Do Bishops side with the men?

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Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

carbon dioxide wrote:
Bee Prepared wrote:Husband and I have been counseling with the bishop over some recent problems. I've thought we had the kindest Bishop in the church. Boy was I wrong. No matter what I say, he sides with my husband. He actually told me I was condemning my husband by speaking against him. Whoa, the truth
is not speaking against him. Most of you who know me, know that I never speak out against the brethren. This has been an awful experience! Testimony shaking if you will.

The Savior showed an unusual respect for women, He is my hero, not condescending men who place women as second.
My only comment is don't let the actions of one man whether a bishop or not shake your testimony. Every bishop is different. If you are having problems with your bishop, got to your stake president if needed. Bishops have problems to. Perhaps they were called not because they were the most qualified in your ward but they have issues they need to overcome and this is one way they can overcome their problems.
Thanks carbon! Things are going much better now. My Bishop is a humble good man. He came to my home, talked to me at length. He smiled and asked if I was upset with him, I said a little and we both laughed. I have always been on the serving side, rarely on the receiving side. This was a new experience for me. After I pondered his words, I could see the wisdom in them. There needed to be time, time for resolution, time for forgiveness, and he knew that. I am amazed at what one can learn from challenges. I was not compassionate to the sinner, all I could think about was my feelings. Finally I realized that I was not the only one suffering. I still have problems controlling my thoughts, so I start humming a hymn, it helps. My favorite is, " I need Thee Every Hour." :D

The ward heretic
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Posts: 289

Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by The ward heretic »

Bee,
I hope things are going better for you and your husband from the time the OP was started.

The ward heretic
captain of 100
Posts: 289

Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by The ward heretic »

Once a very frustrated Bishop called me up to get support concerning a "problem" couple. They were one of "those" kinds of families whose yard was full of weeds and garbage, their 6 kids were often ill clothed or even naked, the husband was chronically unemployed, the wife was crude, irresponsible, immature and ill mannered, and they were in the Bishops office vehemently complaining about each other almost every week. This bishop had sent them to counseling, but it wasn't accomplishing much.

He was at his wits end and asked me for help. I say OK. I get their phone number, and call them ( I know who they are, and they know me in a distant sort of way )

The wife answers the phone, and they are in the middle of a huge fight. He wanted to just leave, but she had ripped the spark plugs out of the car. Obviously, she was very VERY frustrated. I got her calmed down and talking to me, and then I got her to get her husband on another phone so they could both talk to me. In the next few minutes, I accomplished what the bishop and counselor had failed to do, by uncovering the deep perplexing problem really at the bottom of all this frustration. He and I spoke for 10 more minutes about what he needed to do to solve his problems, and then convinced him to call his bishop, who would see him immediately. I told the wife a few things, listened to her some more, with her finally saying in amazement to her husband " why are we going to a marraige counselor when we have her?" ( we weren't on the phone for much more than a half hour)

The bishop did see him immediately, and three hours later I received a call of relief and gratitude from him. Then this husband called me ( it was now late at night ) and crying very hard he thanked me for helping him with his wife chiming in with real REAL egret over the selfish spoiled brat she had been.
Wait, how is this any different from lizzy60's post when you accused her of gossip?

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ason123
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by ason123 »

I am so sorry you had to go through that! A few years ago, my ex-husband and I were on the verge of divorce due to him emotionally abusing me. There came a point where I could not take it anymore and I arranged a meeting with the bishop to see if he could mediate or offer some kind of counsel to us as a couple. As we each told our side of the story in his office, I felt that the bishop and my husband had the "bro's look out for each other" mentality (he was kind of a young bishop), as my husband attempted to brand me as a crazy person. Bishop tried to convince me that it was not my husband's intent to upset me, and I might be reading into things too much. I was almost ready to never step foot in that office again. HOWEVER! I took a deep breath, and realized that my bishop is just like anyone else - he is not infallible. Most likely he had sympathy for my husband because he had been through something similar and he could relate to how men feel more than how women feel in a given situation. I continued to seek guidance from him separately from my then-husband. My bishop made time out of his busy schedule to try to help me (he always had to travel for work and I am sorry to say I probably stole him away from his family too many times during this hardship - I really am grateful that he did that for me). His heart was in the right place. As events in my marriage unfolded naturally, it was my dear bishop who convinced me that it is indeed not a sin to divorce someone that was emotionally abusive to me and that I deserved to be happy. He also guided me with professional counseling resources (and yes, the option for the church to pay for it was there but I didn't let them pay - that was just way too generous). I am so thankful to him. He started out not knowing the full truth about my situation, siding with what he could relate to initially. He ended as one of my greatest allies and support pillars as my divorce became a reality. Thanks in large part to him, I was able to move on and am now married to someone who is just as kind and wonderful as can be. Don't give up on your bishop. Give it another try, but maybe talk to your bishop separately from your husband (who may make unhelpful remarks as you are trying to stay collected and give your side of the story). At the very least, he may be able to direct you to someone who will be way more helpful than him. :D

Faith
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Posts: 37

Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Faith »

I am a faithful member. I have unfortunately gained a strong witness that Bishops do not have many answers, can sometimes take the man's side, and are not always guided by God in the advise they give. Can they be guided at times in our behalf? sure. But it is for us to seek and know if they are guiding us correctly and by the spirit - or not.

But we can forgive and realize they are much like ourselves . . . just trying to understand people and trying to do things to the best they know how. This had brought me the most peace.

My bishop's counsel at first was to watch the movie "the incredibles", and to see how the couple in that movie ends up getting along. As time went by I decided I needed a small amount of time apart from my husband and was told in a blessing that it would be okay for me to do and that God would support me. My bishop told me that if I truly wanted time to "find myself" like I had mentioned, that all 5 of our children would be in the care of my husband during our separation the entire time so I could truly be alone to find myself. Even my husband's eyes widened because he works two jobs he couldn't even imagine how such a crazy scenario would work. I was also quizzed about the worthiness of my brother who gave me the priesthood blessing, and that was brushed aside. They really don't have all the answers for marriage problems and should refer you to a counselor.

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BYULAWGUY
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by BYULAWGUY »

Bee Prepared wrote:Husband and I have been counseling with the bishop over some recent problems. I've thought we had the kindest Bishop in the church. Boy was I wrong. No matter what I say, he sides with my husband. He actually told me I was condemning my husband by speaking against him. Whoa, the truth
is not speaking against him. Most of you who know me, know that I never speak out against the brethren. This has been an awful experience! Testimony shaking if you will.

The Savior showed an unusual respect for women, He is my hero, not condescending men who place women as second.
As a divorce lawyer and former bishop, bishops are not trained at all on how to handle couples with marriage issues. That is not their role and do their best. Bishops need to refer out counseling to therapists and work on just the spiritual issues of the members.

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skmo
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by skmo »

Abinadi wrote:Most bishops are not qualified to give "advice".
I would only qualify that to say bishops are qualified to give advice on that which falls under their purview. They can help you with your callings, they can help lead you in church service, and if you are in need of advice on how to obtain forgiveness for severe sins they can do that. Beyond that, a truly good bishop will not try to give marital counselling (unless that's his vocation, and even then I doubt they'd go very far in since it would be a conflict of interest) or emotional counselling for mental problems. They should only be helping you find a qualified, licensed counsellor. I would avoid LDS Social Services, every LDS counsellor, therapist, and social worker I've ever known has said the same thing. I had one girl I was dating, working on getting her MSW say if the only option available was LDS Social Services, go out for Chinese food and see what the fortune cookie said.

Son of Liberty
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Posts: 177

Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Son of Liberty »

This post is not of the spirit

MIK
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by MIK »

I know this is off topic. But has anyone ever heard where the Church would endorse a structured seperation in a marriage?
I would understand is abuse was involved. My understanding is that the church teaches to stick together and work it out, if possible. Seperation (even structured) gives way to even futher problems.
Any thoughts? Or maybe a talk that addresses this issue.

Thanks!

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Robin Hood
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Location: England

Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Robin Hood »

Faith wrote:I am a faithful member. I have unfortunately gained a strong witness that Bishops do not have many answers, can sometimes take the man's side, and are not always guided by God in the advise they give. Can they be guided at times in our behalf? sure. But it is for us to seek and know if they are guiding us correctly and by the spirit - or not.

But we can forgive and realize they are much like ourselves . . . just trying to understand people and trying to do things to the best they know how. This had brought me the most peace.

My bishop's counsel at first was to watch the movie "the incredibles", and to see how the couple in that movie ends up getting along. As time went by I decided I needed a small amount of time apart from my husband and was told in a blessing that it would be okay for me to do and that God would support me. My bishop told me that if I truly wanted time to "find myself" like I had mentioned, that all 5 of our children would be in the care of my husband during our separation the entire time so I could truly be alone to find myself. Even my husband's eyes widened because he works two jobs he couldn't even imagine how such a crazy scenario would work. I was also quizzed about the worthiness of my brother who gave me the priesthood blessing, and that was brushed aside. They really don't have all the answers for marriage problems and should refer you to a counselor.
Why on earth burden a bishop with your marriage problems?
He is not some kind of superman. He's just an ordinary member of the congregation who said "yes" when the Lord came calling.
He is actually president of the Aaronic priesthood and does not, therefore, hold the spiritual keys you would need.
Poor bloke. You should have known better.

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