Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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drtanner
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Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

Post by drtanner »

I had the blessing of participating in 3 missionary setting aparts this week. The spirit that was present was palpable and real. What did it once again burn into my heart? The priesthood keys are alive and well in this church. The authority is here. We have prophets and apostles that lead and guide his work. These are the masters keys, his authority, his blessing to conduct his work. There is no denying that power in his church. If you are on the fence or questioning the reality of priesthood keys in this church I can promise there are opportunities to have a witness of these things if you seek them.

I'm so grateful for the love and fellowship found in all religions but nothing compares to what his delegated authority and power on the earth can do for the salvation of individuals when they do there part to qualify and remain faithful for the blessings his ordinances and covenants offer. It is the only authority that can bind in heaven what is here on earth and it is only found in his church.
Last edited by drtanner on August 22nd, 2017, 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Jesef
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Manifestations of spiritual power may not mean what you think they mean (the way you are interpreting, i.e. "we are the chosen people with the only true power", etc.). People in other religions (no "priesthood keys") have just as powerful experiences and in completely different contexts, cultures, religions, etc. God is the Creator of All (every human being on this planet, and more, in the whole physical Universe) and doesn't play favorites the way we like to portray. It's difficult to fathom, but we're not that "special" and "chosen" really. Everyone is.

drtanner
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Jesef wrote: August 22nd, 2017, 8:09 pm Manifestations of spiritual power may not mean what you think they mean (the way you are interpreting, i.e. "we are the chosen people with the only true power", etc.). People in other religions (no "priesthood keys") have just as powerful experiences and in completely different contexts, cultures, religions, etc. God is the Creator of All (every human being on this planet, and more, in the whole physical Universe) and doesn't play favorites the way we like to portray. It's difficult to fathom, but we're not that "special" and "chosen" really. Everyone is.
Please forgive me if my post came off as we are better, special, or anything different than anyone else. That was not the purpose of post. We do not have a monopoly on God's love. This is Jesus Christ's church on earth and the only church authorized to administer saving ordinances that allow us to return to God's presence and to be sealed as eternal family units. Our work is to partner with him to help those who love him take full advantage of all of the blessings he has for them. The spirit that was felt this week was another witness of that reality and if anything a testament of his love for all his children on the earth by sending authorized servants to teach a message that will ultimately give those who choose to follow an inheritance of all he has.

Seek the Truth
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Jesef wrote: August 22nd, 2017, 8:09 pm Manifestations of spiritual power may not mean what you think they mean (the way you are interpreting, i.e. "we are the chosen people with the only true power", etc.). People in other religions (no "priesthood keys") have just as powerful experiences and in completely different contexts, cultures, religions, etc. God is the Creator of All (every human being on this planet, and more, in the whole physical Universe) and doesn't play favorites the way we like to portray. It's difficult to fathom, but we're not that "special" and "chosen" really. Everyone is.
Except many scriptures disagree with you.

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Alaris
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Seek the Truth wrote: August 22nd, 2017, 10:11 pm
Jesef wrote: August 22nd, 2017, 8:09 pm Manifestations of spiritual power may not mean what you think they mean (the way you are interpreting, i.e. "we are the chosen people with the only true power", etc.). People in other religions (no "priesthood keys") have just as powerful experiences and in completely different contexts, cultures, religions, etc. God is the Creator of All (every human being on this planet, and more, in the whole physical Universe) and doesn't play favorites the way we like to portray. It's difficult to fathom, but we're not that "special" and "chosen" really. Everyone is.
Except many scriptures disagree with you.
Jesef - there are levels of progression that elevate people to different levels of "chosen" status. We are Ephraim, the birthright tribe. This is why the left fights so hard to make everyone the same - they aren't trying to elevate the base but to debase the those who are special and chosen and capable. You can see so many truths just by looking at what those who list to obey the adversary say - his agenda, and where he fights the hardest has a direct relationship to what is good and true and what is most important to God. Of course the worth of all souls are great, but many are called and few are chosen. The chosen are few in comparison to the masses. That's truth. Still our God is merciful and his plan invites as many as will come.

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Jesef
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Many scriptures do disagree with or contradict my point of view - it's true - but they don't disprove or invalidate it. The scriptures (many of them) could be wrong, in error, incomplete, corrupt, tainted by men's preconceived notions and biases, cultures, egos, expectations, etc.

As for levels of progression, I believe that - but probably not the way you do, alaris. Your version seems like some sort of mysterious and mythological spiritual elitism. I see it more like a school with various grades, ages, and levels of spiritual maturity, not innate superiority or greater worthiness. An adult/mature PhD doesn't look down on a kindergartner as "evil" or "unworthy" or "inferior", just young and in early development, but with the same type of potential as himself. This is how I believe The One True God, the Creator and Eternal Parents of All, sees all of us. It's not this bipolar "righteous" & "chosen" vs "wicked" & "rejected" paradigm. The scriptures reflecting such seem very tribal and most likely very much in error.

Answer me this, why are some spirits so much more advanced than others? Are they innately superior or are they just older and more mature, more experienced? If earth/mortal life is a "one shot deal", why wouldn't spirits wait (eons even) until they had developed themselves "pre-mortally" well enough to actually pass or ace this "test" of a life? I mean everything is hanging on it, right? (according to the "one shot deal" theology) Heaven or Hell (short or long), permanent degrees of glory, etc. In fact, why didn't we all wait to come down here until we were darn well near perfect, if not perfect (like Christ)? Why did we come down here so premature & unprepared? Would that really be the Benevolent All-Mighty's Plan? Would Their Plan also really exclude 99.999% of all Their children from even having access to the critical/salvific truths and rules (the success criteria and curriculum), etc., necessary to successfully pass (or ace) "the test" - instead reserving all of that for the catch-all afterlife plan, after people had already died, the whole spirit world missionary paradigm, when it's too late and they are dependent on others to do for them what they can no longer do for themselves, because it was never available!? That doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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There are a lot of questions I have about the afterlife and how it all works. I do my best to search the scriptures, seeking, knocking and continually asking God knowing he will give liberally according to my faith, diligence, and his timing but through this process there is something I have also come to know.
The work that goes on in the afterlife is real. The temple is truly the house of the Lord. I have had sacred experiences in the temple to which there are no words. I have a witness that those on the other side are aware of the work that takes place in that sacred building. These significant experiences are a continual witness and just as powerful is the immediate rush of peace I feel when I walk through the temple doors. It is distinct and discernible. It is real. There truly is no other place like it on earth. What does all this affirm to me? It means that priesthood keys are alive and well. This is his church. We have prophets that have been endorsed by Christ and that this is his work. I can never deny the witness I have received in that sacred house.

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Jesef
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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I don't deny your experiences or what you think they mean. But, as with all things spiritual and ethereal and intangible (not physical reality, other-worldly), I must admit (and I have had many such experiences myself - I'm not speaking from ignorance or a vacuum), and I hope you have the rational thought to be able to consider, that they do not necessarily mean what we think they mean, though they are certainly valuable and meaningful. We often make a lot of assumptions, based on our context and biases and paradigm, about what these experiences and feelings mean.

For example, because you've had spiritual experiences involving what you believe were spirits or the spirits of ancestors, or feeling the Spirit powerfully, while in the Temple or doing ordinances in the Temple, you assume that it validates everything in our paradigm and that everything means what we think or perpetuate. My point is we very often think and operate within a bubble that conveniently ignores the rest of the world and a whole lot (billions) of other people and their spiritual experiences. It's called "confirmation bias" and it is the human tendency to only accept validating/confirming information or evidence (or interpretations) while minimizing or completely ignoring non-validating or contradicting information.

This is a biased and group thinking forum, so maybe this comment has no good place here. There's a 95% probability that an orthodox LDS/Mormon will not even be able to process this comment, because they will think the implications are too destabilizing & uncomfortable. To even consider that some or many things may not mean what we desperately hope or need them to creates "cognitive dissonance" (severe mental/psychological discomfort). This is why many members can't really read the Old Testament or study Church history in depth - too many disappointing facts and all-too-human people, sometimes making terrible mistakes, too messy, too uncomfortable, too complex.

It's the same reason why, when we meet someone who reads and prays about the Book of Mormon and they get a "No" or "Not true" or "run away" or some other variation of a negative answer, we assume that they are under the influence of Satan, demons, or false spirits. And why we demonize other religions' spiritual manifestations and spiritually confirmatory experiences. Like when fellow Christians relate their experiences of "being saved" or "coming to the Lord" and it strengthens their faith in their own paradigm and belief systems (which we claim are lesser, falsehood-ridden, and basically "invalid").

We're all trying to make sense of this life and this world. And there are plenty of things outside the bubble that don't fit in the bubble or that the bubble does not have answers to. I believe in God the Creator that said "Come, let us reason together..."

I could be totally wrong, btw. But I don't think I'm wrong about a lot of these things not making universal sense. Many of them just don't, not even mathematically. Many of the "answers" or reasons we've adopted are unsatisfactory and seem very non-universal (don't fit the entire world and all its people, which we claim in our teachings are all Divine, all spirit children of the same Eternal God/Heavenly Parents).
Last edited by Jesef on August 24th, 2017, 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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gclayjr
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Jesef,
Many scriptures do disagree with or contradict my point of view - it's true - but they don't disprove or invalidate it. The scriptures (many of them) could be wrong, in error, incomplete, corrupt, tainted by men's preconceived notions and biases, cultures, egos, expectations, etc.
I guess nothing even proves that there is a God. You can fantasize about whatever you want, and state that there is no proof against it. However, what does that bring to a discussion on a LDS board, other than demonstrate that you don't believe in the Church, priesthood or Gospel?

OK, but what do you have to logically support your fantasy, that might be useful to thinking people?

Regards,

George Clay

drtanner
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Jesef, you to can know these things. They are real and true.

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Jesef
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I have as much evidence as you have. Think and pray about it, I guess. Maybe these are some of the mysteries. Many people are claiming to "know" things that they simply believe or strongly believe, or they are pretending to know. By what evidence do you claim to "know" and to know the meaning of what you claim to know?

This is as much a speculation forum as it is an LDS/Mormon dogma one. We are free to explore ideas. Some of you think you "know" or have it all figured out, everything fitting nicely into their neat little cubby holes. But that might be a fantasy too.

I hope you don't find a little out-of-the-box thinking too offensive. If you do, I'm happy to withdraw. I just don't think we know very much to be honest. That doesn't make what we believe or teach worthless or meaningless. That's not what I'm saying.

drtanner
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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I've already been down that road. At this point I'm not open to questioning God. It is true and I could never deny the witnesses I have received from him. I will pray for you to receive the same.

Just out of curiosity, why post these things here? Are you lds? Do you believe in the church?

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Alaris
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Jesef wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 2:24 pm I have as much evidence as you have. Think and pray about it, I guess. Maybe these are some of the mysteries. Many people are claiming to "know" things that they simply believe or strongly believe, or they are pretending to know. By what evidence do you claim to "know" and to know the meaning of what you claim to know?

This is as much a speculation forum as it is an LDS/Mormon dogma one. We are free to explore ideas. Some of you think you "know" or have it all figured out, everything fitting nicely into their neat little cubby holes. But that might be a fantasy too.

I hope you don't find a little out-of-the-box thinking too offensive. If you do, I'm happy to withdraw. I just don't think we know very much to be honest. That doesn't make what we believe or teach worthless or meaningless. That's not what I'm saying.
You should really check out my blog as it explains exactly what we're talking about. Light levels are a function of time and obedience. Some progress faster than others which is why I believe prophets are almost always if not always a younger brother. So the age of the soul is a factor but only one factor.

Lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com

Godhood is participatory. The higher level souls help teach and govern younger souls. We are all important parts of the plan of salvation... The younger souls needing the more advanced souls and vice versa for the advanced souls to learn how to be Gods. Both need the rebellious souls to provide opposition.

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Mindfields
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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"One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth let it come from where it may.” Joseph Smith in Words of Joseph Smith pp. 229.

“The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we have the right to embrace all, and every item of the truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds and superstitious notions of men.” Joseph Smith in The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, pp. 420.

“I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like Methodism and not like Latter day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be tramelled.” Joseph Smith in The Words of Joseph Smith, pp. 183-184

“I cannot believe in any of the creeds of the different denominations, because they all have some things in them I cannot subscribe to, though all of them have some truth. I want to come up into the presence of God, and learn all things; but the creeds set up stakes, and say, ‘Hitherto shalt thou come, and no further;’ which I cannot subscribe to.” Joseph Smith, Discourse to Saints, October 1843; DHC 6:57.

“..I stated that the most prominent difference in sentiment between the Latter-day Saints and sectarians was, that the latter were all circumscribed by some peculiar creed, which deprived its members the privilege of believing anything not contained therein, whereas the Latter-day Saints … are ready to believe all true principles that exist, as they are made manifest from time to time…” Joseph Smith, January 1843, History of the Church, 5:215; from “History of the Church” (manuscript), book D-1, p. 1433, Church Archives.

"If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a "Mormon," I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves. It is a love of liberty which inspires my soul — civil and religious liberty to the whole of the human race."
—Joseph Smith, 1843

"Be it ordained by the City Council of the City of Nauvoo, that the Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, Latter-day Saints, Quakers, Episcopals, Universalists, Unitarians, Mohammedans [Muslims], and all other religious sects and denominations whatever, shall have free toleration, and equal privileges in this city ..."
—Ordinance in Relation to Religious Societies, City of Nauvoo, [Illinois] headquarters of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, March 1, 1841

Joseph was so open to truth, freedom and love of his fellow man. To me it seems like most of us have lost this and replaced it with something much more confining, restricting and exclusive. I hope for better days.

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Jonesy
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Mindfields wrote: August 24th, 2017, 7:37 am Joseph was so open to truth, freedom and love of his fellow man. To me it seems like most of us have lost this and replaced it with something much more confining, restricting and exclusive. I hope for better days.
Are you talking in regards to the keys? The fullness of the keys, of which the church is in possession, is a true doctrine.

drtanner
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Re: Another Testimony of Priesthood Keys

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Joseph was so open to truth, freedom and love of his fellow man. To me it seems like most of us have lost this and replaced it with something much more confining, restricting and exclusive. I hope for better days.
I hope we embrace and recognize truth regardless of where it is found, however it is a sad day when people misunderstand embracing truth with testifying of the reality of living prophets, priesthood keys, and saving ordinances. The reality of these things enhance our quest and ability to find and recognize it in all its forms.

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