Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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inquirringmind
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Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by inquirringmind »

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[BRINGING TO LIGHT ALL THE HIDDEN THINGS]
To those who have been a part of this movement and have interest in the covenant being offered in September in Boise:

The scripture project is important. This movement has spent countless hours in diligent work and effort for the offered covenant. There has been much to read and study, ponder and pray about. In light of new events, there is more yet to take to the Lord. Because God only works in the light, it is important to bring all things, wherein we know them, to light.

On Monday, July 31st, 2017 a council of 15 women gathered to potentially revoke a priesthood certificate because accusations had arisen of priestcraft and sexual misconduct a particular brother had and still continued to commit. He will be referred to as “John Doe” out of respect for the repentance process. It is important for you to know some information about this particular person not because of who he is, but because he has been a key member of the scripture committee. For that reason, and that reason alone, he will be mentioned and his impact on the scripture project discussed.

At John Doe’s hearing, Denver attended and testified to the council on July 31st; informing the council that John Doe was “a key contributor” on the scripture project. Furthermore, he stated that John Doe “had received important revelations concerning the scripture project.” Denver also confidently assured the council that John Doe was “innocent”.

Love and mercy should be extended whenever possible. In the trial, witnesses testified of having reached out to John Doe several times on different occasions in love and mercy to persuade him to change his behavior and help him see he had been deceived. He did not take the suggestions and the advice and continued in his behavior. Holding a council of 12 women was a last resort. After all of the evidence had been presented and the witnesses had testified, at the end of the council, the council of 15 women came to a different conclusion than had been testified by Denver and unanimously voted it was necessary to remove John Doe’s priesthood certificate.

Efforts are underway right now to exert power and influence on the council of 15 women to have their conclusions reversed because of how their decision impacts the validity of the scripture covenant.

Before the Women’s council had been officially organized – Denver was notified of some of John Doe’s past and recent behavior. John Doe had believed in, taught, and practiced “bonded soulmates” among other things. Bonded soulmates is a form of spiritual wifery in which the participants claim marriage to someone else in a former lifetime/probation as justification for intimate relationships, sexual misconduct, fornication, or adultery. “Spiritual” rituals/ordinances were performed between “bonded” individuals. When Denver approached the scripture committee with accusations of misconduct, John Doe made a confession to Denver and the committee of some aspects of his misconduct and appeared very repentant and humble.

When the Women’s council took place, at the end of the witnesses statements, John Doe gave a closing statement in which he testified that the witnesses had all lied. During the questions after his closing statement he admitted that he had been committing sexual misconduct while working on the scripture project and it became clear he had lied and there was not remorse for the damage his actions had caused or a change in direction spiritually.

All the witnesses shared their testimonies of the powerful influence John Doe had exhibited throughout their interactions with him and the troubling concern of his ability to receive detailed and believable “revelation from the Lord”. It became clear that Denver had believed John Doe’s expressions of repentance and remorse. John Doe was not “innocent” as had been testified before the council.

Because John Doe had lied to Denver and the scripture committee, concern was expressed regarding the validity of the contributions of John Doe in the project.

When Denver and the Scripture committee were emailed about this issue days after the verdict, this was the scripture committee’s response:

“In the Lord’s answer to our petition concerning the scripture project, He has accepted the scriptures as they stand – including [John Doe’s] contributions. What more do you need? The main message of the Lord’s response is one of forgiveness and love.

[John Doe’s] participation on the scripture committee has nothing to do with your proceedings, which have concluded. We have no desire to get involved with what went on. [John Doe] can speak for himself.”

The Scripture committee, through their response, essentially stated that John Doe’s behavior was worthy enough to the Lord that he (John Doe) could still hold his prominent position on the council and be a mouthpiece of revelation while committing sexual misconduct having intimate relationships.

The witnesses held no ill will for and had forgiven John Doe long ago. The group of witnesses were concerned for other future potential victims of John Doe, and now in light of Denver’s testimony, for his significant contributions to the scripture project and their validity. Given this case and the information now coming to light, the following questions ought to be considered.

No one is perfect and we all make mistakes. Mercy and forgiveness should be extended whenever and wherever possible. Does the Lord approve of and accept revelations and contributions to His work from a person when they were continuing unrepentant in committing gross sin?
What are ALL the contributions and revelations made by John Doe to the scripture project? Are they valid and approved by the Lord?
Have there been efforts to cover the gross sins of members of the scripture committee, and if so, why and what effect does this have on the overall project?
How does D&C 63:16 apply in this situation?
Because of the decision made by the council of women to remove John Doe’s certificate of priesthood authority, it follows he was operating without priesthood during the time he was contributing on the scriptures and receiving revelation. D&C 121 says:

36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.

Denver was emailed and asked to provide the “key contributions” and “important revelations” John Doe made and received for the Scripture project. Denver responded and said, “All the correspondence between the scripture committee will be made public. Everyone can read what each member of the committee said in their communications”. When asked what day those communications would be made available, Denver did not respond. When Denver was asked if he would share his private communications with John Doe, Denver remained silent. Two weeks after John Doe’s trial, we have yet to receive any transparency on all of the “revelations” and “key contributions” John Doe made. It is important for ALL information to come forward now so there will be sufficient time to make an informed decision about scripture project.

This letter was written to those who desire a covenant with the Lord their God and who are kept from the truth only because they know not where to find it. It is the duty of all who have truth and light to make it known. Most of the people in this movement may never know the details of the events that have transpired. But some do. And now you are one of them. Now it is your obligation to pray about and share this with those who do not know.

D&C 123:

1 And again, we would suggest for your consideration the propriety of all the saints gathering up a knowledge of all the facts, and sufferings and abuses put upon them by the people of this State;

7 It is an imperative duty that we owe to God, to angels, with whom we shall be brought to stand, and also to ourselves, to our wives and children…

12 For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it—

13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—

14 These should then be attended to with great earnestness.

15 Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things.

16 You know, brethren, that a very large ship is benefited very much by a very small helm in the time of a storm, by being kept workways with the wind and the waves.

17 Therefore, dearly beloved brethren, let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed.

Witnesses in the Women’s Council:

Ryan Thompson, Ruth Thompson, Melonie Turley, Brad Olsen, Bernadette Coss
https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wor ... blog-post/

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Arenera
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by Arenera »

Exciting times in the Church of Denver Snuffer. Or the Church of the Remnants. Or the People of Denver.

It doesn't take long before you see the challenges of starting your own church.

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AI2.0
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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inquirringmind wrote: August 14th, 2017, 10:56 pm
[BRINGING TO LIGHT ALL THE HIDDEN THINGS]
To those who have been a part of this movement and have interest in the covenant being offered in September in Boise:

The scripture project is important. This movement has spent countless hours in diligent work and effort for the offered covenant. There has been much to read and study, ponder and pray about. In light of new events, there is more yet to take to the Lord. Because God only works in the light, it is important to bring all things, wherein we know them, to light.

On Monday, July 31st, 2017 a council of 15 women gathered to potentially revoke a priesthood certificate because accusations had arisen of priestcraft and sexual misconduct a particular brother had and still continued to commit.
https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wor ... blog-post/
Thanks for sharing this here.

I'm interested in what the Remnant forum members here think of this situation. Do they agree with the decision of the 15 women to revoke the guy's priesthood or do they stand with Denver Snuffer, that this is a non-issue? Do they believe that if a person is committing serious sins, they can still receive revelation from God?

But, one has to ask...is this sinful, among the Remnant group? In the LDS church a man having affairs is a no brainer--D&C points out that a person is this situation does not have the spirit. I can understand the concern over their scripture project. But the biggest concern should be the fact that according to their beliefs, this man can claim that he was taught the spiritual bonding doctrine by god and what can the others do? They are challenging his claims to revelation and saying that only things that they approve are correct. In a church where everyone believes that God teaches them individually, that they shouldn't listen to the other 'arms of flesh' around them, who decides what is sin and what is not?

I also wonder how many of the remnant group even know about this situation?

KFarber
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by KFarber »

AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 10:06 am
inquirringmind wrote: August 14th, 2017, 10:56 pm ???????????????????????????????????????????????
[BRINGING TO LIGHT ALL THE HIDDEN THINGS]
To those who have been a part of this movement and have interest in the covenant being offered in September in Boise:

The scripture project is important. This movement has spent countless hours in diligent work and effort for the offered covenant. There has been much to read and study, ponder and pray about. In light of new events, there is more yet to take to the Lord. Because God only works in the light, it is important to bring all things, wherein we know them, to light.

On Monday, July 31st, 2017 a council of 15 women gathered to potentially revoke a priesthood certificate because accusations had arisen of priestcraft and sexual misconduct a particular brother had and still continued to commit.
https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wor ... blog-post/

???????????????????????????????????????????????
Thanks for sharing this here.

I'm interested in what the Remnant forum members here think of this situation. Do they agree with the decision of the 15 women to revoke the guy's priesthood or do they stand with Denver Snuffer, that this is a non-issue? Do they believe that if a person is committing serious sins, they can still receive revelation from God?

But, one has to ask...is this sinful, among the Remnant group? In the LDS church a man having affairs is a no brainer--D&C points out that a person is this situation does not have the spirit. I can understand the concern over their scripture project. But the biggest concern should be the fact that according to their beliefs, this man can claim that he was taught the spiritual bonding doctrine by god and what can the others do? They are challenging his claims to revelation and saying that only things that they approve are correct. In a church where everyone believes that God teaches them individually, that they shouldn't listen to the other 'arms of flesh' around them, who decides what is sin and what is not?

I also wonder how many of the remnant group even know about this situation?
To answer one question, the council only revolked his certificate that allows him to perform ordinances within fellowships. The belief is that only God can remove priesthood.

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AI2.0
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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Thanks for answering kfarber. That makes sense, especially because there are obviously many men in the remnant who've been excommunicated and yet, still claim to hold priesthood.

Are you aware of what's going on in the remnant, do you know if it's acceptable for members to have their own set of beliefs? I assume that a person could claim that God told them that there is no such thing as fornication or adultery (essentially that's what John doe is claiming), they could do as they pleased and no one could accuse them of 'sin', right?

If someone knows the answer to this.... is there any behavior in the remnant which is absolutely considered a 'sin' and not allowed? As I see it, remnant followers can do whatever they please, as long as they insist that 'the Lord' told them it is allowed. They are told 'trust no man' and told to go directly to god, so whatever they say 'god' told them, the others can't question.
Last edited by AI2.0 on August 15th, 2017, 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 10:06 am Thanks for sharing this here.

I'm interested in what the Remnant forum members here think of this situation. Do they agree with the decision of the 15 women to revoke the guy's priesthood or do they stand with Denver Snuffer, that this is a non-issue? Do they believe that if a person is committing serious sins, they can still receive revelation from God?

But, one has to ask...is this sinful, among the Remnant group? In the LDS church a man having affairs is a no brainer--D&C points out that a person is this situation does not have the spirit. I can understand the concern over their scripture project. But the biggest concern should be the fact that according to their beliefs, this man can claim that he was taught the spiritual bonding doctrine by god and what can the others do? They are challenging his claims to revelation and saying that only things that they approve are correct. In a church where everyone believes that God teaches them individually, that they shouldn't listen to the other 'arms of flesh' around them, who decides what is sin and what is not?

I also wonder how many of the remnant group even know about this situation?
I'm not in the movement but I have some opinions on this. I feel they are going against their own premise. The idea behind the women sustaining the men in the priesthood is to provide a balance of power and keep the men from simply approving of each other but that is exactly what the scripture committee is doing. They began with a good idea that would help decentralize the power but it's morphing back to business as usual the more they seek to organize the movement.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 10:59 am Thanks for answering kfarber. That makes sense, especially because there are obviously many men in the remnant who've been excommunicated and yet, still claim to hold priesthood.

Are you aware of what's going on in the remnant, do you know if it's acceptable for members to have their own set of beliefs? I assume that a person could claim the God told them that there is no such thing as fornication or adultery (essentially that' what John doe is claiming), they could do as they pleased and no one could accuse them of 'sin', right?

If someone knows to answer this, is there any behavior in the remnant which is absolutely considered a 'sin' and not allowed? As I see it, remnant followers can do whatever they please, as long as they insist that 'the Lord' told them it is allowed.
Those are some really good questions. As far as I know, there is no generally accepted actions accepted as right or wrong. That might change. However, from what I understand, if seven women sustain a man and sign a certificate to that effect, he's considered worthy to perform priesthood ordinances. So it would be a matter of what the seven women believe is right or wrong.

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AI2.0
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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I agree with you Meili, I think the whole premise for the women 'sustaining' the men to exercise priesthood was to balance power but it's clear that revoking this man's priesthood tarnishes the scripture project and they can't have that-- so I assume, the pressure is being put on the women overturn their decision.

I also suspect that there are mixed feelings among the group. It's a group that believes other's can't judge them or tell them when they are wrong in their beliefs. While Denver Snuffer doesn't approve of polygamy, I'm certain that there are some in the group who do and they may also be sympathetic to this 'soul bonding' practice. I also know that some believe in multiple mortal probations or past lives and so they might be sympathetic to this man claiming to be hooking up with past mates--they may see their own unorthodox beliefs being challenged by the group and they don't like it.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I'm not sure they can clamp this down, but I'm sure the pressure is on to get the writers to take down the blog inquiring mind shared here--they will want that gone for sure, the Remnant will not want others knowing that there are any problems within their group.

If they are honest, they won't hide them or cover them up, they will accept the challenge of determining just what their 'remnant' stands for and what they will and will not allow within their community.

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brlenox
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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inquirringmind wrote: August 14th, 2017, 10:56 pm ???????????????????????????????????????????????

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Thank you very interesting information.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:12 am I agree with you Meili, I think the whole premise for the women 'sustaining' the men to exercise priesthood was to balance power but it's clear that revoking this man's priesthood tarnishes the scripture project and they can't have that-- so I assume, the pressure is being put on the women overturn their decision.

I also suspect that there are mixed feelings among the group. It's a group that believes other's can't judge them or tell them when they are wrong in their beliefs. While Denver Snuffer doesn't approve of polygamy, I'm certain that there are some in the group who do and they may also be sympathetic to this 'soul bonding' practice. I also know that some believe in multiple mortal probations or past lives and so they might be sympathetic to this man claiming to be hooking up with past mates--they may see their own unorthodox beliefs being challenged by the group and they don't like it.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I'm not sure they can clamp this down, but I'm sure the pressure is on to get the writers to take down the blog inquiring mind shared here--they will want that gone for sure, the Remnant will not want others knowing that there are any problems within their group.

If they are honest, they won't hide them or cover them up, they will accept the challenge of determining just what their 'remnant' stands for and what they will and will not allow within their community.
Well said. I'm also interested to see what will happen.

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Arenera
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:12 am I agree with you Meili, I think the whole premise for the women 'sustaining' the men to exercise priesthood was to balance power but it's clear that revoking this man's priesthood tarnishes the scripture project and they can't have that-- so I assume, the pressure is being put on the women overturn their decision.

I also suspect that there are mixed feelings among the group. It's a group that believes other's can't judge them or tell them when they are wrong in their beliefs. While Denver Snuffer doesn't approve of polygamy, I'm certain that there are some in the group who do and they may also be sympathetic to this 'soul bonding' practice. I also know that some believe in multiple mortal probations or past lives and so they might be sympathetic to this man claiming to be hooking up with past mates--they may see their own unorthodox beliefs being challenged by the group and they don't like it.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I'm not sure they can clamp this down, but I'm sure the pressure is on to get the writers to take down the blog inquiring mind shared here--they will want that gone for sure, the Remnant will not want others knowing that there are any problems within their group.

If they are honest, they won't hide them or cover them up, they will accept the challenge of determining just what their 'remnant' stands for and what they will and will not allow within their community.
It sounds like there are Jane Doe's too.

The Remnants, whether leaving the church or hiding in the church, are finding that the principles of their prophet, Denver, is a two edged sword. The sword is now cutting them. How devastating to find wickedness in the middle of their scripture project.

When people reject the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or jump off the Good Ship Zion, live only gets worse. Pass the wine please.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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Arenera wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:24 am
AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:12 am I agree with you Meili, I think the whole premise for the women 'sustaining' the men to exercise priesthood was to balance power but it's clear that revoking this man's priesthood tarnishes the scripture project and they can't have that-- so I assume, the pressure is being put on the women overturn their decision.

I also suspect that there are mixed feelings among the group. It's a group that believes other's can't judge them or tell them when they are wrong in their beliefs. While Denver Snuffer doesn't approve of polygamy, I'm certain that there are some in the group who do and they may also be sympathetic to this 'soul bonding' practice. I also know that some believe in multiple mortal probations or past lives and so they might be sympathetic to this man claiming to be hooking up with past mates--they may see their own unorthodox beliefs being challenged by the group and they don't like it.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I'm not sure they can clamp this down, but I'm sure the pressure is on to get the writers to take down the blog inquiring mind shared here--they will want that gone for sure, the Remnant will not want others knowing that there are any problems within their group.

If they are honest, they won't hide them or cover them up, they will accept the challenge of determining just what their 'remnant' stands for and what they will and will not allow within their community.
It sounds like there are Jane Doe's too.

The Remnants, whether leaving the church or hiding in the church, are finding that the principles of their prophet, Denver, is a two edged sword. The sword is now cutting them. How devastating to find wickedness in the middle of their scripture project.

When people reject the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or jump off the Good Ship Zion, live only gets worse. Pass the wine please.
So when did you leave the church?

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Arenera
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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Meili wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:30 am
Arenera wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:24 am
AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:12 am I agree with you Meili, I think the whole premise for the women 'sustaining' the men to exercise priesthood was to balance power but it's clear that revoking this man's priesthood tarnishes the scripture project and they can't have that-- so I assume, the pressure is being put on the women overturn their decision.

I also suspect that there are mixed feelings among the group. It's a group that believes other's can't judge them or tell them when they are wrong in their beliefs. While Denver Snuffer doesn't approve of polygamy, I'm certain that there are some in the group who do and they may also be sympathetic to this 'soul bonding' practice. I also know that some believe in multiple mortal probations or past lives and so they might be sympathetic to this man claiming to be hooking up with past mates--they may see their own unorthodox beliefs being challenged by the group and they don't like it.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I'm not sure they can clamp this down, but I'm sure the pressure is on to get the writers to take down the blog inquiring mind shared here--they will want that gone for sure, the Remnant will not want others knowing that there are any problems within their group.

If they are honest, they won't hide them or cover them up, they will accept the challenge of determining just what their 'remnant' stands for and what they will and will not allow within their community.
It sounds like there are Jane Doe's too.

The Remnants, whether leaving the church or hiding in the church, are finding that the principles of their prophet, Denver, is a two edged sword. The sword is now cutting them. How devastating to find wickedness in the middle of their scripture project.

When people reject the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or jump off the Good Ship Zion, live only gets worse. Pass the wine please.
So when did you leave the church?
I'm still on the Good Ship Zion. I was talking about dissidents.

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brlenox
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

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In the interest of maintaining a record should anything happen to the source here is a reply to the original post:
One thought on ““…Bringing to Light all the Hidden Things…” ~D&C 123:13”

Anonymous

August 15, 2017 at 4:57 pm


There are so many things that need to be brought into the light and hopefully this is the beginning of a different kind of movement – a movement of integrity, accountability and a return to God. The problem I have with the restoration movement is it is so elitist … and filled with fear that if you don’t take the covenant you will not be protected on this land. There is a belief in the restoration movement that the LDS gentiles are more favored in God’s eyes and that is why a covenant is being offered. Fiddlesticks! My own experience with David, is that he says one thing and then he flip-flops … that is a pattern in his leadership.

As far as mistakes and deception, Joseph made mistakes and was deceived many times, as have all the servants of God been and as we all are at times. But he owned up to them, as did other prophets of other dispensations. I cannot and will not take a covenant that is offered by a mortal man who claims to be the David Servant. I do not believe he is. He has proclaimed this title of Davidic Servant as belonging to him to many of his closest friends and has now made it known to all of us via his new name. Because he does not fit Isaiah’s description of the last days Davidic Servant, I see that David (Denver) is a false or fallen Servant. Though there is much truth in what he writes, there is also much deception. His continual flip-flopping on matters should be a concern for all who follow him.

Thank you Thompsons, Turley, Olsen and Coss for being brave enough to have your voices heard and recorded. It is time that the movement of all believers in Jesus return to a higher ethical and moral standard and govern by and through the love of God. When we truly love God, we are filled with His love and light and we work hard to rid ourselves of our own carnal nature – we want to be accountable in all things. When we are filled with God’s light and love we see others the way God does and it allows us to have better discernment and a desire to serve others. We are no longer motivated by our own carnal desires. I have never resonated with the restoration movement because it keeps people in the past … it is time to go forward … it is time to let go of false traditions and not rely on the arm of flesh but only the Arm of God … Trust Him, Believe Him, Worship Him and none other. This restoration movement seems to worship Denver and Joseph … just like the Jews worshipping Abraham and Moses. They were not able to discern the Savior because of idolatry of past prophets. It is time to stop the idolatry and return to Him, the God of all of us. Until you can let go of your idolatry of leaders and past prophets, you will be precluded from entering Zion.

Have you ever wondered why Denver switched from teaching and writing about parting the veil to restoration and Zion? When one is focused on Jesus and being like Him, you become Christ-like and become a Zion person. Concentrating on the restoration and Zion is a rather diabolical in nature because you are no longer centered and focused on Jesus and therefore cannot become Zion. How incredibly devious is Satan to have you believe you are concentrating on something good but you miss out on the end-result – receiving your Second Comforter and being like Him. Then you are a Zion people.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by Rose Garden »

Arenera wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:32 am
Meili wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:30 am
Arenera wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:24 am
AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:12 am I agree with you Meili, I think the whole premise for the women 'sustaining' the men to exercise priesthood was to balance power but it's clear that revoking this man's priesthood tarnishes the scripture project and they can't have that-- so I assume, the pressure is being put on the women overturn their decision.

I also suspect that there are mixed feelings among the group. It's a group that believes other's can't judge them or tell them when they are wrong in their beliefs. While Denver Snuffer doesn't approve of polygamy, I'm certain that there are some in the group who do and they may also be sympathetic to this 'soul bonding' practice. I also know that some believe in multiple mortal probations or past lives and so they might be sympathetic to this man claiming to be hooking up with past mates--they may see their own unorthodox beliefs being challenged by the group and they don't like it.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I'm not sure they can clamp this down, but I'm sure the pressure is on to get the writers to take down the blog inquiring mind shared here--they will want that gone for sure, the Remnant will not want others knowing that there are any problems within their group.

If they are honest, they won't hide them or cover them up, they will accept the challenge of determining just what their 'remnant' stands for and what they will and will not allow within their community.
It sounds like there are Jane Doe's too.

The Remnants, whether leaving the church or hiding in the church, are finding that the principles of their prophet, Denver, is a two edged sword. The sword is now cutting them. How devastating to find wickedness in the middle of their scripture project.

When people reject the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or jump off the Good Ship Zion, live only gets worse. Pass the wine please.
So when did you leave the church?
I'm still on the Good Ship Zion. I was talking about dissidents.
I apologise. I was setting you up to make a point--just one of my old vices resurfacing. I shouldn't have done it.

My point is that you can't know what something is like until you've done it. So if you've never left the church, you can't know if life only gets worse.

I've left the church. I'm not a part of the remnant movement but I have many friends who are. I'm what one of my friends calls an indie, which stands for independent Mormon. I believe the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet but I am not part of any group or organization.

Many people would look at my life now and say that I'm worse off than I was but I wouldn't. Emotionally I'm so much more stable and peaceful. I'm much less judgmental and more forgiving. I love and accept people more easily, even when what they are doing is hurting me. I consider these precious gifts.

I have no intention of offense but to be absolutely honest, when I think of the church these days I am filled with gratitude that I'm no longer a part of it. I don't think I can explain why in a way that people here would understand. But anyway, the whole point is that from my experience of having actually left the church life is better, much, much better.

Of course, I wouldn't advocate leaving the church just so you can find out for yourself. However, I would suggest that you reconsider your assumptions. When you learn to discern what you really know from what you believe, you have a great deal more ability to comprehend truth. That is a benefit for everyone.

e-eye2.0
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by e-eye2.0 »

brlenox wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:37 am In the interest of maintaining a record should anything happen to the source here is a reply to the original post:
One thought on ““…Bringing to Light all the Hidden Things…” ~D&C 123:13”

Anonymous

August 15, 2017 at 4:57 pm


There are so many things that need to be brought into the light and hopefully this is the beginning of a different kind of movement – a movement of integrity, accountability and a return to God. The problem I have with the restoration movement is it is so elitist … and filled with fear that if you don’t take the covenant you will not be protected on this land. There is a belief in the restoration movement that the LDS gentiles are more favored in God’s eyes and that is why a covenant is being offered. Fiddlesticks! My own experience with David, is that he says one thing and then he flip-flops … that is a pattern in his leadership.

As far as mistakes and deception, Joseph made mistakes and was deceived many times, as have all the servants of God been and as we all are at times. But he owned up to them, as did other prophets of other dispensations. I cannot and will not take a covenant that is offered by a mortal man who claims to be the David Servant. I do not believe he is. He has proclaimed this title of Davidic Servant as belonging to him to many of his closest friends and has now made it known to all of us via his new name. Because he does not fit Isaiah’s description of the last days Davidic Servant, I see that David (Denver) is a false or fallen Servant. Though there is much truth in what he writes, there is also much deception. His continual flip-flopping on matters should be a concern for all who follow him.

Thank you Thompsons, Turley, Olsen and Coss for being brave enough to have your voices heard and recorded. It is time that the movement of all believers in Jesus return to a higher ethical and moral standard and govern by and through the love of God. When we truly love God, we are filled with His love and light and we work hard to rid ourselves of our own carnal nature – we want to be accountable in all things. When we are filled with God’s light and love we see others the way God does and it allows us to have better discernment and a desire to serve others. We are no longer motivated by our own carnal desires. I have never resonated with the restoration movement because it keeps people in the past … it is time to go forward … it is time to let go of false traditions and not rely on the arm of flesh but only the Arm of God … Trust Him, Believe Him, Worship Him and none other. This restoration movement seems to worship Denver and Joseph … just like the Jews worshipping Abraham and Moses. They were not able to discern the Savior because of idolatry of past prophets. It is time to stop the idolatry and return to Him, the God of all of us. Until you can let go of your idolatry of leaders and past prophets, you will be precluded from entering Zion.

Have you ever wondered why Denver switched from teaching and writing about parting the veil to restoration and Zion? When one is focused on Jesus and being like Him, you become Christ-like and become a Zion person. Concentrating on the restoration and Zion is a rather diabolical in nature because you are no longer centered and focused on Jesus and therefore cannot become Zion. How incredibly devious is Satan to have you believe you are concentrating on something good but you miss out on the end-result – receiving your Second Comforter and being like Him. Then you are a Zion people.
Thanks yes I just read this and was going to post about it -

So.... I was reading the comment below on this article and anonymous states that Denver believes he is the Davidic Servant. - Anybody else know of this as it's the first time I have heard it, but I don't follow this as much as I use to.

"I cannot and will not take a covenant that is offered by a mortal man who claims to be the David Servant. I do not believe he is. He has proclaimed this title of Davidic Servant as belonging to him to many of his closest friends and has now made it known to all of us via his new name. Because he does not fit Isaiah’s description of the last days Davidic Servant, I see that David (Denver) is a false or fallen Servant. Though there is much truth in what he writes, there is also much deception. His continual flip-flopping on matters should be a concern for all who follow him."

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Rose Garden
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by Rose Garden »

Denver shared a revelation he received in which the Lord gave him the name David as a new name. Previous to that, many people in the movement have expressed their belief to me that he is the Davidic servant. I don't know of anyone who claimed he personally shared that with them.

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Mark
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by Mark »

e-eye2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 12:19 pm
brlenox wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:37 am In the interest of maintaining a record should anything happen to the source here is a reply to the original post:
One thought on ““…Bringing to Light all the Hidden Things…” ~D&C 123:13”

Anonymous

August 15, 2017 at 4:57 pm


There are so many things that need to be brought into the light and hopefully this is the beginning of a different kind of movement – a movement of integrity, accountability and a return to God. The problem I have with the restoration movement is it is so elitist … and filled with fear that if you don’t take the covenant you will not be protected on this land. There is a belief in the restoration movement that the LDS gentiles are more favored in God’s eyes and that is why a covenant is being offered. Fiddlesticks! My own experience with David, is that he says one thing and then he flip-flops … that is a pattern in his leadership.

As far as mistakes and deception, Joseph made mistakes and was deceived many times, as have all the servants of God been and as we all are at times. But he owned up to them, as did other prophets of other dispensations. I cannot and will not take a covenant that is offered by a mortal man who claims to be the David Servant. I do not believe he is. He has proclaimed this title of Davidic Servant as belonging to him to many of his closest friends and has now made it known to all of us via his new name. Because he does not fit Isaiah’s description of the last days Davidic Servant, I see that David (Denver) is a false or fallen Servant. Though there is much truth in what he writes, there is also much deception. His continual flip-flopping on matters should be a concern for all who follow him.

Thank you Thompsons, Turley, Olsen and Coss for being brave enough to have your voices heard and recorded. It is time that the movement of all believers in Jesus return to a higher ethical and moral standard and govern by and through the love of God. When we truly love God, we are filled with His love and light and we work hard to rid ourselves of our own carnal nature – we want to be accountable in all things. When we are filled with God’s light and love we see others the way God does and it allows us to have better discernment and a desire to serve others. We are no longer motivated by our own carnal desires. I have never resonated with the restoration movement because it keeps people in the past … it is time to go forward … it is time to let go of false traditions and not rely on the arm of flesh but only the Arm of God … Trust Him, Believe Him, Worship Him and none other. This restoration movement seems to worship Denver and Joseph … just like the Jews worshipping Abraham and Moses. They were not able to discern the Savior because of idolatry of past prophets. It is time to stop the idolatry and return to Him, the God of all of us. Until you can let go of your idolatry of leaders and past prophets, you will be precluded from entering Zion.

Have you ever wondered why Denver switched from teaching and writing about parting the veil to restoration and Zion? When one is focused on Jesus and being like Him, you become Christ-like and become a Zion person. Concentrating on the restoration and Zion is a rather diabolical in nature because you are no longer centered and focused on Jesus and therefore cannot become Zion. How incredibly devious is Satan to have you believe you are concentrating on something good but you miss out on the end-result – receiving your Second Comforter and being like Him. Then you are a Zion people.
Thanks yes I just read this and was going to post about it -

So.... I was reading the comment below on this article and anonymous states that Denver believes he is the Davidic Servant. - Anybody else know of this as it's the first time I have heard it, but I don't follow this as much as I use to.

"I cannot and will not take a covenant that is offered by a mortal man who claims to be the David Servant. I do not believe he is. He has proclaimed this title of Davidic Servant as belonging to him to many of his closest friends and has now made it known to all of us via his new name. Because he does not fit Isaiah’s description of the last days Davidic Servant, I see that David (Denver) is a false or fallen Servant. Though there is much truth in what he writes, there is also much deception. His continual flip-flopping on matters should be a concern for all who follow him."

Harmston got the women and the money by setting himself up as a light. He was the reincarnated Prophet Joseph ordained by Moses. Why am I not surprised to see Snuffer take on last days glory and honor. Are people really this stupid??? @-)

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AI2.0
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by AI2.0 »

I found this on a comment section, I thought it was interesting as it confirms that there are many in the remnant movement who may disagree with the decision of the 15 women, as they accept polygamy, they may also accept John Doe's explanation of why he can have sexual relations with many women; The commenter points out this dilemna in response to a remnant follower who doesn't believe the Remnant accepts polygamy--She can't speak for the group, because they are so loosely knit. I don't think remnant people have dealt
with this yet.
http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/denver-s ... t-movement

To the polygamy question, I'm sure it is hard to hear a narrative that doesn't represent you. I understand this. However, since yesterday I've been contacted by several polygamist Remnant believers. I am being told a different story than the one you are presenting here. I think you might be surprised at how many that are attracted to the Remnant movement are also attracted to the Principle or the Fullness. So while this might not match up with your experience, I'm surprised to hear you speak about this movement as if it's one, giant monolith. It's not, which is why it's so popular and speaks to so many. The "interjection" that you say is uncalled for, is actually a factual statement based on the desire by some believers to update, change, dismantle, and incorporate plurality into the understanding of the Gospel. If that makes you uncomfortable, I am sorry- but as is stated by Snuffer and many others- one person does not speak for all.

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Arenera
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by Arenera »

AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 12:46 pm I found this on a comment section, I thought it was interesting as it confirms that there are many in the remnant movement who may disagree with the decision of the 15 women, as they accept polygamy, they may also accept John Doe's explanation of why he can have sexual relations with many women; The commenter points out this dilemna in response to a remnant follower who doesn't believe the Remnant accepts polygamy--She can't speak for the group, because they are so loosely knit. I don't think remnant people have dealt
with this yet.
http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/denver-s ... t-movement

To the polygamy question, I'm sure it is hard to hear a narrative that doesn't represent you. I understand this. However, since yesterday I've been contacted by several polygamist Remnant believers. I am being told a different story than the one you are presenting here. I think you might be surprised at how many that are attracted to the Remnant movement are also attracted to the Principle or the Fullness. So while this might not match up with your experience, I'm surprised to hear you speak about this movement as if it's one, giant monolith. It's not, which is why it's so popular and speaks to so many. The "interjection" that you say is uncalled for, is actually a factual statement based on the desire by some believers to update, change, dismantle, and incorporate plurality into the understanding of the Gospel. If that makes you uncomfortable, I am sorry- but as is stated by Snuffer and many others- one person does not speak for all.
If one person doesn't speak for all, why do they listen to Denver? Since Denver doesn't like polygamy, why are some of his followers pursuing plural relationships? John Doe was/in a high position, what about his Jane Doe's?

Finrock
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by Finrock »

Arenera wrote: August 15th, 2017, 1:20 pm
AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 12:46 pm I found this on a comment section, I thought it was interesting as it confirms that there are many in the remnant movement who may disagree with the decision of the 15 women, as they accept polygamy, they may also accept John Doe's explanation of why he can have sexual relations with many women; The commenter points out this dilemna in response to a remnant follower who doesn't believe the Remnant accepts polygamy--She can't speak for the group, because they are so loosely knit. I don't think remnant people have dealt
with this yet.
http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/denver-s ... t-movement

To the polygamy question, I'm sure it is hard to hear a narrative that doesn't represent you. I understand this. However, since yesterday I've been contacted by several polygamist Remnant believers. I am being told a different story than the one you are presenting here. I think you might be surprised at how many that are attracted to the Remnant movement are also attracted to the Principle or the Fullness. So while this might not match up with your experience, I'm surprised to hear you speak about this movement as if it's one, giant monolith. It's not, which is why it's so popular and speaks to so many. The "interjection" that you say is uncalled for, is actually a factual statement based on the desire by some believers to update, change, dismantle, and incorporate plurality into the understanding of the Gospel. If that makes you uncomfortable, I am sorry- but as is stated by Snuffer and many others- one person does not speak for all.
If one person doesn't speak for all, why do they listen to Denver? Since Denver doesn't like polygamy, why are some of his followers pursuing plural relationships? John Doe was/in a high position, what about his Jane Doe's?
Their structure isn't the same as the LDS Church. Denver is respected as a prophet but if they are to be true to their convictions they are not beholden to what Denver says. Its not like in the LDS Church where if you disagree with the President of the Church you are considered being apostate. Btw, the early LDS Church use to be less about one person having all the power or one person who can trump all other voices. Things were done by common consent and there were multiple "heads" with equal standing. Power was more distributed. This consolidation of power and influence came later in LDS history after the death of Joseph Smith.

-Finrock

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Arenera
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by Arenera »

Finrock wrote: August 15th, 2017, 1:25 pm
Arenera wrote: August 15th, 2017, 1:20 pm
AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 12:46 pm I found this on a comment section, I thought it was interesting as it confirms that there are many in the remnant movement who may disagree with the decision of the 15 women, as they accept polygamy, they may also accept John Doe's explanation of why he can have sexual relations with many women; The commenter points out this dilemna in response to a remnant follower who doesn't believe the Remnant accepts polygamy--She can't speak for the group, because they are so loosely knit. I don't think remnant people have dealt
with this yet.
http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/denver-s ... t-movement

To the polygamy question, I'm sure it is hard to hear a narrative that doesn't represent you. I understand this. However, since yesterday I've been contacted by several polygamist Remnant believers. I am being told a different story than the one you are presenting here. I think you might be surprised at how many that are attracted to the Remnant movement are also attracted to the Principle or the Fullness. So while this might not match up with your experience, I'm surprised to hear you speak about this movement as if it's one, giant monolith. It's not, which is why it's so popular and speaks to so many. The "interjection" that you say is uncalled for, is actually a factual statement based on the desire by some believers to update, change, dismantle, and incorporate plurality into the understanding of the Gospel. If that makes you uncomfortable, I am sorry- but as is stated by Snuffer and many others- one person does not speak for all.
If one person doesn't speak for all, why do they listen to Denver? Since Denver doesn't like polygamy, why are some of his followers pursuing plural relationships? John Doe was/in a high position, what about his Jane Doe's?
Their structure isn't the same as the LDS Church. Denver is respected as a prophet but if they are to be true to their convictions they are not beholden to what Denver says. Its not like in the LDS Church where if you disagree with the President of the Church you are considered being apostate. Btw, the early LDS Church use to be less about one person having all the power or one person who can trump all other voices. Things were done by common consent and there were multiple "heads" with equal standing. Power was more distributed. This consolidation of power and influence came later in LDS history after the death of Joseph Smith.

-Finrock
According to the Remnant presentation in Sunstone, polygamy is out. So, John Doe's actions should be egregious to the movement.
The current, so-called “Remnant” movement is a mystery to many. Originating with the works of Denver Snuffer, this grass-roots movement has captured the attention of all types of Mormons, as well as the ire of many LDS Church leaders. It seeks to reclaim what’s been lost since the days of Joseph Smith, and continue the work
he started; it also rejects polygamy and church hierarchy. In this panel presentation and Q&A, four active participants in the movement will present the facts, dispel the myths, and outline the ideas driving this unique approach to the gospel.
Stay with the Good Ship Zion!

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AI2.0
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by AI2.0 »

Arenera wrote: August 15th, 2017, 1:20 pm
AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 12:46 pm I found this on a comment section, I thought it was interesting as it confirms that there are many in the remnant movement who may disagree with the decision of the 15 women, as they accept polygamy, they may also accept John Doe's explanation of why he can have sexual relations with many women; The commenter points out this dilemna in response to a remnant follower who doesn't believe the Remnant accepts polygamy--She can't speak for the group, because they are so loosely knit. I don't think remnant people have dealt
with this yet.
http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/denver-s ... t-movement

To the polygamy question, I'm sure it is hard to hear a narrative that doesn't represent you. I understand this. However, since yesterday I've been contacted by several polygamist Remnant believers. I am being told a different story than the one you are presenting here. I think you might be surprised at how many that are attracted to the Remnant movement are also attracted to the Principle or the Fullness. So while this might not match up with your experience, I'm surprised to hear you speak about this movement as if it's one, giant monolith. It's not, which is why it's so popular and speaks to so many. The "interjection" that you say is uncalled for, is actually a factual statement based on the desire by some believers to update, change, dismantle, and incorporate plurality into the understanding of the Gospel. If that makes you uncomfortable, I am sorry- but as is stated by Snuffer and many others- one person does not speak for all.
If one person doesn't speak for all, why do they listen to Denver? Since Denver doesn't like polygamy, why are some of his followers pursuing plural relationships? John Doe was/in a high position, what about his Jane Doe's?
What about his 'jane does'? We don't know anything about them, they are random women he's been sleeping with. Maybe they aren't even remnant people. There is no information on them to even speculate decently.

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AI2.0
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by AI2.0 »

Finrock wrote: August 15th, 2017, 1:25 pm
Arenera wrote: August 15th, 2017, 1:20 pm
AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 12:46 pm I found this on a comment section, I thought it was interesting as it confirms that there are many in the remnant movement who may disagree with the decision of the 15 women, as they accept polygamy, they may also accept John Doe's explanation of why he can have sexual relations with many women; The commenter points out this dilemna in response to a remnant follower who doesn't believe the Remnant accepts polygamy--She can't speak for the group, because they are so loosely knit. I don't think remnant people have dealt
with this yet.
http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/denver-s ... t-movement

To the polygamy question, I'm sure it is hard to hear a narrative that doesn't represent you. I understand this. However, since yesterday I've been contacted by several polygamist Remnant believers. I am being told a different story than the one you are presenting here. I think you might be surprised at how many that are attracted to the Remnant movement are also attracted to the Principle or the Fullness. So while this might not match up with your experience, I'm surprised to hear you speak about this movement as if it's one, giant monolith. It's not, which is why it's so popular and speaks to so many. The "interjection" that you say is uncalled for, is actually a factual statement based on the desire by some believers to update, change, dismantle, and incorporate plurality into the understanding of the Gospel. If that makes you uncomfortable, I am sorry- but as is stated by Snuffer and many others- one person does not speak for all.
If one person doesn't speak for all, why do they listen to Denver? Since Denver doesn't like polygamy, why are some of his followers pursuing plural relationships? John Doe was/in a high position, what about his Jane Doe's?
Their structure isn't the same as the LDS Church. Denver is respected as a prophet but if they are to be true to their convictions they are not beholden to what Denver says. Its not like in the LDS Church where if you disagree with the President of the Church you are considered being apostate. Btw, the early LDS Church use to be less about one person having all the power or one person who can trump all other voices. Things were done by common consent and there were multiple "heads" with equal standing. Power was more distributed. This consolidation of power and influence came later in LDS history after the death of Joseph Smith.

-Finrock
You didn't read the op. The Remnant is in a power struggle right now. Denver gave the guy a 'pass', said he was innocent, then the 15 women council revoked the guy's priesthood. Now the 15 are being pressured to change their ruling to support Denver's. Sounds like some in their community DO think they are beholden to what Denver says and thinks.

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Mark
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Re: Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

Post by Mark »

AI2.0 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 12:46 pm I found this on a comment section, I thought it was interesting as it confirms that there are many in the remnant movement who may disagree with the decision of the 15 women, as they accept polygamy, they may also accept John Doe's explanation of why he can have sexual relations with many women; The commenter points out this dilemna in response to a remnant follower who doesn't believe the Remnant accepts polygamy--She can't speak for the group, because they are so loosely knit. I don't think remnant people have dealt
with this yet.
http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/denver-s ... t-movement

To the polygamy question, I'm sure it is hard to hear a narrative that doesn't represent you. I understand this. However, since yesterday I've been contacted by several polygamist Remnant believers. I am being told a different story than the one you are presenting here. I think you might be surprised at how many that are attracted to the Remnant movement are also attracted to the Principle or the Fullness. So while this might not match up with your experience, I'm surprised to hear you speak about this movement as if it's one, giant monolith. It's not, which is why it's so popular and speaks to so many. The "interjection" that you say is uncalled for, is actually a factual statement based on the desire by some believers to update, change, dismantle, and incorporate plurality into the understanding of the Gospel. If that makes you uncomfortable, I am sorry- but as is stated by Snuffer and many others- one person does not speak for all.

After Harmston was uncovered as a charlaton and a con artist swindler some of those followers became disenchanted with the TLC movement. It sounds like some of them may have drifted over to the Remnant movement as the flavor of the day. Who knows maybe they will unite to grow their numbers. Might be a perfect marriage. (Or bonded soulmating opportunity) :ymdevil:

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