Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

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shadow
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by shadow »

And how would you explain God telling David that if he wanted more, he would be given more?

Zathura
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Zathura »

shadow wrote:And how would you explain God telling David that if he wanted more, he would be given more?
Lets take a break from this line of thought.

Do you believe that marriage, polygamy, and the sealing principles are all connected?
Is an understanding of the sealing principles needed to understand polygamy?

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shadow
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by shadow »

They can be connected, but they don't have to be. In OT times when a wife lost her husband, her husbands brother could (was supposed to??) marry her. That isn't eternal. No sealing principles there, and yet it was polygamy.

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Melissa
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Melissa »

shadow wrote:And how would you explain God telling David that if he wanted more, he would be given more?
I think this was an expression from God of his sadness toward losing David. God wanted to bless David and he would have given him whatever he needed and indeed had given him much....but David still needed more (kind of telling God that he wasn't enough).

I believe it was God saying to David, I would have given you everything you needed because I love you and I want you to be a great man and return to rule in heaven. I think David really slapped God in the face and we see the sadness in His words. God weeps and mourns over losing his children.

It's quite a lesson embedded in a polygamy story. I really don't think it was about giving David more women to sleep with. There is ALWAYS a deeper meaning and a different perspective in the scripture stories.

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Melissa
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Melissa »

shadow wrote:They can be connected, but they don't have to be. In OT times when a wife lost her husband, her husbands brother could (was supposed to??) marry her. That isn't eternal. No sealing principles there, and yet it was polygamy.
Might I mention here that they are connected and that is exactly why she was to marry the brother after her husband died. Kept it in the family and he was to raise seed to his dead brother. The priciple of the sealing is behind the practice.

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by dewajack »

I've included a link below with rare footage of Thomas B. Marsh's first visit to Brigham Young's Beehive House.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZB6pLFfz4Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Young had a way with words, in regards to Thomas B. Marsh, he stated,
He has told you that he is an old man. Do you think that I am an old man? I could prove to this congregation that I am young; for I could find more girls who would choose me for a husband than can any of the young men . . . When brother Thomas thought of returning to the Church, the plurality of wives troubled him a good deal. Look at him. Do you think it need to? I do not; for I doubt whether he could get one wife. Why it should have troubled an infirm old man like him is not for me to say

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by freedomforall »

Stahura wrote::-? :-? :-? :-? Yeah, sure, God commanded some men to take certain wives. Like Solomon, and David. They were told which specific wives to marry.
Did Brigham Young do this? Was he told specifically which wives to take? Nope, his attitude about the whole process was pretty relaxed. He just took whoever he wanted.
Seems odd that David and Solomon only sinned in taking wives that God DIDN"T give to them, but Brigham is just fine taking wives without them being Given to him, using his priesthood as justification.

Clearly polygamy has existed and by God's command, but the version practiced by Brigham Young does not align with the way Abraham/David/Solomon/Jacob practiced it(in that they did not sin, only by taking women that God did not specifically give to them). I believe that members were met with judgement because of this.
What are your sources proving that Brigham only took who he wanted. What are the facts?

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by freedomforall »

Stahura wrote:
shadow wrote:
Stahura wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
Why? Seems selfish not to allow worthy women the opportunity to be mothers in Zion.
Because I believe the Book of Mormon when it says it's an abomination /shrug
This has been an interesting last few posts. First you establish that God does indeed allow polygamy using David etc. as examples. Then you question section 132 as possibly being false, and if it's false you reject polygamy altogether. Then you share your interpretation of Jacob in the BOM as definitive that it's always an abomination.

If people ever accuse you of being confused, just agree with them :))
i said that it's clear that God has allowed it with a FEW men throughout history. As in like, at least 6 men in the last 6000 years, and that apparently, God is okay with it in very rare circumstances.

With those RARE CIRCUMSTANCES, it's clear that God gave them more wives, and they did not sin in having more wives EXCEPT if they took a wife that wasn't GIVEN to them. (Like David did, and Brigham Young)

That same God called Polygamy an abomination. So therefore, it must be an abomination with very few exceptions. When it comes to those exceptions, logically it will work the way it did 4000 years ago, when God told a specific man which specific woman he could marry.

It's not that confusing or contradictory if you open your mind and let go of your /traditions/opinion and quit thinking you already know everything for like 2 seconds :)

So, If the church brings back polygamy, I will reject it, because it will bring back the form that Brigham Young taught, and the form that he taught is the type that God called an abomination in the Book of Mormon.

What I've said is clear as day.
It is also clear that if God said to marry mores wives, you would outright disobey. I'm not in favor of polygamy either, but sex is not the only reason or purpose for having more than one wife, if it were ED would be a real problem in bringing forth children.
It is said that Joseph Smith had no offspring from any wife other than EMMA, none that I have been made aware of anyway. It is said, too, that he was sealed to other women that already were married to another man. Can anyone verify this? I think FairMormon has info on it. I'm not stating one way or another what is truth and what is fiction with regard to JS. I merely read it someplace. It doesn't effect my salvation one way or another anyway.

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Zathura »

If God told me, that's another story

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Sarah
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Sarah »

In Truman Madsen's commentary on Joseph Smith, he said that the Lord told Joseph he had "given" Emma to him as his wife. That implies that even though Joseph probably thought it was all his doing that Emma became his wife, the Lord had actually foreordained Emma to be his wife, and had indeed "given" her to him. I think the same thing applies to all these men. They were given their wives by the Lord, and as a sign that they were approved, the prophet would approve or marry them. They still get to choose the women, but if it is done under the authority of God, then it is approved by the Lord, and He in fact has given those women to the men.

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Fiannan »

Amazing that some people here discuss women as property...you know, "If God gave this woman or that woman to a prophet" sort of thing. The quote about Brigham Young saying, even as an old man, that he could get more young wives if he wanted might anger some people but it reveals something about the issue - it was not some sort of revelation to a man to take an additional wife or not.

Ah, but doesn't that make it more sordid? Doesn't that make it somewhat lustful? Well, if you believe your own courtship with your current spouse was based on lust then fine, be my guest. I however feel that we have a very distorted view of what polygamy involved in the 19th and early 20th centuries of the Church. And that distortion devalues women far more that any alleged devaluation that polygamy is supposed to entail.

If you believe "God gave and that makes it special" then women are commodities to be awarded once you reach a certain level of leadership, a prize for a calling so to speak. Don't you see how repulsive, and also historically inaccurate that is? Why would Church leaders have berated men in General Conference for not taking more wives when they could? Brigham Young's statement above, coupled with that, shows that polygamy was a form of marriage just like practiced by the folks on "Sister Wives" in the plural wives context and just like your marriage was, it was mutual attraction coupled with courtship and marriage. And understanding that empowers the status of women at that time far more than God being portrayed as an ISIS commander awarding his most devoted warriors with fresh young trophies.

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Zathura »

Regardless of what anybody says, the way polygamy was practiced is repulsive to me, that's my belief, and I have that right . Joseph Smith also wanted the freedom to believe as he wished.

I don't have to live it, and I never will.

If someone brings the topic up, I will speak my mind. Other than that, I'm more than happy to lay this abomination to rest.

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Zathura »

Sarah wrote:In Truman Madsen's commentary on Joseph Smith, he said that the Lord told Joseph he had "given" Emma to him as his wife. That implies that even though Joseph probably thought it was all his doing that Emma became his wife, the Lord had actually foreordained Emma to be his wife, and had indeed "given" her to him. I think the same thing applies to all these men. They were given their wives by the Lord, and as a sign that they were approved, the prophet would approve or marry them. They still get to choose the women, but if it is done under the authority of God, then it is approved by the Lord, and He in fact has given those women to the men.
I don't agree with this reasoning. Too many assumptions are made, too much of a stretch.

"Emma was given to Joseph, therefore every other woman of every polygamous church leader MUST have been given to them, every single one" That doesn't make sense.

"if it is done with authority, then it is approved".

That just sounds like jangling keys out in front of you saying " I have these keys, I will marry you, her, and her and it's automatically the will of God because of these keys." that sounds very arrogant to me.

Sarah, David had priesthood, and those special "keys" that you mention. Since he apparently gets to choose the women(as you said), then why did he get in trouble for picking Bathsheba? It doesn't have to do with the fact that she was married or that he killed her husband. It's because God didn't give her to him. God said that he was justified for all the women he had EXCEPT Bathsheba, who happened to be the one that he went out and picked for himself.

Brigham Young says Joseph approved plural marriages, all though he did nothing but deny polygamy.

Brigham Young approved them, because he believed he was correct.

Marriage is connected to sealing, and Brigham Young did not understand the sealing principles. That is why he asked Joseph in a vision to teach him about sealing principles, to which Joseph did not answer, but instead spoke of the Holy Spirit. Him teaching something he doesn't understand casts even more of a shadow on this practice.

That's like me deciding "hey, I have the priesthood, I want to marry this girl and this girl", and going up to Brigham Young and saying marry us, and Brigham says "Okay my friend, by virtue of my keys, you now have wife number 2 and 3 and this is automatically of God". That situation is wrong, it is not the way God works, and I reject it.


I see too much effort that goes into defending this practice. Too many scriptures are ignored, too many quotes and journal entries. The only defense is this talk about keys and authority, and this refusal to accept that Brigham Young could have possibly made a mistake in his life.


sorry Sarah, I love everything you say. You're very reasonable and you truly are an enlightened person , and one of the people I most enjoy speaking to and learning from, but I dislike this post.

What hurts me more than the practice itself, is the defense I see of it.

Do you realize how often I've seen Mormons tell other Christians that polygamy never happened ? I've seen Mormons make utter fools of themselves, as they fervently denied that polygamy happened. Are they right? No, they are fools. They couldn't be more wrong, and yet they convince themselves that they are correct.
I see this all the time. I see members ignore scripture after scripture because they will not give up their tradition. This is what hurts me the most.

anyways, its time for me to get out of this discussion. It's going downhill, and I'm gonna make it worse. I've noticed that I'm getting contentious, my apologies.

Peace and Love :)

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Sarah
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Sarah »

Stahura wrote:
Sarah wrote:In Truman Madsen's commentary on Joseph Smith, he said that the Lord told Joseph he had "given" Emma to him as his wife. That implies that even though Joseph probably thought it was all his doing that Emma became his wife, the Lord had actually foreordained Emma to be his wife, and had indeed "given" her to him. I think the same thing applies to all these men. They were given their wives by the Lord, and as a sign that they were approved, the prophet would approve or marry them. They still get to choose the women, but if it is done under the authority of God, then it is approved by the Lord, and He in fact has given those women to the men.
I don't agree with this reasoning. Too many assumptions are made, too much of a stretch.

"Emma was given to Joseph, therefore every other woman of every polygamous church leader MUST have been given to them, every single one" That doesn't make sense.

"if it is done with authority, then it is approved".

That just sounds like jangling keys out in front of you saying " I have these keys, I will marry you, her, and her and it's automatically the will of God because of these keys." that sounds very arrogant to me.

Sarah, David had priesthood, and those special "keys" that you mention. Since he apparently gets to choose the women(as you said), then why did he get in trouble for picking Bathsheba? It doesn't have to do with the fact that she was married or that he killed her husband. It's because God didn't give her to him. God said that he was justified for all the women he had EXCEPT Bathsheba, who happened to be the one that he went out and picked for himself.

How do you know it had something to do with Bathsheba "not being given" to him and wasn't because "she was married or that he killed her husband?"

Brigham Young says Joseph approved plural marriages, all though he did nothing but deny polygamy.

Joseph did do things besides deny polygamy, he did a lot of talking about it to others in private, and actually entered plural marriages himself. I will post some quotes later. He made public denouncements of it because it was being practiced in and out of the Church in unauthorized ways. It was not a commandment for the entire Church membership at that time, and he had to make that clear. He also thought of the world's definition of polygamy and what he was doing as different things, therefore he could honestly say that he was not practicing it the way the word was commonly defined.

Brigham Young approved them, because he believed he was correct.

Marriage is connected to sealing, and Brigham Young did not understand the sealing principles. That is why he asked Joseph in a vision to teach him about sealing principles, to which Joseph did not answer, but instead spoke of the Holy Spirit. Him teaching something he doesn't understand casts even more of a shadow on this practice.

That's like me deciding "hey, I have the priesthood, I want to marry this girl and this girl", and going up to Brigham Young and saying marry us, and Brigham says "Okay my friend, by virtue of my keys, you now have wife number 2 and 3 and this is automatically of God". That situation is wrong, it is not the way God works, and I reject it.

This is why Joseph said to Brigham that they had to keep the spirit of the Lord with them, to know whom to seal to who. The spirit would manifest which sealings should take place. It is up to the men and women who are contemplating marriage together to get this confirmation before going forward. As long as the prophet or presiding authority can feel good about a proposed match, and can seal them with the sealing keys, in the bounds of the law the Lord has set, then it should be approved by the Lord. The Lord set new bounds to the covenant of marriage, and it is our job to act within those bounds. The newly revealed law of plurality gave new bounds as to what sealings could take place, as long as they were done through sealing authority.

I see too much effort that goes into defending this practice. Too many scriptures are ignored, too many quotes and journal entries. The only defense is this talk about keys and authority, and this refusal to accept that Brigham Young could have possibly made a mistake in his life.


sorry Sarah, I love everything you say. You're very reasonable and you truly are an enlightened person , and one of the people I most enjoy speaking to and learning from, but I dislike this post.

What hurts me more than the practice itself, is the defense I see of it.

I appreciate all the compliments, as I also enjoy engaging in conversation with you, but what saddens me is all the hurt that is associated with the idea of this someday being presented as a request or opportunity of practicing it, and the blessings that will be rejected because of the angst and misunderstanding of it's purposes. It is a test of faith, but when one acts on faith and trust, understanding can occur.

Do you realize how often I've seen Mormons tell other Christians that polygamy never happened ? I've seen Mormons make utter fools of themselves, as they fervently denied that polygamy happened. Are they right? No, they are fools. They couldn't be more wrong, and yet they convince themselves that they are correct.
I see this all the time. I see members ignore scripture after scripture because they will not give up their tradition. This is what hurts me the most.

anyways, its time for me to get out of this discussion. It's going downhill, and I'm gonna make it worse. I've noticed that I'm getting contentious, my apologies.

Peace and Love :)
:)

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by freedomforall »

Stahura wrote:If God told me, that's another story
And just who do you suppose would get the command first, you or the servants of God?

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Fiannan »

Like I posted earlier, a man in Britain has donated sperm and now has 800 biological children, with one new birth per week.

Let us assume half of the women are in lesbian relationships, or heterosexual with a sterile husband. I will bet a lot of the 400 remaining children were born to women who just could not find a good man who wanted to marry and have kids. I will bet a few of them are LDS women.

So when I hear people say that polygamy would not work in the western world I would say it would work better here than anyplace else because women have an expectation of rights (well, that may not last long if the Merkel regime continues to destroy Germany). However, we are quickly heading as a culture and a Church to decline in numbers due to suicidal mindset towards family and marriage. At least many women are finding other options and at least there are men out there like Mr. 800 who is filling the space left by males who are unwilling to marry and become fathers.

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Melissa
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Melissa »

freedomforall wrote:
Stahura wrote::-? :-? :-? :-? Yeah, sure, God commanded some men to take certain wives. Like Solomon, and David. They were told which specific wives to marry.
Did Brigham Young do this? Was he told specifically which wives to take? Nope, his attitude about the whole process was pretty relaxed. He just took whoever he wanted.
Seems odd that David and Solomon only sinned in taking wives that God DIDN"T give to them, but Brigham is just fine taking wives without them being Given to him, using his priesthood as justification.

Clearly polygamy has existed and by God's command, but the version practiced by Brigham Young does not align with the way Abraham/David/Solomon/Jacob practiced it(in that they did not sin, only by taking women that God did not specifically give to them). I believe that members were met with judgement because of this.
What are your sources proving that Brigham only took who he wanted. What are the facts?
There is a quote of Brigham saying that he wouldn't refuse any reasonable offer.

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Sarah
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Sarah »

Fiannan wrote:Like I posted earlier, a man in Britain has donated sperm and now has 800 biological children, with one new birth per week.

Let us assume half of the women are in lesbian relationships, or heterosexual with a sterile husband. I will bet a lot of the 400 remaining children were born to women who just could not find a good man who wanted to marry and have kids. I will bet a few of them are LDS women.

So when I hear people say that polygamy would not work in the western world I would say it would work better here than anyplace else because women have an expectation of rights (well, that may not last long if the Merkel regime continues to destroy Germany). However, we are quickly heading as a culture and a Church to decline in numbers due to suicidal mindset towards family and marriage. At least many women are finding other options and at least there are men out there like Mr. 800 who is filling the space left by males who are unwilling to marry and become fathers.
And maybe it is this expectation of rights that is the reason we as a Church don't support an "anything goes" mentality when it comes to legally defining marriage. The reason government regulates and defines marriage in the first place is to protect the rights of children, and to hold parents accountable for them. By defining marriage and giving married partners certain rights, this institution becomes encouraged and endorsed by the government. Can we say that polygamy is the best thing to encourage for children's sake? I don't think we can.
If polygamy was legalized, and because our country does have an "everything goes" mentality towards family structure, I think we would see abuses and group marriages demanding rights, and the word marriage would become meaningless. It's becoming that way already with gay marriage.

The bounds of marriage were intended to be something God was able to define, and it was also a religious ceremony, so perhaps back in the early days of the Church, it would have been okay to support a legal recognition of polygamy, but we have gone so far as a people from the truth and moral living, that restricting bad behavior in a legal sense is the right thing to do. Same argument could be applied to alcohol. If it wasn't for wickedness and conspiring men, we might not need laws to regulate it. So bottom line, I would not be supportive of legalizing polygamy. Our gov. is in a position now to not only let it occur, but to support and encourage its practice, and I don't believe God ever wanted it practiced except among his covenant people.

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by freedomforall »

Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Stahura wrote::-? :-? :-? :-? Yeah, sure, God commanded some men to take certain wives. Like Solomon, and David. They were told which specific wives to marry.
Did Brigham Young do this? Was he told specifically which wives to take? Nope, his attitude about the whole process was pretty relaxed. He just took whoever he wanted.
Seems odd that David and Solomon only sinned in taking wives that God DIDN"T give to them, but Brigham is just fine taking wives without them being Given to him, using his priesthood as justification.

Clearly polygamy has existed and by God's command, but the version practiced by Brigham Young does not align with the way Abraham/David/Solomon/Jacob practiced it(in that they did not sin, only by taking women that God did not specifically give to them). I believe that members were met with judgement because of this.
What are your sources proving that Brigham only took who he wanted. What are the facts?
There is a quote of Brigham saying that he wouldn't refuse any reasonable offer.
Is being offered something the same as taking it at will against the wishes or complaints of others?

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Zathura »

freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Stahura wrote::-? :-? :-? :-? Yeah, sure, God commanded some men to take certain wives. Like Solomon, and David. They were told which specific wives to marry.
Did Brigham Young do this? Was he told specifically which wives to take? Nope, his attitude about the whole process was pretty relaxed. He just took whoever he wanted.
Seems odd that David and Solomon only sinned in taking wives that God DIDN"T give to them, but Brigham is just fine taking wives without them being Given to him, using his priesthood as justification.

Clearly polygamy has existed and by God's command, but the version practiced by Brigham Young does not align with the way Abraham/David/Solomon/Jacob practiced it(in that they did not sin, only by taking women that God did not specifically give to them). I believe that members were met with judgement because of this.
What are your sources proving that Brigham only took who he wanted. What are the facts?
There is a quote of Brigham saying that he wouldn't refuse any reasonable offer.
Is being offered something the same as taking it at will against the wishes or complaints of others?
a "reasonable offer" is quite different from God saying "Brigham, marry Alice".

the quote is evidence of his attitude toward polygamy. The attitude that he can take anybody he wants, or "any reasonable offer.

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Melissa
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Melissa »

freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Stahura wrote::-? :-? :-? :-? Yeah, sure, God commanded some men to take certain wives. Like Solomon, and David. They were told which specific wives to marry.
Did Brigham Young do this? Was he told specifically which wives to take? Nope, his attitude about the whole process was pretty relaxed. He just took whoever he wanted.
Seems odd that David and Solomon only sinned in taking wives that God DIDN"T give to them, but Brigham is just fine taking wives without them being Given to him, using his priesthood as justification.

Clearly polygamy has existed and by God's command, but the version practiced by Brigham Young does not align with the way Abraham/David/Solomon/Jacob practiced it(in that they did not sin, only by taking women that God did not specifically give to them). I believe that members were met with judgement because of this.
What are your sources proving that Brigham only took who he wanted. What are the facts?
There is a quote of Brigham saying that he wouldn't refuse any reasonable offer.
Is being offered something the same as taking it at will against the wishes or complaints of others?
Why does it cause you troubles to recognize that maybe, just maybe, the early practice of polygamy wasn't something that was done correctly?

What do you say about the recent remarks from Uchtdorf stating that there were mistakes made in the early church? What mistakes? Do you think how the implementation and continuation of polygamy occured is excused from his remarks?

There are numerous quotes from Brigham that are really offensive and wrong. He was a pretty arrogant man with things despite being a prophet.

If you were a woman, would you really be okay with it all?

freedomforall
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by freedomforall »

Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote: What are your sources proving that Brigham only took who he wanted. What are the facts?
There is a quote of Brigham saying that he wouldn't refuse any reasonable offer.
Is being offered something the same as taking it at will against the wishes or complaints of others?
Why does it cause you troubles to recognize that maybe, just maybe, the early practice of polygamy wasn't something that was done correctly? And God would have turned a blind eye to it all? Really?

What do you say about the recent remarks from Uchtdorf stating that there were mistakes made in the early church? What mistakes? Do you think how the implementation and continuation of polygamy occured is excused from his remarks?

There are numerous quotes from Brigham that are really offensive and wrong. He was a pretty arrogant man with things despite being a prophet.

If you were a woman, would you really be okay with it all?
What is the source of this supposed statement by BY?
What were his thoughts behind it? Arrogance or humor? Only the full context surrounding this statement could reveal which one.
My g-g-grandfather, Wilford Woodruff, had several wives, however, I have no desire to follow in those footsteps. The Lord says this:

Jacob 2:28
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

Jacob 2:30
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

Frankly, I don't give two hoots for all the hub-bub over polygamy. Gee, one would think the women of today are actually living it, or faced with it any moment.
If I were a woman I would let the past stay in the past and live today. We have enough problems to face already. If and when God ever commands plural marriage again, then worry about it.

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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by lgr3065 »

There is real concern that it will be implemented again. There are cases going through the courts, as we speak, challenging the right to practice since the guys have been given the right to marriage. In the Church, it may not be considered doctrine at this moment, however, the doctrine remains in our scriptures as D & C 132. So it is worrisome for many members. Just what will the Church do if polygamy becomes the law of the land.

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Melissa
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Melissa »

freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:
There is a quote of Brigham saying that he wouldn't refuse any reasonable offer.
Is being offered something the same as taking it at will against the wishes or complaints of others?
Why does it cause you troubles to recognize that maybe, just maybe, the early practice of polygamy wasn't something that was done correctly? And God would have turned a blind eye to it all? Really?

What do you say about the recent remarks from Uchtdorf stating that there were mistakes made in the early church? What mistakes? Do you think how the implementation and continuation of polygamy occured is excused from his remarks?

There are numerous quotes from Brigham that are really offensive and wrong. He was a pretty arrogant man with things despite being a prophet.

If you were a woman, would you really be okay with it all?
What is the source of this supposed statement by BY?
What were his thoughts behind it? Arrogance or humor? Only the full context surrounding this statement could reveal which one.
My g-g-grandfather, Wilford Woodruff, had several wives, however, I have no desire to follow in those footsteps. The Lord says this:

Jacob 2:28
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

Jacob 2:30
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

Frankly, I don't give two hoots for all the hub-bub over polygamy. Gee, one would think the women of today are actually living it, or faced with it any moment.
If I were a woman I would let the past stay in the past and live today. We have enough problems to face already. If and when God ever commands plural marriage again, then worry about it.
"Gee, one would think the women of today are actually living it, or faced with it any moment.
If I were a woman I would let the past stay in the past and live today. "

So...the idea of it being lived in the past, D&C 132, all the debate over it and many members believing it will come back and many men thinking they will get to live it...and all the talk and regarding women as less than wouldn't bother you? Really? Well, your not a woman and so maybe you shouldn't be judgemental to women who do have a reason to question and voice their concerns over living a way that is offensive and repulsive to them.

God turning a blind eye?? Can he do that?

God let Abraham mock Him. God let David seduce bathsheba and send her husband to battle. Was He blind?

No, we have agency. Does he turn a blind eye to the men and women in the church who beat their children and the Father's who rape their own daughters? Because they are not being caught or not having an angel of God rebuke them?

Context of the quote, I have no idea. It's just a quote I read on one of the other polygamy forums. Maybe someone else knows where it is. The question of it being arrogance or humor...I consider either option as innopropriate for a prophet of God.

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Melissa
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Re: Polygamy - how do I feel good about this???

Post by Melissa »

lgr3065 wrote:There is real concern that it will be implemented again. There are cases going through the courts, as we speak, challenging the right to practice since the guys have been given the right to marriage. In the Church, it may not be considered doctrine at this moment, however, the doctrine remains in our scriptures as D & C 132. So it is worrisome for many members. Just what will the Church do if polygamy becomes the law of the land.
Yes! And the church will not say if it will be lived again or not. So, there is a threat of it.

I honestly believe that the church will not change its current policy if polygamy is leagalized.

What I wonder is how many would find issue or even leave the church if they don't allow members to do it. It seems that it's kind of Mormon culture in the background of many members minds. So many believe it is the way of marriage for LDS people, both men and women.

I personally cannot wrap my head around it all. I do not get it. Polygamy is an insult to everything I think is good between a man and a woman. But hey, that's just me. Others feel quite different about it.

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