Priestcraft and spiritual wifery in the Mormon remnant movement?

[Mark]

I would strongly recommend reading the chapter in the Joseph Smith Priesthood/Relief Society manual titled "Beware the Bitter Fruits of Apostasy". Joseph was very direct in warning those who chose to break from the church and set up their own thing. Nothing has changed. The Harmstons and Snuffers of today are really no different that those early apostates who rebelled against Joseph and broke off from the main body of Saints to form their own organization or following. None ever prospered. They never will..

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-jo ... 7?lang=eng

[brlenox]

I couldn't agree more Mark. No doubt Isaiah is rolling over in his grave. Except there is one issue, Isaiah condemns modern day Israel and those leading Israel, he never once glorifies us like you do and modern day prophets/tradition does. Isaiah says Israel of the past and future are apostate, rebellious, and corrupt.

Lol this is illiterate beyond words.

Why don't you explain yourself? Exercise some of your own literate potential and share with insight. To pop on here spewing banalities is valued by none and does not invite dialogue.

lol I did explain myself. What he wrote is so illiterate scripturally that I struggle to find words. It is among the most ignorant scriptural interpretations I have ever seen in my life.

Are you saying you share the interpretation? Would you be able to explain it or defend it in your own words?

No, I did not say I agree. I seldom find myself in agreement with Sempiternal. However, that makes my point all the more. Were I inclined to disagree and to decide to weigh in on the matter, I would provide sustainment and explanation for the perspective I preferred. You have given nothing twice now. On what principle do you disagree? What scriptural or prophetic sources inform your position? Why believe anything you say as being any different - ie just your private interpretation, or ill informed angst against the church? At least Harbinger provides enough context that it is possible to clearly grasp from whence he comes - Contrary to your comments.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

Same scriptures used by Harmstons missionaries to convince (manipulate) anybody stupid enough to listen that the small righteous remnant of Saints consisted of those who were willing to be excommunicated from the LDS church and were worthy enough to give him their money and their wives or daughters as soul bonding experience for him. A small token of allegiance to the re-incarnated Joseph. How did that turn out? Didnt fall for it then. Still wont fall for it today. Snuffer is just a Harmston wannabe fraud. I will stick with the real deal thanks. Pres. Monson is my Prophet leader. Offshoots and break-offs have been going on continuously since Joseph walked the earth. Nothing changes. None of them prosper. There is a reason for that. If you commit to Snuffers Remnant movement you will find out soon enough why that is. False spirits will always lead you off a cliff. Thats their job.

Hey Mark! Hope all is well brother. I am not in the remnant movement. Never have been. I am a LDS. I do appreciate all your posts over the years on the Harmstons movement and the similarities with the Snuffer movement. I was responding directly to your Isaiah reference. Why would Isaiah be rolling over in his grave over a very small defected lds group? Who is Isaiah's intended audience? Isaiah is so dang specific that there is no way to throw his prophecies on the doorstep of a few offshoots. But you did it so easily without even blinking a eye bro, without addressing any of the scriptures I posted. Talk about smoothing the great words of Isaiah out. False spirits do indeed lead folks off a cliff, Isaiah interesting enough identifies those false spirits. President Monson use to be my idol too. Now I know cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

[Mark]

Same scriptures used by Harmstons missionaries to convince (manipulate) anybody stupid enough to listen that the small righteous remnant of Saints consisted of those who were willing to be excommunicated from the LDS church and were worthy enough to give him their money and their wives or daughters as soul bonding experience for him. A small token of allegiance to the re-incarnated Joseph. How did that turn out? Didnt fall for it then. Still wont fall for it today. Snuffer is just a Harmston wannabe fraud. I will stick with the real deal thanks. Pres. Monson is my Prophet leader. Offshoots and break-offs have been going on continuously since Joseph walked the earth. Nothing changes. None of them prosper. There is a reason for that. If you commit to Snuffers Remnant movement you will find out soon enough why that is. False spirits will always lead you off a cliff. Thats their job.

Hey Mark! Hope all is well brother. I am not in the remnant movement. Never have been. I am a LDS. I do appreciate all your posts over the years on the Harmstons movement and the similarities with the Snuffer movement. I was responding directly to your Isaiah reference. Why would Isaiah be rolling over in his grave over a very small defected lds group? Who is Isaiah's intended audience? Isaiah is so dang specific that there is no way to throw his prophecies on the doorstep of a few offshoots. But you did it so easily without even blinking a eye bro, without addressing any of the scriptures I posted. Talk about smoothing the great words of Isaiah out. False spirits do indeed lead folks off a cliff, Isaiah interesting enough identifies those false spirits. President Monson use to be my idol too. Now I know cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Thanks Brother. My best to you and yours as well. My problem is not with the scriptures you quote. I love Isaiahs writings. My problem comes from your and others interpretation of those scriptures. Harmstons bunch used to post those same scriptures constantly and interpret them using their own form of confirmation bias to show that the church and its leadership had fallen from grace and into apostasy. It was clever but deceitful. For example here's one you note: “The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.” Isaiah 24:5

Now this is exactly what the Lord said through the Prophet Joseph in section 1 concerning the state of affairs prior to the restoration. It was a result of the great apostasy. That was the purpose of the restoration. You however seem to have chosen to apply that to today. Why? Are you reading Isaiahs mind here and are sure he was talking about 2017 and the LDS church?

That is just your confirmation bias shining through. Isaiah clearly was referring to the period of darkness preceding the glorious restoration through the Prophet Joseph. Yet you and others who love to attack the church want to use it as a club to beat over the head of the church today. The Lord said otherwise through the Prophet. I believe Him. I could go on but hopefully you get the picture.

You dont have a corner on interpreting Isaiah's context or time frame or interpretation of his words for that matter. Neither did Harmston and neither does Snuffer or any other apostate who decides to break from the restored church and set themselves up as a light. Maybe Isaiah was referencing those guys. Ever though of that? That is what got them in trouble in the first place. And the beat goes on..

[BringerOfJoy]

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

"There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I."

[Arenera]

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

"There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I."

So if these "folks" had stayed in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, they already would have known about sexually infidelity.

You can get baptized 100 times and it won't help if you are following a false system. You can rearrange the scriptures anyway you want, but it won't help a false system, or a false prophet.

Wake up remnants.

[e-eye2.0]

So only Denver can receive revelation for the remnant group.

I am sure the guy was really disappointed when the revelation from the women, that he could sleep around, was a false revelation - or at least false in the eyes of Denver Snuffer. If God told those women it was okay would it be okay or do they now follow Denver Snuffer there non prophet and leader?

Can someone from the remnant clarify - Do you follow your own revelation or is Denver Snuffer the final word on revelation like he mentions in regards to this subject? Are things mirroring more the LDS church with a prophet and leaders or is it still kind of every man for himself?

[KFarber]

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

"There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I."

This can't be a StrongMan, can it? Again?

[Seek the Truth]

No, I did not say I agree. I seldom find myself in agreement with Sempiternal. However, that makes my point all the more. Were I inclined to disagree and to decide to weigh in on the matter, I would provide sustainment and explanation for the perspective I preferred. You have given nothing twice now. On what principle do you disagree? What scriptural or prophetic sources inform your position? Why believe anything you say as being any different - ie just your private interpretation, or ill informed angst against the church? At least Harbinger provides enough context that it is possible to clearly grasp from whence he comes - Contrary to your comments.

The problem is that the people who use this scripture in this way usually do so inside a very sloppy presentation. As such, I need someone to answer some questions and make clear what they mean instead of the broad smear used here.

Anyone game?

[brlenox]

No, I did not say I agree. I seldom find myself in agreement with Sempiternal. However, that makes my point all the more. Were I inclined to disagree and to decide to weigh in on the matter, I would provide sustainment and explanation for the perspective I preferred. You have given nothing twice now. On what principle do you disagree? What scriptural or prophetic sources inform your position? Why believe anything you say as being any different - ie just your private interpretation, or ill informed angst against the church? At least Harbinger provides enough context that it is possible to clearly grasp from whence he comes - Contrary to your comments.

The problem is that the people who use this scripture in this way usually do so inside a very sloppy presentation. As such, I need someone to answer some questions and make clear what they mean instead of the broad smear used here.

Anyone game?

:-\

[Seek the Truth]

So only Denver can receive revelation for the remnant group.

Denver has become what he set out to be against. I can't stop laughing.

[e-eye2.0]

So only Denver can receive revelation for the remnant group.

Denver has become what he set out to be against. I can't stop laughing.

Kind of seems that way to me as well.

Here is my guess that happens -

Those who like the power/leadership will probably stay - that would go against why most left because they didn't want a prophet.

Those who left because they like to live a different lifestyle may stay or go - Revelation saying what is wrong and right will really hinder there flexibility they have been enjoying.

Those who left because of the doctrine of the LDS church may also have issue with new revelation that seems to be coming out.

Some will stay because they just have nowhere else to go.

I have said for years that most of the people leaving the LDS church wouldn't be the greatest bunch to start a new church. Now that it appears the remnant group is organizing some this theory of mine will get put to the test.

[inquirringmind]

In the interest of being fair and balanced, here is what Denver Snuffer said about this matter on his blog today.

Denver Snuffer

Sexual Fidelity

August 16, 2017

There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I.

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

[Rose Garden]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

Thank you for pointing that out. I realize I was hasty in my previous comments. I was assuming the blog entry was accurate. I should know better by now.

[inho]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

Please do share the other view points as it seems as though the author listed 5 people who agreed with her: Ryan Thompson, Ruth Thompson, Melonie Turley, Brad Olsen, Bernadette Coss.

I can see one person having an agenda but when 1/3 of the 15 are up in arms you have a problem.

I found this (http://www.totheremnant.com/2017/08/bri ... light.html):

Several women who recently participated in a women’s council asked me to post the following statement:

It has been discovered that some who profess to seek Zion have taught principles of “bonded soulmates,” “bonded wives,” “first eternal spouse,” or some variation thereof; and/or have participated in secret and false ordinances associated with these ideas. These teachings originate with the same evil being who, “from the days of Cain” authored “a secret combination, and their works were in the dark…and thus the works of darkness began to prevail among all the sons of men.” (Moses 5:51, 55). Since that time, Lucifer has continuously sought to destroy the agency and bring people into bondage.

The man’s accusers have made public claims about this private council, including claims that Denver Snuffer said the following:

• The man in question was “a key contributor” to the scripture project.
• The man in question “had received important revelations concerning the scripture project.”
• Denver also confidently assured the council that [the man] was “innocent.”

We were present during all council proceedings, and assert these public statements are false and were never made by Denver Snuffer. We denounce these attempts to mischaracterize the purposes and results of this council.

This council was not a referendum on the scripture project or Denver Snuffer. It should not be used as such. This was a private action concerning one man who has repented and renounced his prior errors.

So it seems that the members of the council are acknowledging that there has been false doctrine on "bounded soulmates". They only want to make the point that this should not be used as a weapon against Snuffer or the Scriptures project.

Earlier we had the Mormonleaks letter and now this. It seems like the Remnant movement has all kind of people associated with it.

[shadow]

I guess remnant council/courts aren't held in complete confidence.

[AI2.0]

In the interest of being fair and balanced, here is what Denver Snuffer said about this matter on his blog today.

Denver Snuffer

Sexual Fidelity

August 16, 2017

There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I.

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

I believe Denver Snuffer is trying to gain control over something that could harm his precious scripture project and the covenant he's planning for Sept. I think the truth is still not fully known because of the parties involved and their own need to protect what they care about. I bet a lot of them don't want to see their remnant movement's human foibles brought to the harsh light of reality.

I find Snuffer's explanation hard to believe-- As he explains it, the 'poor' man was simply deceived by a wily, manipulative woman who 'taught' him and another, meek, innocent married woman that they were actually married to eachother in another life and so, it's fine if they want to have sex with eachother. yea right. And of course, the man in question never would have come up with any kind of an idea like that...he's pure and righteous, working so hard on the scripture project and receiving revelations from the spirit--which of course, could never have influenced him if he was actually lusting to commit adultery, which there's no question he followed through with, during his time on the project, him needing to be 'rebaptized' again to fix the problem. Such a simple solution to destroying marital vows and wrecking homes--a little dunk in a body of living waters and you are good to go in Snuffer's remnant, I guess. But, to reiterate--Notice it's the women in Snuffer's version who are responsible for believing and teaching a pernicious false doctrine. John Doe's position and his participation must be preserved, the women are expendable because...that's the easiest way to protect the project--besides this is so much bigger than any of them--this is the 'restoration' that needs 'preserving', no matter the moral cost.

The 'communities' were supposed to be autonomous, led by the spirit and not the 'arm of flesh', and so, they try to police their own--if anyone didn't see this coming, they haven't been watching the remnant much. This is to be expected to have some among the group who will use it to satisfy their lusts and call it 'the mysteries'. But Snuffer wasn't about to let a group of uppity women tarnish his dream, his 'scriptures', so he swooped in to exert his authority--which he's going to do any time he feels HIS work is threatened.

And so, I predict, the women who continue to challenge Snuffer's decision will be silenced and made an example to the group. John Doe will most likely keep his position--at least for now, until after this has blown over and the covenant and scripture project are safely accepted and embraced by the group and Snuffer will have made one thing clear to his followers. He IS the head of this organization, and while he may like to claim he's not in running his Snuffer movement, if they want to stay in the group, members (especially the women among them) had better not cross him again. He gave them the power to 'sustain' the men, but they'd better not make the mistake of thinking that has any real meaning, their 'power' is only what Snuffer allows them to have and if any of them attempt to go up against him again, they'll come to fully understand exactly what their 'place' is within The Denver Snuffer version of the 'restoration'.

[e-eye2.0]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

Please do share the other view points as it seems as though the author listed 5 people who agreed with her: Ryan Thompson, Ruth Thompson, Melonie Turley, Brad Olsen, Bernadette Coss.

I can see one person having an agenda but when 1/3 of the 15 are up in arms you have a problem.

I found this (http://www.totheremnant.com/2017/08/bri ... light.html):

Several women who recently participated in a women’s council asked me to post the following statement:

It has been discovered that some who profess to seek Zion have taught principles of “bonded soulmates,” “bonded wives,” “first eternal spouse,” or some variation thereof; and/or have participated in secret and false ordinances associated with these ideas. These teachings originate with the same evil being who, “from the days of Cain” authored “a secret combination, and their works were in the dark…and thus the works of darkness began to prevail among all the sons of men.” (Moses 5:51, 55). Since that time, Lucifer has continuously sought to destroy the agency and bring people into bondage.

The man’s accusers have made public claims about this private council, including claims that Denver Snuffer said the following:

• The man in question was “a key contributor” to the scripture project.
• The man in question “had received important revelations concerning the scripture project.”
• Denver also confidently assured the council that [the man] was “innocent.”

We were present during all council proceedings, and assert these public statements are false and were never made by Denver Snuffer. We denounce these attempts to mischaracterize the purposes and results of this council.

This council was not a referendum on the scripture project or Denver Snuffer. It should not be used as such. This was a private action concerning one man who has repented and renounced his prior errors.

So it seems that the members of the council are acknowledging that there has been false doctrine on "bounded soulmates". They only want to make the point that this should not be used as a weapon against Snuffer or the Scriptures project.

Earlier we had the Mormonleaks letter and now this. It seems like the Remnant movement has all kind of people associated with it.

Thanks for sharing.

Major damage control on this - I would be trying to fix this if i was David or I mean Denver Snuffer as well, as it destroys a lot of credibility of the new revelation which his non church will be based on i am assuming.

The irony in this scenario is almost unreal. So hear you have the leader (I am just calling it what he is) of the remnant who used the history of the church to discredit the church which caused his excommunication and eventual formation of his new church (I am also just calling it what it is). Denver now is part of a serious allegation where it calls into question the validity of the scripture and revelation that is coming forth. Can you imagine if this was oh say about 180-200 years ago and you were Joseph Smith, Brigham Young trying building the foundation of the church and false accusations flew left and right - some accusations recorded some not recorded, some lies, some stories where information was left out or from a different view point. - Is it a surprise that the leader of the LDS church say not to get hung up on the history of the church where we don't know all the facts?

Can you imagine the crap the church has to deal with on a daily basis.

[e-eye2.0]

In the interest of being fair and balanced, here is what Denver Snuffer said about this matter on his blog today.

Denver Snuffer

Sexual Fidelity

August 16, 2017

There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I.

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

I believe Denver Snuffer is trying to gain control over something that could harm his precious scripture project and the covenant he's planning for Sept. I think the truth is still not fully known because of the parties involved and their own need to protect what they care about. I bet a lot of them don't want to see their remnant movement's human foibles brought to the harsh light of reality.

I find Snuffer's explanation hard to believe-- As he explains it, the 'poor' man was simply deceived by a wily, manipulative woman who 'taught' him and another, meek, innocent married woman that they were actually married to eachother in another life and so, it's fine if they want to have sex with eachother. yea right. And of course, the man in question never would have come up with any kind of an idea like that...he's pure and righteous, working so hard on the scripture project and receiving revelations from the spirit--which of course, could never have influenced him if he was actually lusting to commit adultery, which there's no question he followed through with, during his time on the project, him needing to be 'rebaptized' again to fix the problem. Such a simple solution to destroying marital vows and wrecking homes--a little dunk in a body of living waters and you are good to go in Snuffer's remnant, I guess. But, to reiterate--Notice it's the women in Snuffer's version who are responsible for believing and teaching a pernicious false doctrine. John Doe's position and his participation must be preserved, the women are expendable because...that's the easiest way to protect the project--besides this is so much bigger than any of them--this is the 'restoration' that needs 'preserving', no matter the moral cost.

The 'communities' were supposed to be autonomous, led by the spirit and not the 'arm of flesh', and so, they try to police their own--if anyone didn't see this coming, they haven't been watching the remnant much. This is to be expected to have some among the group who will use it to satisfy their lusts and call it 'the mysteries'. But Snuffer wasn't about to let a group of uppity women tarnish his dream, his 'scriptures', so he swooped in to exert his authority--which he's going to do any time he feels HIS work is threatened.

And so, I predict, the women who continue to challenge Snuffer's decision will be silenced and made an example to the group. John Doe will most likely keep his position--at least for now, until after this has blown over and the covenant and scripture project are safely accepted and embraced by the group and Snuffer will have made one thing clear to his followers. He IS the head of this organization, and while he may like to claim he's not in running his Snuffer movement, if they want to stay in the group, members (especially the women among them) had better not cross him again. He gave them the power to 'sustain' the men, but they'd better not make the mistake of thinking that has any real meaning, their 'power' is only what Snuffer allows them to have and if any of them attempt to go up against him again, they'll come to fully understand exactly what their 'place' is within The Denver Snuffer version of the 'restoration'.

Yeah, I would like to schedule a re-baptism for this week and maybe again next week depending on if the harlot next door is able to dupe me again into sexual relations. - John Doe

I am starting to wonder if this was really a court of love?

Is it possible that Denver wrongly re-instated this member forfeiting his keys, and if so, who now has the keys? Do the keys now by default go back to the LDS church?

[AI2.0]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

I asked if you'd share more on this but you've chosen not to, so why should we simply believe a statement from you, let alone think it should should mean we believe you over what was said by the other side, who clearly gave us a lot more information on which to judge it.

For one thing, you say 'women who were present'--were these women part of the council that made the decision to revoke his certificate? If that's the case, then was it a simple majority needed to do this? You need to tell us, because we don't know how this works in Snuffer's communities.

'Interpretation' means perception. Does that mean that these two women don't challenge the evidence that was presented or what Snuffer claimed was the case? Because there is discrepancy there--the blog says that the man was teaching and acting out (for a while it would seem) the soul bonding doctrine and Snuffer says a woman taught the soul bonding doctrine to the man and a 'married woman' who then acted on it. So which is accurate?

If you want to interject and bring more information in to help explain this, that's great, but simply making a statement and thinking that changes things, doesn't really change things, unless you are willing to back it up.

[Arenera]

In the interest of being fair and balanced, here is what Denver Snuffer said about this matter on his blog today.

Denver Snuffer

Sexual Fidelity

August 16, 2017

There are too many false, foolish and untrue things said about me for me to be able to denounce them all. I could accomplish nothing else if I were to spend my time denying all these falsehoods. So I leave them unaddressed and continue to move forward accomplishing such little good as I am able.

One recent false attack suggests that, contrary to the many talks, posts, books and teachings I have provided defending sexual purity before marriage and fidelity after marriage, that I am somehow involved in promoting something called “bonded marriage.” I may not have the name right. I do not fully understand the false idea.

Let me be clear, again, that I denounce polygamy, adultery, fornication and sexual impurity. Those who read what I write know there is really no reason for me to even make this denunciation. But almost all opinions about me are formed second-hand, and the tale-bearers speak their falsehoods with the enthusiasm that persuades many people of their lies.

A recent incident involving a man’s improper conduct was discussed in a private meeting a few weeks ago. I attended a portion of that meeting. The man involved was charged, in part, with spreading a false teaching. The facts turned out that he was not spreading the falsehood, but was the victim of the teaching. He, and a married woman together were taught the falsehood by a woman who believed in the idea. The woman who introduced it to them contacted me directly and confessed she was the source of the false teaching and regretted very much her involvement with the fiasco. To my surprise, two other women contacted me and admitted they had a role in teaching this false idea and were also aware of the harm that followed such erroneous beliefs.

To me the man stated that he realized his error, confessed his mistake, denounced the teaching, and sought to apologize many times to those involved with him before the private meeting I attended. He had also been rebaptized to repent of his error. I don’t defend his actions. I never said he was “innocent.” I did say he was penitent. His penitence before the meeting and while I was present at the meeting was apparent. He admitted his wrongdoing, despite the personal humiliation involved, and he wept over his failure.

As for the man’s involvement in the scriptures project, he had no effect on the final product by his preliminary work. He worked on the Book of Mormon, and everything he did was discarded a couple of months ago and the whole redone. It was redone because of a recently released publication that provided side-by-side comparisons for every single word of every version of the Book of Mormon in existence. These include, among others, the original, the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837, 1840, 1841, 1840 London, 1920, 1981, and all the others. Every word from the beginning word to the last was detailed. The set was purchased and provided to those who were doing the work. The books were used by two teams; each having two members. All of them are in Utah. Both teams worked as pairs with one another to recheck every word and solve the word discrepancies, deferring to the original manuscript whenever it was available. Joseph’s 1840 version was deferred to secondly. Joseph made changes in 1837 and 1840 to conform back to the original translation.

What the man contributed most meaningfully was peace-making between members of the committee when discussions resulted in disputes. He helped make peace. The rule for the committee was that any question required unanimous agreement. He was part of the unanimity, and no one ever made a solo decision. His greatest contribution was to be the voice speaking for peace and harmony as difficult challenges were faced during the work.

Not only do I teach marital fidelity and sexual propriety, but the new scriptures will include Hyrum Smith’s general epistle to the church, published when he was the presiding authority in the church. His general epistle teaches marital fidelity, and counsels against breaking up marriages because of religious differences.

A man should have only one wife. And he should be faithful to her. Likewise wives should be faithful to their husbands. Everyone should act honorably and keep their marital vows, even when there are differences between spouses over religious ideas.

I alone am responsible for receiving from the Lord the content of the Prayer for Covenant, Answer to Prayer, and Covenant language. The Prayer for Covenant was provided by revelation from the Lord to me alone. It took me nearly 200,000 words in a book to say what the Lord, by inspiration, provided in the Prayer in less than 3,000 words. He is a great deal better at revealing the truth than am I.

http://denversnuffer.com/2017/08/sexual-fidelity/

I believe Denver Snuffer is trying to gain control over something that could harm his precious scripture project and the covenant he's planning for Sept. I think the truth is still not fully known because of the parties involved and their own need to protect what they care about. I bet a lot of them don't want to see their remnant movement's human foibles brought to the harsh light of reality.

I find Snuffer's explanation hard to believe-- As he explains it, the 'poor' man was simply deceived by a wily, manipulative woman who 'taught' him and another, meek, innocent married woman that they were actually married to eachother in another life and so, it's fine if they want to have sex with eachother. yea right. And of course, the man in question never would have come up with any kind of an idea like that...he's pure and righteous, working so hard on the scripture project and receiving revelations from the spirit--which of course, could never have influenced him if he was actually lusting to commit adultery, which there's no question he followed through with, during his time on the project, him needing to be 'rebaptized' again to fix the problem. Such a simple solution to destroying marital vows and wrecking homes--a little dunk in a body of living waters and you are good to go in Snuffer's remnant, I guess. But, to reiterate--Notice it's the women in Snuffer's version who are responsible for believing and teaching a pernicious false doctrine. John Doe's position and his participation must be preserved, the women are expendable because...that's the easiest way to protect the project--besides this is so much bigger than any of them--this is the 'restoration' that needs 'preserving', no matter the moral cost.

The 'communities' were supposed to be autonomous, led by the spirit and not the 'arm of flesh', and so, they try to police their own--if anyone didn't see this coming, they haven't been watching the remnant much. This is to be expected to have some among the group who will use it to satisfy their lusts and call it 'the mysteries'. But Snuffer wasn't about to let a group of uppity women tarnish his dream, his 'scriptures', so he swooped in to exert his authority--which he's going to do any time he feels HIS work is threatened.

And so, I predict, the women who continue to challenge Snuffer's decision will be silenced and made an example to the group. John Doe will most likely keep his position--at least for now, until after this has blown over and the covenant and scripture project are safely accepted and embraced by the group and Snuffer will have made one thing clear to his followers. He IS the head of this organization, and while he may like to claim he's not in running his Snuffer movement, if they want to stay in the group, members (especially the women among them) had better not cross him again. He gave them the power to 'sustain' the men, but they'd better not make the mistake of thinking that has any real meaning, their 'power' is only what Snuffer allows them to have and if any of them attempt to go up against him again, they'll come to fully understand exactly what their 'place' is within The Denver Snuffer version of the 'restoration'.

I can see why you go by the ultimate most annoying person on the forum, A.120. You crush the dissidents and force Denver to placate the remnants with a blog post.

Why do they let the John Doe's of the world get alway with serious transgression? Is there no compassion for the woman who is a soul mate?

[lemuel]

Two other women who were present have an entirely different interpretation of what occurred there, and note that the blog author has a definite agenda. Just for the record.

I asked if you'd share more on this but you've chosen not to, so why should we simply believe a statement from you, let alone think it should should mean we believe you over what was said by the other side, who clearly gave us a lot more information on which to judge it.

For one thing, you say 'women who were present'--were these women part of the council that made the decision to revoke his certificate? If that's the case, then was it a simple majority needed to do this? You need to tell us, because we don't know how this works in Snuffer's communities.

'Interpretation' means perception. Does that mean that these two women don't challenge the evidence that was presented or what Snuffer claimed was the case? Because there is discrepancy there--the blog says that the man was teaching and acting out (for a while it would seem) the soul bonding doctrine and Snuffer says a woman taught the soul bonding doctrine to the man and a 'married woman' who then acted on it. So which is accurate?

If you want to interject and bring more information in to help explain this, that's great, but simply making a statement and thinking that changes things, doesn't really change things, unless you are willing to back it up.

From what I've heard (third hand, so take with grain of salt) is that a woman taught the man the bonded mates crap, and apparently he bought it. Hard to hear the still small voice over the raging roar of hormones I guess.

I think the council that revokes the ability to use priesthood in a fellowship is entirely women. I can't remember if it's supposed to be unanimous or a majority.

[AI2.0]

This is a comment from "Bringing hidden things to light"

"From Denver: “I hope those who are opposed to this will allow those willing to enter into a covenant to go on in peace. We allow all others from any other of the various sects of Mormonism, to depart from us in peace. I hope that those willing to adopt the covenant are likewise given the opportunity to depart in peace.” http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/ ... t-edit.pdf

To go in peace would entail walking away without casting stones, right? Bullying via name calling or negatively labeling those walking away would be the opposite of departing in peace, yes?

From Denver: “In the end, it is better if only a very few receive covenant status who are united in mind and heart than to have a larger body that includes the FEARFUL, the DOUBTFUL and the SKEPTICAL.” http://denversnuffer.com/2017/04/covenant/"

So Denver is stepping in and taking control of his 'Remnant movement'. It actually didn't take that long for his 'communities' non church to turn into a full blown church, with Snuffer as it's prophet. The Remnant is not what it was initially billed as, if you wish to be a part of the Remnant, you need to conform to Denver Snuffer's views--and those who need to 'depart' are those who don't want to accept all of Snuffer's teachings. With this, the polygamists and the ones who want to be able to have relations outside marriage are the first to receive their 'walking papers'. Those who challenge his teachings will be the next in line to be asked to leave because he needs only those faithful to him.

It will be interesting if many of his members will remember how they fought the whole 'arm of flesh' and 'don't let anyone get between you and God' stuff, and you receive revelation from God directly, God tells you what's right--because it's obvious Denver Snuffer has positioned himself between them and their 'God'.

And this is the irony of it--Whether the man taught 'Soul bonding' or it was a woman who's supposedly responsible for teaching 'Soul bonding'? Snuffer's whole premise was that you are taught by God, not men, NO MEN on earth can tell you you are wrong-- so how can he now attempt to teach or tell any of his 'followers' that their 'revelations' are wrong if they don't conform to his 'revelations'? And there you have the dilemna that was sure to come to light with this whole movement.

[e-eye2.0]

This is a comment from "Bringing hidden things to light"

"From Denver: “I hope those who are opposed to this will allow those willing to enter into a covenant to go on in peace. We allow all others from any other of the various sects of Mormonism, to depart from us in peace. I hope that those willing to adopt the covenant are likewise given the opportunity to depart in peace.” http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/ ... t-edit.pdf

To go in peace would entail walking away without casting stones, right? Bullying via name calling or negatively labeling those walking away would be the opposite of departing in peace, yes?

From Denver: “In the end, it is better if only a very few receive covenant status who are united in mind and heart than to have a larger body that includes the FEARFUL, the DOUBTFUL and the SKEPTICAL.” http://denversnuffer.com/2017/04/covenant/"

So Denver is stepping in and taking control of his 'Remnant movement'. It actually didn't take that long for his 'communities' non church to turn into a full blown church, with Snuffer as it's prophet. The Remnant is not what it was initially billed as, if you wish to be a part of the Remnant, you need to conform to Denver Snuffer's views--and those who need to 'depart' are those who don't want to accept all of Snuffer's teachings. With this, the polygamists and the ones who want to be able to have relations outside marriage are the first to receive their 'walking papers'. Those who challenge his teachings will be the next in line to be asked to leave because he needs only those faithful to him.

It will be interesting if many of his members will remember how they fought the whole 'arm of flesh' and 'don't let anyone get between you and God' stuff, and you receive revelation from God directly, God tells you what's right--because it's obvious Denver Snuffer has positioned himself between them and their 'God'.

And this is the irony of it--Whether the man taught 'Soul bonding' or it was a woman who's supposedly responsible for teaching 'Soul bonding'? Snuffer's whole premise was that you are taught by God, not men, NO MEN on earth can tell you you are wrong-- so how can he now attempt to teach or tell any of his 'followers' that their 'revelations' are wrong if they don't conform to his 'revelations'? And there you have the dilemna that was sure to come to light with this whole movement.

I have mentioned many times I have family in this movement. I don't keep in contact with them really though. My sisters family were true blue mormons for years and then one thing lead to another and they joined this movement, pulling their kid off of his mission half way through and they all pretty much joined - sad. My brother-in-law has been in the higher ups - I don't know if he has been helping on the new doctrine but he was once considered one of the big 5 which was a group of guys that were at the top of this non layered movement. My brother-in-law filed for divorce from my sister I think about 18 months or so ago as she ended up calling BS on everything including Denver Snuffer and among other things they split - I don't even know if the divorce is finalized it's been an ongoing process. My sister now boarderlines atheism.

About a year ago I heard from my sister, when their son was marrying the daughter of another high up remnant leader that they were going to do the temple ceremony on their marriage just as we do in our church. My other "active" sister who was invited to the wedding said it was just a civil marriage so nothing happened other than some scriptures were shared on why it was okay to drink and just about everyone was drinking wine at the wedding.

I also hear around that time that the formation of the church was coming but I didn't get a lot of details on it. I kind of blew it off as it's been a year but it now sounds like things are now picking up steam to where there will at least be a leader. I think Denver is playing this all out like the original church, little by little he will morph it into a church - he has to - it's been silly that he has been denying any such thing when we all know that God calls prophets and establishes order.

Satan never supports his and all the people who realize they have been duped not only do they not have the original covenants that were true and from God but they don't even have a fellowship or support in their wayward ways - they are going to have to either be left out to dry or double down on a movement that will look much like the one they left and be worse off from where they started -

From what I have seen some of these people hated authority or wished they had it so those who have it in the new church will stick around and those who hated it will move on.

[AI2.0]

This is a comment from "Bringing hidden things to light"

"From Denver: “I hope those who are opposed to this will allow those willing to enter into a covenant to go on in peace. We allow all others from any other of the various sects of Mormonism, to depart from us in peace. I hope that those willing to adopt the covenant are likewise given the opportunity to depart in peace.” http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/ ... t-edit.pdf

To go in peace would entail walking away without casting stones, right? Bullying via name calling or negatively labeling those walking away would be the opposite of departing in peace, yes?

From Denver: “In the end, it is better if only a very few receive covenant status who are united in mind and heart than to have a larger body that includes the FEARFUL, the DOUBTFUL and the SKEPTICAL.” http://denversnuffer.com/2017/04/covenant/"

So Denver is stepping in and taking control of his 'Remnant movement'. It actually didn't take that long for his 'communities' non church to turn into a full blown church, with Snuffer as it's prophet. The Remnant is not what it was initially billed as, if you wish to be a part of the Remnant, you need to conform to Denver Snuffer's views--and those who need to 'depart' are those who don't want to accept all of Snuffer's teachings. With this, the polygamists and the ones who want to be able to have relations outside marriage are the first to receive their 'walking papers'. Those who challenge his teachings will be the next in line to be asked to leave because he needs only those faithful to him.

It will be interesting if many of his members will remember how they fought the whole 'arm of flesh' and 'don't let anyone get between you and God' stuff, and you receive revelation from God directly, God tells you what's right--because it's obvious Denver Snuffer has positioned himself between them and their 'God'.

And this is the irony of it--Whether the man taught 'Soul bonding' or it was a woman who's supposedly responsible for teaching 'Soul bonding'? Snuffer's whole premise was that you are taught by God, not men, NO MEN on earth can tell you you are wrong-- so how can he now attempt to teach or tell any of his 'followers' that their 'revelations' are wrong if they don't conform to his 'revelations'? And there you have the dilemna that was sure to come to light with this whole movement.

I have mentioned many times I have family in this movement. I don't keep in contact with them really though. My sisters family were true blue mormons for years and then one thing lead to another and they joined this movement, pulling their kid off of his mission half way through and they all pretty much joined - sad. My brother-in-law has been in the higher ups - I don't know if he has been helping on the new doctrine but he was once considered one of the big 5 which was a group of guys that were at the top of this non layered movement. My brother-in-law filed for divorce from my sister I think about 18 months or so ago as she ended up calling BS on everything including Denver Snuffer and among other things they split - I don't even know if the divorce is finalized it's been an ongoing process. My sister now boarderlines atheism.

About a year ago I heard from my sister, when their son was marrying the daughter of another high up remnant leader that they were going to do the temple ceremony on their marriage just as we do in our church. My other "active" sister who was invited to the wedding said it was just a civil marriage so nothing happened other than some scriptures were shared on why it was okay to drink and just about everyone was drinking wine at the wedding.

I also hear around that time that the formation of the church was coming but I didn't get a lot of details on it. I kind of blew it off as it's been a year but it now sounds like things are now picking up steam to where there will at least be a leader. I think Denver is playing this all out like the original church, little by little he will morph it into a church - he has to - it's been silly that he has been denying any such thing when we all know that God calls prophets and establishes order.

Satan never supports his and all the people who realize they have been duped not only do they not have the original covenants that were true and from God but they don't even have a fellowship or support in their wayward ways - they are going to have to either be left out to dry or double down on a movement that will look much like the one they left and be worse off from where they started -

From what I have seen some of these people hated authority or wished they had it so those who have it in the new church will stick around and those who hated it will move on.

Yes, I remembered when you told us about your sister and her family, I'm so sorry that her family was not able to survive intact. Such a tragedy for some of these people, the damage it does to them and their loved ones.

I really think this is such a watershed moment for the Remnant-- those who are unsure of Denver Snuffer and his movement should take note; As I've been discussing this over the years, the main teaching his proponents have always stressed is that we aren't supposed to allow any man to get between God and us, we should go directly to God to receive personal revelation. I have often asked 'how do you know if it's God who is revealing this to you and not some other spirit?" a good question, I thought, but one that was never answered adequately. So here we see a situation where apparently some Remnant members claim a personal revelation of a teaching which is at odds with what Denver Snuffer and others believe--but when they act on their 'revelation', they are made to denounce, desist and repent of that 'revelation'.

Some of these people have claimed revelations that they should stop paying tithing, or that they should get rebaptized, or drink wine, or coffee and when the 'revelation' is something that is 'Snuffer approved', it's fine. But in this instance, the people received 'revelation' which is offensive to Snuffer (and to most of us too, I'd say) and so, is that what determined that it was false? As I see it, now in the Remnant movement, the standard has been created that if the 'revelation' does not conform to Denver Snuffer's views, it is false. I just wonder how many of the Remnant people are prepared to now weigh their personal revelations on the scale of what Snuffer feels is false or true. Mainstream LDS--we don't have a problem with this, we already 'follow the prophet' as for what is morally right and wrong, but the Snuffer people have often ridiculed LDS for this--so now, is this something they accept? Do Remnant people now agree with the slogan 'Follow the Prophet"--as long as that prophet is Denver Snuffer?