When did shaving begin?

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Fiannan
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When did shaving begin?

Post by Fiannan »

I find this interesting as I firmly believe most people like to conform, and that mass media has used this to shape us into who we are today. That said, there are always those who refuse to follow the norms, and today it seems body hair is becoming a barometer for that.

I know several women who have decided to stop shaving their bodies for good. They are not feminists, quite the contrary, but they hate following the norms. And the norm today is total and complete body hair removal for women, and now men are getting into it. So where did this all begin?

Well, here you go - an advertising campaign organized by Harpers Bazaar magazine aimed at getting women to remove their underarm hair in 1915:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... -underarms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Later the idea that women should shave their legs came in, around WW1 when dresses went shorter.

Of course we can assume women in the next life will be hairy because the Book of Mormon says, "Not a hair of their head shall be lost."

I am not advocating giving up on shaving, it does not bother me one way or another. I just think it is interesting how something becomes so ingrained in our culture that we just assume it has been that way forever.

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Buttacup
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by Buttacup »

Why are you posting on the sisters section?

Fiannan
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by Fiannan »

Buttacup wrote:Why are you posting on the sisters section?
Interested in what women have to say about this issue. ;)

GeeR
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by GeeR »

Shaving is an ancient tradition. Alexander the Great ordered his troops to be clean shaven because the enemy would grab hold of his men's beards and slice and dice. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Egyptian women shave themselves or had women slaves shave the nobility. There were barbers in ancient Rome and part of their repertoire was shaving.

JohnnyL
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by JohnnyL »

Fiannan wrote:Of course we can assume women in the next life will be hairy because the Book of Mormon says, "Not a hair of their head shall be lost."
"of their HEAD", ha ha. Besides, it doesn't mean they can't shave it then, either. ;)

Lots of countries don't generally shave. Underarm hair is actually attractive on some women...

The ward heretic
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by The ward heretic »

JohnnyL wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Of course we can assume women in the next life will be hairy because the Book of Mormon says, "Not a hair of their head shall be lost."
"of their HEAD", ha ha. Besides, it doesn't mean they can't shave it then, either. ;)

Lots of countries don't generally shave. Underarm hair is actually attractive on some women...
Never!!! We have razors as part of our preparation items. I will grow a "Joseph F Smith" if that means my wife can shave that much longer in a post razor world!

Julezee
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by Julezee »

Hahaha, this practice is "of the world"! My husband is of the JohnnyL opinion. Yet as we have aged, he has yet to notice I discontinued underarm shaving years ago. He will make remarks about my legs on occasion but when I have no reward for shaving them my practice wanes. This practice may actually be on the decline as a rebellion of sorts is showing up in some recent movies out of Hollywood. The bold assertion that "hey for your information, women were born with hair on their legs" was declared by a feisty Sandra Bullock in a movie. I'm all about keeping peace and obliging my husband to a point. He did shave his short beard for me as a kiss was downright painful and unwelcome. I believe the time will come that leg hair will be of no consequence when just trying to survive.

When men began shaving their legs in recent years I thought, "Knock yourselves out" but then I like a nice pair of man legs in their original decorum.

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A Random Phrase
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by A Random Phrase »

The ward heretic wrote:
JohnnyL wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Of course we can assume women in the next life will be hairy because the Book of Mormon says, "Not a hair of their head shall be lost."
"of their HEAD", ha ha. Besides, it doesn't mean they can't shave it then, either. ;)

Lots of countries don't generally shave. Underarm hair is actually attractive on some women...
Never!!! We have razors as part of our preparation items. I will grow a "Joseph F Smith" if that means my wife can shave that much longer in a post razor world!
In all seriousness, you will probably just be grateful she and you are still alive.

Juliet
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by Juliet »

I believe hair is very important and God given. The moon effects the waves of the earth, and the hair balances the electric field of the human organism. The facial hair in a man helps balance his hormones. Women need to have long hair and of course their hormones are balanced with no facial hair. I shave my arms and legs occasionally but it is a shame men cannot have beards to work in the temple. It is downright demoralizing. Men were meant to have beards.

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shadow
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by shadow »

Juliet wrote:Men were meant to have beards.
And long finger nails.
And long toe nails.
And plaque on their teeth.
And wax in their ears. I like that- "Sorry dear, it's not that I'm not paying attention, I honestly can't hear you." YMWHISTLE

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Rachael
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by Rachael »

GeeR wrote:Shaving is an ancient tradition. Alexander the Great ordered his troops to be clean shaven because the enemy would grab hold of his men's beards and slice and dice. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Egyptian women shave themselves or had women slaves shave the nobility. There were barbers in ancient Rome and part of their repertoire was shaving.
I figured it started with Greek stuff, which Romans copy-catted, and we copy catted them.
So since a hair of my head won't be lost after the resurrection, I wonder if that goes for legs and armpits, and ...well, not saying it...? If it does, I might as well quit wasting time and money on dipilatory creams (Nair®).

davedan
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by davedan »

We will be bald from the radiation sickness. "Baldness instead of beauty"


"And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty." Isaiah 3:24

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Rachael
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by Rachael »

I go through a mini version of that when I use Nair®. It stinks, causes baldness where applied, and burns if left on too long. I would hate it if I couldn't control the location and length of time of the application. It would be nightmarish.

I guess I should order some of those anti radiation pills from Alex Jones

tribrac
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by tribrac »

I have a vague recollection of reading or hearing of a tradition that went something along these lines:

Before the flood (or the tower) Jehovah God (JG) was not the only supernatrual being interacting with humans. The others were not necessarily working with the same interests as JG, and sometimes opposed Him. This is where the ancient cultures got there myths and legends of many gods.

One of theses mischievous supernaturals was a female who taught the women to paint their faces, or in other words introduced the custom of makeup. I'm not suggesting this is true doctrine, but it makes me wonder when make-up was introduced and by who. To me it seems at odds with the order of heaven where it is not permissible to deceive another. The purpose of make-up is to hide or conceal the true identify of the person. Did someone tell ladies long ago that their faces were bare, and they should therefore be ashamed?

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passionflower
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by passionflower »

tribrac wrote:I have a vague recollection of reading or hearing of a tradition that went something along these lines:

Before the flood (or the tower) Jehovah God (JG) was not the only supernatrual being interacting with humans. The others were not necessarily working with the same interests as JG, and sometimes opposed Him. This is where the ancient cultures got there myths and legends of many gods.

One of theses mischievous supernaturals was a female who taught the women to paint their faces, or in other words introduced the custom of makeup. I'm not suggesting this is true doctrine, but it makes me wonder when make-up was introduced and by who. To me it seems at odds with the order of heaven where it is not permissible to deceive another. The purpose of make-up is to hide or conceal the true identify of the person. Did someone tell ladies long ago that their faces were bare, and they should therefore be ashamed?
You might find this interesting:
Make-up in more modern times is more about exaggerating some features and concealing others in order to more closely resemble some fashionable "ideal" of beauty. At first It was mostly used by prostitutes to enhance their sex appeal.

Then motion pictures came along and make up was essential in order to look "good" under the lights and to once again exaggerate either feminine or masculine beauty and sex appeal. Although it took another few decades for Hollywood to bring about the "star" system for promoting their films, women, of whom the main theatre going audience was composed of, were enthralled with their favorite romantic heroines and wanted to look like them. ( that is still true today ) And that meant wearing make-up, and not just a little bit, either.

Then Elizabeth Arden comes along with just the right idea at just the right time, and begins her make up line, which is still around today. Through a lot of advertising and the help of popular movie actresses, she managed to remove the stigma of make-up as the prop of prostitutes and made it mainstream. (although a lot of actresses of the silent era were hardly any better than prostitutes themselves, and that's still true today, isn't it?)

Of course there are a very few women out there who have real facial defects or have certain diseases that wearing make up to enhance their appearance is a real blessing, but hardly any of us women really fit into such a category. You wouldn't know that, though, the way make up is advertised. We all must be hypnotized by the belief that we "need" make up or we are ugly or sick looking.

And don't believe for one minute that Christie Brinkley doesn't wear literally pounds of make up to create that so called "natural look" she is famous for.
If it is so natural, why do we need cover girl cosmetics to get it?

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passionflower
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by passionflower »

shadow wrote:
Juliet wrote:Men were meant to have beards.
And long finger nails.
And long toe nails.
And plaque on their teeth.
And wax in their ears. I like that- "Sorry dear, it's not that I'm not paying attention, I honestly can't hear you." YMWHISTLE

Hasn't anyone noticed that whenever there is a record of the appearance of an angel, he is never described as having a beard?

Here is probably a quote from the most famous angelic appearance in this present dispensation:

"His head and neck were also bare. I could discover he had no other clothing on but this robe, as it was open, so that I could see into his bosom."

I really really think that if Moroni had a beard, and one that he just let grow and grow, it would have obscured the "view" here of his neck and bosom, right? And with all this detail given by JS, you'd think he would have mentioned a beard if there was one.

This is a hairy subject. Last time I gave opinion concerning the virtue of beards, I was threatened online within an inch of my life, so with this said up there, I think I'll quit #:-s

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shadow
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by shadow »

passionflower wrote:
This is a hairy subject. Last time I gave opinion concerning the virtue of beards, I was threatened online within an inch of my life, so with this said up there, I think I'll quit #:-s
All I care to know about beards is that my wife won't let me kiss her if I have one so I shave every day.

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passionflower
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by passionflower »

shadow wrote:
passionflower wrote:
This is a hairy subject. Last time I gave opinion concerning the virtue of beards, I was threatened online within an inch of my life, so with this said up there, I think I'll quit #:-s
All I care to know about beards is that my wife won't let me kiss her if I have one so I shave every day.

Ah, a woman whose taste in men could be described as angelic!

tribrac
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by tribrac »

So angels = no beards
Godhead = beards

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passionflower
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by passionflower »

tribrac wrote:So angels = no beards
Godhead = beards
I can't come up with anything in the D&C for example, that claims God the Father or Jesus Christ(in his resurrected state )has a beard. Can you? I'm just saying this off the top of my head, but they are described as having white hair and countenances like lightening, but I don't know about beards.

Fiannan
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by Fiannan »

I was just discussing make-up and female body hair with a female professor the other day. The true meaning of lipstick is rooted in some pretty sexual aspects, which I will not get into except to note that the British government made laws in the 1700s that said a woman using too much of it to allure a man into marriage could be tried for witchcraft.
For women, as noted in the original post, pretty much all women, except for prostitutes, prior to the early 1900s had natural hair (legs, underarms, etc.). It was advertising campaigns that made underarm hair unfashionable at first, then leg hair. In the early 1990s lingerie went from a fringe item to totally mainstream with companies like Victoria's Secret. The advent of the "supermodel" and woman aspiring to it assisted in the next phase of hair removal. Of course when porn became more mainstream via internet and large hotel chains offering it as entertainment women decided to go fully hairless from neck to toes. Males too have gotten into this as most male celebrities shave their chests and underarms for any scenes where a shirt is removed. I read the other day that most younger males either shave their legs or at least trim hair length. So what we see in movies and pictures in magazines really does influence what we see as the norm. People will follow society and those who don't learn quickly what happens. I know a woman who decided during the autumn a few years back that she would stop shaving at all. When summer came she wore a bikini on an outing at the beach with her parents. Her mom was the one that scolded her and said that she would never find a man looking as she did. However, she did find a guy she is now engaged to who finds her look attractive. I will note that I have heard many guys complain that they wished their girlfriends or wives would completely stop shaving because they prefer a more natural look.

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passionflower
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by passionflower »

I could be behind the times, but I think shaving for women is still not done in continental europe. If it is the fashion now, it's a pretty new thing.

But having been in both worlds, and knowing that continental europeans are not as much into personal cleanliness as americans are to this day. I am on the side of shaving for purely hygienic reasons. Shaving probably began in ancient civilzations because of lice infestations, etc and only became a cultural or fashion statement after the fact.

Daily bathing, like shaving, is also a modern invention, ( although Booker T Washington advocated it back in the Victorian age along with tooth brushing) and it to came about through advertising. Soap companies in the first half of the 20th century invented the term "BO" and claimed that only daily bathing would rid you of it. Soap companies were a fairly new thing, as most soap was homemade in the 1800's ( I am at least a fifth generation soap maker and I make everything we use ) and their ads featured dainty looking ladies surrounded by soap bubbles with the suggestion of how lovely they looked, felt, and smelled and how nice they were to touch in order to sell their products to the everyday housewife.

It worked, didn't it?

Truthfully, I am completely on the side of cleanliness being next to Godliness. The cleaner the body is, both inside and out, the less chance for disease to spread.
To me, shaving is a part of that and not some fashion statement, and I put it in the same category as tooth brushing and bathing.

I have very long hair, and if I had my way I would wear it up everyday, but my husband much prefers it down, so I don't, but it would be a better idea if I did.

tribrac
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by tribrac »

Sorry if I take this thread on a tangent, but I wonder how we will respond when the Lord comes and sets our practices and traditions in order. Will we still hold to our traditions such as shaving or make-up, or any other hundreds of things that we do without even thinking. Will He care to change any of them? I kind of think he will, sort of separating the sheep and goats, the wheat and tares or wild and tame olives, but with true vs false teachings. Perhaps a better question is: Will we want Him to? And thinking about that, I reflect on actions or beliefs I hold onto today that I know I ought to give away, why don't I?

Joseph Smith said he tried to establish the Kingdom but when his teachings came up against the people's traditions the people flew apart. Would I fly apart if my traditions and customs were challenged?

And now, realizing this is the woman's forum, I think I better walk away.

Ann
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by Ann »

This thread started out frightening! Not losing hair on the head/getting a full head of hair, fantastic. Legs and underarms? And getting it back? Absolutely terrifying.

Fiannan
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Re: When did shaving begin?

Post by Fiannan »

Ann wrote:This thread started out frightening! Not losing hair on the head/getting a full head of hair, fantastic. Legs and underarms? And getting it back? Absolutely terrifying.
What women will look like in the next life? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bJQRSjS6ymA/U ... pits+2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One thing though, this is what all women looked like in the days of Emma Smith.

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