husband trying to recover from porn addiction

[AI2.0]

Strawman, Fiannan. Why do you bring up marijuana? We aren't discussing that.

If you are suggesting that we are getting hysterical over pornography as the film makers of 'reefer madness' were unduly concerned with marijuana, I refer you once again to the Lord's own warning. He said to stay away from it, don't view it. It causes one to lose the spirit and to 'fear'. Our Prophets have spoken out extensively on the evils of Pornography, are you going to dismiss their fears as hysteria? You can if you want, but you'll be contradicting our church leaders and the Lord.

If you are a devout LDS believer, you can't ignore the counsel we've been given to not view pornography. Avoid it. And if a person starts viewing it, they need to stop or they will suffer the consequences to their spirit/loved ones, etc. and will eventually need to repent and remove it from their life.

I have constantly said I oppose pornography. However, if I claim that looking at it will make you go blind and cause you to morph into Bruce Jenner I may scare someone until they realize I am giving them falsehoods. I can list even more reasons than I have for being against the porn industry but I can list a bunch more falsehoods I have heard that have been used against it. When you go into a debate you will look unprepared and unintelligent if you have false data and assumptions and when you try to get people to avoid a sinful practice the same it true.

Your 'opposing' pornography is not obvious from the way you discuss it on this site, sorry. Maybe you could work on being a little more forceful in your opposition.

I really don't care about all the reasons why you think it's being maligned, it doesn't matter to me. What matters is that the Lord and his servants, the Prophets, have said 'Don't View IT'. That should be good enough for any Latter-day Saint who's trying to follow the Savior and the gospel. There should be no excusing this practice because someone has a reason for doing it--it is still wrong. Men who struggle with it need to get help to stop, they should not indulge themselves because their reasons for viewing it are valid--it is still wrong. Their loved ones should do their best, with the help of prayer and patience, to support them as they struggle to overcome this, but they should not be made to feel they need to accept this behavior.

[freedomforall]

Strawman, Fiannan. Why do you bring up marijuana? We aren't discussing that.

If you are suggesting that we are getting hysterical over pornography as the film makers of 'reefer madness' were unduly concerned with marijuana, I refer you once again to the Lord's own warning. He said to stay away from it, don't view it. It causes one to lose the spirit and to 'fear'. Our Prophets have spoken out extensively on the evils of Pornography, are you going to dismiss their fears as hysteria? You can if you want, but you'll be contradicting our church leaders and the Lord.

If you are a devout LDS believer, you can't ignore the counsel we've been given to not view pornography. Avoid it. And if a person starts viewing it, they need to stop or they will suffer the consequences to their spirit/loved ones, etc. and will eventually need to repent and remove it from their life.

I have constantly said I oppose pornography. However, if I claim that looking at it will make you go blind and cause you to morph into Bruce Jenner I may scare someone until they realize I am giving them falsehoods. I can list even more reasons than I have for being against the porn industry but I can list a bunch more falsehoods I have heard that have been used against it. When you go into a debate you will look unprepared and unintelligent if you have false data and assumptions and when you try to get people to avoid a sinful practice the same it true.

Your 'opposing' pornography is not obvious from the way you discuss it on this site, sorry. Maybe you could work on being a little more forceful in your opposition.

I really don't care about all the reasons why you think it's being maligned, it doesn't matter to me. What matters is that the Lord and his servants, the Prophets, have said 'Don't View IT'. That should be good enough for any Latter-day Saint who's trying to follow the Savior and the gospel. There should be no excusing this practice because someone has a reason for doing it--it is still wrong. Men who struggle with it need to get help to stop, they should not indulge themselves because their reasons for viewing it are valid--it is still wrong. Their loved ones should do their best, with the help of prayer and patience, to support them as they struggle to overcome this, but they should not be made to feel they need to accept this behavior.

Isn't the justifications made, excuses offered for doing wrong...is just as well condoning it?
Christ says those who are not for me are against me. These are strong words. We should adopt this emphatic way of expression when declaring something is wrong in the sight of the Lord.

Corinthians 6:9,10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate (catamite...a boy who submits to a sexual relationship with a man), nor abusers (homosexuals) of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Colossians 3:5
5 ...fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence (evil sexual desires like pornography), and covetousness, which is idolatry:

And this. A woman does not have to be directly in front of a man or near for him to lust. She can also be in pictures, on paper and in movies to be lusted after. To look upon a woman means just that.

Doctrine and Covenants 42:23
23 And he that looketh upon a woman to lust after her shall deny the faith, and shall not have the Spirit; and if he repents not he shall be cast out.

[Fiannan]

Your 'opposing' pornography is not obvious from the way you discuss it on this site, sorry. Maybe you could work on being a little more forceful in your opposition.

So throwing out nonsense science is going to make the case against viewing pornography? I have given rational reasons why porn is a bad thing, but I refuse to make unsubstantiated claims -- that is akin to "lying for the Lord" to promote a positive message. Eventually it will be exposed and undermine any credibility of the message. If one claims that a guy who looks at porn maybe once in a month is going to eventually leave his wife, start using heroin and wind up in a homeless shelter how does that advance ones cause when 90% of the listeners will see that it doesn't work that way? How does saying that a housewife who looks up some porn after a hard day with the kids so she can get into the mood before a date night with her husband will eventually become so consumed with porn consumption that she will neglect her children and eventually run off with the underage boyfriend of her oldest daughter and turn to stripping to support them on the road? Sure, out of 330 million people you may find one case of each of these scenario that has occurred since 1970 but it is hardly anything that demonstrates it is a common result of viewing porn.

[freedomforall]

Let's knock off the baloney, shall we? Porn viewed even one time leaves an impression in the brain that can remain several days. This is what causes people to go back for more unless they're wise enough not to repeat it. Then the continued pictures in the brain can cause a habit to form until it turns into an addiction. This is what is called the carnal mind, satisfying sexual appetites until the habit controls the person and not the person controlling the new carnal appetite.
I don't care what porn can be compared to as justification purposes, porn is appealing and addictive, damages one's self control, brain and causes pain, anguish, shame and self loathing in one's life. Believe it! Justifying it is only a good way to end up in hell.

The Lord allows not one sin to dwell with him in the CK. Think about that carefully.

Here are some things about pornography that will enlighten those seeking to follow the Savior.

pornography

[Fiannan]

I don't care what porn can be compared to as justification purposes, porn is appealing and addictive, damages one's self control, brain and causes pain, anguish, shame and self loathing in one's life. Believe it! Justifying it is only a good way to end up in hell.

And there is the weakness of your position. If one uncritically believes anything that confirms their bias, and passes that on as fact, is destined to be dismissed by the intended audience if they find any weakness, any inaccuracy, in what is being presented. Now I will say it again, at the risk of being called a heretic (which means one who thinks and examines for themselves) I am against porn, but I refuse to fall into the trap of presenting bad science or bad psychology to strengthen my case -- to do so would be akin to fixing a leak in a dam by plugging it with material that is water-soluble; stops the leak temporarily but only temporarily.

First, addiction is different than habit. Marijuana is not physically addictive but can be habit forming while caffeine is both physically addictive and habit forming. So one can become addicted to caffeine but not to marijuana. One can also not be addicted to porn, but can be in the habit of looking at it. And even if a small percentage of people were addicted in some way to porn it certainly must not send anyone into a physiological state of withdrawal. Look at US servicemen stationed in Muslim nations in which they were not allowed to look at porn at the risk of offending nations like the Saudi regime. Most probably were into looking at porn before deployment. Any news or studies of these soldiers going into compromised states of mind due to not having access? Can't think of any.

As for shame and guilt, that will only occur in people who first feel those emotional states and second those who have been told over and over again that looking at the stuff is shameful and that guilt must exist afterwards.

I was active in this battle long before the LDS Church decided that it was important. Yeah, anyone ever work to keep dirty bookstores out of their community in the 1980s? I did and I got no, repeat no, support or volunteers from any ward in my city. I spoke to an LDS man who, in his community, had run into the same problem -- nobody in the LDS faith would do any volunteer work to fight it. Why was that you suppose?

[iWriteStuff]

And even if a small percentage of people were addicted in some way to porn it certainly must not send anyone into a physiological state of withdrawal.

Wow, whodathunk this thread would turn into such a fight zone!

Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn? The way you describe an absence of physiological withdrawals makes me think that if you do know any, you don't know them well.

Here are some symptoms of withdrawal:

Emotional Withdrawal Symptoms

Anxiety
Restlessness
Irritability
Insomnia
Headaches
Poor concentration
Depression
Social isolation

Source: http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/withdrawal.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you talked to one long enough, you'd know most of them can check off every single one of those symptoms without hesitation. In fact, many are prescribed medication to handle the anxiety and depression it causes. Irritability usually follows a relapse, as the brain's chemical stability is re-established. The effects of the dopamine flood during a relapse requires time to normalize. During that space of time, irritability and restlessness are very common.

As per studies on soldiers who are denied porn while on duty in Muslim countries.... ever met an irritable soldier? ;)

[Fiannan]

Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn?

None.

[iWriteStuff]

Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn?

None.

Must be either A) something that affects my age group more or B) you don't think there are people who struggle with it?

[Fiannan]

Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn?

None.

Must be either A) something that affects my age group more or B) you don't think there are people who struggle with it?

Most people I know are not LDS so that may skew my "sample."

Some of these men and women have a beer occasionally and most of them look at porn occasionally. They are trustworthy, nice people who have jobs, families and happy (at least what I can see). None of them are addicted to alcohol or porn.

[freedomforall]

Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn?

None.

Must be either A) something that affects my age group more or B) you don't think there are people who struggle with it?

Most people I know are not LDS so that may skew my "sample."

Some of these men and women have a beer occasionally and most of them look at porn occasionally. They are trustworthy, nice people who have jobs, families and happy (at least what I can see). None of them are addicted to alcohol or porn.

From statements and justifications in your threads I'm leaning toward the notion that facts wouldn't make much difference. Neither would personal experience from people having had the problem. There is a vast difference between spewing out opinion and justification for sin and then attempting to get people to believe opinion or calling it truth than reading and finding out what other people have gone through to get out of that evil downslope to hell.
I asked people to read Putting on the whole armor of God, written by a man addicted to porn for over thirty years. He neared the point of suicide thinking there was no other way out. Now you have to ask yourself what was he feeling to want to commit suicide. You want facts about what goes on in a person's mind, his soul? read the book merely out of curiosity and learn.
I feel that people with overcharged libidos have a lot to learn.

Another thing people that take these things lightly seem to ignore scripture.

Natural Man
A person who chooses to be influenced by the passions, desires, appetites, and senses of the flesh rather than by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Such a person can comprehend physical things but not spiritual things. All people are carnal, or mortal, because of the fall of Adam and Eve. Each person must be born again through the atonement of Jesus Christ to cease being a natural man.

The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit:1 Cor. 2:14;
The natural man is an enemy to God and should be put off:Mosiah 3:19;
He that persists in his own carnal nature remaineth in his fallen state:Mosiah 16:5; ( Alma 42:7–24; D&C 20:20; )
What natural man is there that knoweth these things?:Alma 26:19–22;
Natural or carnal men are without God in the world:Alma 41:11;
Because of his transgression, man became spiritually dead:D&C 29:41;
Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God:D&C 67:12;
And man began to be carnal, sensual, and devilish:Moses 5:13; ( Moses 6:49; )

Viewing porn any time is following after the natural man. This FACT cannot be dismissed.

You want more facts?

2 Nephi 28:8,9
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.
9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.

Now where does occasional pornography fit into righteous endeavors, or even the justification for it?

And how do occasional porn viewers get around this?

1 Nephi 16:2
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.

One has to ask themselves what it means to be cut to the very center. It must involve some horrific emotions of guilt, shame, anguish and anger for getting caught, right?

[freedomforall]

And even if a small percentage of people were addicted in some way to porn it certainly must not send anyone into a physiological state of withdrawal.

Wow, whodathunk this thread would turn into such a fight zone!

Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn? The way you describe an absence of physiological withdrawals makes me think that if you do know any, you don't know them well.

Here are some symptoms of withdrawal:

Emotional Withdrawal Symptoms

Anxiety
Restlessness
Irritability
Insomnia
Headaches
Poor concentration
Depression
Social isolation

Source: http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/withdrawal.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you talked to one long enough, you'd know most of them can check off every single one of those symptoms without hesitation. In fact, many are prescribed medication to handle the anxiety and depression it causes. Irritability usually follows a relapse, as the brain's chemical stability is re-established. The effects of the dopamine flood during a relapse requires time to normalize. During that space of time, irritability and restlessness are very common.

As per studies on soldiers who are denied porn while on duty in Muslim countries.... ever met an irritable soldier? ;)

Just who is Whodathunk? Was he in Star Wars.

[iWriteStuff]

And even if a small percentage of people were addicted in some way to porn it certainly must not send anyone into a physiological state of withdrawal.

Wow, whodathunk this thread would turn into such a fight zone!

Just out of curiosity, Fiannan, how many people do you know who struggle with porn? The way you describe an absence of physiological withdrawals makes me think that if you do know any, you don't know them well.

Here are some symptoms of withdrawal:

Emotional Withdrawal Symptoms

Anxiety
Restlessness
Irritability
Insomnia
Headaches
Poor concentration
Depression
Social isolation

Source: http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/withdrawal.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you talked to one long enough, you'd know most of them can check off every single one of those symptoms without hesitation. In fact, many are prescribed medication to handle the anxiety and depression it causes. Irritability usually follows a relapse, as the brain's chemical stability is re-established. The effects of the dopamine flood during a relapse requires time to normalize. During that space of time, irritability and restlessness are very common.

As per studies on soldiers who are denied porn while on duty in Muslim countries.... ever met an irritable soldier? ;)

Just who is Whodathunk? Was he in Star Wars.

Yeah he was the lucky guy who got to do this:

punchajarjar.jpg (8.39 KiB) Viewed 7021 times

[simpleton]

We are judged by the intents of our hearts.... so says the good book....so very simply ....what are the intents and desires of our hearts to look at porn of any shape or form?....be honest

[Fiannan]

I am still curious as to why the Church is a relative newcomer to the aspect of political activism and porn. Why is it that when I was fighting against porn in the 1980s I was the only LDS person in my community doing so. Why was it that when I spoke to a man from a larger community who had spearheaded efforts to counter porn in his city that it was only he and maybe one other person (now that I recall) who were LDS doing so?

What changed?

True, porn was not in the nice neighborhoods, for the most part, in those days - it was confined to working class communities. So maybe people in comfortable middle class areas were not really that worried about it. It was out of sight unless you were a businessman, televangelist or Republican politician who might drive to the other side of town, or visit during a convention. That does remind me of something funny. I was in a city that was hosting a Republican National Convention in those days. Funny that when I was in an establishment that had an adult magazine area that it was crowded with guys in business attire and a couple of women in nice professional outfits. When you are away from home...

Okay, I get it, now porn is accessible to everyone who has a computer. So you can be living in East LA, Bakersfield or Orem and access the same stuff everyone else can. So yes, it is a temptation to people everywhere. Yet porn in the 1980s was pretty much the same thing as today, except it was more in print and VHS. Correction: in those days it was only marketed to males but now you have feminist porn, sex-positive porn...and several other genres of porn that are really popular with female audiences. Didn't want to encourage people to borrow from gender feminists and make this look like a male-only issue as 30% of porn accessed is by women, and when you look at the under-30s females and males are almost equal in frequency of porn searches.

Just some thoughts. If anyone has an answer as to why something that was rarely talked about in the 1980s is now on the top of many LDS people's agenda please share.

[freedomforall]

I am still curious as to why the Church is a relative newcomer to the aspect of political activism and porn. Why is it that when I was fighting against porn in the 1980s I was the only LDS person in my community doing so. Why was it that when I spoke to a man from a larger community who had spearheaded efforts to counter porn in his city that it was only he and maybe one other person (now that I recall) who were LDS doing so?

What changed?

True, porn was not in the nice neighborhoods, for the most part, in those days - it was confined to working class communities. So maybe people in comfortable middle class areas were not really that worried about it. It was out of sight unless you were a businessman, televangelist or Republican politician who might drive to the other side of town, or visit during a convention. That does remind me of something funny. I was in a city that was hosting a Republican National Convention in those days. Funny that when I was in an establishment that had an adult magazine area that it was crowded with guys in business attire and a couple of women in nice professional outfits. When you are away from home...

Okay, I get it, now porn is accessible to everyone who has a computer. So you can be living in East LA, Bakersfield or Orem and access the same stuff everyone else can. So yes, it is a temptation to people everywhere. Yet porn in the 1980s was pretty much the same thing as today, except it was more in print and VHS. Correction: in those days it was only marketed to males but now you have feminist porn, sex-positive porn...and several other genres of porn that are really popular with female audiences. Didn't want to encourage people to borrow from gender feminists and make this look like a male-only issue as 30% of porn accessed is by women, and when you look at the under-30s females and males are almost equal in frequency of porn searches.

Just some thoughts. If anyone has an answer as to why something that was rarely talked about in the 1980s is now on the top of many LDS people's agenda please share.

This book has information about sexual perversion, pornography and other topics that plague the righteous. Take your pick.

Secret Combinations Today: A Voice of Warning
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0882905694/?ta ... vtweg7l7_b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Found on Amazon is this small tidbit:

The book warns of conspiracies on the individual level, related to sexual perversions, homosexuality, abortion, pornography, drugs and Satan worship. At the family level, attacks on family unity and the traditional nuclear family are discussed. Challenges to parenting, child and spouse abuse, and problems in moderns education are illuminated. Terrorism, organized crime, gangs and political corruption are discussed on a broader level. Significant questions about the nation's vulnerability in connection with its monetary policies and serious indebtedness are raised.

[iWriteStuff]

I read this article yesterday which tells the story of three sex addicts and the hardships they endured.... worth a read, if you want to understand the underlying motives and issues some addicts face:

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relati ... a7b4002df9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fiannan]

I read this article yesterday which tells the story of three sex addicts and the hardships they endured.... worth a read, if you want to understand the underlying motives and issues some addicts face:

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relati ... a7b4002df9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the article:

“At school I’d hide magazines and obsess over when I could look at them. The adrenaline of acquiring and hiding pornography was a potent aspect of the addiction because of the possibility of discovery and humiliation.”

This could be defined as negative reinforcement. The thrill was in the fact a person knows how wrong it is, and avoiding the punishing stimulus brings with it a hormonal rush -- kind of like couples who get intimate in a public place (known a few seemingly conservative people who think this is really fun - the chance of getting caught). I suspect that we are raising a whole generation that will mimic this if we obsess about porn. The bigger deal made, the bigger the temptation. Like if I were to tell you "Do not, repeat do not think about the color green because green is a sin." So how many shades of green are you thinking about right now? That does not mean you should not warn about the bad (sinful) aspects of porn, but if one goes overboard then it is like pouring gasoline on a stove to stop a grease fire.

[Sirocco]

Makes sense, when I was young porn wasn't a taboo, when I was young it had it's thrill but it quickly burned out because, well it's not real and when you grow up and can just google it, hardly any mystique involved.
Real people are the mystique!

[kawa17]

As a professional, I can tell you that porn addiction is NOT a Utah phenomenon, nor is it limited to religious people. There are physiological changes in the brain associated with porn that aren't associated with sexual activity with another person, and these changes and chemical responses become "addictive" for lack of a better term. It is not addictive in the sense that heroin is addictive; they don't get sick and have physical symptoms from withdrawal. But it is a compulsive disorder and is physically driven by brain chemistry just as any compulsive disorder is.

Breaking the "feedback loop" that rewards the brain can have a big impact. His brain will begin to tell him that if he doesn't engage in this activity, he will suffer (whatever--a bad feeling, something he will miss out on, etc.). If he knows this, and is prepared, and has support from either the ARC group (I'd recommend at least 3-5 meetings a week if it is available, if not, find a good Sex Addicts Anonymous group in your area) or a professional counselor that can do intensive work for a period of time (up to 3 months of meeting 3 times a week).

It is possible to recover. However, just like an alcoholic can never safely have a drink again, he must realize that for him, all sexual activity should be with another person with whom he has a committed relationship (that's the recommendation of the SAA program, a 12-Step recovery program), and one that is very sensible. That includes having sex with himself.

I realize that doesn't exactly fit what some want to hear, but that's what the professionals are seeing work best. As for your part, his wife, the best thing you can do is nurture your own emotional and spiritual health. Take a look at any of your own compulsive-type behaviors (food, spending money, etc.) that might be enabling his, or allowing him to justify his behavior. Also look at getting support for yourself, either in the ARC groups, or with a professional counselor as well.

When he has been able to handle it for a time, and is on the recovery road, I strongly urge you to work on your marriage through a professional. The dynamics of pornography has a serious impact on trust, on intimacy, and on many areas of your relationship. It doesn't just "go away" even after the behavior has stopped.

May you find the answers you seek, and the peace that evades your family right now. The Savior has the answers, but our mortal minds and hearts sometimes need a little help accessing that love and hope and healing.

Interesting discussion, I have a couple serious questions regarding this issue:
1) If I were to look at pictures of deer and elk or perhaps motorcycles and cars for an hour every day, would that be bad? Would I have the same physiological changes to my brain that one might have with porn? If not, how come? I'm spending the same amount of time looking at pictures on the internet, shouldn't it have the same effect on my brain?
2) If I were to take nude pictures of my wife and then view them on the computer each day, would that be acceptable? If I look at my wife in the nude, in person, for an hour each day, would that be acceptable? What is the difference between each of these activities? Would I still have the same deleterious physiological effect on my brain with each of these activities?

If anyone has logical answers to these questions, I would appreciate hearing them to further my understanding.

[Matchmaker]

The chemical stimulation that brings about sexual addiction by intensifying the feelings of arousal only seems to take place when one is doing something illegal, immoral, secretive, shameful, dangerous, and or forbidden. IMO that's one of the ways Lucifer blesses us for doing his bidding instead of our Heavenly Father's.

[Sirocco]

I think with porn, like you're looking at all these idealistic people and your brain doesn't understand that you're not there with them, it just sees them and thinks you're scoring tens a lot and then sees real regular people and they're not 10s and your brain can't deal.
It's not the same with other things, because porn tricks your brain where like cars don't. You don't find yourself unable to drive because all you do is fawn over DeLoreans and you own a beater.

[Fiannan]

The chemical stimulation that brings about sexual addiction by intensifying the feelings of arousal only seems to take place when one is doing something illegal, immoral, secretive, shameful, dangerous, and or forbidden. IMO that's one of the ways Lucifer blesses us for doing his bidding instead of our Heavenly Father's.

That is true. This is why people from conservative backgrounds are more prone to develop porn habits. If they give in to temptation (note that sex is an instinctive drive though) and look at porn they will get a greater hit than someone who grows up in a home where it is not treated in as big of a deal. Afterwards they will feel shame and to combat that guilt and depression they will use porn as a type of medication, thus repeating the cycle over and over again. So there is the irony, if you give a talk against porn you likely, other than stimulate younger children's curiosity to find out what all the fuss is, you trigger the adult who is trying not to use it and almost guarantee that he (or she) will be doing some searches on the net later that day.

As a teen I never quite understood the fascination that some of my more conservative friends had with porn. I of course appreciated the female form as much as anyone else but my parents never made a fuss over it and, growing up in the Pacific Northwest, and being an avid swimmer, one very, very often encountered naked women at the local swimming holes. So I knew what women looked like and also knew that sex and nudity were not synonymous with each other. So yes, even as a teen guy I wound up in conversations with naked women about politics, religion and nature. And seeing them as just any other person, knowing you had no emotional connections to them, you didn't want to take it to another step any more than a guy in a Turkish bathhouse is lusting after the men they are speaking to. This of course does not reduce desire in women any more than men who grow up in primitive villages (where the norm is nudity) feel less desire for women. It doesn't. You organize your thoughts into appropriate categories.

So there you have the catch 22. You need to teach people proper principles. Looking at porn facilitates the marginalization of moral principles because you are paying people to engage in sex, and then many people substitute real relationship goals for a vicarious experience. Yet if you harp about it then you actually wind up not only increasing curiosity, and fixation, but also make it more chemically-rewarding for the person struggling with it when he or she returns to the habit.

So what to do?

[Yahtzee]

:ymtongue:

I think with porn, like you're looking at all these idealistic people and your brain doesn't understand that you're not there with them, it just sees them and thinks you're scoring tens a lot and then sees real regular people and they're not 10s and your brain can't deal.
It's not the same with other things, because porn tricks your brain where like cars don't. You don't find yourself unable to drive because all you do is fawn over DeLoreans and you own a beater.

I like that. I'm gonna use it with my kids. Only I'll say your brain thinks you're scoring 12s - since none of that is real anyway.

[Fiannan]

:ymtongue:

I think with porn, like you're looking at all these idealistic people and your brain doesn't understand that you're not there with them, it just sees them and thinks you're scoring tens a lot and then sees real regular people and they're not 10s and your brain can't deal.
It's not the same with other things, because porn tricks your brain where like cars don't. You don't find yourself unable to drive because all you do is fawn over DeLoreans and you own a beater.

I like that. I'm gonna use it with my kids. Only I'll say your brain thinks you're scoring 12s - since none of that is real anyway.

I will note that women who star in porn are far more realistic than the women who grace the covers of the magazines that cater to young girls and women.

Their pics are digitized and made into Atlantian ideals of beauty that real women cannot attain to -- that is why women are not secure with their own bodies. Porn, at least the mainstream stuff, is at least real in the context of real actresses. Actors not so much. There is an absolutely fantastic article against porn I read recently. I cannot link it because it is also a bit explicit. However, a studio graphics expert examined films featuring men and proved that it is common practice to make men...well, more endowed than they really are in real life. In another article I read it noted that it is common practice to have male actors use injections that create an unreal image of endurance. So there you have male viewers feeling inadequate and female viewers believing that all males should be as they are in the movies they see.

[Sirocco]

Having grown up in a non religious household pornography wasn't an issue, and as such I never saw anything special in it. I mean it was there enough when I was younger, not nearly as much now since I peruse real people.
Since I can't see a situation where I'll ever get married (I don't want to be with single mothers or women who slept around a ton and are ready to "settle down" I'd really just prefer being single and those are the only sorts of people who want any actual relationship with me, so no thanks).
While I don't see it as a mountain of a problem, it was never made to be that for me so it never held any mystique, any taboo, it just exists.