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Z2100
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Re: Do you ever wish you were born during the Millennium?

Post by Z2100 »

passionflower wrote: August 20th, 2017, 4:59 pm
Dave62 wrote: August 20th, 2017, 12:23 am Nah! I don't mind a bit of opposition...

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."
Let's all remind ourselves that Jesus Christ, the greatest of all, did not get to be born during the Millennium.
And that you are right. He was born in the most uncivilized era in all of World History.

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Alaris
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Re: Do you ever wish you were born during the Millennium?

Post by Alaris »

Michelle wrote: August 20th, 2017, 8:28 pm
alaris wrote: August 20th, 2017, 4:34 pm
Sure maybe you're right. I can respect your interpretation of scripture without LOLs or accusations of wresting though I'm not sure how that word applies. So you believe there are two paths to Godhood as do many if not most LDS. There is the path that Jesus and the Father took and there is the path we take. So what Joseph Smith said about "the same as all gods have done before you" must have been wrong. If there is one path then there are at least two mortal probations. And if there are two then are there more?

Mocking belongs in the large in spacious not in a civil discussion of scripture and eternal truth. Additionally once you've mocked someone you've attached your pride to your position and the possibility of learning something new flies like pieces of glass. I know it's easy to mock behind the warm comfort of anonymity but it is unbecoming of a disciple of Jesus Christ who has covenanted to witness and comfort not mock and condescend.
Funny how even though I assured you I wasn't mocking you, you managed to hear it. Still not mocking, but not going to discuss this further with you. I do think it is funny your claim of anonymity. My name IS Michelle. Is your name Alaris?
Yeah that's like saying "I don't mean to be rude but...."

And that's very brave revealing your name like that. That really narrows it down. Good for you to shoot down a discussion so bravely with mockery that wasn't mockery, rudeness wasn't rude under the rare name Michelle.

So many try to shut down threads with contention, belittling, and mocking on LDSFF. Makes me wonder how many more people would chime in if they didn't want a LOL or being accused of wresting...

How about letting the strength of your position speak for itself? Truth doesn't need mocking or belittling but such certainly weakens one's stance further as though such stooping is needed as a crutch to compensate.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Do you ever wish you were born during the Millennium?

Post by Silver Pie »

CelestialAngel wrote: August 16th, 2017, 8:25 pm I know I'm living in this time period with lots of wickedness but sometimes it seems like it would be so wonderful to be born during the 1000 years of peace. Those souls must have proven themselves in the pre mortal life.
I used to want that. Lately, though, I have seen my weaknesses more and more clearly and I can see that I'm not the type of person who could live then, though I hope to become someone like that.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Do you ever wish you were born during the Millennium?

Post by Silver Pie »

I really hate it when people quote long posts, but I feel I have to do it in this case because the below conversation is what I'm replying to, and I think the conversation/quotes are worth repeating.

MMP - multiple mortal probations. I know that a lot of people believe in reincarnation (that they lived as someone else, here on earth, in the past). I think that is a totally false doctrine. What I get when I read those scriptures below is something like this: "from eternity to eternity" - What is between those eternities are mortal lives. One round begins with the planning stage and ends as the next planning stage begins. Note that in the New Testament, some of the apostles viewed their long absence from their bodies in a negative light. I don't think they would have held that opinion if they were going to be reborn several more times.

I believe this mortality is hell (the devils are here, are they not?). I believe we are cast into hell, most of us, because we deserve it (see D&C 76 for the definition of those who deserve it). And, here on earth, each person differs from another as one star differs from another in glory. Some have greater understanding, some have none, and we run the gamut. And we are ministered to by those in the terrestrial kingdom (angels, for example) and Gods. I think that some of those people worthy of higher kingdoms chose to come here and live in this mortality to teach the rest of us, to try to lift us up so that we could finally reach a point where we no longer need to come to wicked worlds. I think these people are the ones God calls as prophets (as well as the Son of God, himself). The Pearl of Great Price is a good example of this, telling Abraham that he was one of those on a higher level.

I also think there is progression beyond the celestial kingdom because D&C 76 mentions a higher kingdom in passing.

As for eternal lives, I had always thought that meant the married couple becoming gods/Gods and having eternal offspring. More recently, though, I think of the scripture in the D&C (19? I forget which section) where the Lord said his name is Endless and Eternal, and I think that "eternal lives" means having lives like the Gods do (Gods, plural, is in the Pearl of Great Price). "You will have Eternal lives, my children, if you are faithful to me," that type of thing.

Anyway, great convo!
alaris wrote: August 20th, 2017, 3:24 pm
Yahtzee wrote: August 20th, 2017, 2:27 pm
alaris wrote: August 20th, 2017, 2:21 pm
Yahtzee wrote: August 20th, 2017, 2:07 pm
I always thought it meant they were resurrected into their child body which would grow into adulthood. So if it's the same body, it would not be MMP, right? But now I wonder what the cutoff is?? If a 90 year old isn't resurrected into a 90yr old body, why is a child in a child body?? Anyone have an answer??
And yeah, it doesn't seem fair. I was sad when I turned 8 because my free pass was gone. I suppose that's where the atonement comes into play. God isn't fair, but He is just.
MMP is the answer. The millennium is a time for only Israel to be born and do its proxy work which is why it can all be accomplished in 1000 years as it takes 6000 to incarnate Israel along with all the second estate beings.
But if they're resurrected they aren't reborn. Maybe I need to go read that other thread about MMP as I may not be understanding it.
We don't know all the rules of resurrection, and there are tons of clues that it is far more complicated than the primary lesson about the plan of salvation with the three kingdoms drawn as circles and a line drawn as the final judgement between this world and those - I need to write an article dedicated to just MMP. Here is one clue:
" you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power." Jospeh Smith King Follet Sermon
Here is another:
Alma 40: 19 Now, whether the souls and the bodies of those of whom has been spoken shall all be reunited at once, the wicked as well as the righteous, I do not say; let it suffice, that I say that they all come forth; or in other words, their resurrection cometh to pass before the resurrection of those who die after the resurrection of Christ.
20 Now, my son, I do not say that their resurrection cometh at the resurrection of Christ; but behold, I give it as my opinion, that the souls and the bodies are reunited, of the righteous, at the resurrection of Christ, and his ascension into heaven.
21 But whether it be at his resurrection or after, I do not say; but this much I say, that there is a space between death and the resurrection of the body, and a state of the soul in happiness or in misery until the time which is appointed of God that the dead shall come forth, and be reunited, both soul and body, and be brought to stand before God, and be judged according to their works.
Eternal lives - plural
D&C 132: 24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
Fourth use of overcometh given by the Lord to the fourth angel over the fourth church (congregation of souls)
Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
The morning star is given to those who are the noble and great ones to rule and administer a new creation with a new Son - this is why we must become spiritual begotten sons and daughters of Christ - so that he will take us with Him as He ascends to be Father over His Son or Sons as the case may be. :)
Mosiah 5:7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
Then there's Alma 13:
Alma 13:
2 And those priests were ordained after the order of his Son, in a manner that thereby the people might know in what manner to look forward to his Son for redemption.

3 And this is the manner after which they were ordained—being called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works; in the first place being left to choose good or evil; therefore they having chosen good, and exercising exceedingly great faith, are called with a holy calling, yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with, and according to, a preparatory redemption for such.

4 And thus they have been called to this holy calling on account of their faith, while others would reject the Spirit of God on account of the hardness of their hearts and blindness of their minds, while, if it had not been for this they might have had as great privilege as their brethren.

5 Or in fine, in the first place they were on the same standing with their brethren; thus this holy calling being prepared from the foundation of the world for such as would not harden their hearts, being in and through the atonement of the Only Begotten Son, who was prepared—

6 And thus being called by this holy calling, and ordained unto the high priesthood of the holy order of God, to teach his commandments unto the children of men, that they also might enter into his rest—

7 This high priesthood being after the order of his Son, which order was from the foundation of the world; or in other words, being without beginning of days or end of years, being prepared from eternity to all eternity, according to his foreknowledge of all things—

8 Now they were ordained after this manner—being called with a holy calling, and ordained with a holy ordinance, and taking upon them the high priesthood of the holy order, which calling, and ordinance, and high priesthood, is without beginning or end—

9 Thus they become high priests forever, after the order of the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, who is without beginning of days or end of years, who is full of grace, equity, and truth. And thus it is. Amen.

10 Now, as I said concerning the holy order, or this high priesthood, there were many who were ordained and became high priests of God; and it was on account of their exceeding faith and repentance, and their righteousness before God, they choosing to repent and work righteousness rather than to perish;
Don't we teach that it is difficult to repent after losing our bodies? ;) ;)
Alma 34:33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.
and on and on - it's all over the place in the scriptures ... hiding in plain sight.

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