Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

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2BFree
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by 2BFree »

Here is a post by Denver that I would like FFA, A12.0 and anyone else to comment on...since the anti=Snuffer group claims he makes up stuff and throw out diatribes about how he is preaching false doctrine and is an apostate only because he wouldn't obey his "leaders" to stop publishing a book that he contractually had no control over. Well, here's your chance to refute a specific post from his blog...I would sincerely appreciate your thinking and feelings about what he says in this post. BTW...what they should have done if they were so against his book is buy up all the copies as they did with Avraham Gileadi's Last Days book (the one published by DB).
A Question About "Seeds of Doubt"
This comment was a question I received this week: "You are hinting that we have 'strayed from mine ordinances' and broken the covenant as a people. Does this encourage faith in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? I would argue that it does not. You appear conflicted. You appear to be trying to plant seeds of doubt because of changes to the temple ceremonies over the years."


This is a question only an idolator could ask. The question presumes the object of faith should be an institution. That is idolatry.


To the extent that the church teaches faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, it is of value. To the extent it teaches faith in itself, it will damn you.


Those who inherit the Telestial Kingdom, or the lowest condition in the afterlife apart from outer darkness, will keep company with liars, thieves and adulterers. (D&C 76: 103.) These damned folks, who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, (D&C 76: 106) are the ones who worship the church, but not Christ. They prefer the institutional leaders (D&C 76: 99-100) rather than receiving the testimony of Christ (D&C 76: 101).


These people are those who "love and make a lie" because the truth is not in them. (D&C 76: 103.) They lie about the terms of salvation. They substitute the commandments of men for faith in Christ. This is the heart of lying - to deceive on matters affecting the souls of mankind.


Let me be as clear as I possibly can: I am not trying to "encourage faith in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." That would damn anyone who would listen to me. I have tried to encourage activity in the church; to encourage payment of tithes, support of leadership, serving in callings, and living its standards. But NOT faith in the church.


I am trying to encourage faith in Jesus Christ. The Articles of Faith clarify who we are to have faith in: "We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ." (Article of Faith 4.)


It is incidental to that faith that we believe in a church organization. (Article of Faith 6.) Nowhere in the Articles of Faith, nor in the scriptures does it require anyone to have "faith in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" for salvation.


The person (or committee) who posed the question should repent. They suffer from a damning form of idolatry, denounced in scripture, which will condemn them to hell unless they repent-- if the revelations from Jesus Christ can be trusted. If they teach this as doctrine to others, they are leading them astray.


As to the other part of the question - that the temple ordinances have been changed, let me be clear on that also. Yes, they have been changed. Your question admits it. We all know that is true. They have been substantially reworked, deleted, portions eliminated, whole characters removed from the presentation, and even the parts that are identified as "most sacred" have been altered. They certainly have been changed. I leave it for each person to decide the extent to which these alterations are or are not important to them.


I will add, however, that when a Dispensation of the Gospel is conferred on mankind through a Dispensation head (like Enoch, Moses, Joseph Smith) then those who live in that Dispensation are obligated to honor the ordinances laid down through the Dispensation head by the Lord. For so long as the ordinances remain unchanged, the ordinances are effective. When, however, the ordinances are changed without the Lord's approval [THE critical question], they are broken. At that point, the cure is for the Lord to bestow a new Dispensation in which a new covenant is made available.


IF (and I leave it to you to answer that question) you decide the ordinances are now broken by the many changes, then you should look for the Lord to deliver them again. IF (and I leave it entirely to you to decide) the many changes were authorized by the Lord and approved by Him, then you have no concerns. The covenant was not broken. Everything continues intact. It would be curious to know why He changed them. Particularly when Joseph (the Dispensation head) said that couldn't be done. But if your confidence is in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the instrument of salvation, then you should not trouble yourself with this question. If your faith is in Christ, then take the matter up with Him and let Him explain to you what your state and standing is before Him. I know what mine is. I have no fear of His judgements.


I don't know if I could be any more clear. Maybe I should add that if I were a church leader, I would never have agreed to any change ever to any of the ordinances. But I was not a church leader, and when the great changes were made in 1990 no one asked me to even sustain them. Those in charge imposed them. As a member, I wasn't even afforded the chance to give a sustaining vote on the question. I have never been required to take a position, either by the church or the leaders or common consent. The church just DID it. To the extent that anyone is accountable for this, it cannot be me. That leaves everyone the freedom to decide individually what these things mean to them.


I would also add that if I'd been asked to vote I would have voted against it. Today, if the church provided periodic sessions using the earlier form, I would make it a practice to always attend only those sessions. I wish I could provide those for my own ancestors as I attend sessions now. I attended so frequently before the changes that, even today, when attending I still recite in my own mind missing portions of the ceremonies. I cannot avoid it. They are embedded and remain, despite not being present in the temple ceremony any longer.


Have faith in Christ. He doesn't change. (1 Ne. 10: 18; 2 Ne. 27: 23; Moroni 10: 7, among many others.) I concede that it's weird an unchanging God has a predeliction in this Dispensation of changing His ordinances. He, at least, doesn't change. If you lose your idolatry and anchor faith in Him, you will be fine.


So, where does that leave us with the issue of "seeds of doubt?" I doubt:
-men
-institutions
-lies
-foolishness
-vanity
-error
-pomposity
-arrogance
-ignorance
-good intentions
-the value of sincerity
-the commandments of men
-the present generation
-the popular solutions to most problems
-Hollywood
-opposing attorneys
-Chief Justice Roberts' reasoning
-quantative easing as a long term solution
-quantative easing as a short term solution
-the assumptions contained in the question I have answered in this post.


But I do NOT doubt Christ.

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rewcox
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by rewcox »

Denver's post you used was in 2012, not excommunicated yet. Moroni asks us to come unto Christ which as members we agree.

President Monson said this in October 2014:
My beloved brothers and sisters, I am humbled as I stand before you this morning. I ask for your faith and prayers in my behalf as I share with you my message.

All of us commenced a wonderful and essential journey when we left the spirit world and entered this often-challenging stage called mortality. The primary purposes of our existence upon the earth are to obtain a body of flesh and bones, to gain experience that could come only through separation from our heavenly parents, and to see if we would keep the commandments. In the book of Abraham chapter 3 we read: “And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them.”1

When we came to the earth, we brought with us that great gift from God—even our agency. In thousands of ways we are privileged to choose for ourselves. Here we learn from the hard taskmaster of experience. We discern between good and evil. We differentiate as to the bitter and the sweet. We learn that decisions determine destiny.

I am certain we left our Father with an overwhelming desire to return to Him, that we might gain the exaltation He planned for us and which we ourselves so much wanted. Although we are left to find and follow that path which will lead us back to our Father in Heaven, He did not send us here without direction and guidance. Rather, He has given us the tools we need, and He will assist us as we seek His help and strive to do all in our power to endure to the end and gain eternal life.

To help guide us we have the words of God and of His Son found in our holy scriptures. We have the counsel and teachings of God’s prophets. Of paramount importance, we have been provided with a perfect example to follow—even the example of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ—and we have been instructed to follow that example. Said the Savior Himself: “Come, follow me.”2 “The works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do.”3 He posed the question, “What manner of men ought ye to be?” And then He answered, “Verily I say unto you, even as I am.”4 “He marked the path and led the way.”5

As we look to Jesus as our Exemplar and as we follow in His footsteps, we can return safely to our Heavenly Father to live with Him forever. Said the prophet Nephi, “Unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.”

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2BFree
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by 2BFree »

rewcox wrote:Denver's post you used was in 2012, not excommunicated yet. Moroni asks us to come unto Christ which as members we agree.

President Monson said this in October 2014:
My beloved brothers and sisters, I am humbled as I stand before you this morning. I ask for your faith and prayers in my behalf as I share with you my message.

All of us commenced a wonderful and essential journey when we left the spirit world and entered this often-challenging stage called mortality. The primary purposes of our existence upon the earth are to obtain a body of flesh and bones, to gain experience that could come only through separation from our heavenly parents, and to see if we would keep the commandments. In the book of Abraham chapter 3 we read: “And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them.”1

When we came to the earth, we brought with us that great gift from God—even our agency. In thousands of ways we are privileged to choose for ourselves. Here we learn from the hard taskmaster of experience. We discern between good and evil. We differentiate as to the bitter and the sweet. We learn that decisions determine destiny.

I am certain we left our Father with an overwhelming desire to return to Him, that we might gain the exaltation He planned for us and which we ourselves so much wanted. Although we are left to find and follow that path which will lead us back to our Father in Heaven, He did not send us here without direction and guidance. Rather, He has given us the tools we need, and He will assist us as we seek His help and strive to do all in our power to endure to the end and gain eternal life.

To help guide us we have the words of God and of His Son found in our holy scriptures. We have the counsel and teachings of God’s prophets. Of paramount importance, we have been provided with a perfect example to follow—even the example of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ—and we have been instructed to follow that example. Said the Savior Himself: “Come, follow me.”2 “The works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do.”3 He posed the question, “What manner of men ought ye to be?” And then He answered, “Verily I say unto you, even as I am.”4 “He marked the path and led the way.”5

As we look to Jesus as our Exemplar and as we follow in His footsteps, we can return safely to our Heavenly Father to live with Him forever. Said the prophet Nephi, “Unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.”
Oh...so everything he wrote or said BEFORE he was ex'd is ok...well that's reassuring because all his books were written and published while he was in "good standing". I would still like to know if you or the others have any issue with what he said in the above post. If you don't want to take the time to read and comment on this post it is pretty clear to me you (plural) haven't really considered DS's positions and doctrinal points which is fine then I can weigh your comments accordingly.

freedomforall
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by freedomforall »

[quote="2BFree"]Here is a post by Denver that I would like FFA, A12.0 and anyone else to comment on...since the anti=Snuffer group claims he makes up stuff and throw out diatribes about how he is preaching false doctrine and is an apostate only because he wouldn't obey his "leaders" to stop publishing a book that he contractually had no control over. Well, here's your chance to refute a specific post from his blog...I would sincerely appreciate your thinking and feelings about what he says in this post. BTW...what they should have done if they were so against his book is buy up all the copies as they did with Avraham Gileadi's Last Days book (the one published by DB).[quote]

You can answer these yourself. Then we can discuss the results. I, for one, will not fall into this trap. With only DS's words and the requested answers from some of us that are against or in disagreement with...only gives you, imo, more tools to use in your behalf. And please don't let your suppositions, opinions or guessing cloud your perception as you have slyly added:

If you don't want to take the time to read and comment on this post it is pretty clear to me you (plural) haven't really considered DS's positions and doctrinal points which is fine then I can weigh your comments accordingly.

I can provide my words after you have committed to provide yours, and not before. I do not want to provide opinions or conjecture, rather, I would rather weigh your answers with the use of scripture where possible.

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rewcox
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by rewcox »

2BFree wrote:Oh...so everything he wrote or said BEFORE he was ex'd is ok...well that's reassuring because all his books were written and published while he was in "good standing". I would still like to know if you or the others have any issue with what he said in the above post. If you don't want to take the time to read and comment on this post it is pretty clear to me you (plural) haven't really considered DS's positions and doctrinal points which is fine then I can weigh your comments accordingly.
Idolatry isn't good. Faith in Christ is good. My point is that President Monson addressed that in October.

I don't discount the church like DS and you do. DS wouldn't know what he does without the church and missionaries that go out.

The post you choose to use is DS bringing out seeds of doubt in a subtle lawyeristic way.

He did the same with PTHG. He even said the book didn't claim to be true. That is very interesting lawyer speak.

And where did DS end up? BroJones has posted some of DS bizarre talk, the tenth part.

Where are you, in or out of the church? Community?

Thomas
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by Thomas »

Snuffer has said he ended up in the embrace of Christ. Sounds like a good place to me.

There really is a Christ you know not just church leaders.

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rewcox
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by rewcox »

Thomas wrote:Snuffer has said he ended up in the embrace of Christ. Sounds like a good place to me.

There really is a Christ you know not just church leaders.
Thomas, you are right.

And President Monson agrees!
The Savior’s example provides a framework for everything that we do, and His words provide an unfailing guide. His path will take us safely home. May this be our blessing, I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, whom I love, whom I serve, and of whom I testify, amen.

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ajax
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by ajax »

rewcox wrote:
Thomas wrote:Snuffer has said he ended up in the embrace of Christ. Sounds like a good place to me.

There really is a Christ you know not just church leaders.
Thomas, you are right.

And President Monson agrees!
The Savior’s example provides a framework for everything that we do, and His words provide an unfailing guide. His path will take us safely home. May this be our blessing, I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, whom I love, whom I serve, and of whom I testify, amen.
What is His path?

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rewcox
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by rewcox »

ajax wrote:What is His path?
The Savior's.

Let's start with D&C 1:
1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, saith the voice of him who dwells on high, and whose eyes are upon all men; yea, verily I say: Hearken ye people from afar; and ye that are upon the islands of the sea, listen together.

2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither ear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated.

3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.

5 And they shall go forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them.

6 Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth.

7 Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them shall be fulfilled.

8 And verily I say unto you, that they who go forth, bearing these tidings unto the inhabitants of the earth, to them is power given to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious;

9 Yea, verily, to seal them up unto the day when the wrath of God shall be poured out upon the wicked without measure—

10 Unto the day when the Lord shall come to recompense unto every man according to his work, and measure to every man according to the measure which he has measured to his fellow man.

11 Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear:

12 Prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come, for the Lord is nigh;

13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth.

14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall.

17 Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments;

18 And also gave commandments to others, that they should proclaim these things unto the world; and all this that it might be fulfilled, which was written by the prophets—

19 The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh—

20 But that every man might speak in the name of God the Lord, even the Savior of the world;

21 That faith also might increase in the earth;

22 That mine everlasting covenant might be established;

23 That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers.

24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding.

25 And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known;

26 And inasmuch as they sought wisdom they might be instructed;

27 And inasmuch as they sinned they might be chastened, that they might repent;

28 And inasmuch as they were humble they might be made strong, and blessed from on high, and receive knowledge from time to time.

29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.

30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;

33 And he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received; for my Spirit shall not always strive with man, saith the Lord of Hosts.

34 And again, verily I say unto you, O inhabitants of the earth: I the Lord am willing to make these things known unto all flesh;

35 For I am no respecter of persons, and will that all men shall know that the day speedily cometh; the hour is not yet, but is nigh at hand, when peace shall be taken from the earth, and the devil shall have power over his own dominion.

36 And also the Lord shall have power over his saints, and shall reign in their midst, and shall come down in judgment upon Idumea, or the world.

37 Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

39 For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen.

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rewcox
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by rewcox »

You can add this, a Cookie post.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=36921#p558072

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shadow
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

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Thomas wrote:Why does it have to involve Snuffer? shadow whines and complains about the unfairness of being able to discuss such issues as the 14 fundamentles talk, which there is ample evidence to say, pres Kimbal considered to be false doctrine, or to discuss whether if when the prophet speaks the thinking has been done.

Cricitical thinking involves looking at those concepts with a cricitical eye, not just swallowing down everything that comes over the pulpit and o yeah don't even try to bring up the fact how it changes all the time.

The point is shadow is free to start a thread describing how wonderful the 14 fundamentles are or how much he loves to turn his brain off once the prophet has spoken but that is not enough for him. He has the opportunity to start threads that counter those he is opposed to but instead he lobbies to have those issues removed from being open for discussion.

That is why I consider him to be against cricitical thinking.

Such assumptions on your part, Thomas.
I love to discuss, I do it all the time. The problem I bring up with this site is that the other day two snuffer threads were deleted, and that wasn't the first time. They were good discussions, but a mod shut them down, but we can have all the discussions about why people think the church has gone to hell and why the saints are blind followers of men. My problem isn't that anti garbage is all over this site, it's that anything negative about the snuffster or his followers gets deleted. The most vocal against Snuffer get banned.
You gotta think this stuff through before you post Thomas. Your ability to comprehend just about anything is sorely lacking. No wonder you're a Snuffbot.

And there isn't real evidence that Kimball disagreed with the 14 fundamentals. While he was President he had it published in the Ensign as the first presidency message. That's evidence.

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ajax
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by ajax »

rewcox wrote:
ajax wrote:What is His path?
The Savior's.
Is it correlated and controlled by man?

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rewcox
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by rewcox »

ajax wrote:
rewcox wrote:
ajax wrote:What is His path?
The Savior's.
Is it correlated and controlled by man?
Sounds like you have one of those bad wards. BroJones and others have good wards. I like mine too.

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ajax
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by ajax »

rewcox wrote:Sounds like you have one of those bad wards. BroJones and others have good wards. I like mine too.
You didn't answer the question. I like my ward btw.

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rewcox
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by rewcox »

ajax wrote:
rewcox wrote:Sounds like you have one of those bad wards. BroJones and others have good wards. I like mine too.
You didn't answer the question. I like my ward btw.
I don't consider it controlled and correlated. I also like our leaders.

Denver has a different opinion and some people follow that.

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ajax
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by ajax »

rewcox wrote:
ajax wrote:
rewcox wrote:Sounds like you have one of those bad wards. BroJones and others have good wards. I like mine too.
You didn't answer the question. I like my ward btw.
I don't consider it controlled and correlated. I also like our leaders.

Denver has a different opinion and some people follow that.
I didn't ask about Denver and it's nice that you like people. Me too.

Again, can man control or correlate "His path"?

Must "His path" for me = "His path" for you?

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rewcox
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by rewcox »

ajax wrote:I didn't ask about Denver and it's nice that you like people. Me too.

Again, can man control or correlate "His path"?

Must "His path" for me = "His path" for you?
It depends, I like blackberry cobbler. If you don't, we can never get on the same path.

Thomas
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by Thomas »

shadow wrote:
Thomas wrote:Why does it have to involve Snuffer? shadow whines and complains about the unfairness of being able to discuss such issues as the 14 fundamentles talk, which there is ample evidence to say, pres Kimbal considered to be false doctrine, or to discuss whether if when the prophet speaks the thinking has been done.

Cricitical thinking involves looking at those concepts with a cricitical eye, not just swallowing down everything that comes over the pulpit and o yeah don't even try to bring up the fact how it changes all the time.

The point is shadow is free to start a thread describing how wonderful the 14 fundamentles are or how much he loves to turn his brain off once the prophet has spoken but that is not enough for him. He has the opportunity to start threads that counter those he is opposed to but instead he lobbies to have those issues removed from being open for discussion.

That is why I consider him to be against cricitical thinking.

Such assumptions on your part, Thomas.
I love to discuss, I do it all the time. The problem I bring up with this site is that the other day two snuffer threads were deleted, and that wasn't the first time. They were good discussions, but a mod shut them down, but we can have all the discussions about why people think the church has gone to hell and why the saints are blind followers of men. My problem isn't that anti garbage is all over this site, it's that anything negative about the snuffster or his followers gets deleted. The most vocal against Snuffer get banned.
You gotta think this stuff through before you post Thomas. Your ability to comprehend just about anything is sorely lacking. No wonder you're a Snuffbot.

And there isn't real evidence that Kimball disagreed with the 14 fundamentals. While he was President he had it published in the Ensign as the first presidency message. That's evidence.
You completely misss the point that I am not free to post pro Snuffer material. So you do not want a fair playing field . You want to be able to post anti Snuffer material knowing that no one is allowed to defend against it. You are free however to post the opposite of any of what you consider anti church.

Instead you want all questions shutdown and freedom to Snuffer bash without a fair rebuttal.

Like I said, how many pro Snuffer threads have you seen in the last few months?

Thomas
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by Thomas »

I guess the difference is the pro Snuffer people have pretty much followed the rules and not created pro Snuffer threads while the anti Snuffer people keep coming back with new user names and creating the attack threads.

Pews kimbal"s son is the source of pres kimbals displeasure with the fourteen fundementals.

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Epistemology
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by Epistemology »

I hope Denver does what is needed to get his priesthood back and blessings restored. He could be such a champion for Christ and His church.

Thomas
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by Thomas »

Epistemology wrote:I hope Denver does what is needed to get his priesthood back and blessings restored. He could be such a champion for Christ and His church.
Priesthood comes from God. He alone can grant it or take it away.

See section 121.

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SempiternalHarbinger
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by SempiternalHarbinger »

...
Last edited by SempiternalHarbinger on December 16th, 2014, 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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shadow
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by shadow »

Thomas wrote: You completely misss the point that I am not free to post pro Snuffer material. So you do not want a fair playing field . You want to be able to post anti Snuffer material knowing that no one is allowed to defend against it. You are free however to post the opposite of any of what you consider anti church.

Instead you want all questions shutdown and freedom to Snuffer bash without a fair rebuttal.

Like I said, how many pro Snuffer threads have you seen in the last few months?
Thomas, turn your brain on for a minute.
It isn't me that decides what is allowed on this site. Get it? It's the mods. They allow church bashing. They do not allow Snuffer bashing. I don't care if people post anti church stuff so long as that rule is applied equally to people who post anti snuffer threads. See the difference in what you accuse me of vs. what I'm actually saying? Case in point- last week two Snuffer threads were deleted, at least one of those threads you DID post on. I know because it was a very incorrect post and I corrected you on it. So don't say you can't post on Snuffer threads. This is a Snuffer thread in case you didn't realize.

You say it's me who doesn't want the dialogue. That's false. It's the mods who don't want the dialogue. And that's fine too, I just want them to apply the rules equally if that's how they want to rule. If Church bashing is OK, fine, let Snuffer bashing be OK too. If they don't want Snuffer bashing, fine, but don't allow church bashing either. See how simple that is Thomas?? That's my argument.

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shadow
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by shadow »

SempiternalHarbinger wrote:
shadow wrote:
Thomas wrote:Why does it have to involve Snuffer? shadow whines and complains about the unfairness of being able to discuss such issues as the 14 fundamentles talk, which there is ample evidence to say, pres Kimbal considered to be false doctrine, or to discuss whether if when the prophet speaks the thinking has been done.

Cricitical thinking involves looking at those concepts with a cricitical eye, not just swallowing down everything that comes over the pulpit and o yeah don't even try to bring up the fact how it changes all the time.

The point is shadow is free to start a thread describing how wonderful the 14 fundamentles are or how much he loves to turn his brain off once the prophet has spoken but that is not enough for him. He has the opportunity to start threads that counter those he is opposed to but instead he lobbies to have those issues removed from being open for discussion.

That is why I consider him to be against cricitical thinking.

Such assumptions on your part, Thomas.
I love to discuss, I do it all the time. The problem I bring up with this site is that the other day two snuffer threads were deleted, and that wasn't the first time. They were good discussions, but a mod shut them down, but we can have all the discussions about why people think the church has gone to hell and why the saints are blind followers of men. My problem isn't that anti garbage is all over this site, it's that anything negative about the snuffster or his followers gets deleted. The most vocal against Snuffer get banned.
You gotta think this stuff through before you post Thomas. Your ability to comprehend just about anything is sorely lacking. No wonder you're a Snuffbot.

And there isn't real evidence that Kimball disagreed with the 14 fundamentals. While he was President he had it published in the Ensign as the first presidency message. That's evidence.
Hey Shawdow, hope all is well. If you don't mind me asking, why stick around LDSFF if its so bad as so full of apostasy? Personally, I'm glad you are around these days even if we disagree on a lot. I know some old and fed-up forum members started a new forum that may be more to your liking. But I should warn you that they use the same tactics they accuse others of doing on this forum. I joined a about 4 months ago and posted a few threads, problem is they deleted them all without explanation. The very ones complaining about deleting threads here were the same hypocritical ones who deleted mine over there. Go figure. But it was their right and I don't blame them for deleting them. ( It didn't reflect the forum to well) Anyway, just wanted to give you the heads up. Our buddy Mark was posting over there when I last visited which has been a long time. If you talk to him please say hi for me. Thanks
I'm an old dog :))
Good to hear from you semp!
I enjoy looking at differences, it helps me grow. I don't like unfair playing rules.

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SempiternalHarbinger
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by SempiternalHarbinger »

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Last edited by SempiternalHarbinger on December 16th, 2014, 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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