Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

[Seek the Truth]

So only Denver can receive revelation for the remnant group.

Denver has become what he set out to be against. I can't stop laughing.

[e-eye2.0]

So only Denver can receive revelation for the remnant group.

Denver has become what he set out to be against. I can't stop laughing.

Kind of seems that way to me as well.

Here is my guess that happens -

Those who like the power/leadership will probably stay - that would go against why most left because they didn't want a prophet.

Those who left because they like to live a different lifestyle may stay or go - Revelation saying what is wrong and right will really hinder there flexibility they have been enjoying.

Those who left because of the doctrine of the LDS church may also have issue with new revelation that seems to be coming out.

Some will stay because they just have nowhere else to go.

I have said for years that most of the people leaving the LDS church wouldn't be the greatest bunch to start a new church. Now that it appears the remnant group is organizing some this theory of mine will get put to the test.

[inquirringmind]

In the interest of being fair and balanced, here is what Denver Snuffer said about this matter on his blog today.

Denver Snuffer

Sexual Fidelity

August 16, 2017

There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I.

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

[Rose Garden]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

Thank you for pointing that out. I realize I was hasty in my previous comments. I was assuming the blog entry was accurate. I should know better by now.

[inho]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

Please do share the other view points as it seems as though the author listed 5 people who agreed with her: Ryan Thompson, Ruth Thompson, Melonie Turley, Brad Olsen, Bernadette Coss.

I can see one person having an agenda but when 1/3 of the 15 are up in arms you have a problem.

I found this (http://www.totheremnant.com/2017/08/bri ... light.html):

Several women who recently participated in a women’s council asked me to post the following statement:

It has been discovered that some who profess to seek Zion have taught principles of “bonded soulmates,” “bonded wives,” “first eternal spouse,” or some variation thereof; and/or have participated in secret and false ordinances associated with these ideas. These teachings originate with the same evil being who, “from the days of Cain” authored “a secret combination, and their works were in the dark…and thus the works of darkness began to prevail among all the sons of men.” (Moses 5:51, 55). Since that time, Lucifer has continuously sought to destroy the agency and bring people into bondage.

The man’s accusers have made public claims about this private council, including claims that Denver Snuffer said the following:

• The man in question was “a key contributor” to the scripture project.
• The man in question “had received important revelations concerning the scripture project.”
• Denver also confidently assured the council that [the man] was “innocent.”

We were present during all council proceedings, and assert these public statements are false and were never made by Denver Snuffer. We denounce these attempts to mischaracterize the purposes and results of this council.

This council was not a referendum on the scripture project or Denver Snuffer. It should not be used as such. This was a private action concerning one man who has repented and renounced his prior errors.

So it seems that the members of the council are acknowledging that there has been false doctrine on "bounded soulmates". They only want to make the point that this should not be used as a weapon against Snuffer or the Scriptures project.

Earlier we had the Mormonleaks letter and now this. It seems like the Remnant movement has all kind of people associated with it.

[shadow]

I guess remnant council/courts aren't held in complete confidence.

[AI2.0]

In the interest of being fair and balanced, here is what Denver Snuffer said about this matter on his blog today.

Denver Snuffer

Sexual Fidelity

August 16, 2017

There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I.

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

I believe Denver Snuffer is trying to gain control over something that could harm his precious scripture project and the covenant he's planning for Sept. I think the truth is still not fully known because of the parties involved and their own need to protect what they care about. I bet a lot of them don't want to see their remnant movement's human foibles brought to the harsh light of reality.

I find Snuffer's explanation hard to believe-- As he explains it, the 'poor' man was simply deceived by a wily, manipulative woman who 'taught' him and another, meek, innocent married woman that they were actually married to eachother in another life and so, it's fine if they want to have sex with eachother. yea right. And of course, the man in question never would have come up with any kind of an idea like that...he's pure and righteous, working so hard on the scripture project and receiving revelations from the spirit--which of course, could never have influenced him if he was actually lusting to commit adultery, which there's no question he followed through with, during his time on the project, him needing to be 'rebaptized' again to fix the problem. Such a simple solution to destroying marital vows and wrecking homes--a little dunk in a body of living waters and you are good to go in Snuffer's remnant, I guess. But, to reiterate--Notice it's the women in Snuffer's version who are responsible for believing and teaching a pernicious false doctrine. John Doe's position and his participation must be preserved, the women are expendable because...that's the easiest way to protect the project--besides this is so much bigger than any of them--this is the 'restoration' that needs 'preserving', no matter the moral cost.

The 'communities' were supposed to be autonomous, led by the spirit and not the 'arm of flesh', and so, they try to police their own--if anyone didn't see this coming, they haven't been watching the remnant much. This is to be expected to have some among the group who will use it to satisfy their lusts and call it 'the mysteries'. But Snuffer wasn't about to let a group of uppity women tarnish his dream, his 'scriptures', so he swooped in to exert his authority--which he's going to do any time he feels HIS work is threatened.

And so, I predict, the women who continue to challenge Snuffer's decision will be silenced and made an example to the group. John Doe will most likely keep his position--at least for now, until after this has blown over and the covenant and scripture project are safely accepted and embraced by the group and Snuffer will have made one thing clear to his followers. He IS the head of this organization, and while he may like to claim he's not in running his Snuffer movement, if they want to stay in the group, members (especially the women among them) had better not cross him again. He gave them the power to 'sustain' the men, but they'd better not make the mistake of thinking that has any real meaning, their 'power' is only what Snuffer allows them to have and if any of them attempt to go up against him again, they'll come to fully understand exactly what their 'place' is within The Denver Snuffer version of the 'restoration'.

[e-eye2.0]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

Please do share the other view points as it seems as though the author listed 5 people who agreed with her: Ryan Thompson, Ruth Thompson, Melonie Turley, Brad Olsen, Bernadette Coss.

I can see one person having an agenda but when 1/3 of the 15 are up in arms you have a problem.

I found this (http://www.totheremnant.com/2017/08/bri ... light.html):

Several women who recently participated in a women’s council asked me to post the following statement:

It has been discovered that some who profess to seek Zion have taught principles of “bonded soulmates,” “bonded wives,” “first eternal spouse,” or some variation thereof; and/or have participated in secret and false ordinances associated with these ideas. These teachings originate with the same evil being who, “from the days of Cain” authored “a secret combination, and their works were in the dark…and thus the works of darkness began to prevail among all the sons of men.” (Moses 5:51, 55). Since that time, Lucifer has continuously sought to destroy the agency and bring people into bondage.

The man’s accusers have made public claims about this private council, including claims that Denver Snuffer said the following:

• The man in question was “a key contributor” to the scripture project.
• The man in question “had received important revelations concerning the scripture project.”
• Denver also confidently assured the council that [the man] was “innocent.”

We were present during all council proceedings, and assert these public statements are false and were never made by Denver Snuffer. We denounce these attempts to mischaracterize the purposes and results of this council.

This council was not a referendum on the scripture project or Denver Snuffer. It should not be used as such. This was a private action concerning one man who has repented and renounced his prior errors.

So it seems that the members of the council are acknowledging that there has been false doctrine on "bounded soulmates". They only want to make the point that this should not be used as a weapon against Snuffer or the Scriptures project.

Earlier we had the Mormonleaks letter and now this. It seems like the Remnant movement has all kind of people associated with it.

Thanks for sharing.

Major damage control on this - I would be trying to fix this if i was David or I mean Denver Snuffer as well, as it destroys a lot of credibility of the new revelation which his non church will be based on i am assuming.

The irony in this scenario is almost unreal. So hear you have the leader (I am just calling it what he is) of the remnant who used the history of the church to discredit the church which caused his excommunication and eventual formation of his new church (I am also just calling it what it is). Denver now is part of a serious allegation where it calls into question the validity of the scripture and revelation that is coming forth. Can you imagine if this was oh say about 180-200 years ago and you were Joseph Smith, Brigham Young trying building the foundation of the church and false accusations flew left and right - some accusations recorded some not recorded, some lies, some stories where information was left out or from a different view point. - Is it a surprise that the leader of the LDS church say not to get hung up on the history of the church where we don't know all the facts?

Can you imagine the crap the church has to deal with on a daily basis.

[e-eye2.0]

In the interest of being fair and balanced, here is what Denver Snuffer said about this matter on his blog today.

Denver Snuffer

Sexual Fidelity

August 16, 2017

There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I.

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

I believe Denver Snuffer is trying to gain control over something that could harm his precious scripture project and the covenant he's planning for Sept. I think the truth is still not fully known because of the parties involved and their own need to protect what they care about. I bet a lot of them don't want to see their remnant movement's human foibles brought to the harsh light of reality.

I find Snuffer's explanation hard to believe-- As he explains it, the 'poor' man was simply deceived by a wily, manipulative woman who 'taught' him and another, meek, innocent married woman that they were actually married to eachother in another life and so, it's fine if they want to have sex with eachother. yea right. And of course, the man in question never would have come up with any kind of an idea like that...he's pure and righteous, working so hard on the scripture project and receiving revelations from the spirit--which of course, could never have influenced him if he was actually lusting to commit adultery, which there's no question he followed through with, during his time on the project, him needing to be 'rebaptized' again to fix the problem. Such a simple solution to destroying marital vows and wrecking homes--a little dunk in a body of living waters and you are good to go in Snuffer's remnant, I guess. But, to reiterate--Notice it's the women in Snuffer's version who are responsible for believing and teaching a pernicious false doctrine. John Doe's position and his participation must be preserved, the women are expendable because...that's the easiest way to protect the project--besides this is so much bigger than any of them--this is the 'restoration' that needs 'preserving', no matter the moral cost.

The 'communities' were supposed to be autonomous, led by the spirit and not the 'arm of flesh', and so, they try to police their own--if anyone didn't see this coming, they haven't been watching the remnant much. This is to be expected to have some among the group who will use it to satisfy their lusts and call it 'the mysteries'. But Snuffer wasn't about to let a group of uppity women tarnish his dream, his 'scriptures', so he swooped in to exert his authority--which he's going to do any time he feels HIS work is threatened.

And so, I predict, the women who continue to challenge Snuffer's decision will be silenced and made an example to the group. John Doe will most likely keep his position--at least for now, until after this has blown over and the covenant and scripture project are safely accepted and embraced by the group and Snuffer will have made one thing clear to his followers. He IS the head of this organization, and while he may like to claim he's not in running his Snuffer movement, if they want to stay in the group, members (especially the women among them) had better not cross him again. He gave them the power to 'sustain' the men, but they'd better not make the mistake of thinking that has any real meaning, their 'power' is only what Snuffer allows them to have and if any of them attempt to go up against him again, they'll come to fully understand exactly what their 'place' is within The Denver Snuffer version of the 'restoration'.

Yeah, I would like to schedule a re-baptism for this week and maybe again next week depending on if the harlot next door is able to dupe me again into sexual relations. - John Doe

I am starting to wonder if this was really a court of love?

Is it possible that Denver wrongly re-instated this member forfeiting his keys, and if so, who now has the keys? Do the keys now by default go back to the LDS church?

[AI2.0]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

I asked if you'd share more on this but you've chosen not to, so why should we simply believe a statement from you, let alone think it should should mean we believe you over what was said by the other side, who clearly gave us a lot more information on which to judge it.

For one thing, you say 'women who were present'--were these women part of the council that made the decision to revoke his certificate? If that's the case, then was it a simple majority needed to do this? You need to tell us, because we don't know how this works in Snuffer's communities.

'Interpretation' means perception. Does that mean that these two women don't challenge the evidence that was presented or what Snuffer claimed was the case? Because there is discrepancy there--the blog says that the man was teaching and acting out (for a while it would seem) the soul bonding doctrine and Snuffer says a woman taught the soul bonding doctrine to the man and a 'married woman' who then acted on it. So which is accurate?

If you want to interject and bring more information in to help explain this, that's great, but simply making a statement and thinking that changes things, doesn't really change things, unless you are willing to back it up.

[Arenera]

In the interest of being fair and balanced, here is what Denver Snuffer said about this matter on his blog today.

Denver Snuffer

Sexual Fidelity

August 16, 2017

There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I.

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

I believe Denver Snuffer is trying to gain control over something that could harm his precious scripture project and the covenant he's planning for Sept. I think the truth is still not fully known because of the parties involved and their own need to protect what they care about. I bet a lot of them don't want to see their remnant movement's human foibles brought to the harsh light of reality.

I find Snuffer's explanation hard to believe-- As he explains it, the 'poor' man was simply deceived by a wily, manipulative woman who 'taught' him and another, meek, innocent married woman that they were actually married to eachother in another life and so, it's fine if they want to have sex with eachother. yea right. And of course, the man in question never would have come up with any kind of an idea like that...he's pure and righteous, working so hard on the scripture project and receiving revelations from the spirit--which of course, could never have influenced him if he was actually lusting to commit adultery, which there's no question he followed through with, during his time on the project, him needing to be 'rebaptized' again to fix the problem. Such a simple solution to destroying marital vows and wrecking homes--a little dunk in a body of living waters and you are good to go in Snuffer's remnant, I guess. But, to reiterate--Notice it's the women in Snuffer's version who are responsible for believing and teaching a pernicious false doctrine. John Doe's position and his participation must be preserved, the women are expendable because...that's the easiest way to protect the project--besides this is so much bigger than any of them--this is the 'restoration' that needs 'preserving', no matter the moral cost.

The 'communities' were supposed to be autonomous, led by the spirit and not the 'arm of flesh', and so, they try to police their own--if anyone didn't see this coming, they haven't been watching the remnant much. This is to be expected to have some among the group who will use it to satisfy their lusts and call it 'the mysteries'. But Snuffer wasn't about to let a group of uppity women tarnish his dream, his 'scriptures', so he swooped in to exert his authority--which he's going to do any time he feels HIS work is threatened.

And so, I predict, the women who continue to challenge Snuffer's decision will be silenced and made an example to the group. John Doe will most likely keep his position--at least for now, until after this has blown over and the covenant and scripture project are safely accepted and embraced by the group and Snuffer will have made one thing clear to his followers. He IS the head of this organization, and while he may like to claim he's not in running his Snuffer movement, if they want to stay in the group, members (especially the women among them) had better not cross him again. He gave them the power to 'sustain' the men, but they'd better not make the mistake of thinking that has any real meaning, their 'power' is only what Snuffer allows them to have and if any of them attempt to go up against him again, they'll come to fully understand exactly what their 'place' is within The Denver Snuffer version of the 'restoration'.

I can see why you go by the ultimate most annoying person on the forum, A.120. You crush the dissidents and force Denver to placate the remnants with a blog post.

Why do they let the John Doe's of the world get alway with serious transgression? Is there no compassion for the woman who is a soul mate?

[lemuel]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

I asked if you'd share more on this but you've chosen not to, so why should we simply believe a statement from you, let alone think it should should mean we believe you over what was said by the other side, who clearly gave us a lot more information on which to judge it.

For one thing, you say 'women who were present'--were these women part of the council that made the decision to revoke his certificate? If that's the case, then was it a simple majority needed to do this? You need to tell us, because we don't know how this works in Snuffer's communities.

'Interpretation' means perception. Does that mean that these two women don't challenge the evidence that was presented or what Snuffer claimed was the case? Because there is discrepancy there--the blog says that the man was teaching and acting out (for a while it would seem) the soul bonding doctrine and Snuffer says a woman taught the soul bonding doctrine to the man and a 'married woman' who then acted on it. So which is accurate?

If you want to interject and bring more information in to help explain this, that's great, but simply making a statement and thinking that changes things, doesn't really change things, unless you are willing to back it up.

From what I've heard (third hand, so take with grain of salt) is that a woman taught the man the bonded mates crap, and apparently he bought it. Hard to hear the still small voice over the raging roar of hormones I guess.

I think the council that revokes the ability to use priesthood in a fellowship is entirely women. I can't remember if it's supposed to be unanimous or a majority.

[AI2.0]

This is a comment from "Bringing hidden things to light"

"From Denver: “I hope those who are opposed to this will allow those willing to enter into a covenant to go on in peace. We allow all others from any other of the various sects of Mormonism, to depart from us in peace. I hope that those willing to adopt the covenant are likewise given the opportunity to depart in peace.” http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/ ... t-edit.pdf

To go in peace would entail walking away without casting stones, right? Bullying via name calling or negatively labeling those walking away would be the opposite of departing in peace, yes?

From Denver: “In the end, it is better if only a very few receive covenant status who are united in mind and heart than to have a larger body that includes the FEARFUL, the DOUBTFUL and the SKEPTICAL.” http://denversnuffer.com/2017/04/covenant/"

So Denver is stepping in and taking control of his 'Remnant movement'. It actually didn't take that long for his 'communities' non church to turn into a full blown church, with Snuffer as it's prophet. The Remnant is not what it was initially billed as, if you wish to be a part of the Remnant, you need to conform to Denver Snuffer's views--and those who need to 'depart' are those who don't want to accept all of Snuffer's teachings. With this, the polygamists and the ones who want to be able to have relations outside marriage are the first to receive their 'walking papers'. Those who challenge his teachings will be the next in line to be asked to leave because he needs only those faithful to him.

It will be interesting if many of his members will remember how they fought the whole 'arm of flesh' and 'don't let anyone get between you and God' stuff, and you receive revelation from God directly, God tells you what's right--because it's obvious Denver Snuffer has positioned himself between them and their 'God'.

And this is the irony of it--Whether the man taught 'Soul bonding' or it was a woman who's supposedly responsible for teaching 'Soul bonding'? Snuffer's whole premise was that you are taught by God, not men, NO MEN on earth can tell you you are wrong-- so how can he now attempt to teach or tell any of his 'followers' that their 'revelations' are wrong if they don't conform to his 'revelations'? And there you have the dilemna that was sure to come to light with this whole movement.

[e-eye2.0]

This is a comment from "Bringing hidden things to light"

"From Denver: “I hope those who are opposed to this will allow those willing to enter into a covenant to go on in peace. We allow all others from any other of the various sects of Mormonism, to depart from us in peace. I hope that those willing to adopt the covenant are likewise given the opportunity to depart in peace.” http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/ ... t-edit.pdf

To go in peace would entail walking away without casting stones, right? Bullying via name calling or negatively labeling those walking away would be the opposite of departing in peace, yes?

From Denver: “In the end, it is better if only a very few receive covenant status who are united in mind and heart than to have a larger body that includes the FEARFUL, the DOUBTFUL and the SKEPTICAL.” http://denversnuffer.com/2017/04/covenant/"

So Denver is stepping in and taking control of his 'Remnant movement'. It actually didn't take that long for his 'communities' non church to turn into a full blown church, with Snuffer as it's prophet. The Remnant is not what it was initially billed as, if you wish to be a part of the Remnant, you need to conform to Denver Snuffer's views--and those who need to 'depart' are those who don't want to accept all of Snuffer's teachings. With this, the polygamists and the ones who want to be able to have relations outside marriage are the first to receive their 'walking papers'. Those who challenge his teachings will be the next in line to be asked to leave because he needs only those faithful to him.

It will be interesting if many of his members will remember how they fought the whole 'arm of flesh' and 'don't let anyone get between you and God' stuff, and you receive revelation from God directly, God tells you what's right--because it's obvious Denver Snuffer has positioned himself between them and their 'God'.

And this is the irony of it--Whether the man taught 'Soul bonding' or it was a woman who's supposedly responsible for teaching 'Soul bonding'? Snuffer's whole premise was that you are taught by God, not men, NO MEN on earth can tell you you are wrong-- so how can he now attempt to teach or tell any of his 'followers' that their 'revelations' are wrong if they don't conform to his 'revelations'? And there you have the dilemna that was sure to come to light with this whole movement.

I have mentioned many times I have family in this movement. I don't keep in contact with them really though. My sisters family were true blue mormons for years and then one thing lead to another and they joined this movement, pulling their kid off of his mission half way through and they all pretty much joined - sad. My brother-in-law has been in the higher ups - I don't know if he has been helping on the new doctrine but he was once considered one of the big 5 which was a group of guys that were at the top of this non layered movement. My brother-in-law filed for divorce from my sister I think about 18 months or so ago as she ended up calling BS on everything including Denver Snuffer and among other things they split - I don't even know if the divorce is finalized it's been an ongoing process. My sister now boarderlines atheism.

About a year ago I heard from my sister, when their son was marrying the daughter of another high up remnant leader that they were going to do the temple ceremony on their marriage just as we do in our church. My other "active" sister who was invited to the wedding said it was just a civil marriage so nothing happened other than some scriptures were shared on why it was okay to drink and just about everyone was drinking wine at the wedding.

I also hear around that time that the formation of the church was coming but I didn't get a lot of details on it. I kind of blew it off as it's been a year but it now sounds like things are now picking up steam to where there will at least be a leader. I think Denver is playing this all out like the original church, little by little he will morph it into a church - he has to - it's been silly that he has been denying any such thing when we all know that God calls prophets and establishes order.

Satan never supports his and all the people who realize they have been duped not only do they not have the original covenants that were true and from God but they don't even have a fellowship or support in their wayward ways - they are going to have to either be left out to dry or double down on a movement that will look much like the one they left and be worse off from where they started -

From what I have seen some of these people hated authority or wished they had it so those who have it in the new church will stick around and those who hated it will move on.

[AI2.0]

This is a comment from "Bringing hidden things to light"

"From Denver: “I hope those who are opposed to this will allow those willing to enter into a covenant to go on in peace. We allow all others from any other of the various sects of Mormonism, to depart from us in peace. I hope that those willing to adopt the covenant are likewise given the opportunity to depart in peace.” http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/ ... t-edit.pdf

To go in peace would entail walking away without casting stones, right? Bullying via name calling or negatively labeling those walking away would be the opposite of departing in peace, yes?

From Denver: “In the end, it is better if only a very few receive covenant status who are united in mind and heart than to have a larger body that includes the FEARFUL, the DOUBTFUL and the SKEPTICAL.” http://denversnuffer.com/2017/04/covenant/"

So Denver is stepping in and taking control of his 'Remnant movement'. It actually didn't take that long for his 'communities' non church to turn into a full blown church, with Snuffer as it's prophet. The Remnant is not what it was initially billed as, if you wish to be a part of the Remnant, you need to conform to Denver Snuffer's views--and those who need to 'depart' are those who don't want to accept all of Snuffer's teachings. With this, the polygamists and the ones who want to be able to have relations outside marriage are the first to receive their 'walking papers'. Those who challenge his teachings will be the next in line to be asked to leave because he needs only those faithful to him.

It will be interesting if many of his members will remember how they fought the whole 'arm of flesh' and 'don't let anyone get between you and God' stuff, and you receive revelation from God directly, God tells you what's right--because it's obvious Denver Snuffer has positioned himself between them and their 'God'.

And this is the irony of it--Whether the man taught 'Soul bonding' or it was a woman who's supposedly responsible for teaching 'Soul bonding'? Snuffer's whole premise was that you are taught by God, not men, NO MEN on earth can tell you you are wrong-- so how can he now attempt to teach or tell any of his 'followers' that their 'revelations' are wrong if they don't conform to his 'revelations'? And there you have the dilemna that was sure to come to light with this whole movement.

I have mentioned many times I have family in this movement. I don't keep in contact with them really though. My sisters family were true blue mormons for years and then one thing lead to another and they joined this movement, pulling their kid off of his mission half way through and they all pretty much joined - sad. My brother-in-law has been in the higher ups - I don't know if he has been helping on the new doctrine but he was once considered one of the big 5 which was a group of guys that were at the top of this non layered movement. My brother-in-law filed for divorce from my sister I think about 18 months or so ago as she ended up calling BS on everything including Denver Snuffer and among other things they split - I don't even know if the divorce is finalized it's been an ongoing process. My sister now boarderlines atheism.

About a year ago I heard from my sister, when their son was marrying the daughter of another high up remnant leader that they were going to do the temple ceremony on their marriage just as we do in our church. My other "active" sister who was invited to the wedding said it was just a civil marriage so nothing happened other than some scriptures were shared on why it was okay to drink and just about everyone was drinking wine at the wedding.

I also hear around that time that the formation of the church was coming but I didn't get a lot of details on it. I kind of blew it off as it's been a year but it now sounds like things are now picking up steam to where there will at least be a leader. I think Denver is playing this all out like the original church, little by little he will morph it into a church - he has to - it's been silly that he has been denying any such thing when we all know that God calls prophets and establishes order.

Satan never supports his and all the people who realize they have been duped not only do they not have the original covenants that were true and from God but they don't even have a fellowship or support in their wayward ways - they are going to have to either be left out to dry or double down on a movement that will look much like the one they left and be worse off from where they started -

From what I have seen some of these people hated authority or wished they had it so those who have it in the new church will stick around and those who hated it will move on.

Yes, I remembered when you told us about your sister and her family, I'm so sorry that her family was not able to survive intact. Such a tragedy for some of these people, the damage it does to them and their loved ones.

I really think this is such a watershed moment for the Remnant-- those who are unsure of Denver Snuffer and his movement should take note; As I've been discussing this over the years, the main teaching his proponents have always stressed is that we aren't supposed to allow any man to get between God and us, we should go directly to God to receive personal revelation. I have often asked 'how do you know if it's God who is revealing this to you and not some other spirit?" a good question, I thought, but one that was never answered adequately. So here we see a situation where apparently some Remnant members claim a personal revelation of a teaching which is at odds with what Denver Snuffer and others believe--but when they act on their 'revelation', they are made to denounce, desist and repent of that 'revelation'.

Some of these people have claimed revelations that they should stop paying tithing, or that they should get rebaptized, or drink wine, or coffee and when the 'revelation' is something that is 'Snuffer approved', it's fine. But in this instance, the people received 'revelation' which is offensive to Snuffer (and to most of us too, I'd say) and so, is that what determined that it was false? As I see it, now in the Remnant movement, the standard has been created that if the 'revelation' does not conform to Denver Snuffer's views, it is false. I just wonder how many of the Remnant people are prepared to now weigh their personal revelations on the scale of what Snuffer feels is false or true. Mainstream LDS--we don't have a problem with this, we already 'follow the prophet' as for what is morally right and wrong, but the Snuffer people have often ridiculed LDS for this--so now, is this something they accept? Do Remnant people now agree with the slogan 'Follow the Prophet"--as long as that prophet is Denver Snuffer?

[inquirringmind]

This is interesting.

BRINGINGTOLIGHTHIDDENTHINGS
August 17, 2017 at 10:50 pm
Anonymous, you are correct, I was only there to give my witness. I received texts of proceedings throughout the council, including Denver’s statements. All of the witnesses spoke after the council for hours with who were present as well as one of the organizers. The statements did not vary from each account. The trial was recorded. If I have spoken untrue – please state specifically what I have said so I can openly correct the inaccuracy.

As to the fellowship for John Doe – The Answer to the Covenant was posted hours before the Women’s council. It contained new requirements on how to hold a council. Had the Answer to the Covenant been voted on and accepted by the fellowships? Is it currently accepted and in place? The women organized it according to the rules that have been in place as laid out in Preserving the Restoration.

The family member involved was his wife and was not on the Women’s council. She was on the phone and I consider that present. She did not give a statement nor a witness. After he had lied about important facts, she was phoned. She asked him to please tell the Women’s council the truth, which, he then did. Again, I have not ever intended to spread a falsehood. If I am saying something incorrectly – please don’t get angry with me. Show me what I am saying that is false so I can be corrected or clarify. I have no desire to lie or spread anything false.

John Doe only confessed when his wife asked him to please tell the truth. That does not demonstrate repentance to me (nor to the witnesses). This council wasn’t about bonded sole-mates. It was about a pattern of deception and misconduct John Doe continued in committing for years. Please do not say I haven’t forgiven John Doe. You do not know me nor my heart and that is untrue and unkind. My husband and I forgave him years ago. We reached out to him when we saw the false direction he was going, we have prayed for him by name and have continued to do so. His heart is good and he has the potential to be a great warrior for the Lord. I am sorry you view me as an accuser, unwilling to forgive and forget, contentious and like Satan. You are welcome in my home and I am willing to be as transparent as possible. I don’t know you but I know you are fighting for truth. I am too. We see things differently in this situation and for that I am sorry.

What Denver wrote on his blog is partial and limited. I wrote Denver August 3rd asking him to clarify what John Doe’s “revelations” and “key contributions” were. I quoted him and he responded that the communications would be posted. He did not take that opportunity to correct my email nor in his recent post to say that he never said those things. He did correct having never said, “innocent” and we apologized for the possibility of misunderstanding “penitent” with “innocent”. We did not mean to mischaracterize Denver in that way.

I am sorry you feel we are providing staggering darkness. We see things very differently. It sounds like you were one of the Women on the council. If I may ask – why, if he admitted to multiple inappropriate relations in the last six months (and only admitted it after pleading to be honest by his wife who was on the phone), how you consider that repentant?

https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wor ... comment-49

I'm still trying to figure out who's telling the truth here, but there seems to be some discrepancy over whether John Doe had a fellowship from which witnesses familiar with his daily walk could have been drawn, and I've asked for clarification on that.

[Seek the Truth]

No offense, but from the outside this is endlessly hilarious.

[Seek the Truth]

Has Denver ever replied to people pointing out he's crossed everything he said earlier?

[Jonesy]

No offense, but from the outside this is endlessly hilarious.

Actually, it's quite sad. I hope we can be more dignified and compassionate in what we observe with this. Hopefully, the people from this movement can look back to the church and see that the keys remain.

Remember that Joseph Smith was:

persecuted by those who ought to have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me (JSH 1:28)

We need to treat those in that movement kindly and reclaim them.

[Seek the Truth]

You are probably right. When I was active here years ago I recall them and man they were some smug people. I'm not sure kindness will reclaim them.

[Jonesy]

You are probably right. When I was active here years ago I recall them and man they were some smug people. I'm not sure kindness will reclaim them.

Kindness helps and can be part of it. But I'm proof that some may be reclaimed.

[Seek the Truth]

That's good to hear. I was unable to log in for a few years, got a new computer and somehow got back in. Not sure if I was banned that whole time or not. I had been banned a number of times, but lose track.

As such, I am not familiar with your story. I couldn't understand the Snuffer movement at all then or now. I have my suspicions but they were very evasive.

[inquirringmind]

I don't know if this is true, but someone just posted this in the comments of bringing hidden things to light.

To all. I am one of three who has been accused of teaching the bonded soul theory. I am on this blog to state I have been misrepresented. The words used in current blogs twisted my involvement in an attempt to redirect any negative focus on the scripture project and covenant. In a brilliant strategy, the bloggers have put forth a theory of John Doe being victimized by a woman who taught him a concept...I have never believed or practiced spiritual wifery. I had a belief that when we are created, we are created in pairs of male/female, which is referred to as soulmates and at some point in their eternal progression they come together as sealed couples. That’s it. Never did i promote adultery or polygamy or spiritual wifery, quite to the contrary. I’ve always fought against it. However, without breaking confidences or divulging names, my role was that I said that I felt he and another person were soulmates. The most stupid thing I could ever do and I’m humiliated that I said it and I will never make that mistake again. But I was not out teaching these concepts. I said something out of order. But I did not force him into action and warned him several times not to. I made a huge mistake but does that mistake rise to the level of victimizing? But it gets even crazier because he himself was telling other married people they were actually bonded to someone else and this was before I ever met him. So how could I possibly be victimizing someone who is actively involved in doing the very thing I’m accused of?

No one forced him to take action. I did not steal his free agency but the bloggers now want to clear him of all accountability and wanting to present him as the victim. So again, let’s blame Eve and her daughter’s for all the mistakes of mankind.

God help us all. I wish there was more truth and integrity but we are living in hell and dealing with imperfect people. Kindness and love and accountability needs to rule not selfish desires. i write this anonymously because I do not want to experience the same cruelty that has been directed to the owners of this blog by those claiming a desire for Zion. The only solution is for everyone to take accountability for their own mistakes, their own hurtful words and actions, and to offer apologies to those they have offended or hurt. To stand by and do nothing proves we are a prideful people. John Doe I am asking you to begin the healing process by offering your sincere apologies. You other bloggers might want to do the same. If we can’t swallow our pride, and actually humble ourselves, we do not qualify for gods good mercy.

https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wor ... comment-49

[Arenera]

I don't know if this is true, but someone just posted this in the comments of bringing hidden things to light.

To all. I am one of three who has been accused of teaching the bonded soul theory. I am on this blog to state I have been misrepresented. The words used in current blogs twisted my involvement in an attempt to redirect any negative focus on the scripture project and covenant. In a brilliant strategy, the bloggers have put forth a theory of John Doe being victimized by a woman who taught him a concept...I have never believed or practiced spiritual wifery. I had a belief that when we are created, we are created in pairs of male/female, which is referred to as soulmates and at some point in their eternal progression they come together as sealed couples. That’s it. Never did i promote adultery or polygamy or spiritual wifery, quite to the contrary. I’ve always fought against it. However, without breaking confidences or divulging names, my role was that I said that I felt he and another person were soulmates. The most stupid thing I could ever do and I’m humiliated that I said it and I will never make that mistake again. But I was not out teaching these concepts. I said something out of order. But I did not force him into action and warned him several times not to. I made a huge mistake but does that mistake rise to the level of victimizing? But it gets even crazier because he himself was telling other married people they were actually bonded to someone else and this was before I ever met him. So how could I possibly be victimizing someone who is actively involved in doing the very thing I’m accused of?

No one forced him to take action. I did not steal his free agency but the bloggers now want to clear him of all accountability and wanting to present him as the victim. So again, let’s blame Eve and her daughter’s for all the mistakes of mankind.

God help us all. I wish there was more truth and integrity but we are living in hell and dealing with imperfect people. Kindness and love and accountability needs to rule not selfish desires. i write this anonymously because I do not want to experience the same cruelty that has been directed to the owners of this blog by those claiming a desire for Zion. The only solution is for everyone to take accountability for their own mistakes, their own hurtful words and actions, and to offer apologies to those they have offended or hurt. To stand by and do nothing proves we are a prideful people. John Doe I am asking you to begin the healing process by offering your sincere apologies. You other bloggers might want to do the same. If we can’t swallow our pride, and actually humble ourselves, we do not qualify for gods good mercy.

https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wor ... comment-49

John Doe has been involved in serious sin for years. The timing of him being called to accountability had unfortunate timing for Denver's designs, who has been designing for years. Hopefully this might help a few see the reality of Denver's deviance and departure from Christ's real church, but i suspect that those who have followed him will continue to do so.

[inquirringmind]

This was posted today, in answer to a question I asked.

BRINGINGTOLIGHTHIDDENTHINGS
August 18, 2017 at 5:41 am
To Mike,

It was my understanding that John Doe did not have a fellowship. Since I can’t prove unequivocally that he doesn’t, it would be for Anonymous to provide further information.

The women who organized the council followed the Rules as given in Preserving the Restoration. Denver’s advice was sought many weeks prior to the council. When no advice was offered, the women proceeded as directed by the Spirit. Because John Doe travels a lot, women were selected from Idaho, Utah, Arizona, and Colorado. Plane tickets were purchased and travel arrangements made. The Answer to the Covenant came out about 36 hours before the scheduled council and had not yet been voted on. Anonymous said that many of the women did not know John Doe. That clarification helps greatly and I apologize for the apparent misunderstanding. The council followed the Preserving the Restoration outline.

It may be helpful to look at the timeline of events. John Doe was scheduled for the Women’s council on July 31st. The Answer to the Covenant was was received about a week prior and then posted July 29th around 9pm (roughly 36 hours before the Women’s council was scheduled to take place). Also taking place July 29th was the second round of voting on the scripture project, for the purpose of ranking the various Governing Principles documents, ended Saturday at midnight. So the Answer to the Covenant was received before voting had been tallied. I was forwarded an email response in which a scripture committee member said the reception of the Answer to the Covenant was received earlier than originally planned. These details can be dissected.

https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wor ... comment-55

And this was posted by one of the witnesses (Melonie Turley) today.

I was present as a witness for the entire women’s counsel and have first hand experience with John Doe. Yes, John Doe is the distraction. He and Denver both had the opportunity to take this in a different direction months before the counsel took place.

This was a last resort when more information had been made aware and we felt others were being harmed. We were concerned at the level of complete unawareness of continued actions and how that could be affecting many others and areas of involvement. We gave plenty of notice and even shared our evidence so it was out in front and could be determined if he wanted it to be made public in a counsel. We hoped in doing that they would see the corrections that needed to be made and course correct before the court was held. If parties would have been honest and repentant at that point, we would not be here! ALL of this could have been avoided. Instead, lies had to be told to cover and deception was employed. And now the deception is bigger because the lies are bigger.

In the counsel, I made a personal plea to John Doe before any of the testimonies. It was probably out of order, (I know…) but my heart went out to John Doe and all present! I knew of the information that was going to be shared and plead with John Doe, to come forward before Denver left, that he step up and take accountability so this could be taken care of “before we put everything on the table.” He knew what he had done and when he had done it. It was a counsel of women who all had compassion and if he would have come clean then, he would be deserving of Mercy because of repentance. Alma 42:22 “But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.” Repentance and integrity could have won here! And the longer this goes on, the more information keeps coming out. Yes, hidden things are coming to light, even ones we were not aware of till now.

PS.
Please, I am not a writer. The 2 of us trying to do most of this, do not blog. One does not even have Facebook! We have families and a life that does not include spending much time online or at the computer. Please be patient with replies! We have lives beyond being on the computer and do not know ANY of the tricks or shortcuts- if there are any! If I did have a blog, there would be NO comments!!! I do not do well with them. Like I told the other witnesses on this post, “I grew a pair of balls, but now I need to get a spine.” I am long on details, but details can be important. For you “red” personalities out there… just SKIP MY POSTS!

None of us are lawyers, and it seems that much of what we write is being picked apart, and is a matter of splitting hairs. We are not trying to misrepresent. We are trying to be as truthful, clear and factual as we can.
Perspectives are different. The counsel came upon all of this overwhelming evidence by just being present and being involved. I love each of them and know their hearts are good. This situation has put us at odds with them and that was never our intention. I thank them for even stepping into this, and am terribly sorry it has gone this way!!! :/

Now that some housekeeping is done, I’ll try and keep the rest shorter.

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