance, but then you say it's ok for a person to judge their worth as improved by plastic.
Nope didn't say that....what I'm saying is cut some women some slack. Our bodies are destroyed because of childbirth...don't judge them because they may "sin" differently than you....if it even is a sin..(that's an opinion). .If you haven't walked in their shoes...and I mean their whole life experience...then don't judge. There are reasons why some women are more image conscious than others...some of Them not because of vanity, but because they were married to men who criticized their appearance, or because they had low self esteem because of their image, Don't judge because you don't know. That's what I was saying.

I also think it is ignorant for someone to judge women because they try to "upgrade" their appearance. Look at the cover of every magazine on the shelf...even the most beautiful women, we photoshop. There is a lot of pressure on women....so to simply say , just accept yourself...I agree..we should accept ourselves....easier said than done...it's easier to be less judgmental and assume we are all doing our best.
See, you said it again. It's sitting there plainly between the lines: They esteem themselves less because of their image and maybe will esteem themselves more because of some plastic so we shouldn't judge. And maybe it's a man's fault but that doesn't mean the problem and irony is not as I stated, that they are caving to and reinforcing beauty judgements which are shallow and approaching evil in my opinion. And you're saying, maybe it's ok.

I hope you'll realize, I'm not advocating pointing the finger of scorn or casting stones, nor am I saying I'm free from sin even in this area. It's just that I want to accept truths and realities, to the extent I can, which will "tend to life and salvation". Not so I can be holier-than-thou, but because I have a testimony that living commandments though they do not save, really is a way to happify and streamline life when accompanied with humility and charity, which if you have everything else but not that, it don't count.

So, with that testimony, I again assert, "yknow, this aint good. Let's repent"

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 974

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by TrueIntent »

Remember when the Pharisees said they kept the whole law? Christ said they never kept the whole law. Neither do you. You don't get to pick and choose which portion you keep and then judge others by it. This is what the scriptures call hypocrisy. Judge not lest ye be judged. The truth that you can't accept that a very wise person taught me is that "it's not what you do, it's who you become". We shouldn't judge others because of what they choose to do during their low points or high points. Maybe it's good...bad....or maybe it's just enough to give them what they need to move forward. The only thing that matters is coming to Christ. Until we come to Christ (this is more than just keeping commandments) we are not saved. Keeping 99 out of 100 commandments won't save you. But the woman with the breast implants who came to Christ who kept 50 out of 100 commandments will be saved.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Fiannan »

capctr wrote:
Fiannan wrote:When we reach the stage of replacing our bodies with cybernetic parts/entire systems would it be immoral to do so, I mean if we keep the brain and spinal cord of the original person? Many scientists predict this is in our future.
Yeah, this is a minor fear of mine-if physical enhancement a'la Captain America ever become a technological possibility, how will I ever resist???LOL
First, we are attracted to traits that allow us to determine if a potential mate will produce desirable children (health, intelligence, looks). So in a sense we are advertising our genetic quality every time we venture out in public.

I have read that some scientists are worried that cosmetic enhancement could trick people into mating with otherwise undesirable partners. That of course is looking at the issue strictly from a scientific point of view. However, I will note that a man in China married a beautiful woman and then had what the press said was a child that didn't live up to his expectations. He got suspicious and found out his wife had undergone cosmetic enhancement before they met. He sued and the court ruled in his favor.

Genetic enhancement will of course allow humans to choose traits they want prior to birth. This means two unattractive people could supply a fertilized egg and then genes from other individuals, or synthetically produced, can replace the original genes the couple want taken away. The child will be born, perhaps 49% the woman and 49% the man, but 2% composed of genes from other sources. The results in the germline will be passed on through that person's offspring. Eventually we could have a society of beautiful, intelligent, physically fit individuals of all races, or should I say combinations as, for instance, a Japanese could could have a Japanese child with blonde hair and green eyes.

Soon afterwards we will also be able to replace human parts with synthetic options. A person will be able to go in, have their legs amputated, and replaced with superior alternatives. Yes, transhumanism is in our future. And so what we are doing today is nothing but cutting, nipping, tucking, burning or whatever to alter our appearance. Tomorrow it will be much better.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5967896/us-spy-a ... re-by-2030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Earth...welcome back to the age of Noah.

capctr
captain of 100
Posts: 424

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by capctr »

Fiannan wrote:
capctr wrote:
Fiannan wrote:When we reach the stage of replacing our bodies with cybernetic parts/entire systems would it be immoral to do so, I mean if we keep the brain and spinal cord of the original person? Many scientists predict this is in our future.
Yeah, this is a minor fear of mine-if physical enhancement a'la Captain America ever become a technological possibility, how will I ever resist???LOL
First, we are attracted to traits that allow us to determine if a potential mate will produce desirable children (health, intelligence, looks). So in a sense we are advertising our genetic quality every time we venture out in public.

I have read that some scientists are worried that cosmetic enhancement could trick people into mating with otherwise undesirable partners. That of course is looking at the issue strictly from a scientific point of view. However, I will note that a man in China married a beautiful woman and then had what the press said was a child that didn't live up to his expectations. He got suspicious and found out his wife had undergone cosmetic enhancement before they met. He sued and the court ruled in his favor.

Genetic enhancement will of course allow humans to choose traits they want prior to birth. This means two unattractive people could supply a fertilized egg and then genes from other individuals, or synthetically produced, can replace the original genes the couple want taken away. The child will be born, perhaps 49% the woman and 49% the man, but 2% composed of genes from other sources. The results in the germline will be passed on through that person's offspring. Eventually we could have a society of beautiful, intelligent, physically fit individuals of all races, or should I say combinations as, for instance, a Japanese could could have a Japanese child with blonde hair and green eyes.

Soon afterwards we will also be able to replace human parts with synthetic options. A person will be able to go in, have their legs amputated, and replaced with superior alternatives. Yes, transhumanism is in our future. And so what we are doing today is nothing but cutting, nipping, tucking, burning or whatever to alter our appearance. Tomorrow it will be much better.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5967896/us-spy-a ... re-by-2030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Earth...welcome back to the age of Noah.
Where, exactly, did this idea of advanced genetic science in the days of Noah come from?

User avatar
Red
captain of 100
Posts: 613

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Red »

Robin Hood wrote:In most cases it is evil, yes.
That's kinda hurtful. I'm a pretty good girl and I've had plastics, microblading, and other stuff. For me it was just fixing what I had before children. I'm still the same person. I'm kind, generous, and I follow Christ. I'm not evil. Fortunately I have enough self worth to not care what you say, but remember, women like me are still children of God. Be kind.

User avatar
Red
captain of 100
Posts: 613

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Red »

Wow, y'all are really harsh on women who have had work done. Breast tissue atrophies after breastfeeding much like a parapalegic's muscles atrophy. It cannot be fixed or changed with chest exercises. I chose to have breast augmentation bc I wanted to be the same size I was before I had children. It would be tacky for me to tell you my size exactly, but my breast tissue atrophy was so severe that I could wear a training bra. That's sad for me; I don't want to look like a boy. I breastfed for years bc I had my kids so close together. I was young and I felt like it was ok to have what I used to. My children destroyed my body. I give them everything, including fostering their faith in God. I saved my money and bought my implants. It was not a financial hardship for my family and I paid in cash. My boobs look remarkably natural and they feel natural bc I picked the best surgeon in my state. I did not do it for vanity. I did it bc I valued my self identity. I don't want to be defined by my children. I want to be defined by myself and influenced by Christ. I bought back what I sacrificed for God and my kids. I wear very little makeup, I'm not vain, I'm kind, I would give you the shirt off my back and not ask questions if you said you needed it.

I do wonder this: if you're reading this and you're honest with yourself, are you vehement about the subject bc you're jealous that you haven't had the surgery (or your wife hasn't) or jealous bc you don't have the extra cash on hand? Every person I've ever known that was cruel about the subject was cruel bc they were jealous of the extra money or the advantage of having had the surgery. Please don't answer that here, just be truthful with yourself bc your vehemence is not conducive to the peace of others when you're rude or assumptive about it.

User avatar
Red
captain of 100
Posts: 613

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Red »

capctr wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
capctr wrote:
Fiannan wrote:When we reach the stage of replacing our bodies with cybernetic parts/entire systems would it be immoral to do so, I mean if we keep the brain and spinal cord of the original person? Many scientists predict this is in our future.
Yeah, this is a minor fear of mine-if physical enhancement a'la Captain America ever become a technological possibility, how will I ever resist???LOL
First, we are attracted to traits that allow us to determine if a potential mate will produce desirable children (health, intelligence, looks). So in a sense we are advertising our genetic quality every time we venture out in public.

I have read that some scientists are worried that cosmetic enhancement could trick people into mating with otherwise undesirable partners. That of course is looking at the issue strictly from a scientific point of view. However, I will note that a man in China married a beautiful woman and then had what the press said was a child that didn't live up to his expectations. He got suspicious and found out his wife had undergone cosmetic enhancement before they met. He sued and the court ruled in his favor.

Genetic enhancement will of course allow humans to choose traits they want prior to birth. This means two unattractive people could supply a fertilized egg and then genes from other individuals, or synthetically produced, can replace the original genes the couple want taken away. The child will be born, perhaps 49% the woman and 49% the man, but 2% composed of genes from other sources. The results in the germline will be passed on through that person's offspring. Eventually we could have a society of beautiful, intelligent, physically fit individuals of all races, or should I say combinations as, for instance, a Japanese could could have a Japanese child with blonde hair and green eyes.

Soon afterwards we will also be able to replace human parts with synthetic options. A person will be able to go in, have their legs amputated, and replaced with superior alternatives. Yes, transhumanism is in our future. And so what we are doing today is nothing but cutting, nipping, tucking, burning or whatever to alter our appearance. Tomorrow it will be much better.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5967896/us-spy-a ... re-by-2030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Earth...welcome back to the age of Noah.
Where, exactly, did this idea of advanced genetic science in the days of Noah come from?
I could be wrong but I think maybe he could be talking about a purge, as in the days of Noah? Or maybe not. It's late.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Fiannan »

Where, exactly, did this idea of advanced genetic science in the days of Noah come from?
First, where did the notion that God created Adam and Eve and then sent them out as cave people into the world come from? Didn't God converse with both of them, and their immediate children even after they were sent out? We can only speculate what intelligence they had, but we are told that as the population grew the "sons of God" came down and started breeding with the women (nothing about rape, they were probably seen as rock stars or celebrities today, and the women wanted their seed). I will also note that I have no clue who these dudes were. The only other mention I know of is in the first chapter of Job where God is meeting with the "sons of God" (kinda like a corporate board meeting) and Lucifer comes in and starts a discussion.
Some people say the offspring of the unions of these guys and earthly women were called Nephilim, and were giants. I am not sure. I heard in Church once that the human race was once extremely tall and had shrunk over the centuries. No matter, the Book of Jasher said that the people learned how to mix the species and the subsequent alterations of God's creation was to show rebellion against God. Cave people do not know how to change DNA. We are barely grasping its possibilities. And note, Jesus did say He would return when mankind had returned to the era of Noah.

So yes, we will learn how to design people the way we design cars. We will also be able to mix and match species, create advanced robots and cyborgs and also be able to eventually become immortal. We will be as Gods, right?

User avatar
francisco.colaco
captain of 100
Posts: 950
Location: Portugal

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by francisco.colaco »

Robin Hood wrote:In most cases it is evil, yes.
Cosmetic surgery is also used for reconstructive purposes, to treat birth defects or defigurating accidents.

Sometimes, a better aspect can be given to a person whose congenital heritage is not really worth to be qualified a blessing. There are such people. In this case, better looks also means more self-esteem and an improved quality of life.

Let us not throw the baby away with the water.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Fiannan »

Oh, by the way, God said it was an everlasting covenant to Abraham's descendants that males had to be circumcised. You know, that everlasting thing...was it done away with, as in everlasting was not really permanent? Circumcision is cosmetic.

As for who are literally descended from Abraham, a glance at a patriarchal blessing would indicate that.

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13110
Location: England

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Robin Hood »

Fiannan wrote:Oh, by the way, God said it was an everlasting covenant to Abraham's descendants that males had to be circumcised. You know, that everlasting thing...was it done away with, as in everlasting was not really permanent? Circumcision is cosmetic.

As for who are literally descended from Abraham, a glance at a patriarchal blessing would indicate that.
The covenant is everlasting.
The sign of the covenant isn't.
It is important to know the difference.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Fiannan »

Robin Hood wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Oh, by the way, God said it was an everlasting covenant to Abraham's descendants that males had to be circumcised. You know, that everlasting thing...was it done away with, as in everlasting was not really permanent? Circumcision is cosmetic.

As for who are literally descended from Abraham, a glance at a patriarchal blessing would indicate that.
The covenant is everlasting.
The sign of the covenant isn't.
It is important to know the difference.
Tell that to a Jew or Muslim.

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13110
Location: England

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Robin Hood »

Fiannan wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Oh, by the way, God said it was an everlasting covenant to Abraham's descendants that males had to be circumcised. You know, that everlasting thing...was it done away with, as in everlasting was not really permanent? Circumcision is cosmetic.

As for who are literally descended from Abraham, a glance at a patriarchal blessing would indicate that.
The covenant is everlasting.
The sign of the covenant isn't.
It is important to know the difference.
Tell that to a Jew or Muslim.
Or an American!

Why are so many Americans circumcised?

braingrunt
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2042

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by braingrunt »

Circumcision is still a sign of the covenant. Even though my boys aren't circumcised I'm going to teach them about it because then they'll have some frame of reference for "circumcision of the heart".

User avatar
Original_Intent
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13008

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Original_Intent »

Are bras evil? I mean, in general, the purpose is the same, to give the girls a lift/appear younger/defy gravity. I mean, I understand sports bras serve a purpose so you aren't bouncing all over while you run, etc.

On the other hand you have someone who is like a burn victim or whatever - the argument could be made that plastic surgery is still "vanity" - but it could also be perhaps more understandable than someone who just wants a nip/tuck.

IDK. My wife and I have always been in the camp of don't cover our gray hairs, it's just part of life and let aging just happen. Try to be healthy, sure, but don't feel the need to present a false image to the world. But that's us, I don;t condemn others who feel different, just like I hope vegans and others who live more healthy than me, I hope they don't condemn me for eating a good meat portion two meals per day. Their way is probably superior. We all have faults that we need to work on.

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by eddie »

I told my Mother to stop while I could still recognize her in a crowd.

BEFORE

Image

AFTER

Image

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by eddie »

SHE DID FUNDRAISERS

Image

SOLD ALL HER PLANTS

Image

User avatar
shadow
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10542
Location: St. George

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by shadow »

I told Mark he should stop his quest for cosmetic surgery to change him into his favorite pet. He never listens.
Mark goes meow
Mark goes meow
image.png (204.31 KiB) Viewed 7136 times

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by eddie »

Image

braingrunt
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2042

Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by braingrunt »

It occurs to me now that cosmetic surgery is a form of self-mutilation. The definition fits pretty well.

Self-mutilation:
the mutilation of oneself, especially as a symptom of mental or emotional disturbance.

Mutilate:
to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts.

Post Reply