husband trying to recover from porn addiction

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freedomforall
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Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

zionminded wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
freedomforall wrote: When one falls, they get back up and go again. The condition of one's heart says a lot in the long run. Therapy may work for some, but they still lack having the word of God embedded in their brain for a more effective barrier against repeated falls. Merely reading scriptures is not the answer. The answer is in permeating one's mind with various verses, that after time become a shield against Satan's fiery darts.
Putting on the Whole Armor of God reveals how to go about building that much needed shield.
Just what would anybody lose by just reading the book and trying the prescribed method? Not one thing. The author was addicted for over thirty years and knows all about guilt and shame...and success in breaking the cycles and addiction.
The only therapy that works is bringing people to God. However pornography addiction requires professional intervention, not a lay minister who has no experience in mental disorders, addictive patterns of behavior and the physiological factors associated with nearly all comorbid and related conditions. A bishop is a part of the solution, but it is not the solution.
Nor did I say anything referring to a bishop. Extensive therapy is not the solution either. It may greatly help..but the word Of God deeply embedded in one's mind does work.
They say it takes about twenty one days to establish a habit, during that time we ponder, concentrate and mull over what we want until it sticks with us.
Now turn that around by pondering, concentrating and mulling over the word of God all throughout each day for weeks on end, via, 3X5 cards, reading them over and over and over and over again all day long.
Our mind will direct us to either sin or heaven depending on what we have concentrated the most on.
It doesn't hurt to get the book and give it a try, does it? Personal experience says a lot, including how they got away from living in hell every day.
Is this your personal experience, or do you have some understanding of addictive behaviors from a professional view point?
How many so-called professionals say that she-bopping is wrong and not a good practice?

God tells us that he allows not one sin to enter into his kingdom. So if people are going to go by what professionals say they're not on the right path.

We are told to have virtue garnish our thoughts, so is stimulating oneself included in that endeavor?

How many professionals are concerned about personal, God-like virtue?

Fiannan
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Posts: 12983

Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

The only therapy that works is bringing people to God. However pornography addiction requires professional intervention, not a lay minister who has no experience in mental disorders, addictive patterns of behavior and the physiological factors associated with nearly all comorbid and related conditions. A bishop is a part of the solution, but it is not the solution.
Okay, hold on there. First, pornography "addiction" is not recognized as a mental health issue by the psychological or medical professional community. So for you to say that you need "professional intervention" is rather odd. Of course if it interferes with one being a good father, mother or provider that is a problem (i.e. someone accessing porn at work because it is a temptation, but the same would hold true to alcohol or tobacco use, right?). If a woman smokes a cigarette only when she is at a party they is not addicted to cigarettes, if a man has a beer once in a while at an office party he is not an alcoholic. So if a couple access porn once in a while as a naughty pleasure when the kids are at gramma's house are they addicted? Are they in need of professional intervention?

So then the issue becomes one of pornography usage. Is it right or wrong? That is a sectarian issue. And thus if someone is convinced, due to their religion, that porn usage is a sin then a bishop would be the right place to start. If one believes that viewing people having sex is a sin then they should refrain from doing this activity. Speaking with a psychologist or psychologist is not the path to take unless it is such an obsession that it qualifies as a problem.

zionminded
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Posts: 1438

Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by zionminded »

freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
The only therapy that works is bringing people to God. However pornography addiction requires professional intervention, not a lay minister who has no experience in mental disorders, addictive patterns of behavior and the physiological factors associated with nearly all comorbid and related conditions. A bishop is a part of the solution, but it is not the solution.
Nor did I say anything referring to a bishop. Extensive therapy is not the solution either. It may greatly help..but the word Of God deeply embedded in one's mind does work.
They say it takes about twenty one days to establish a habit, during that time we ponder, concentrate and mull over what we want until it sticks with us.
Now turn that around by pondering, concentrating and mulling over the word of God all throughout each day for weeks on end, via, 3X5 cards, reading them over and over and over and over again all day long.
Our mind will direct us to either sin or heaven depending on what we have concentrated the most on.
It doesn't hurt to get the book and give it a try, does it? Personal experience says a lot, including how they got away from living in hell every day.
Is this your personal experience, or do you have some understanding of addictive behaviors from a professional view point?
How many so-called professionals say that she-bopping is wrong and not a good practice?

God tells us that he allows not one sin to enter into his kingdom. So if people are going to go by what professionals say they're not on the right path.

We are told to have virtue garnish our thoughts, so is stimulating oneself included in that endeavor?

How many professionals are concerned about personal, God-like virtue?
I'm sorry, it is hard to convey information via typing, let me be specific: People should seek spiritual guidance from their ecclesiastical leader. People should seek mental health guidance from their therapist or psychiatrist.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

zionminded wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
freedomforall wrote: Nor did I say anything referring to a bishop. Extensive therapy is not the solution either. It may greatly help..but the word Of God deeply embedded in one's mind does work.
They say it takes about twenty one days to establish a habit, during that time we ponder, concentrate and mull over what we want until it sticks with us.
Now turn that around by pondering, concentrating and mulling over the word of God all throughout each day for weeks on end, via, 3X5 cards, reading them over and over and over and over again all day long.
Our mind will direct us to either sin or heaven depending on what we have concentrated the most on.
It doesn't hurt to get the book and give it a try, does it? Personal experience says a lot, including how they got away from living in hell every day.
Is this your personal experience, or do you have some understanding of addictive behaviors from a professional view point?
How many so-called professionals say that she-bopping is wrong and not a good practice?

God tells us that he allows not one sin to enter into his kingdom. So if people are going to go by what professionals say they're not on the right path.

We are told to have virtue garnish our thoughts, so is stimulating oneself included in that endeavor?

How many professionals are concerned about personal, God-like virtue?
I'm sorry, it is hard to convey information via typing, let me be specific: People should seek spiritual guidance from their ecclesiastical leader. People should seek mental health guidance from their therapist or psychiatrist.
Let's not leave out he who has the power to heal a wounded soul.

Jacob 2:8
8 And it supposeth me that they have come up hither to hear the pleasing word of God, yea, the word which healeth the wounded soul.

Alma 31:5
5 And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God.

Hel. 3:29 (29–30)
29 Yea, we see that whosoever will may lay hold upon the word of God, which is quick and powerful, which shall divide asunder all the cunning and the snares and the wiles of the devil, and lead the man of Christ in a strait and narrow course across that everlasting gulf of misery which is prepared to engulf the wicked—
30 And land their souls, yea, their immortal souls, at the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven, to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and with Jacob, and with all our holy fathers, to go no more out.

The word of God embedded in our minds can heal us and direct us in a new direction...with faith and belief.

Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you: D&C 88:63

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1438

Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by zionminded »

freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
Is this your personal experience, or do you have some understanding of addictive behaviors from a professional view point?
How many so-called professionals say that she-bopping is wrong and not a good practice?

God tells us that he allows not one sin to enter into his kingdom. So if people are going to go by what professionals say they're not on the right path.

We are told to have virtue garnish our thoughts, so is stimulating oneself included in that endeavor?

How many professionals are concerned about personal, God-like virtue?
I'm sorry, it is hard to convey information via typing, let me be specific: People should seek spiritual guidance from their ecclesiastical leader. People should seek mental health guidance from their therapist or psychiatrist.
Let's not leave out he who has the power to heal a wounded soul.

Jacob 2:8
8 And it supposeth me that they have come up hither to hear the pleasing word of God, yea, the word which healeth the wounded soul.

Alma 31:5
5 And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God.

Hel. 3:29 (29–30)
29 Yea, we see that whosoever will may lay hold upon the word of God, which is quick and powerful, which shall divide asunder all the cunning and the snares and the wiles of the devil, and lead the man of Christ in a strait and narrow course across that everlasting gulf of misery which is prepared to engulf the wicked—
30 And land their souls, yea, their immortal souls, at the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven, to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and with Jacob, and with all our holy fathers, to go no more out.

The word of God embedded in our minds can heal us and direct us in a new direction...with faith and belief.

Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you: D&C 88:63
We agree on that. I've seen and have said, it is Christ that heals.

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Melissa
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Melissa »

Since there are different views on this and what is needed or not needed. How about people just stop. Educate yourself, so your not a mindless consumer. If your married....look at your wife as a human being entitled to your respect and fidelity and stop being unfaithful. What right do you have to break her heart and betray her in secret?
Stop being so selfish!

Seriously....men think they can just look at whoever, whenever like they are entitled. Where do you stop and draw a moral line? Your sister? Mother in law? Daughter? Grandaughter? If you can have a moral line there, then it proves you have just relaxed your moral ground and can get it back to being true to your wife.

The men of the priesthood are the leaders of this world....satan wants to make you utterly powerless and useless while he then attacks your wife and children. I think this right here is why women have a real hard time. He leaves his family open and vulnerable andncan even be the source of their afflictions. How is this protecting?? Women want afaithful and honorable man that she can respect and trust. Porn ruins every single bit of it! its a complete betrayal and its like throwing your wife up against the wall.

So....educate yourself. And decide for yourself what kind of man you want to be and want your sons to be...and do it.

Men want respect more than anything...using porn is not respectable. And men wonder why they are not respected like they want and belittled and whatever else.

This was a specific post not intended to capture the entire scope of everything including womens use of it etc.

Its just that good women are really getting sick and tired of the porn use, the porn talks, the porn everything. Were sick of it and getting burnt out by it. Its a complete disrespect to us. So just stop...the priesthood has no business looking at nude women other than their wives.

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Melissa
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Melissa »

And if you think that is harsh....would men throw such a focus on treating and catering to a wife who spent too much money? Numerous conference talks and articles? A whole program and such just for it.
So when your a man you sit there feeling like a victim or something that the plague of wives with spending addictions is spreading to nearly every wife and is talked about so much... and all you want to say is that "my wife doesnt do that"?

Or would you see her bahavior as stupid and selfish and tell her to stop and cut up her credit cards?

Kitkat
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Kitkat »

Great website that is worth a look.

http://www.fightthenewdrug.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

Problems with pornography:

May act as substitute for getting into a stable relationship. It is a distraction from the ideal of forming families and making a bunch of children to further the building of the kingdom.

Encourages experimentation with alternative lifestyle sexual practices, especially in female viewers.

Makes sex into a monetized commodity. I suppose it is the apex of capitalistic amorality to make viewing people have sex a consumer product.

Probable myths about pornography:

Encourages rape. No evidence. In fact, just the opposite MAY be true. So what areas of the world have the most problems with rape? And why is that?

Causes alterations in the brain. So does eating chocolate.

Ruins existing families. I would venture to say 99% of porn watchers (male and female) lead normal lives.

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AI2.0
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by AI2.0 »

Fiannan wrote:Problems with pornography:

May act as substitute for getting into a stable relationship. It is a distraction from the ideal of forming families and making a bunch of children to further the building of the kingdom.

Encourages experimentation with alternative lifestyle sexual practices, especially in female viewers.

Makes sex into a monetized commodity. I suppose it is the apex of capitalistic amorality to make viewing people have sex a consumer product.

Probable myths about pornography:

Encourages rape. No evidence. In fact, just the opposite MAY be true. So what areas of the world have the most problems with rape? And why is that?

Causes alterations in the brain. So does eating chocolate.

Ruins existing families. I would venture to say 99% of porn watchers (male and female) lead normal lives.

Why do you minimize the dangers of pornography when our church leaders clearly warn of it's use?

You know that the church speaks out against it. You know that it drives the spirit away. The Lord Jesus Christ warned against this: D&C 63:16 "And verily I say unto you, as I have said before, he that looketh on a woman to lust after her, or if any shall commit adultery in their hearts, they shall not have the spirit, but shall deny the faith and shall fear."

Shouldn't THAT be enough to make any person admit it should not be viewed? A warning from our Savior himself?

Pornography is a problem. Many families are being damaged by it, good Priesthood holders are being damaged by it, their relationships with their wives and children are being damaged by it. It's a pernicious evil which our church leaders have warned us about many times and yet, you seem to take opportunities to minimize it. I simply don't understand why you would want to do that.

And any others on this thread who do the same. You want to ignore our leaders' warnings fine, but if you claim to love the Lord and care about serving him, I do not know why anyone would ignore his warnings against it, justifying it because the 'world' says it's fine and not a problem.

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Sarah
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Sarah »

What is that scripture? To be carnally minded is death...spiritually minded life eternal? Even husband and wife can be carnally minded. Porn stimulates arousal from a purely carnal standpoint. Sexual intimacy between husband and wife can be spiritual in nature if true-love, charity, compassion and friendship are the things that stimulate arousal.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by BruceRGilbert »

The likelihood of the Holy Spirit of Promise sealing a couple as eternal companions as a manifestation of the "after glow" is very high. Those who "petition" to the carnal appetites and passions employing an oral approach are not likely to attain such. The notion of an "after glow" that unites spiritually is neigh unto being lost in today's "cravings" for instant gratification.

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

AI2.0 wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Problems with pornography:

May act as substitute for getting into a stable relationship. It is a distraction from the ideal of forming families and making a bunch of children to further the building of the kingdom.

Encourages experimentation with alternative lifestyle sexual practices, especially in female viewers.

Makes sex into a monetized commodity. I suppose it is the apex of capitalistic amorality to make viewing people have sex a consumer product.

Probable myths about pornography:

Encourages rape. No evidence. In fact, just the opposite MAY be true. So what areas of the world have the most problems with rape? And why is that?

Causes alterations in the brain. So does eating chocolate.

Ruins existing families. I would venture to say 99% of porn watchers (male and female) lead normal lives.

Why do you minimize the dangers of pornography when our church leaders clearly warn of it's use?

You know that the church speaks out against it. You know that it drives the spirit away. The Lord Jesus Christ warned against this: D&C 63:16 "And verily I say unto you, as I have said before, he that looketh on a woman to lust after her, or if any shall commit adultery in their hearts, they shall not have the spirit, but shall deny the faith and shall fear."

Shouldn't THAT be enough to make any person admit it should not be viewed? A warning from our Savior himself?

Pornography is a problem. Many families are being damaged by it, good Priesthood holders are being damaged by it, their relationships with their wives and children are being damaged by it. It's a pernicious evil which our church leaders have warned us about many times and yet, you seem to take opportunities to minimize it. I simply don't understand why you would want to do that.

And any others on this thread who do the same. You want to ignore our leaders' warnings fine, but if you claim to love the Lord and care about serving him, I do not know why anyone would ignore his warnings against it, justifying it because the 'world' says it's fine and not a problem.
I do not minimize the dangers. However, what message does it give to people, especially young men and women, when you overblow the dangers of any sinful action when they know it is not true? Have you ever heard of the movie "Reefer Madness?" Check out just the first minute. Here it is:
I do not use marijuana, and I never have. Have I known people who have used it? Absolutely. Have I been offered it? More times than I can count. Would I encourage people to use it on a casual basis? No I would not. Does it have harmful effects on people who use it only occasionally? No. Does it have harmful effects on people who use it every day several times a day? On many people it can be demonstrated to do so. So here it is, since Nixon criminalized drugs, Reagan went ballistic on all drugs and the Clintons got scared of black people and...well, you get the picture. Legislators given a punitive piece of legislation were scared to oppose it, even though many of them used drugs themselves (if you have been involved in political functions you know that one of the things politicians get into besides alcohol is drugs) so the nation went into a form of hysteria over even marijuana. This created a backlash as many, many people use marijuana on a casual basis. Now we have both conservatives calling for legalization of marijuana and any discussion of the dangers of marijuana is met with skepticism from people of all ages.

I prefer to stick to the facts and not hysteria. I tell my children the harms of pornography but I will not lie to them. That message is likely to give them a better ability to internalize a dislike of porn than claiming something and them finding out it is akin to the reefer message.

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AI2.0
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by AI2.0 »

Strawman, Fiannan. Why do you bring up marijuana? We aren't discussing that.

If you are suggesting that we are getting hysterical over pornography as the film makers of 'reefer madness' were unduly concerned with marijuana, I refer you once again to the Lord's own warning. He said to stay away from it, don't view it. It causes one to lose the spirit and to 'fear'. Our Prophets have spoken out extensively on the evils of Pornography, are you going to dismiss their fears as hysteria? You can if you want, but you'll be contradicting our church leaders and the Lord.

If you are a devout LDS believer, you can't ignore the counsel we've been given to not view pornography. Avoid it. And if a person starts viewing it, they need to stop or they will suffer the consequences to their spirit/loved ones, etc. and will eventually need to repent and remove it from their life.

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

AI2.0 wrote:Strawman, Fiannan. Why do you bring up marijuana? We aren't discussing that.

If you are suggesting that we are getting hysterical over pornography as the film makers of 'reefer madness' were unduly concerned with marijuana, I refer you once again to the Lord's own warning. He said to stay away from it, don't view it. It causes one to lose the spirit and to 'fear'. Our Prophets have spoken out extensively on the evils of Pornography, are you going to dismiss their fears as hysteria? You can if you want, but you'll be contradicting our church leaders and the Lord.

If you are a devout LDS believer, you can't ignore the counsel we've been given to not view pornography. Avoid it. And if a person starts viewing it, they need to stop or they will suffer the consequences to their spirit/loved ones, etc. and will eventually need to repent and remove it from their life.
I have constantly said I oppose pornography. However, if I claim that looking at it will make you go blind and cause you to morph into Bruce Jenner I may scare someone until they realize I am giving them falsehoods. I can list even more reasons than I have for being against the porn industry but I can list a bunch more falsehoods I have heard that have been used against it. When you go into a debate you will look unprepared and unintelligent if you have false data and assumptions and when you try to get people to avoid a sinful practice the same it true.

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AI2.0
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by AI2.0 »

Fiannan wrote:
AI2.0 wrote:Strawman, Fiannan. Why do you bring up marijuana? We aren't discussing that.

If you are suggesting that we are getting hysterical over pornography as the film makers of 'reefer madness' were unduly concerned with marijuana, I refer you once again to the Lord's own warning. He said to stay away from it, don't view it. It causes one to lose the spirit and to 'fear'. Our Prophets have spoken out extensively on the evils of Pornography, are you going to dismiss their fears as hysteria? You can if you want, but you'll be contradicting our church leaders and the Lord.

If you are a devout LDS believer, you can't ignore the counsel we've been given to not view pornography. Avoid it. And if a person starts viewing it, they need to stop or they will suffer the consequences to their spirit/loved ones, etc. and will eventually need to repent and remove it from their life.
I have constantly said I oppose pornography. However, if I claim that looking at it will make you go blind and cause you to morph into Bruce Jenner I may scare someone until they realize I am giving them falsehoods. I can list even more reasons than I have for being against the porn industry but I can list a bunch more falsehoods I have heard that have been used against it. When you go into a debate you will look unprepared and unintelligent if you have false data and assumptions and when you try to get people to avoid a sinful practice the same it true.
Your 'opposing' pornography is not obvious from the way you discuss it on this site, sorry. Maybe you could work on being a little more forceful in your opposition.

I really don't care about all the reasons why you think it's being maligned, it doesn't matter to me. What matters is that the Lord and his servants, the Prophets, have said 'Don't View IT'. That should be good enough for any Latter-day Saint who's trying to follow the Savior and the gospel. There should be no excusing this practice because someone has a reason for doing it--it is still wrong. Men who struggle with it need to get help to stop, they should not indulge themselves because their reasons for viewing it are valid--it is still wrong. Their loved ones should do their best, with the help of prayer and patience, to support them as they struggle to overcome this, but they should not be made to feel they need to accept this behavior.

freedomforall
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

AI2.0 wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
AI2.0 wrote:Strawman, Fiannan. Why do you bring up marijuana? We aren't discussing that.

If you are suggesting that we are getting hysterical over pornography as the film makers of 'reefer madness' were unduly concerned with marijuana, I refer you once again to the Lord's own warning. He said to stay away from it, don't view it. It causes one to lose the spirit and to 'fear'. Our Prophets have spoken out extensively on the evils of Pornography, are you going to dismiss their fears as hysteria? You can if you want, but you'll be contradicting our church leaders and the Lord.

If you are a devout LDS believer, you can't ignore the counsel we've been given to not view pornography. Avoid it. And if a person starts viewing it, they need to stop or they will suffer the consequences to their spirit/loved ones, etc. and will eventually need to repent and remove it from their life.
I have constantly said I oppose pornography. However, if I claim that looking at it will make you go blind and cause you to morph into Bruce Jenner I may scare someone until they realize I am giving them falsehoods. I can list even more reasons than I have for being against the porn industry but I can list a bunch more falsehoods I have heard that have been used against it. When you go into a debate you will look unprepared and unintelligent if you have false data and assumptions and when you try to get people to avoid a sinful practice the same it true.
Your 'opposing' pornography is not obvious from the way you discuss it on this site, sorry. Maybe you could work on being a little more forceful in your opposition.

I really don't care about all the reasons why you think it's being maligned, it doesn't matter to me. What matters is that the Lord and his servants, the Prophets, have said 'Don't View IT'. That should be good enough for any Latter-day Saint who's trying to follow the Savior and the gospel. There should be no excusing this practice because someone has a reason for doing it--it is still wrong. Men who struggle with it need to get help to stop, they should not indulge themselves because their reasons for viewing it are valid--it is still wrong. Their loved ones should do their best, with the help of prayer and patience, to support them as they struggle to overcome this, but they should not be made to feel they need to accept this behavior.
Isn't the justifications made, excuses offered for doing wrong...is just as well condoning it?
Christ says those who are not for me are against me. These are strong words. We should adopt this emphatic way of expression when declaring something is wrong in the sight of the Lord.

Corinthians 6:9,10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate (catamite...a boy who submits to a sexual relationship with a man), nor abusers (homosexuals) of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Colossians 3:5
5 ...fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence (evil sexual desires like pornography), and covetousness, which is idolatry:

And this. A woman does not have to be directly in front of a man or near for him to lust. She can also be in pictures, on paper and in movies to be lusted after. To look upon a woman means just that.

Doctrine and Covenants 42:23
23 And he that looketh upon a woman to lust after her shall deny the faith, and shall not have the Spirit; and if he repents not he shall be cast out.

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

Your 'opposing' pornography is not obvious from the way you discuss it on this site, sorry. Maybe you could work on being a little more forceful in your opposition.
So throwing out nonsense science is going to make the case against viewing pornography? I have given rational reasons why porn is a bad thing, but I refuse to make unsubstantiated claims -- that is akin to "lying for the Lord" to promote a positive message. Eventually it will be exposed and undermine any credibility of the message. If one claims that a guy who looks at porn maybe once in a month is going to eventually leave his wife, start using heroin and wind up in a homeless shelter how does that advance ones cause when 90% of the listeners will see that it doesn't work that way? How does saying that a housewife who looks up some porn after a hard day with the kids so she can get into the mood before a date night with her husband will eventually become so consumed with porn consumption that she will neglect her children and eventually run off with the underage boyfriend of her oldest daughter and turn to stripping to support them on the road? Sure, out of 330 million people you may find one case of each of these scenario that has occurred since 1970 but it is hardly anything that demonstrates it is a common result of viewing porn.

freedomforall
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

Let's knock off the baloney, shall we? Porn viewed even one time leaves an impression in the brain that can remain several days. This is what causes people to go back for more unless they're wise enough not to repeat it. Then the continued pictures in the brain can cause a habit to form until it turns into an addiction. This is what is called the carnal mind, satisfying sexual appetites until the habit controls the person and not the person controlling the new carnal appetite.
I don't care what porn can be compared to as justification purposes, porn is appealing and addictive, damages one's self control, brain and causes pain, anguish, shame and self loathing in one's life. Believe it! Justifying it is only a good way to end up in hell.

The Lord allows not one sin to dwell with him in the CK. Think about that carefully.

Here are some things about pornography that will enlighten those seeking to follow the Savior.

pornography

Fiannan
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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

I don't care what porn can be compared to as justification purposes, porn is appealing and addictive, damages one's self control, brain and causes pain, anguish, shame and self loathing in one's life. Believe it! Justifying it is only a good way to end up in hell.
And there is the weakness of your position. If one uncritically believes anything that confirms their bias, and passes that on as fact, is destined to be dismissed by the intended audience if they find any weakness, any inaccuracy, in what is being presented. Now I will say it again, at the risk of being called a heretic (which means one who thinks and examines for themselves) I am against porn, but I refuse to fall into the trap of presenting bad science or bad psychology to strengthen my case -- to do so would be akin to fixing a leak in a dam by plugging it with material that is water-soluble; stops the leak temporarily but only temporarily.

First, addiction is different than habit. Marijuana is not physically addictive but can be habit forming while caffeine is both physically addictive and habit forming. So one can become addicted to caffeine but not to marijuana. One can also not be addicted to porn, but can be in the habit of looking at it. And even if a small percentage of people were addicted in some way to porn it certainly must not send anyone into a physiological state of withdrawal. Look at US servicemen stationed in Muslim nations in which they were not allowed to look at porn at the risk of offending nations like the Saudi regime. Most probably were into looking at porn before deployment. Any news or studies of these soldiers going into compromised states of mind due to not having access? Can't think of any.

As for shame and guilt, that will only occur in people who first feel those emotional states and second those who have been told over and over again that looking at the stuff is shameful and that guilt must exist afterwards.

I was active in this battle long before the LDS Church decided that it was important. Yeah, anyone ever work to keep dirty bookstores out of their community in the 1980s? I did and I got no, repeat no, support or volunteers from any ward in my city. I spoke to an LDS man who, in his community, had run into the same problem -- nobody in the LDS faith would do any volunteer work to fight it. Why was that you suppose?

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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by iWriteStuff »

Fiannan wrote: And even if a small percentage of people were addicted in some way to porn it certainly must not send anyone into a physiological state of withdrawal.
Wow, whodathunk this thread would turn into such a fight zone!

Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn? The way you describe an absence of physiological withdrawals makes me think that if you do know any, you don't know them well.

Here are some symptoms of withdrawal:
Emotional Withdrawal Symptoms

Anxiety
Restlessness
Irritability
Insomnia
Headaches
Poor concentration
Depression
Social isolation
Source: http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/withdrawal.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you talked to one long enough, you'd know most of them can check off every single one of those symptoms without hesitation. In fact, many are prescribed medication to handle the anxiety and depression it causes. Irritability usually follows a relapse, as the brain's chemical stability is re-established. The effects of the dopamine flood during a relapse requires time to normalize. During that space of time, irritability and restlessness are very common.

As per studies on soldiers who are denied porn while on duty in Muslim countries.... ever met an irritable soldier? ;)

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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn?
None.

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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by iWriteStuff »

Fiannan wrote:
Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn?
None.
Must be either A) something that affects my age group more or B) you don't think there are people who struggle with it?

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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by Fiannan »

iWriteStuff wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn?
None.
Must be either A) something that affects my age group more or B) you don't think there are people who struggle with it?
Most people I know are not LDS so that may skew my "sample."

Some of these men and women have a beer occasionally and most of them look at porn occasionally. They are trustworthy, nice people who have jobs, families and happy (at least what I can see). None of them are addicted to alcohol or porn.

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Re: husband trying to recover from porn addiction

Post by freedomforall »

Fiannan wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn?
None.
Must be either A) something that affects my age group more or B) you don't think there are people who struggle with it?
Most people I know are not LDS so that may skew my "sample."

Some of these men and women have a beer occasionally and most of them look at porn occasionally. They are trustworthy, nice people who have jobs, families and happy (at least what I can see). None of them are addicted to alcohol or porn.
From statements and justifications in your threads I'm leaning toward the notion that facts wouldn't make much difference. Neither would personal experience from people having had the problem. There is a vast difference between spewing out opinion and justification for sin and then attempting to get people to believe opinion or calling it truth than reading and finding out what other people have gone through to get out of that evil downslope to hell.
I asked people to read Putting on the whole armor of God, written by a man addicted to porn for over thirty years. He neared the point of suicide thinking there was no other way out. Now you have to ask yourself what was he feeling to want to commit suicide. You want facts about what goes on in a person's mind, his soul? read the book merely out of curiosity and learn.
I feel that people with overcharged libidos have a lot to learn.

Another thing people that take these things lightly seem to ignore scripture.

Natural Man
A person who chooses to be influenced by the passions, desires, appetites, and senses of the flesh rather than by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Such a person can comprehend physical things but not spiritual things. All people are carnal, or mortal, because of the fall of Adam and Eve. Each person must be born again through the atonement of Jesus Christ to cease being a natural man.

The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit:1 Cor. 2:14;
The natural man is an enemy to God and should be put off:Mosiah 3:19;
He that persists in his own carnal nature remaineth in his fallen state:Mosiah 16:5; ( Alma 42:7–24; D&C 20:20; )
What natural man is there that knoweth these things?:Alma 26:19–22;
Natural or carnal men are without God in the world:Alma 41:11;
Because of his transgression, man became spiritually dead:D&C 29:41;
Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God:D&C 67:12;
And man began to be carnal, sensual, and devilish:Moses 5:13; ( Moses 6:49; )

Viewing porn any time is following after the natural man. This FACT cannot be dismissed.

You want more facts?

2 Nephi 28:8,9
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.
9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.

Now where does occasional pornography fit into righteous endeavors, or even the justification for it?

And how do occasional porn viewers get around this?

1 Nephi 16:2
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.

One has to ask themselves what it means to be cut to the very center. It must involve some horrific emotions of guilt, shame, anguish and anger for getting caught, right?

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