husband trying to recover from porn addiction

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jsk
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by jsk »

Fiannan wrote:
jsk wrote:Very clever...I am a Star Wars fan.

But ultimately incorrect.

There are plenty of cases where our Heavenly Father deals in absolutes. It is absolutely wrong to commit adultery. It is absolutely wrong to commit first degree murder. It is absolutely wrong to engage in pornography. The list could go on and on.

So...your premise is incorrect.
Esther was married to Mordecai when she was put forward to become Xerxes' concubine and then wife.

Based on some Jewish traditions, they were married. However, according to lds.org, she was his adopted daughter. I think I'll go with the lds.org statement. You will presumably stick with the (undoubtedly incorrect) Jewish tradition as this will allow you to maintain your paradigm that there are no absolutes, when clearly there are.

jsk
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by jsk »

Fiannan wrote:
Do you have ADD?
You believe in ADD?

Anyway, I would hesitate going by the handbook. It is a general policy statement, not scripture. If it were scripture it does, in places, contradict past prophets. And if the handbook was scripture it would not have been kept from the lay membership for so long.

Sure...I believe there is such a thing as ADD. I believe it is way over diagnosed, particularly in boys, and that many have been labeled as ADD when in fact they are just normal and have high energy. But yes...I do think there is such a thing. And with the way you continually deflect questions I was thinking your short attention span might have been the result of ADD. ;)

Being serious...there are certainly administrative things contained in the Handbook that I don't think are necessarily the result of direct revelation...for instance...the prohibition on actually cooking things in kitchens contained in chapel buildings. But when it comes to substantive issues, I do think the Handbook contains the revealed will of the Lord. As an example, in response to criticism concerning the recent implementation of the Church's LGBT policies (ex. baptism of children of of gay married couples) and the argument that this was simply a man-made protocol that could be changed, Russell M. Nelson has been very clear that these policies represent the revealed will of the Lord.

So...I think your argument that things contained in the Handbook can be ignored as simply policy statements and not the revealed will of the Lord is incorrect. You seem like you hold yourself in pretty high esteem...so I'm sure someone as intelligent as yourself can easily make the distinction between those things in the Handbook that are administrative and non-substantive and those things that are substantive and represent things the Brethren would have obviously inquired of the Lord and represent his revealed will (i.e. artificial insemination of single women).

And so what if past Prophets are contradicted? I follow the current Prophets, and if what they say contradicts or replaces statements by earlier Prophets, I have no issue with that and will follow the current guidance.

Times change...and while doctrine doesn't change, policies certainly can change based on the revealed will of the Lord, who can giveth and revoketh and changeth commandments as seemeth him good.

TCG
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by TCG »

utahmomma wrote:So yeah, do any of you have any experience dealing with this kind of thing? I think it would help me if I could talk about this with someone who understands what is like. Right now I feel heart broken and I'm not really sure what I need to do to help him kick the addiction, if that's even possible.
I was exposed to porno by a neighbor friend at the age 8. Affected my life but didn't ruin it. Sad to say most of my lds friends young deacons, thought it was funny trying to unscramble Play Boy channel as we all huddled around the TV set like horny little dogs waiting for the peep show to clear from the lines....Can't say I was addicted to watch it daily, but was all around me with my older brothers to my college years. Again I was exposed to it with former college teammates, and yes I did partake...LOL. I don't mean to make it into a laughing matter because it did follow me into my marriage.
I would occasionally stumble across something on TV and say to meself...hmmmmm looks yummy.....lol and fall into its trap. My first couple years of marriage I'd say 3 or 4 times watching, then I'd go years with no peep. When Internet became more accessible over the years 1998-present, It was so dang easy to peep. Thus the natural man surfaced at times, again occasionally peeping and the guilt would snap me out. Again months and years go by and once in a while I stumble across something that triggers the lustful man and become a victim to this hideous temptation. I've never cheated on my spouse in terms of physically being with another women but viewing this garbage is just as bad. It promotes false expectations of love and sex. I have an honorable and awesome wife who I have been up front with this problem. It's been a few years since my last encounter , but the problem is ever lurking and ever ready. It takes a willing mind a feeling of guilt and the heart of a Lion to combat the urge to peep. Prayers for strength and choosing what you put in your head and in front of your eyes must happen hourly, daily,weekly, monthly yearly, but starts one day at a time.

Good luck and may the good Lord bless you and your husband.

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

So...I think your argument that things contained in the Handbook can be ignored as simply policy statements and not the revealed will of the Lord is incorrect. You seem like you hold yourself in pretty high esteem...so I'm sure someone as intelligent as yourself can easily make the distinction between those things in the Handbook that are administrative and non-substantive and those things that are substantive and represent things the Brethren would have obviously inquired of the Lord and represent his revealed will (i.e. artificial insemination of single women).
If they say, "Thus sayeth the Lord" in regards to that policy (which I have said I have problems with) then I will treat it as revealed. From what I have heard from people who have connections is that it was developed due to legal issues. But hey, maybe a couple that divorces, the children are given to the mom, said mom marries a woman she met at relief society and, well, no way the husband has the right to baptize his children, right?
And so what if past Prophets are contradicted? I follow the current Prophets, and if what they say contradicts or replaces statements by earlier Prophets, I have no issue with that and will follow the current guidance.
Well, past Church leaders said birth control for family limitation was a grave sin, yeah, a really big sin. Now we have a more legal "policy" in the handbook implying we should have families but leaving it vague as to whether people should see birth control as a good thing or bad. That really has caused a lot of contention within debate forums involving members but hey, Mitt said it would take a lawyer to interpret the Church stance on abortion so I suppose birth control is no different. Check clip at 11 minutes.
Times change...and while doctrine doesn't change, policies certainly can change based on the revealed will of the Lord, who can giveth and revoketh and changeth commandments as seemeth him good.
You do realize that is the stance the "give women the priesthood" and "let gay get sealed" people have as well, right?

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Warrior Of Jah
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Warrior Of Jah »

porn is the worst thing already maked to destroy people, he must understant it first, and after he should to seek the love in you

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

Interesting article:

http://www.socioaffectiveneuroscipsycho ... view/20770" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Juliet
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Juliet »

Sirocco wrote:Personally I think porn has few uses, one I think is for people who can't for whatever reason, find someone to be with.
I donno, not everyone gets to get married and be with people.
I've never had one, not from lack of trying when I was younger but after awhile, failure has a way of seeping in and you just don't want to bother with it anymore.
i don't want to bother with it anymore. People get more crazy everyday and it gets harder every day.
Besides it can't be that meaningful, I can't get that close to people, my brain is cracked, as it were. So what do I do?
I can understand. I find being around people is hard since so many of us have burdens it is hard to lift each other. One thing is to ask to be delivered from the spirit of failure. You're not an exception to life, so many of us have cracked brains. You can still be loved.

freedomforall
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

Juliet wrote:
Sirocco wrote:Personally I think porn has few uses, one I think is for people who can't for whatever reason, find someone to be with.
I donno, not everyone gets to get married and be with people.
I've never had one, not from lack of trying when I was younger but after awhile, failure has a way of seeping in and you just don't want to bother with it anymore.
i don't want to bother with it anymore. People get more crazy everyday and it gets harder every day.
Besides it can't be that meaningful, I can't get that close to people, my brain is cracked, as it were. So what do I do?
I can understand. I find being around people is hard since so many of us have burdens it is hard to lift each other. One thing is to ask to be delivered from the spirit of failure. You're not an exception to life, so many of us have cracked brains. You can still be loved.
Look at the bright side. A person that knows their brain is cracked is a whole lot better off than for those that have no clue. :D

freedomforall
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

The best way to quit porn is to quit porn.

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skmo
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by skmo »

Look at it like drug addiction. One can use replacement therapy like methadone or Suboxone, but that's just replacing one drug for another. One can have all the classes, training, camps, and programs one wants, but until a person with an addiction wants to get rid of it, they won't. For some, that means falling most or even all the way to the bottom.

In the end, a person has to be willing to do what it takes to quit.

freedomforall
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

skmo wrote:Look at it like drug addiction. One can use replacement therapy like methadone or Suboxone, but that's just replacing one drug for another. One can have all the classes, training, camps, and programs one wants, but until a person with an addiction wants to get rid of it, they won't. For some, that means falling most or even all the way to the bottom.

In the end, a person has to be willing to do what it takes to quit.
Therefore, Christ can do nothing either. He will not accept wooden nickles, only full purpose of heart and real intent.
I've posted a book several times that helps those who truly want to overcome. It is "Putting on the Whole Armor of God, by Steven Cramer. It appears my attempts to help have gone ignored. Says a lot about a person really wanting to quit, or do they?

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

So nobody has any comments from the medical - psychological study I posted?

Okay, let's make this simple, how many of the following people in the US population qualify for being "addicted" to porn?

Men:

Ages 15 - 30
30 - 50
50 - 70
70 +
Women:

Ages 15 - 30
30 - 50
50 - 70
70+

jsk
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by jsk »

Maybe because most people on this board prefer to take the word of modern day prophets over a bunch of psychobabbling atheists. It doesn't matter how many so called experts you trot out or how loud you yell that this problem is overblown, you can't reduce the Gospel to the Scientific Method.

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Melissa
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Melissa »

To say that porn is okay is to deny all the effects it causes. Of course someone who is using it can say it is okay because if he said it wasn't then he would have to change.

freedomforall
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

Fiannan wrote:So nobody has any comments from the medical - psychological study I posted?

Okay, let's make this simple, how many of the following people in the US population qualify for being "addicted" to porn?

Men:

Ages 15 - 30
30 - 50
50 - 70
70 +
Women:

Ages 15 - 30
30 - 50
50 - 70
70+
Let's put all this into perspective. Forget science, polls, therapists, dung hill speeches and trying to justify sin to any degree. Let's stick to the word of God and clean up our act, get rid of the natural man as directed, start thinking like spiritual people..all for the glory of God and His Christ.

Moroni 10:32,33

freedomforall
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

There is also an addiction of having an exploded libido and lustful behaviors. And attempting to justify satisfying these powerful emotions in any other way except in accordance with the bounds set by the Lord, is absolute folly.

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

jsk wrote:Maybe because most people on this board prefer to take the word of modern day prophets over a bunch of psychobabbling atheists. It doesn't matter how many so called experts you trot out or how loud you yell that this problem is overblown, you can't reduce the Gospel to the Scientific Method.
You do not get the point. Is it a sin to have sex with someone on a stage, in front of a camera, for pay? Absolutely. Is it a sin to distribute such entertainment? Yes, even if that person doesn't look at it. Is it a sin to watch this stuff? I certainly believe so.

Now, is it a sin to produce alcoholic beverages for pay? Absolutely. Is it a sin to distribute such a drug? Yes, even if that person does not drink it. Is it a sin to drink it? I certainly believe so.

That said, would we say that a person who drinks alcohol occasionally is addicted to alcohol? No we would not. Is everyone who drinks alcohol going to wind up in the gutter or ruining their family life, or dying from its effects? No. If we presented the idea that anyone who touches alcohol is an addict then we are going to fail in the minds of our audience. So too with porn. We can join the radical feminists and say this is an issue of the exploitation of women, but in doing so we risk allowing a more dangerous virus into our minds than any pornographic image. We can say that porn dehumanizes but that makes no sense as a naked body, or sex itself, is not dehumanizing. We can say that porn is a form of slavery of those involved in it but then again many if not most of the actors and actresses are there because they want to be. We can say that watching porn affects our brain chemistry, but so does watching a chick flick, The Walking Dead, or Star Wars. Saying that it is justifiable for a woman (note, women look at porn too, but in conservative religions we are totally in denial of this) to leave a husband over porn is to endorse a MAJOR sin in order to confront one far less severe.

So overall we need to stick to the idea that porn is a moral issue. One cannot borrow terms from psychology such as "addiction" when it serves their purpose but then retreat from psychology when it does not support the idea of porn being an addiction.

freedomforall
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

Fiannan wrote:So overall we need to stick to the idea that porn is a moral issue. One cannot borrow terms from psychology such as "addiction" when it serves their purpose but then retreat from psychology when it does not support the idea of porn being an addiction.
But who gets turned on by watching and having recurring flashbacks of Chewbacca? Porn is geared to stimulate sexual desire even by having flashbacks weeks later.
Chewbacca.jpg
Chewbacca.jpg (213.44 KiB) Viewed 5717 times

STILL TRYING TO JUSTIFY PORN USE, ARE WE? Porn is bad at every level.

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

STILL TRYING TO JUSTIFY PORN USE, ARE WE? Porn is bad at every level.
Nobody is justifying porn use, but to employ bad science at best will only doom anti-porn messages that are being employed as mere propaganda and cause intelligent males and females to begin to question the validity of the premise that porn is indeed immoral itself.

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Melissa
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Melissa »

Fiannan wrote:
jsk wrote:Maybe because most people on this board prefer to take the word of modern day prophets over a bunch of psychobabbling atheists. It doesn't matter how many so called experts you trot out or how loud you yell that this problem is overblown, you can't reduce the Gospel to the Scientific Method.
You do not get the point. Is it a sin to have sex with someone on a stage, in front of a camera, for pay? Absolutely. Is it a sin to distribute such entertainment? Yes, even if that person doesn't look at it. Is it a sin to watch this stuff? I certainly believe so.

Now, is it a sin to produce alcoholic beverages for pay? Absolutely. Is it a sin to distribute such a drug? Yes, even if that person does not drink it. Is it a sin to drink it? I certainly believe so.

That said, would we say that a person who drinks alcohol occasionally is addicted to alcohol? No we would not. Is everyone who drinks alcohol going to wind up in the gutter or ruining their family life, or dying from its effects? No. If we presented the idea that anyone who touches alcohol is an addict then we are going to fail in the minds of our audience. So too with porn. We can join the radical feminists and say this is an issue of the exploitation of women, but in doing so we risk allowing a more dangerous virus into our minds than any pornographic image. We can say that porn dehumanizes but that makes no sense as a naked body, or sex itself, is not dehumanizing. We can say that porn is a form of slavery of those involved in it but then again many if not most of the actors and actresses are there because they want to be. We can say that watching porn affects our brain chemistry, but so does watching a chick flick, The Walking Dead, or Star Wars. Saying that it is justifiable for a woman (note, women look at porn too, but in conservative religions we are totally in denial of this) to leave a husband over porn is to endorse a MAJOR sin in order to confront one far less severe.

So overall we need to stick to the idea that porn is a moral issue. One cannot borrow terms from psychology such as "addiction" when it serves their purpose but then retreat from psychology when it does not support the idea of porn being an addiction.
Like "psychology" is all correct and true?

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Melissa
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Melissa »

Fiannan wrote:
STILL TRYING TO JUSTIFY PORN USE, ARE WE? Porn is bad at every level.
Nobody is justifying porn use, but to employ bad science at best will only doom anti-porn messages that are being employed as mere propaganda and cause intelligent males and females to begin to question the validity of the premise that porn is indeed immoral itself.

Maybe to the "wise" and "haughty" ones but not to the average joe.

I think most people don't actually question "porn" as a moral issue or not. Most see no issue with porn use and porn availability. Members should always see porn use as a moral sin. But, most people who have been taught porn is morally wrong justify to the extent that they make it possible to use it without be cognitive of the seriousness of it.

Maybe this is why people use the word addiction? Because of the visual effects one sees in someone who uses it? Usually people don't talk about porn appropriately and say I know it's morally wrong and I have sinned...it's usually not that "aware" because sin warps the light and knowledge of truth. People justify the crap out of their sin so they can keep doing what they love without the responsibility or burden of sin. Is isn't that knocking on the door of addiction?

Maybe use your vast brain power to try and understand why a person might use the term "addiction" instead of spending all your time telling everyone how off base they are. Look at the characteristics of addiction and the mentality of it and then understand the smarties in members who use porn.

Also think about the difference porn use is on one who is not a memeber and one who has been baptised, mission, temple, marriage, kids etc. The moral sins will weigh very heavy on a member who has made solemn covenants with God to be clean and pure. The use of porn is more soul destructive and soul binding and dangerous for one who is actively breaking a covenant vs one who never made such a covenant.

ie. The difference between fornication for a person who doesn't have endowments and one who does. BIG difference.

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

Like "psychology" is all correct and true?
People can believe as they wish, but then they should never pretend psychology backs them up.

freedomforall
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

Here is a method of choice for those who want to overcome porn use.

First, be honest with yourself. Say to yourself something like, I really like looking at porn and getting turned on, etc.

Then pose this statement immediately following..........but, I want to go to the Celestial Kingdom even more. This gives our mind a choice, otherwise, the idea of looking at porn has no challenge of resistance.

So now a person has to decide which of the two opposing ideas is the one to be acted upon. If porn wins out all the time then the celestial kingdom is not that important to the person.

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

freedomforall wrote:Here is a method of choice for those who want to overcome porn use.

First, be honest with yourself. Say to yourself something like, I really like looking at porn and getting turned on, etc.

Then pose this statement immediately following..........but, I want to go to the Celestial Kingdom even more. This gives our mind a choice, otherwise, the idea of looking at porn has no challenge of resistance.

So now a person has to decide which of the two opposing ideas is the one to be acted upon. If porn wins out all the time then the celestial kingdom is not that important to the person.
I doubt porn in and of itself will keep someone out of the CK but being caused to divert sexual energies away from seeking a mate, developing spirituality and creating worthwhile endeavors could. And porn does divert that life force, no doubt about it. Also, it is ironic that one would seek the substitutes for family and reproduction on this earth, when they could be sacrificing the opportunity to be with multiple wives in the eternities and have eternal reproduction.

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skmo
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by skmo »

Fiannan wrote:I doubt porn in and of itself will keep someone out of the CK....
You are so very wrong in this.

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