Is cosmetic surgery evil?

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capctr
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Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by capctr »

As my wife and I lay in bed, she mentioned a desire to get Botox injections and a breastlift/reduction.
I'm not sure how I feel about this-It's one thing to hit the gym, improve nutrition, and get in shape, but surgical modification? Wouldn't God frown on that if it were elective? What do you think, sisters?
Oh yeah, they also have arm lifts for the mythical "RS-armsLOL).

braingrunt
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by braingrunt »

I think it is not good. It sets a bad example for everyone as women recraft their bodies. If the trend becomes very prevalent, there will be a growing divide between nature and expectation, which can't be healthy for anyone's sanity.

I'm sure the desire to look good is not evil. However, without care that desire can be manipulated by the devil and Babylon, to at least cause you stress, sadness and inconvenience... and at worst to become idolatry.

capctr
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by capctr »

I know there are situations where it is the healthier option, such as somebody who has sustained scarring through trauma, or even...I dunno, someone who loses a 100+ pounds in an effort to be healthy, and gets a radical tummy tuck to avoid tripping over excess skin, etc...
but the whole "nip'n'tuck mentality? Nah.

Fiannan
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Fiannan »

Beautiful people get better treatment and make more money. And youth is a premium commodity. Why not get a few wrinkles removed through laser treatment?

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David13
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by David13 »

I'm basically against it.
It's vanity.
And an inability to accept reality, and who you are.
It's all part of a syndrome, be somebody who you are not. Not good.
dc

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Robin Hood
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Robin Hood »

In most cases it is evil, yes.

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Lexew1899
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Lexew1899 »

There are all kinds of cosmetic surgery that are pretty benign. So I don't know that I would call it evil. Repairing a babies cleft pallet for example. Breast reconstruction following a mastectomy. LASIK surgery for improving vision.

As far as tummy tucks and breast implants, I guess that is really up to the person making the decision. I would probably rather use the money on something more productive, but I really wouldn't call a person evil for doing such things.

The church is generally against body modification, so i would imagine moderation and avoiding some weird kind of body dysmorphia would be advisable.

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Melissa
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Melissa »

Here's a different perspective....

If a man's genitals were innapropriately sized for him to properly function would it be okay for him to try and do those enlargement things that are available? Of course it would, and no one would even know or care because he's just trying to be able to have children and perform and please a wife etc. Wouldn't ever be a question of vanity.

Womens bodies are the focus of sexuality. Women are put under a magnifying glass and their ability to remain desirable enough for sex is dependent mainly on their attractiveness. So to get a lift or reduction is reasonable. An implant is not. That is fake and adding artifical junk to appear different than you are. That is vanity!

Working with what you already have to improve or make to be more comfortable or function better is reasonable and should be left to the conscience of the individual.

I don't give a care one bit if women wanted to lift them selves a bit, that's what a bra does anyways. My issue is with women who modify and add silicone then show it off to everyone else's husband to feel better about herself. That's wrong.

Don't know about botox, seems like it only prolongs the enviable as its temporary. I sure wish we didn't shame women for the natural processes of aging. A guy can go bald and get a gut and go grey and lose muscle and no one even bats an eye, but the female loses fullness and gets wrinkles or saggy skin and she is OLD and undesired.

That's the biggest Shame of the whole thing, and nearly every person contributes to keeping that going. Your wife ages or has a baby etc. And you look at porn, it shames your wife beyond belief!

It's too bad women have to be scrutinized so much.

Fiannan
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Fiannan »

Braces. That is cosmetic and often involves surgery or extracting.

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passionflower
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by passionflower »

David13 wrote:I'm basically against it.
It's vanity.
And an inability to accept reality, and who you are.
It's all part of a syndrome, be somebody who you are not. Not good.
dc

Not to mention how superficial it all is.

This is all just a big feminist thing, anyway, and part of a youth culture that should never have been allowed. The whole thing is just really another one of the extreme things going on to day and is just plain dumb.

Men just age slower and better than women do, so to offset this, a huge industry has developed to keep insecure women looking younger than they really are for reasons of sexual enhancement and exaggeration. Plus this kind of surgery is expensive, is seldom permanent, all too often backfires, and can even become addictive.

It's nice for women to do what they can to feel younger, healthier and more attractive, but this doesn't need to be taken to a surgical extreme, because feeling this way is mostly an inside job. The youthful feminine appeal that is genuinely attractive starts with a sincere smile, bright happy eyes, good grooming, dressing well, and a warm secure personality that never fails to show a positive interest in others. Unfortunately, traits like these fall down faster than faces, breasts and backsides as women age, and instead this kind of charming woman is very rare. Instead we have a generation of control freaks who can't seem to possess enough clothing, jewelry, shoes, purses, expensive cosmetics and make up, and see cosmetic surgery as just another avenue of more control over other people and their response to them( therefore their own feelings about themselves).

There's your syndrome, David13, and no it sure isn't "good".

I am sure you have met plenty of women in your lifetime who were very attractive in this outward worldly sense, but after you got to knowing them better their "beauty" was almost repulsive.

But on the other hand, if you have ever met a woman who was kind of homely, but after you got to know her she revealed a tremendous beauty and attractiveness within, I bet every time you saw her you thought she was very beautiful to see no matter what her physical flaws might actually have been. And to this day, you would still remember her, no matter how long ago that was.

Beauty and glamour are still more than skin deep, and so are lasting relationships and career success, even for women.

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passionflower
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by passionflower »

Fiannan wrote:Braces. That is cosmetic and often involves surgery or extracting.

I can always tell if someone has had braces because of their phony looking "Osmond" smile.

This social need to "grin" all the time to show friendliness is a very modern phenomena, and it looks goofy, ridiculous and insincere and like your mouth has too many teeth. I like the "good-old-days" when grinning your head off in a family photograph to the word "cheese" would have been considered crazy looking ( it is, actually ). There is no dignity or real character shown in todays' toothy photographs, just everyone grinning at the same time looking in the same place, and believing the superficial lie that somehow they have an "improved " appearance by doing so. I wonder if the grins are just hiding what would otherwise be a sad-to-say "empty" face behind them.

Some teeth are so crooked that a dentist can't get in to clean them, so neither can a tooth brush, so a brace to straighten this out could have some real merit, but mostly braces on teeth are an unnecessary expense ( and I do mean EXPENSE!) , that just gives children another form of torture added to their adolescence. I have heard that bad side effects are now being seen in adults who some 25 years ago had their wisdom teeth to accommodate braces. I think this is only the beginning of the problems we will see from this epidemic of braces ( like every kid has them),

David Christopher says crooked teeth are actually preventable, BTW, and his kids never had braces.

And as per your previous post, if a woman wants to be treated better, or have preferential treatment, she ought to just try wearing a nice dress, fix her hair and act the part of a nice as well as intelligent lady. It works for me EVERY time, ANYWHERE. I have never had a job interview wherein I did not get offered the job, and that was without going under the knife or getting laser treatments.

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ajax
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by ajax »

It's not evil. Who am I to rip someone who wants to lift a little sag.

Perhaps it's evil to suggest it's evil.

capctr
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by capctr »

Thank you for the responses, they've really helped put words to some concerns.
I understand why my wife wants a breast reduction, as having such things pulling me forward would REALLY irritate me. But to willfully damage such glorious beauty(I even showed her before/after pics to impress upon her the severity of the scarring)? Not a fan.

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passionflower
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by passionflower »

capctr wrote:Thank you for the responses, they've really helped put words to some concerns.
I understand why my wife wants a breast reduction, as having such things pulling me forward would REALLY irritate me. But to willfully damage such glorious beauty(I even showed her before/after pics to impress upon her the severity of the scarring)? Not a fan.

I know three people who have had breast reduction surgeries because their large breasts caused them to have a lot of back pain, and they all were glad they did it( as far as I know, anyway ). But that was more about the reduction of unbearable pain than for more youthful looks. But still, I think losing weight and exercising the muscles in that area would have helped, too, and would have been sooooo much cheaper.
Last edited by passionflower on November 9th, 2016, 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vertigo
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by vertigo »

As someone who has had plastic surgery I would like to offer my opinion. I was 22 when I got implants, I was extremely insecure about my non existent chest and had earned enough money to do it so I did. They were meant to fit my body size and no one even noticed, even my family. The only time you could tell was in a bathing suit. I felt great and for the first time, feminine. I had a very athletic build and took so much teasing from guys about being "flat" that I had told myself that someday I would buy myself some boobs. I thought I would finally stop comparing myself to all those perfect bodies on TV.

Now before you think I am defending this I will tell you how I feel now.

I hate my fake boobs. After 3 kids and 20 years I think about my body a lot differently and I wish I could get them removed. I am ashamed when I think about what my kids would think if they knew. I can ALWAYS tell when someone else has had them done as well and I hate that I look fake like that too, that I'm part of that club. I see women who are natural and I envy them, because they didn't feel the need to do that to their bodies.

That's what bothers me the most, I made a decision when I was immature and insecure and I wish I would have looked to the right source for my self worth. It saddens me that our society (Babylon) has made this practice so common and almost expected and that many mormon women have joined that club. And botox? I'm sorry but I think people look ridiculous when they use it. So to answer your question I would have to say yes, it can be evil. It promotes vanity, pride, lust and debt to name a few. I always hated being told I was "flat" but it was more insulting being told by strange men that I had nice boobs.

When I tell people how I feel they are shocked, it seems most people don't regret it like I do, but I feel the same way with nose jobs and lip jobs too ( as far as excess skin being removed or reconstructive surgery I do feel differently) However I do not think people who do these are evil, not at all. I know some amazing women who unfortunately felt the need to enhance themselves for whatever reason, but are from evil.

We really have to ask ourselves why, I think if we are truly honest with ourselves we will know if the desire is based on selfish reasons or not. And that should be the key to our answer.
Last edited by vertigo on November 9th, 2016, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

capctr
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by capctr »

vertigo wrote:As someone so has had plastic surgery I would like to offer my opinion. I was 22 when I got implants, I was extremely insecure about my non existent chest and had earned enough money to do it so I did. They were meant to fit my body size and no one even noticed, even my family. The only time you could tell was in a bathing suit. I felt great and for the first time, feminine. I had a very athletic build and took so much teasing from guys about being "flat" that I had told myself that someday I would buy myself some boobs. I thought I would finally stop comparing myself to all those perfect bodies on TV.

Now before you think I am defending this I will tell you how I feel now.

I hate my fake boobs. After 3 kids and 20 years I think about my body a lot differently and I wish I could get them removed. I am ashamed when I think about what my kids would think if they knew. I can ALWAYS tell when someone else has had them done as well and I hate that I look fake like that too, that I'm part of that club. I see women who are natural and I envy them, because they didn't feel the need to do that to their bodies.

That's what bothers me the most, I made a decision when I was immature and insecure and I wish I would have looked to the right source for my self worth. It saddens me that our society (Babylon) has made this practice so common and almost expected and that many mormon women have joined that club. And botox? I'm sorry but I think people look ridiculous when they use it. So to answer your question I would have to say yes, it can be evil. It promotes vanity, pride, lust and debt to name a few. I always hated being told I was "flat" but it was more insulting being told by strange men that I had nice boobs.

When I tell people how I feel they are shocked, it seems most people don't regret it like I do, but I feel the same way with nose jobs and lip jobs too ( as far as excess skin being removed or reconstructive surgery I do feel differently) However I do not think people who do these are evil, not at all. I know some amazing women who unfortunately felt the need to enhance themselves for whatever reason, but are from evil.

We really have to ask ourselves why, I think if we are truly honest with ourselves we will know if the desire is based on selfish reasons or not. And that should be the key to our answer.
Would a lift/reduction seem artificial to you? She was 5'2" when we married, but 20 years and 4 children have increased her breast size, and diminished her her height to 5'.

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vertigo
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by vertigo »

capctr wrote:
vertigo wrote:As someone so has had plastic surgery I would like to offer my opinion. I was 22 when I got implants, I was extremely insecure about my non existent chest and had earned enough money to do it so I did. They were meant to fit my body size and no one even noticed, even my family. The only time you could tell was in a bathing suit. I felt great and for the first time, feminine. I had a very athletic build and took so much teasing from guys about being "flat" that I had told myself that someday I would buy myself some boobs. I thought I would finally stop comparing myself to all those perfect bodies on TV.

Now before you think I am defending this I will tell you how I feel now.

I hate my fake boobs. After 3 kids and 20 years I think about my body a lot differently and I wish I could get them removed. I am ashamed when I think about what my kids would think if they knew. I can ALWAYS tell when someone else has had them done as well and I hate that I look fake like that too, that I'm part of that club. I see women who are natural and I envy them, because they didn't feel the need to do that to their bodies.

That's what bothers me the most, I made a decision when I was immature and insecure and I wish I would have looked to the right source for my self worth. It saddens me that our society (Babylon) has made this practice so common and almost expected and that many mormon women have joined that club. And botox? I'm sorry but I think people look ridiculous when they use it. So to answer your question I would have to say yes, it can be evil. It promotes vanity, pride, lust and debt to name a few. I always hated being told I was "flat" but it was more insulting being told by strange men that I had nice boobs.

When I tell people how I feel they are shocked, it seems most people don't regret it like I do, but I feel the same way with nose jobs and lip jobs too ( as far as excess skin being removed or reconstructive surgery I do feel differently) However I do not think people who do these are evil, not at all. I know some amazing women who unfortunately felt the need to enhance themselves for whatever reason, but are from evil.

We really have to ask ourselves why, I think if we are truly honest with ourselves we will know if the desire is based on selfish reasons or not. And that should be the key to our answer.
Would a lift/reduction seem artificial to you? She was 5'2" when we married, but 20 years and 4 children have increased her breast size, and diminished her her height to 5'.
Honestly, I think that it is a question for her. My breast size has grown as well and the thought of having a smaller chest would be heaven! (Who knew) I think one of the hardest things in life is feeling happy/comfortable with our bodies especially if you are a woman. We spend so much time and money trying to feel good, just look at the makeup industry! We dye our hair, paint or nails layer on the makeup, is that not artificial?

Surgery is different since it's harder to undo so if it was me I would want to make sure I felt good about it. It's easier to see a reduction as a different category than other cosmetic procedures (is it for health or comfort reasons) however the reasons behind it are personal (and costly) and I think it's a decision you both should feel good about. I think it's great that you are so supportive and seem to be just fine with her body the way it is. Maybe if she heard more from you about that she might not feel the need to botox or reduce anything, it will help remind her that she doesn't need to try to look good for everyone else. We need to ask ourselves WHO are we trying to impress?

Sunain
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Sunain »

I don't think cosmetic surgery is inherently evil, it has its benefits. Burn victims, cancer victims and birth deformities are all good uses of cosmetic surgery.

Where I think it's gone way wrong is like in South Korea where they are having surgery for the littlest 'defects'. When the surgery is for vain reasons, then I would agree that it's bad.

Utah really seems to have an issue with breast augmentation. Natural is better by the way for any girls reading, so don't bother, a lot of guys actually find it a turn off. :)
Forbes Magazine ranked Salt Lake City as "America's vainest city" in 2007. With nearly six plastic surgeons for every 100,000 people, that's 2.5 times the national average.

Now in 2016, The Utah State Plastic Surgery Society shows that our state is actually more densely populated with plastic surgeons than it was 10 years ago, and that number just keeps on growing.
http://fox13now.com/2016/02/24/vain-uta ... ive-state/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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skmo
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

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braingrunt wrote:I think it is not good.
Oh, it's a lot more than not good, it's a plain out sin of pride, whether the person recognizes it or not. Of course, this is assuming it's a case of vanity for a person wanting just "to look better" for a natural aging process. If your financial situation is such that you can throw money around to make sure that your 50 year old butt looks like a 21 year old's, or your natural age lines are kept away to look prettier than the broad down the lane, you've really got a lot more problems than looking like a normal human being.

Reconstructive surgery to repair traumatic damage or birth defects? I see those as benefits of science which can help people in need who have MEDICAL PROBLEMS. Wanting a butt-lift, tummy-tuck, or boob job so parts of you still look more "perky" than the other women around (face it, most women really care a LOT more about what other women do than what men do, even if it's their own man) is disgraceful.

I hear talk of using Botox injections for prevention of migraines, I think that's great, and I hope it works. Apart from repair of damaged or removed breast tissue I say breasts should NEVER EVER EVER EVER be enlarged, (besides, trust me, the fake ones really feel wrong) but I can see a benefit if a very large-breasted woman is developing back problems which diet and proper exercise aren't solving. I do know that's a real thing, and I can understand the need for it. However, elective cosmetic surgery because you want to defy age really frosts my shorts.
Last edited by skmo on November 9th, 2016, 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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skmo
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by skmo »

ajax wrote:Perhaps it's evil to suggest it's evil.
Feel free to tell me I'm evil. The commandments back me up. A desire to help others justify pride is also evil. Lesser evil, maybe, but still evil.

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skmo
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by skmo »

Melissa wrote:If a man's genitals were innapropriately sized for him to properly function would it be okay for him to try and do those enlargement things that are available? Of course it would...
Of course it WOULDN'T. Is he able to implant semen sufficiently to impregnate? Then he's got enough.
Wouldn't ever be a question of vanity.
Wouldn't be a QUESTION of vanity, it'd be undeniable PROOF of vanity.
Womens bodies are the focus of sexuality.
The sin of lust does not justify the sin of pride.
I sure wish we didn't shame women for the natural processes of aging.
In complete agreement here. My chubby, sagging wife is stunningly beautiful to my eyes, and I tell her that often. (Not the chubby sagging part, I mean I find ways to tell her how beautiful she is.) I would certainly agree that our society has perverted itself, though.

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skmo
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by skmo »

Fiannan wrote:Braces. That is cosmetic and often involves surgery or extracting.
Do you bean braces on teeth? While part of it is cosmetic, it's also important to help maintain proper dental health. Ill-fitting teeth can be a problem down the line.

Fiannan
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by Fiannan »

Salt Lake is #1 for breast implants. I heard a guy speaking of the economics of dating in the modern culture and he said the shortage of active LDS males to active LDS females was promoting both more liberal notions of sexuality in regards to dating guys in the women and a desire to augment their bodies for maximum attention from the few guys available.

capctr
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

Post by capctr »

My mother dealt with being too top heavy her whole life, and at 80+, has lost much height as well as gained a widows hump(hunched back) from the imbalance. For that reason alone, I'd HAVE to support my wife, if she chooses a reduction; however, she is the rare beauty who won the genetic lottery in that she has zero stretch marks anywhere, so the resulting surgical scars would...suck.

Sunain
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Re: Is cosmetic surgery evil?

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Fiannan wrote:Salt Lake is #1 for breast implants. I heard a guy speaking of the economics of dating in the modern culture and he said the shortage of active LDS males to active LDS females was promoting both more liberal notions of sexuality in regards to dating guys in the women and a desire to augment their bodies for maximum attention from the few guys available.
Well as a single guy, I find it a turn off that any active LDS woman would alter themselves so significantly. It leads me to think, what else would they compromise or alter in their lives? Their spirituality? Their integrity? Their soul? What frightens me even more is if there are active male members that are attracted to this fakeness and only go after women that have done that to themselves. Are members of the church so contempt with attaining a facade of vainess that they'll do anything now? The pride of the world definitely has a hold of Utah now. President Ballard got it right, although he said it in the wrong way in his talk and it was taken the wrong way by those listening, but there is nothing wrong with women AND men wearing a bit of makeup to make us look more attractive.

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