Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by A Random Phrase »

By the way, quoting the Lord (when you just made up what you claim He said) and saying He said stuff He didn't say (even if you believe He did), is taking the Lord's name in vain, and is a very serious sin so I understand - especially when used to lead people away from Him and to one's own vanity and pride.

Whether it's Denver, Pres, Monson, or the guy I'm talking about (the one whose scriptures were quoted in this thread), it's pretty serious stuff. It behooves us to make sure we know who is real, and who isn't.

EPH
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by EPH »

I have been on this board for years but rarely post but feel the need to. I was a skeptic and critic of Denver's for 5 years. Then I experienced a painful loss that broke my heart. I went to the Lord and said I was willing to learn whatever it was he had to teach me. The Lord told me to repent. I was confused because I thought I had been doing everything right. I finally stopped listening to what other people had to say about Denver and read his book for myself. The message was to turn to Christ(repent). I had believed seeking the face of the Lord was an arrogant and proud thing to do. I was painfully ignorant of what the scriptures taught on the matter. You can say what you want about Denver. I believe his message to be true. As for jumping from one patriarchy to another, Denver has never asked my obedience to him or asked me to even trust him. He has told me to repent and turn to Christ and get my answers from Him. That is good fruit. I could learn tomorrow Denver was a crook who has been lying and stealing and I could never go back to my old way of thinking. If I reject Denver's message I reject Christ's message and all the prophets who have gone before. Repent and seek the face of the Lord.
I have heard messages over the last couple of years that I have found disturbing. Most recently Elder Oaks talk at a stake conference in Boise. He said, "it is a familiar tactic of the adversary," in reference to seeking the face of the Lord. I try not to find fault in the brethren, I really do believe they are trying just like all of us. But if I followed this council, it would lead me away from Christ. Christ taught us the very opposite over and over again. None of us need Denver to tell us that.

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AI2.0
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by AI2.0 »

EPH, I hope you are careful. I've read a number of his lectures and I can tell you Denver gives a lot of truth and that's not the problem. It's the falsehoods which he also teaches that are the problem. He has become very critical of the church, he's rejected it and he's rejected our Prophets. Given where his teachings have taken HIM, I don't see how a person can continue to read and follow Denver and still expect to remain a faithful member of the church--those who can are walking a very dangerous tightrope and who knows how long they'll be able to do this.

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LatterDayLizard
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by LatterDayLizard »

EPH wrote:I have been on this board for years but rarely post but feel the need to. I was a skeptic and critic of Denver's for 5 years. Then I experienced a painful loss that broke my heart. I went to the Lord and said I was willing to learn whatever it was he had to teach me. The Lord told me to repent. I was confused because I thought I had been doing everything right. I finally stopped listening to what other people had to say about Denver and read his book for myself. The message was to turn to Christ(repent). I had believed seeking the face of the Lord was an arrogant and proud thing to do. I was painfully ignorant of what the scriptures taught on the matter. You can say what you want about Denver. I believe his message to be true. As for jumping from one patriarchy to another, Denver has never asked my obedience to him or asked me to even trust him. He has told me to repent and turn to Christ and get my answers from Him. That is good fruit. I could learn tomorrow Denver was a crook who has been lying and stealing and I could never go back to my old way of thinking. If I reject Denver's message I reject Christ's message and all the prophets who have gone before. Repent and seek the face of the Lord.
I have heard messages over the last couple of years that I have found disturbing. Most recently Elder Oaks talk at a stake conference in Boise. He said, "it is a familiar tactic of the adversary," in reference to seeking the face of the Lord. I try not to find fault in the brethren, I really do believe they are trying just like all of us. But if I followed this council, it would lead me away from Christ. Christ taught us the very opposite over and over again. None of us need Denver to tell us that.
What else did Elder Oaks have to say and who was he talking about? One sentence from a talk, shared second hand, isn't very illuminating. We can't determine what he meant based on that. It is however a familiar tactic of the adversary to lead us away from what the apostles are teaching by using a troubling phrase or idea to lead us to doubt rather than investigate further. Some of my best insights from an apostle's talk have been sparked by my being troubled at their words and making the effort to take it to the Lord for understanding. Don't assume you understand what they meant and then walk away. Sometimes understanding takes time and we have to be patient.
In my experience, seeking the face of the Lord, if done righteously, is as wonderful as you described it above. But I also believe it can be done inappropriately. If we seek after things in a manner pleasing to God and within his timetable, we will be blessed with those experiences that will bless us the most and stimulate the best growth as opposed to experiences that would merely satisfy our baser desires.

boo
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by boo »

LatterDayLizard wrote:
EPH wrote:I have been on this board for years but rarely post but feel the need to. I was a skeptic and critic of Denver's for 5 years. Then I experienced a painful loss that broke my heart. I went to the Lord and said I was willing to learn whatever it was he had to teach me. The Lord told me to repent. I was confused because I thought I had been doing everything right. I finally stopped listening to what other people had to say about Denver and read his book for myself. The message was to turn to Christ(repent). I had believed seeking the face of the Lord was an arrogant and proud thing to do. I was painfully ignorant of what the scriptures taught on the matter. You can say what you want about Denver. I believe his message to be true. As for jumping from one patriarchy to another, Denver has never asked my obedience to him or asked me to even trust him. He has told me to repent and turn to Christ and get my answers from Him. That is good fruit. I could learn tomorrow Denver was a crook who has been lying and stealing and I could never go back to my old way of thinking. If I reject Denver's message I reject Christ's message and all the prophets who have gone before. Repent and seek the face of the Lord.
I have heard messages over the last couple of years that I have found disturbing. Most recently Elder Oaks talk at a stake conference in Boise. He said, "it is a familiar tactic of the adversary," in reference to seeking the face of the Lord. I try not to find fault in the brethren, I really do believe they are trying just like all of us. But if I followed this council, it would lead me away from Christ. Christ taught us the very opposite over and over again. None of us need Denver to tell us that.
What else did Elder Oaks have to say and who was he talking about? One sentence from a talk, shared second hand, isn't very illuminating. We can't determine what he meant based on that. It is however a familiar tactic of the adversary to lead us away from what the apostles are teaching by using a troubling phrase or idea to lead us to doubt rather than investigate further. Some of my best insights from an apostle's talk have been sparked by my being troubled at their words and making the effort to take it to the Lord for understanding. Don't assume you understand what they meant and then walk away. Sometimes understanding takes time and we have to be patient.
In my experience, seeking the face of the Lord, if done righteously, is as wonderful as you described it above. But I also believe it can be done inappropriately. If we seek after things in a manner pleasing to God and within his timetable, we will be blessed with those experiences that will bless us the most and stimulate the best growth as opposed to experiences that would merely satisfy our baser desires.
Look on Ytube under Boise Rescue . You can listen to the whole thing. You might want to listen carefully to how he explains as an apostle he isn't suppose to bear witness of Christ but only the Name of Christ.It is actually very revealing.

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LatterDayLizard
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Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by LatterDayLizard »

[quote="boo"
Look on Ytube under Boise Rescue . You can listen to the whole thing. You might want to listen carefully to how he explains as an apostle he isn't suppose to bear witness of Christ but only the Name of Christ.It is actually very revealing.[/quote]

I caught that. It doesn't surprise me at all, given the climate we live in.

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LatterDayLizard
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Location: Kansas City MO

Re: Denver Snuffer - Patriarchy

Post by LatterDayLizard »

EPH wrote: I have heard messages over the last couple of years that I have found disturbing. Most recently Elder Oaks talk at a stake conference in Boise. He said, "it is a familiar tactic of the adversary," in reference to seeking the face of the Lord. I try not to find fault in the brethren, I really do believe they are trying just like all of us. But if I followed this council, it would lead me away from Christ. Christ taught us the very opposite over and over again. None of us need Denver to tell us that.
Here's the full statement from that talk:

"Of course, all of the righteous desire to see the face of our Savior, but the suggestions that this must happen IN MORTALITY is a familiar tactic of the adversary. To identify a worthy goal, such as to achieve exaltation, and then to use the desirability of that goal and people’s enthusiasm for it to obscure the new means the adversary suggests to achieve it. The means are important, even vital. As the Lord said in another setting, ‘it must needs be done in mine own way.’

Elder Oaks is saying that it is the adversary's tactic to CHANGE the doctrine by suggesting that in order to achieve exaltation we have to LITERALLY see the face of the Lord IN THIS LIFE. It is not in seeing, but in seeking after Christ faithfully that we obtain eternal life. Otherwise our faith is not exercised and many whose lives were cut short without having that experience would fall short of exaltation despite their repentance, faith, and righteous covenant keeping - these things constitute the "doctrine of Christ" (2 Nep 31:19-21).

Nephi saw the face of Christ. Sam believed his brother. Both were edified. :ymhug:

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