Why is it not a priestcraft?

[gardener4life]

So when you go to a bookstore, in Utah, or a Deseret Book, or Seagull Book or whatever you inevitably run into tons of books written by self professed LDS scholars who are not General Authorities or leadership of the church. For 29.95 or 19.95 you can buy their interpretation of the scriptures, the last days, the words of the prophets.

Why don't people realize this is a priestcraft?

We can't charge money for the word of God. We shouldn't be trying to turn the scriptures into a gold machine.

Yet when I talk to people I know they'll reason it's OK because they have to feed their families too. I think that other people think this is weird too. If you have faith then you can have faith to find a job without selling the scriptures. Yet it's OK to be selling the word of God, when you aren't a General Authority or prophet.

[drtanner]

What are your thoughts on a seminary teacher, or religious professor at a university getting paid?

[Robin Hood]

So when you go to a bookstore, in Utah, or a Deseret Book, or Seagull Book or whatever you inevitably run into tons of books written by self professed LDS scholars who are not General Authorities or leadership of the church. For 29.95 or 19.95 you can buy their interpretation of the scriptures, the last days, the words of the prophets.

Why don't people realize this is a priestcraft?

We can't charge money for the word of God. We shouldn't be trying to turn the scriptures into a gold machine.

Yet when I talk to people I know they'll reason it's OK because they have to feed their families too. I think that other people think this is weird too. If you have faith then you can have faith to find a job without selling the scriptures. Yet it's OK to be selling the word of God, when you aren't a General Authority or prophet.

I agree with you, but would also extend it to GA's if they receive recompense for their books.
I won't buy any book by a GA as a matter of principle. If they have something to teach us, they have General Conference and the Ensign at their disposal.

[creator]

Intent is a big factor in whether or not something is priestcraft..

He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.
2 Nephi 26:29-31 (http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/26/29#29)

[Silver]

Priestcraft is a very serious charge. For the sake of argument, I'm willing to accept the accusations made by G4L and RH. However, to level those charges against a GA feels sandy, as in a sandy foundation.

This thread is certainly not the first time ever that a "book by a GA" has been called in question as a form of priestcraft. If RH has that idea, many others do as well. It's unlikely that a concern such as this has never entered the ears or eyes of our GAs. In other words, they are aware that people accuse them of priestcraft for selling their books, and yet they, the GAs, continue to do so.

So what's wrong with this picture? Either RH is correct. In other words, the GA's are guilty of priestcraft which, if the Book of Mormon is to be our guide, is quite a bad sin. Or, G4L and RH are incorrect and selling a book or charging for speeches is not priestcraft.

The General Authorities know some accuse them of priestcraft for selling their books. The GAs do not stop selling their books. The leadership of the Church is not in apostasy. The Spirit of the Lord withdraws itself from the sinner, whether the sin be murder or priestcraft. However, fortunately, the leadership continues to provide inspired teachings and guidance via revelation from the Lord.

How can we solve this apparent contradiction? In my mind, the Lord knows His servants are writing and selling books. Yet, the Lord hasn't exercised his term limits prerogative and called them home. Their continued service as the Lord's anointed must be a key to this issue.

[gardener4life]

interesting thoughts. Just to be clear, I'm only concerned with people doing this behavior that are not General Authorities. Some of them will even include sketchy sources that aren't for sure legit in their sources and arguments.

[captainfearnot]

Eric D. Snider once wrote in one of his columns:

I was going to start a store in the mall called PriestCrafters, with the motto, “We’ll sell you the gospel in about an hour.” But then I realized Living Scriptures, Missionary Emporium and Deseret Book were already doing that.

My guess is that most people hawking wares at DB—gospel scholars and apostles alike—don't feel they are committing priestcraft because they aren't claiming to be publishing the word of God. It's all their more or less original work on the topic at hand, which happens to be religion. Open almost any book at an LDS bookstore and you'll find a disclaimer saying it doesn't represent the official position of the church.

I don't know if I agree with that. Maybe it's not technically priestcraft but I definitely have an issue with apostles profiting from their fame and prestige, whatever you might want to call it. But just because something goes on unchecked doesn't mean it's kosher. I think a lot of leadership meetings at the local level are nothing but gossip, for instance. Some sins we tend to self-police, some we don't, go figure.

[markharr]

You would have to consider whether they profit from it. It costs money to publish a book. The prices for these books are high but they also have a smaller target audience than say J.K. Rowling.

I also agree with BrianM. Intent definitely comes into play here.

[JK4Woods]

Priestcraft is not selling knowledge....
Its selling authority, forgiveness, priesthood power, blessings for money, endowments for money, taking confessions with money...

Selling knowledge is not priestcraft. Its a fair trade of time and effort to educate someone else in a direct one to one manner. No-one is required to pay money to learn... if you want to speed up your learning, and you have money to pay, then good for you. Else we'd all be in the apprenticeship / Master method of passing knowledge down through the ages.

If you are to interprete priestcraft so carefully, then we should have zero "graven images" of Christ or Heaveny father anywhere, ever. The Ensign would'nt have even pretty landscape pictures in it...

[captainfearnot]

Priestcraft is not selling knowledge....
Its selling authority, forgiveness, priesthood power, blessings for money, endowments for money, taking confessions with money...

So back when patriarchs used to charge a fee for blessings, that would have been priestcraft?

[David13]

I don't know. I can't say.
I can say that I never bought and never read any of those books. Nor any by GAs.
Now, a bio, yes, I will read a bio. I have read bios on Porter Rockwell and Brigham Young.
dc

[Michelle]

I've always been wary of Deseret Book. I preferred it when the Distribution Center and DB were separate. Now you have to make sure you check the back of the item for the official "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" symbol.

Lest we forget, DB use to sell Twilight. It is the first place I ever heard or saw it, no I didn't buy it, but I did read the summary and think "What are they thinking carrying such a book?" I have also never been a fan of members selling their testimonies for profit. (Though I have appreciated books written by the prophets and 12 Apostles, not so much other GA's.)

I just hate it when someone tells me something they learned (that is not true) from a book they bought at DB like that proves it is true.

I know I said this recently, but really, if we want to hear the voice of the Lord we can only hear it from a pure source: scriptures and prophets with the confirmation of the Holy Ghost. If we use commentaries about those two or worse flat out false doctrine, however well intentioned, we will be led astray.

One of the questions I always wonder about is: if you haven't read all of the standard works and words of the actual prophets, how do you have room in your life for the other stuff? Second, even if you have read them, I'm pretty sure, from experience, they require a lifetime of study. Why drink from a polluted or diluted source instead of a pure source of truth?

[AI2.0]

So when you go to a bookstore, in Utah, or a Deseret Book, or Seagull Book or whatever you inevitably run into tons of books written by self professed LDS scholars who are not General Authorities or leadership of the church. For 29.95 or 19.95 you can buy their interpretation of the scriptures, the last days, the words of the prophets.

Why don't people realize this is a priestcraft?

We can't charge money for the word of God. We shouldn't be trying to turn the scriptures into a gold machine.

Yet when I talk to people I know they'll reason it's OK because they have to feed their families too. I think that other people think this is weird too. If you have faith then you can have faith to find a job without selling the scriptures. Yet it's OK to be selling the word of God, when you aren't a General Authority or prophet.

Are you a believing LDS? If so, then I don't understand you being active in a church where you think leaders are practicing priestcraft. I don't believe they are practicing priestcraft simply for selling books that no one is obligated to buy, so it's not a problem for me. Their books are sold as counsel, stories, their own thoughts on subjects...what's wrong with that? This doesn't fall under the definition of priestcraft.

[AI2.0]

interesting thoughts. Just to be clear, I'm only concerned with people doing this behavior that are not General Authorities. Some of them will even include sketchy sources that aren't for sure legit in their sources and arguments.

Huh? That doesn't make sense. Do you believe it's not priestcraft if GA's do it, but it is if others do it? Or is it always wrong for religious people to write books, but it's okay when GA's write them??

What is your definition of priestcraft?

Why do you give GA's a 'pass' then?

[AI2.0]

Priestcraft is not selling knowledge....
Its selling authority, forgiveness, priesthood power, blessings for money, endowments for money, taking confessions with money...

So back when patriarchs used to charge a fee for blessings, that would have been priestcraft?

Back when Patriarchs charged a fee I think also some church positions were paid. Maybe the patriarch was allowed to receive compensation for his time, travel, etc. I don't know, do you know? Without knowing all the particulars of why they charged, I'm not sure we can accuse them of priestcraft. Needless to say, that practice was stopped.

[Michelle]

I go to DB for the distribution center.

Yes, because they are no longer separate, they use to be up until a few years ago.

[gardener4life]

So when you go to a bookstore, in Utah, or a Deseret Book, or Seagull Book or whatever you inevitably run into tons of books written by self professed LDS scholars who are not General Authorities or leadership of the church. For 29.95 or 19.95 you can buy their interpretation of the scriptures, the last days, the words of the prophets.

Why don't people realize this is a priestcraft?

We can't charge money for the word of God. We shouldn't be trying to turn the scriptures into a gold machine.

Yet when I talk to people I know they'll reason it's OK because they have to feed their families too. I think that other people think this is weird too. If you have faith then you can have faith to find a job without selling the scriptures. Yet it's OK to be selling the word of God, when you aren't a General Authority or prophet.

Are you a believing LDS? If so, then I don't understand you being active in a church where you think leaders are practicing priestcraft. I don't believe they are practicing priestcraft simply for selling books that no one is obligated to buy, so it's not a problem for me. Their books are sold as counsel, stories, their own thoughts on subjects...what's wrong with that? This doesn't fall under the definition of priestcraft.

I distinctly said at least twice, very clearly that I was talking about people who are NOT General Authorities, and not church leaders. And there is a difference.

[AI2.0]

So when you go to a bookstore, in Utah, or a Deseret Book, or Seagull Book or whatever you inevitably run into tons of books written by self professed LDS scholars who are not General Authorities or leadership of the church. For 29.95 or 19.95 you can buy their interpretation of the scriptures, the last days, the words of the prophets.

Why don't people realize this is a priestcraft?

We can't charge money for the word of God. We shouldn't be trying to turn the scriptures into a gold machine.

Yet when I talk to people I know they'll reason it's OK because they have to feed their families too. I think that other people think this is weird too. If you have faith then you can have faith to find a job without selling the scriptures. Yet it's OK to be selling the word of God, when you aren't a General Authority or prophet.

Are you a believing LDS? If so, then I don't understand you being active in a church where you think leaders are practicing priestcraft. I don't believe they are practicing priestcraft simply for selling books that no one is obligated to buy, so it's not a problem for me. Their books are sold as counsel, stories, their own thoughts on subjects...what's wrong with that? This doesn't fall under the definition of priestcraft.

I distinctly said at least twice, very clearly that I was talking about people who are NOT General Authorities, and not church leaders. And there is a difference.

And I asked you what your definition was for Priestcraft because saying that it's Priestcraft when some people do it and NOT priestcraft when other people do the same thing (write books), simply does not make sense.

[oneClimbs]

If you want to listen to General Conference, you have to either travel to listen or pay for the means of hearing it at a distance. Travel and technology both have a price. Think about that for a bit. Another point is that none of these other books are necessary for your salvation, you are not required to buy doctrinal materials for your salvation as you would be in, say, Scientology.

One of the companies I am a partner in has a print on demand aspect to it. People can purchase books with their own content in them but books cost money, this has been mentioned before by @markharr. This morning, I happened to be reading a Readers Edition of the Book of Mormon edited by Grant Hardy. You might ask why I'd pay for another copy of the Book of Mormon (a quite expensive copy) when I already had one. Well, I love the way it reads and is organized. Chapters and verses are deemphasized leaving more focus on the text and flow of the narrative.

He did a ton of work to pull this off and I am very appreciative that he devoted his time to making this available. I read the last page this morning where there was a brief bio and the following words, "His royalties from the sale of this book are being donated to the Humanitarian Services Fund of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." So not all authors are out there are priestcrafty.

Here's another thought. The original apostles traveled around and were supported by people for their food and raiment. I've never been in a position to feed or clothe a servant of the Lord in that way. While I have never purchased a general authorities book, I have been given them as gifts and I have particularly enjoyed Elder Bednar's books. I appreciate that they are still people like me and have a desire to study and think and share those thoughts, even if it is in book form. I guarantee they are not making stacks on these books.

I produced a product called LDS Symbol Cards where I spent a great deal of personal time creating a tool for making studying symbolism easier for people. I was conflicted about selling the cards because of priestcraft and things like that, but I could not produce them unless I had help so I ran a Kickstarter campaign. That worked and the remaining cards I sold for a profit, but I also gave many away for free to people I thought would like them. I also put a website together www.ldssymbols.com where all of that information on those cards and MORE is available for free of charge. I pay for the domain registration and hosting out of my pocket and it gets a lot of views and people find it useful. The amount of money I have made off the cards is perhaps a few hundred dollars a year and I make a great margin.

So people only pay for the physical cards if they want the information in that specific format. It is priestcraft to share knowledge for free but charge to deliver it in a physical format that requires work and production if there is demand for it?

[Rose Garden]

So when you go to a bookstore, in Utah, or a Deseret Book, or Seagull Book or whatever you inevitably run into tons of books written by self professed LDS scholars who are not General Authorities or leadership of the church. For 29.95 or 19.95 you can buy their interpretation of the scriptures, the last days, the words of the prophets.

Why don't people realize this is a priestcraft?

We can't charge money for the word of God. We shouldn't be trying to turn the scriptures into a gold machine.

Yet when I talk to people I know they'll reason it's OK because they have to feed their families too. I think that other people think this is weird too. If you have faith then you can have faith to find a job without selling the scriptures. Yet it's OK to be selling the word of God, when you aren't a General Authority or prophet.

Are you a believing LDS? If so, then I don't understand you being active in a church where you think leaders are practicing priestcraft. I don't believe they are practicing priestcraft simply for selling books that no one is obligated to buy, so it's not a problem for me. Their books are sold as counsel, stories, their own thoughts on subjects...what's wrong with that? This doesn't fall under the definition of priestcraft.

I distinctly said at least twice, very clearly that I was talking about people who are NOT General Authorities, and not church leaders. And there is a difference.

What's the difference?

[Rose Garden]

I personally would say that the GA's, as leaders of the church, have the responsibility to set the example that the rest of the membership should follow. So if the leaders of the church are publishing books about the gospel and that is not considered priestcraft then the members also can publish books about the gospel without it being considered priestcraft. If that isn't true then you can't really follow the prophet and so the whole membership of the church would be damned.

[AI2.0]

I personally would say that the GA's, as leaders of the church, have the responsibility to set the example that the rest of the membership should follow. So if the leaders of the church are publishing books about the gospel and that is not considered priestcraft then the members also can publish books about the gospel without it being considered priestcraft. If that isn't true then you can't really follow the prophet and so the whole membership of the church would be damned.

I agree. I don't see how it's okay for GA's but not others to write books and IMO, I don't think writing books is preistcraft.
Deseret Book sells lots of stuff I don't buy, but other people do, that's their choice. Simply selling stuff and ideas, thoughts, stories, counsel, is not priestcraft IMO. I think a lot of what they sell is a waste of money, but clearly others disagree with me and I allow them the right to buy what they want.

[AI2.0]

double post

[captainfearnot]

Priestcraft is not selling knowledge....
Its selling authority, forgiveness, priesthood power, blessings for money, endowments for money, taking confessions with money...

So back when patriarchs used to charge a fee for blessings, that would have been priestcraft?

Back when Patriarchs charged a fee I think also some church positions were paid. Maybe the patriarch was allowed to receive compensation for his time, travel, etc. I don't know, do you know? Without knowing all the particulars of why they charged, I'm not sure we can accuse them of priestcraft. Needless to say, that practice was stopped.

I get why it was done, and I'm not saying it was wrong, but it illustrates how difficult it can be to rely on the plain definitions of words. Charging money for a blessing would seem to be the plain definition of priestcraft, per JK4Woods above. Until you realize that it was commonplace and then you have to question your understanding or else reach troubling conclusions.

It's like how we all covenant to avoid loud laughter. Every Mormon I know enjoys laughing out loud, so what on earth are we talking about? Either we're all breaking our covenants or else "loud laughter" refers to something other than the plain meaning of the phrase. I honestly don't know which is the case.