A question about the Mormon remnant movement

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inquirringmind
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A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by inquirringmind »

A former member of this forum has his own blog now, and most of what he talks about is the sermon on the mount.

He's part of the Mormon remnant movement, believes Denver Snuffer is a prophet, and has been rebaptized.

I find it very difficult to believe in what he and Mr. Snuffer are teaching (for reasons that are probably very different from any reasons any of you might have for not believing them), but he tells me I should be baptized by someone in the movement, and says that if I don't believe he's a messenger of God, without receiving personal revelation to the contrary, it's because I don't have Charity.

He quotes 1 Corinthians 13, "believeth all things."

I don't understand that passage, and I don't really believe in the Mormon remnant movement, but it's hard for me to see the evil in what he's teaching when he just quotes the sermon on the mount (and Mr. Snuffer seems to be preaching the same message.)

Could my old friend be right?

Could the problem be with me?

What does "believeth all things" mean?

And where's the evil in what he and Mr. Snuffer are teaching?

If they and those who listen to them are being deluded by the devil, why does God allow it?

And what does the devil have to gain?

If any of you aren't already familiar with his blog, here's the link.

I don't see the answers to my questions, and I'd be very interested in your thoughts.

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Jonesy
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by Jonesy »

I'll keep this short. I almost made the same mistake. Let me narrow it down for you. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is still the Lord's church on earth and it also possesses with it the fullness of the keys held by the Fifteen.

It will save you a lot of trouble and heartache if you make the effort yourself and believe those things and study it through faith and diligence. I'll pray for you :)

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Sarah
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by Sarah »

I would think that if the remnant movement "believed all things" they would then believe the testimonies of the 12 apostles of our Church. But I don't think this scripture is talking about believing everyone who comes along with claims of authority, I look at it more as you believe that all things are possible with God. Mormonism embraces all truth, which we can recognize as anything that uplifts, builds, or builds upon, multiplies, enlarges, within the bounds the Lord has set. We shouldn't take lightly the promise that "all that the Father hath" may be ours if we behave within His bounds, and keep his commandments.

More revelation, more scripture, more opportunity, more potential. I can become a Goddess and have a multiplicity of all things. What does any other Church, religion, belief system, or person have to offer me more than that? If we think about the doctrine of the trinity of the Christian world for example, compared to what we believe about the Godhead, we see that the Christian world limits their definition by subtracting members and physical bodies from the Godhead. You could argue that they believe that God is in and through everything and is not limited by a physical body, but when you get right down to it, we believe that too. We don't believe God is limited. All things are possible with God.

So, the real question is, why should you believe them as opposed to us. Who has authority to baptize? Pray to know of course, but if you don't desire to believe all things as they are, the Lord is not going to give you an answer you won't appreciate.

inquirringmind
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by inquirringmind »

Jonesy1982 wrote: August 6th, 2017, 6:19 pm I'll keep this short. I almost made the same mistake. Let me narrow it down for you. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is still the Lord's church on earth and it also possesses with it the fullness of the keys held by the Fifteen.

It will save you a lot of trouble and heartache if you make the effort yourself and believe those things and study it through faith and diligence. I'll pray for you :)
So the only evil you see in their teaching is that it doesn't promote faith in the existing structure and hierarchy of the LDS Church?

These people seem genuinely sincere, and many of them claim to have had profound spiritual experiences.

If they're deluded by deceiving spirits, all the devil has to gain by it is getting them out of the LDS Church and into some other Church mostly teaching them to love one another (and some other things the LDS already believe)?

What bothers me is that I don't see what the devil has to get out of this movement, or what Mr. Snuffer or anyone else has to get out of it.

There doesn't seem to be much of a structure or hierarchy, and I'm told that the tithes go directly to the poor.

Is that not true?

How does anyone get anything out of that?

And is it true that Mr. Snuffer donates the proceeds of his books to an LDS charity that provides food and clothing to the poor?

The author of another blog says that he probably does it through his wife, or some other family member now that he's been excommunicated, but does anyone know if that's true?

As false as the whole thing seems to me, I just have trouble seeing any evil in what they're teaching--unless it's in something I tried to point out to the former member of this forum, on another forum.

For a long time he's been saying that Christ meant the word "hate" literally, when He said that any man who wanted to be His disciple would have to hate those closest to him, and I don't think that's true.

I tried pointing out to him that he could be teaching evil there, and I don't know if he got the point.

I think he's probably been too busy defending himself, and saying things about me that I can't see or respond to on a hidden area of that forum, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, that's the only evil (this one guy teaching hate instead of love, some of the time--not all or most of the time) that I think I've seen.

Does anyone else see or know of any?

P.S. I thank you for your prayers.

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Mark
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by Mark »

Sarah wrote: August 6th, 2017, 7:21 pm I would think that if the remnant movement "believed all things" they would then believe the testimonies of the 12 apostles of our Church. But I don't think this scripture is talking about believing everyone who comes along with claims of authority, I look at it more as you believe that all things are possible with God. Mormonism embraces all truth, which we can recognize as anything that uplifts, builds, or builds upon, multiplies, enlarges, within the bounds the Lord has set. We shouldn't take lightly the promise that "all that the Father hath" may be ours if we behave within His bounds, and keep his commandments.

More revelation, more scripture, more opportunity, more potential. I can become a Goddess and have a multiplicity of all things. What does any other Church, religion, belief system, or person have to offer me more than that? If we think about the doctrine of the trinity of the Christian world for example, compared to what we believe about the Godhead, we see that the Christian world limits their definition by subtracting members and physical bodies from the Godhead. You could argue that they believe that God is in and through everything and is not limited by a physical body, but when you get right down to it, we believe that too. We don't believe God is limited. All things are possible with God.

So, the real question is, why should you believe them as opposed to us. Who has authority to baptize? Pray to know of course, but if you don't desire to believe all things as they are, the Lord is not going to give you an answer you won't appreciate.

30 For unto you, the Twelve, and those, the First Presidency, who are appointed with you to be your counselors and your leaders, is the power of this priesthood given, for the last days and for the last time, in the which is the dispensation of the fulness of times,(D&C 112)

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Jonesy
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by Jonesy »

inquirringmind wrote: August 6th, 2017, 8:18 pm
Jonesy1982 wrote: August 6th, 2017, 6:19 pm I'll keep this short. I almost made the same mistake. Let me narrow it down for you. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is still the Lord's church on earth and it also possesses with it the fullness of the keys held by the Fifteen.

It will save you a lot of trouble and heartache if you make the effort yourself and believe those things and study it through faith and diligence. I'll pray for you :)
So the only evil you see in their teaching is that it doesn't promote faith in the existing structure and hierarchy of the LDS Church?

These people seem genuinely sincere, and many of them claim to have had profound spiritual experiences.

If they're deluded by deceiving spirits, all the devil has to gain by it is getting them out of the LDS Church and into some other Church mostly teaching them to love one another (and some other things the LDS already believe)?

What bothers me is that I don't see what the devil has to get out of this movement, or what Mr. Snuffer or anyone else has to get out of it.

There doesn't seem to be much of a structure or hierarchy, and I'm told that the tithes go directly to the poor.

Is that not true?

How does anyone get anything out of that?

And is it true that Mr. Snuffer donates the proceeds of his books to an LDS charity that provides food and clothing to the poor?

The author of another blog says that he probably does it through his wife, or some other family member now that he's been excommunicated, but does anyone know if that's true?

As false as the whole thing seems to me, I just have trouble seeing any evil in what they're teaching--unless it's in something I tried to point out to the former member of this forum, on another forum.

For a long time he's been saying that Christ meant the word "hate" literally, when He said that any man who wanted to be His disciple would have to hate those closest to him, and I don't think that's true.

I tried pointing out to him that he could be teaching evil there, and I don't know if he got the point.

I think he's probably been too busy defending himself, and saying things about me that I can't see or respond to on a hidden area of that forum, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, that's the only evil (this one guy teaching hate instead of love, some of the time--not all or most of the time) that I think I've seen.

Does anyone else see or know of any?

P.S. I thank you for your prayers.
If the church is true and the keys are within the church, that means the authority to perform all saving ordinances belong solely to it. I give you a very simple answer because that's what you will end up finding out through all your struggles in this. And that's why I keep what I say to a minimum. The journey to find out is between you and the Lord.

Forums like these can be good, but it's not necessarily the best place to look for answers. If you're not a member, work with the missionaries and the ward. The remnant movement will falter and fail like the many movements before it.
2 The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth.(D&C 65)
Joseph Smith said:
I suppose I had established this Church on a permanent foundation when I went to Missouri, and indeed I did so, for if I had been taken away, it would have been enough, but I yet live, and therefore God requires more at my hands.
The keys are with the Church and from it will much greater things come to pass.

e-eye2.0
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by e-eye2.0 »

Satan would do anything to pull you from the true church. Once out,you are on your own. I suggest instead of going down a strange path looking for new truth, you double down on the truth you have been given. I promise if you focus on prayers, scripture study, and serving you will find that nothing can replace what you have. If you decide to try going down these ther paths you will quickly lose that which you once had in the Lords church because just as He gives line upon line He also takes it away from those who reject his message. Again, if you have doubts focus on what you have and in a short time you will find more joy than you can find anywhere.

There is a sifting going on in the church and relying on others testimonies will not be enough to get through these last days and final tests.

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Sirocco
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by Sirocco »

Power doesn't have to come with money.

drtanner
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by drtanner »

Inquirringmind,

I appreciate the sincerity in your questions. I want you to know that a witness of the truth is available to you, one that you can stand on independently of anyone else. You do not have to stand on borrowed light!!! Heaven can and will speak the truth, there is nothing more important. I promise you I have received that witness and you can also. I KNOW the keys are alive and well in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have an independent witness that I can never deny.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Some groups may be having what they claim as spiritual experiences, and may even be performing miracles, do not buy in.
One of the great subtleties of the advisory is to imitate Christ or do things similar with the intent to deceive. Interestingly enough the advisory will use groups and individuals as his pawns and many times they won't even recognize that they are feeding into his hand and they genuinely believe they are doing right by God. The D&C and Book of Mormon are full of these examples and how to flesh them out. I encourage you to search them on your own, but PM me if you would like me to point you in a few directions to get you started.


Why does all this matter? Where is the evil? The evil is in damning people in there progression. We can not progress without ordinances and covenants. The authority for those ordinances that bind what is on earth to heaven is only found in this church. The personal access we have to the power of these ordinances is only found in our personal relationship with the savior through obedience to his commandments. This is where the difference in the church and the gospel comes in and the importance of the application of the Doctrine of Christ for you personally.

D&C 84:20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.
Satan knows this and will do all in his power to distract and persuade to look elsewhere with the mask of appearing to look like a true disciple. He will feed all the poor on the entire planet if it means keeping you from the ordinances of salvation and becoming like God.

Last thought as you are seeking for a witness.
D&C 93:30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it.
If you want to know the truth, truth can only be spiritually discerned. What does that mean, for starters you have to be worthy of the spirit as you seek to know God and receive a witness from him. I find many who seek to know truth forget this step and do not obey God's commandments and do not avoid things that would offend the spirit. It doesn't mean you need to be perfect, but it means you have to be trying your very best to be clean, worthy, and only doing things that invite the spirit as you are trying to obtain a witness and answer from God.

You do not have to be confused any longer, I promise you a witness and answer is waiting if you are willing to do your part to gain it.

What is your part.
Ask with all your heart and don't stop until you get an answer, most likely will require intense prayer and fasting.
Seek (look in the scriptures and to the prophets for guidance)
Be obedient
Repent and believe Christ

I will be praying for you as well.

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Robin Hood
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by Robin Hood »

The simple truth is that Snuffer is a deceiver.
Those who have thrown their lot in with him will reap disappointment by and by.

gardener4life
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by gardener4life »

Right away it seems he's got you looking at everything you shouldn't be looking at, and avoiding the things that you should be looking at. He's distracted you to watch him instead of watching the scriptures. I would also point out that you are looking for the wrong things instead of the right things. Rather than looking for evil look for light. Remember Elder Bednar recently had a talk about light? The part of the issue is that when we don't see really pure goodness and light then we don't know how light and dark are different. So we need to see what real light is before we can see how dark the room used to be before we turned up the lights. If I turned down the lights, wouldn't the room be dark? Of course it would. But if I asked you to go in a room that's dark and tell me where you see evil, then how could you? Of course you couldn't, because you are being blinded.

So look for more light, not for where the dark is. Alma 19:6 Now, this was what Ammon desired, for he knew that king Lamoni was under the power of God; he knew that the dark veil of unbelief was being cast away from his mind, and the light which did light up his mind, which was the light of the glory of God, which was a marvelous light of his goodness—yea, this light had infused such joy into his soul, the cloud of darkness having been dispelled, and that the light of everlasting life was lit up in his soul, yea, he knew that this had overcome his natural frame, and he was carried away in God

And also in D&C 18 and 19, you see the apostles have certain patterns of inspired teaching. Namely they don't point out to look for hate or embrace hate or contention but to only preach Faith In Jesus Christ, Repentance, and following Jesus. This is why missionaries are told to not bash with people. Also have you noticed how people try to get people to think that you should turn off your eternal progression by thinking everything is done now, so don't do anything more. Having you think you are done is also a lie. Most churches do a lot of good in helping people but they somehow always come back to this point of, accept so and so as a leader, don't do any more 'works' (no more progression.) And there's a spirit of enmity that you can't have more blessings than me kind of attitude. So they rebel against the true prophets, which is a sign that they aren't of him. Part of why they rebel? They can't stand that someone else has more blessings than they do, which is a sign of enmity, which is very close to saying 'with their lips they say my name but their hearts are far from me', 'they draw near to me They divide your attention away from the Lord, by telling you not to listen to the true prophets, seers, and revelators. It may be that some people are getting a few experiences but if they are really inspired they won't tell you to turn away from the prophet/president of the church. Also we read in the book of Mormon that the members of those ancient days were led away by great flattery, and cunning from Korihor types. Korihor professed to be a church leader but taught the pursuits of the world, and seeking power, rejection of Christ, and rejection of the Church of God. Also recall that Sherem in the Book of Mormon attacked the faith of the leaders and members in his day. False messages also tend to focus on looking for flashy images or social acceptance/popularity rather than humility and equality.

Scriptures for thought; JS-H verse 6 (contention, confusion, false pretenses of good feeling that disappeared after the mask came off).

We find all kinds of keys of truth and discernment in the Book of Mormon and in the Doctrine and Covenants. Those are the tools you will use.

JS-H verse 9 My mind at times was greatly excited, the cry and tumult were so great and incessant. (So even Joseph Smith saw that some of the illusions were so clever that even the elect could be deceived if they were not careful. Of course he is careful, he doesn't lose his place.)

What does he do? He reads the scriptures until his mind is clear. He focuses on the sweet peace of the spirit, and looking for drawing close to the Lord. It's interesting too that he doesn't force the answer. He just waits patiently with thoughts that he'll follow it when the answer comes, while living pure and free of distractions as he sups from the pages of the scriptures daily. The seeker offers sacrifice, humility, sincerity, and diligence to receive the same from our Heavenly Father in return. He reads; Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. In the book of Mormon we hear the words, 'trust

When he's ready, and patient the answer comes through gratitude, obedience, sacrifice, faith, humble earnest sincerity to follow Christ. It's interesting that the answer isn't forced and comes when he's ready. The answer is beautiful. He knows what to do when the time is right. If you don't know then focus on waiting till you do know but don't be inactive or idle, be zealously trying to fill yourself with light and truth. We read in verse 12 Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. (He's feeling pure feeling from the spirit. It's a sense of love and peace, not contention and no hate. This feeling is a fruit of the love of God, like reading about the tree of life fruit in Lehi's dream.)

Why do some people get really wonderful sweet answers to prayers?

Think of the story of Lamoni and Ammon. There are things we can dwell on. I would suggest a few of them, and even though you've read this scripture many times, think about how powerful it is in the wording here, and how beautiful it is; Alma 19:29 O blessed Jesus, who has saved me from an awful hell! O blessed God, have mercy on this people! Alma 18:And the king answered him not for the space of an hour, according to their time, for he knew not what he should say unto him. (Lamoni's heart ached so much for the truth that he endured an hour of sitting where others would be bored just from the ache in his heart to search for freedom and truth. What's interesting is if Ammon had let him sit there longer he wanted to badly to follow the truth he might have continued to sit for many hours.) Alma 18:21 And now, if thou wilt tell me concerning these things, whatsoever thou desirest I will give unto thee; and if it were needed, I would guard thee with my armies; but I know that thou art more powerful than all they; nevertheless, whatsoever thou desirest of me I will grant it unto thee. (Lamoni is committed. We read he would have done everything in his power to follow the truth if it were received.) Verse 41 And he began to cry unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, have mercy; according to thy abundant mercy which thou hast had upon the people of Nephi, have upon me, and my people. (Also consider the attitude of his father); he is first receptive to truth; Alma 22:Arise, for I will grant unto you your lives, and I will not suffer that ye shall be my servants; but I will insist that ye shall administer unto me; for I have been somewhat troubled in mind because of the generosity and the greatness of the words of thy brother Ammon; and I desire to know the cause why he has not come up out of Middoni with thee. Verse 11And he said: Yea, I believe that the Great Spirit created all things, and I desire that ye should tell me concerning all these things, and I will believe thy words.

*** (Who can rival this man's sense of commitment? He is absolutely amazing! These words are so beautiful and pure. If there are people like this it's no wonder the Lord tells us he will blossom the descendants of the Lamanites as a rose***Alma 22:15 And it came to pass that after Aaron had expounded these things unto him, the king said: What shall I do that I may have this eternal life of which thou hast spoken? Yea, what shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his Spirit, that I may be filled with joy, that I may not be cast off at the last day? Behold, said he, I will give up all that I possess, yea, I will forsake my kingdom, that I may receive this great joy. **'I will give up all that I possess, yeah, I even my kingdom just to know the truth'***

And we see the same type of commitment to the truth here; Enos 1:4 And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.

Why do people get so offended at church members and the Joseph Smith story?

I believe its because of enmity. The enmity comes from not being able to handle that someone else can have more light, progression, than the person who hears about it. They very naturally turn against it and follow this enmity. So we must avoid enmity too. But a man teaching hate of course he has enmity.

Hear are some scriptures for thought.

Read the story of Enos often. Both the story of Enos and the JS-H or Joseph Smith story should be read often because they teach the true order of receiving answers to prayers through humility, faith, diligence, and MEEKNESS; willing to let the Lord teach and guide us. We don't have to pray all day but its the sense of our heart earnestly seeking Heavenly Father with pure sincerity and willing to follow it.

Psalms 64:10 The righteous shall be glad in the Lord, and shall trust in him; and all the upright in heart shall glory.
Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. (Job wasn't afraid of a little adversity to get his answer. Make the decision that you will be willing to follow Him even if there's a little adversity before you get your answer and you will be surprised how much better the answers will be.)
Alma 61:13 But behold he doth not command us that we shall subject ourselves to our enemies, but that we should put our trust in him, and he will deliver us. (Trust that Heavenly Father will help you through adversity. He just wants you to trust him that he will fight the battles for you if you'll do your part.) Alma 36:27 And I have been supported under trials and troubles of every kind, yea, and in all manner of afflictions; yea, God has delivered me from prison, and from bonds, and from death; yea, and I do put my trust in him, and he will still deliver me.

I think your heart is getting close to your answer. Why? Because you didn't fear asking questions openly. You didn't fear asking, and didn't pay attention to worrying about being scorned or scoffed at. You asked sincerely. You are wonderful. You are a child of God. We care about you.

Keep reading the scriptures, also go listen to conference talks, focus on your impressions and how you feel as you listen and write down those impressions in a journal. Focus more on Christ and less on these other naysayers. Things will work out. These small things will have answers open up as you seek to follow truth according to your diligence.Then follow up on your progress in a month of doing so, not letting go. Then don't stop! No education is more important than the education of truth and light, which is filling yourself up with the love of God.
Last edited by gardener4life on August 7th, 2017, 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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marc
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by marc »

1 Nephi 15:8 And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?

9 And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.

10 Behold, I said unto them: How is it that ye do not keep the commandments of the Lord? How is it that ye will perish, because of the hardness of your hearts?

11 Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said?—If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you.
What was the difference between Nephi and his two brothers? Nephi obeyed the Lord and did not rely on the testimonies of others, including his own father's. He went and got his own witness from God. Yes, his father's words were true, but they were only efficacious in his life because he went and got his own answer. Nephi's words in this chapter were not efficacious in his brother's lives because, while he spoke the truth to answer their questions, they did not get their own answer from God by the power of the Holy Ghost like Nephi did. There's the difference. If you don't have the Holy Ghost, then what good does it do to understand the truth from the leaders of the church or from some remnant group or some forum? Awaken your soul and go and study it out in your mind and with all your heart ask of God and then do what HE requires of you. If you have the Holy Ghost, you should have no problem. If you don't have the Holy Ghost, then you're in trouble.

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LDS Physician
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by LDS Physician »

inquirringmind wrote: August 6th, 2017, 8:18 pm
Jonesy1982 wrote: August 6th, 2017, 6:19 pm I'll keep this short. I almost made the same mistake. Let me narrow it down for you. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is still the Lord's church on earth and it also possesses with it the fullness of the keys held by the Fifteen.

It will save you a lot of trouble and heartache if you make the effort yourself and believe those things and study it through faith and diligence. I'll pray for you :)
So the only evil you see in their teaching is that it doesn't promote faith in the existing structure and hierarchy of the LDS Church?

These people seem genuinely sincere, and many of them claim to have had profound spiritual experiences.

If they're deluded by deceiving spirits, all the devil has to gain by it is getting them out of the LDS Church and into some other Church mostly teaching them to love one another (and some other things the LDS already believe)?

What bothers me is that I don't see what the devil has to get out of this movement, or what Mr. Snuffer or anyone else has to get out of it.

There doesn't seem to be much of a structure or hierarchy, and I'm told that the tithes go directly to the poor.

Is that not true?

How does anyone get anything out of that?

And is it true that Mr. Snuffer donates the proceeds of his books to an LDS charity that provides food and clothing to the poor?

The author of another blog says that he probably does it through his wife, or some other family member now that he's been excommunicated, but does anyone know if that's true?

As false as the whole thing seems to me, I just have trouble seeing any evil in what they're teaching--unless it's in something I tried to point out to the former member of this forum, on another forum.

For a long time he's been saying that Christ meant the word "hate" literally, when He said that any man who wanted to be His disciple would have to hate those closest to him, and I don't think that's true.

I tried pointing out to him that he could be teaching evil there, and I don't know if he got the point.

I think he's probably been too busy defending himself, and saying things about me that I can't see or respond to on a hidden area of that forum, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, that's the only evil (this one guy teaching hate instead of love, some of the time--not all or most of the time) that I think I've seen.

Does anyone else see or know of any?

P.S. I thank you for your prayers.
As has been said...they may be sincere followers of the Savior and good people. However, if they're drawing people away from the saving priesthood ordinances without and within the temple, then they are not good for you.

drtanner
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by drtanner »

"The Devil is not anti-religion. He is anti-Christ. He has devised so many religions to blind people of the true gospel."

ebenezerarise
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by ebenezerarise »

inquirringmind wrote: August 6th, 2017, 5:18 pm A former member of this forum has his own blog now, and most of what he talks about is the sermon on the mount.

He's part of the Mormon remnant movement, believes Denver Snuffer is a prophet, and has been rebaptized.

I find it very difficult to believe in what he and Mr. Snuffer are teaching (for reasons that are probably very different from any reasons any of you might have for not believing them), but he tells me I should be baptized by someone in the movement, and says that if I don't believe he's a messenger of God, without receiving personal revelation to the contrary, it's because I don't have Charity.

He quotes 1 Corinthians 13, "believeth all things."

I don't understand that passage, and I don't really believe in the Mormon remnant movement, but it's hard for me to see the evil in what he's teaching when he just quotes the sermon on the mount (and Mr. Snuffer seems to be preaching the same message.)

Could my old friend be right?

Could the problem be with me?

What does "believeth all things" mean?

And where's the evil in what he and Mr. Snuffer are teaching?

If they and those who listen to them are being deluded by the devil, why does God allow it?

And what does the devil have to gain?

If any of you aren't already familiar with his blog, here's the link.

I don't see the answers to my questions, and I'd be very interested in your thoughts.
I don't see the many answers to your questions and I'm likely not to give you any myself. But I think you are sincere so I will just leave you with this:

Do you believe in the Covenants you made in the waters of baptism?

I wouldn't let your journey into belief and the knowledge of the truth to be sidetracked without a healthy does of pondering about covenants.

You have made covenants haven't you?

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lemuel
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by lemuel »

inquirringmind,

Just leave your friend alone. Just let him be. Stop stalking him. Please.

inquirringmind
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by inquirringmind »

lemuel wrote: August 7th, 2017, 8:23 pm inquirringmind,

Just leave your friend alone. Just let him be. Stop stalking him. Please.
I'm not stalking anyone.

All I'm doing is investigating the Mormon remnant movement, and he's a prominent remnant blogger.

He's also invited his readers to discuss the scriptures and receive the sacrament in his home, and he's published his name and address online.

He even said he was disappointed when I told him that I couldn't get out there anytime soon, and I believe I have an invitation.

Also, it would be difficult to stalk him from where I'm at, since there are 3,000 miles between us.

So please stop judging and making accusations.

Thank you.

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Alaris
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by Alaris »

I was just pming a good LDSFF member on a similar topic that by their fruits you can discern them. The same spirit that drives antimormon propaganda drives fundamentalists to LDS forums with contention and deception as their fruits.

Likewise....

Trying to guilt you into committing by saying you don't have charity is not a fruit or tactic of the Spirit and in fact reveals the opposite. I stand by the other LDS in this thread who say you can inquire of the Lord. Truth does not need guilt tactics for discovery... Just a sincere prayer. The saving ordinances are in our church as LDSphysician says. The Lord still leads our church. Pray about it :)

Finrock
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by Finrock »

drtanner wrote: August 7th, 2017, 12:00 am Some groups may be having what they claim as spiritual experiences, and may even be performing miracles, do not buy in.
One of the great subtleties of the advisory is to imitate Christ or do things similar with the intent to deceive. Interestingly enough the advisory will use groups and individuals as his pawns and many times they won't even recognize that they are feeding into his hand and they genuinely believe they are doing right by God. The D&C and Book of Mormon are full of these examples and how to flesh them out. I encourage you to search them on your own, but PM me if you would like me to point you in a few directions to get you started.
I understand what you are saying, drtanner, but how does what you are saying not apply to you and to LDS in general?

-Finrock

drtanner
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by drtanner »

When you have a witness of the truth there is nothing here that does not apply.

Finrock
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by Finrock »

drtanner wrote: August 8th, 2017, 8:20 am When you have a witness of the truth there is nothing here that does not apply.
drtanner, it is just as easy to say to you as you say about other groups, that you are falling for the subtleties of the adversary. It is just as easy to say to you as you say of other groups, that you are a pawn of the devil and you are unable to recognize that you are feeding in to the devil's hand even though you genuinely believe you are doing right by God. If other people or groups spiritual experiences by which they testify of truth can be called in to question and we should not buy it, then your own personal spiritual experiences, which is your only support for your post, can be called in to question and we should not buy in to it.

You can be deceived and your personal witness can be an imitation from the devil.

-Finrock

diligently seeking
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by diligently seeking »

Finrock wrote: August 8th, 2017, 8:30 am
drtanner wrote: August 8th, 2017, 8:20 am When you have a witness of the truth there is nothing here that does not apply.
drtanner, it is just as easy to say to you as you say about other groups, that you are falling for the subtleties of the adversary. It is just as easy to say to you as you say of other groups, that you are a pawn of the devil and you are unable to recognize that you are feeding in to the devil's hand even though you genuinely believe you are doing right by God. If other people or groups spiritual experiences by which they testify of truth can be called in to question and we should not buy it, then your own personal spiritual experiences, which is your only support for your post, can be called in to question and we should not buy in to it.

You can be deceived and your personal witness can be an imitation from the devil.

-Finrock
Drtanner, remember Jesus and his expressions to the woman at the well? He stated that he knew that Salvation came from the Jews... He also understood and knew that this forrunner religious institution to the life Ministry and mission of HIM ---not only consisted of much truth and helped to bring forth fruits of God's witnessing Truth ( doctrine, Temple, Authority Etc) for many within that Orthodoxy'--- He also knew the church (collectively not individually) had become corrupt / under condemnation and was untenable to welcoming him / more / the Messiah...

Holy Toledo drtanner, our church today is so much better than the Jewish Church in Christ's time. however, there are parallels my friend...

inquirringmind
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by inquirringmind »

Finrock wrote: August 8th, 2017, 8:30 am
drtanner wrote: August 8th, 2017, 8:20 am When you have a witness of the truth there is nothing here that does not apply.
drtanner, it is just as easy to say to you as you say about other groups, that you are falling for the subtleties of the adversary. It is just as easy to say to you as you say of other groups, that you are a pawn of the devil and you are unable to recognize that you are feeding in to the devil's hand even though you genuinely believe you are doing right by God. If other people or groups spiritual experiences by which they testify of truth can be called in to question and we should not buy it, then your own personal spiritual experiences, which is your only support for your post, can be called in to question and we should not buy in to it.
E
You can be deceived and your personal witness can be an imitation from the devil.

-Finrock
That's kinda what bothers me.

Here's something my friend wrote on his blog.
Everything which invites to do good and to persuade to believe in Christ is of God.

Since the law of God - the Golden Rule - defines good, and since to believe in Christ means fully relying upon him, confidently trusting him, and therefore doing all things whatsoever he commands without regard to your relationships, your career, your reputation, your holdings, and even your own life, this is equivalent to saying everything which invites you to obey the law of God and to persuade others to keep commandments of Christ is of God.

Everything which persuades men to do evil and believe not in Christ and deny him and serve not God is of the devil.

Since anything short of the Golden Rule is evil, this is equivalent to saying everything which persuades men to do to others what they do not want others to do to them, and to not fully rely upon Christ, and to reject Christ or any of Christ’s commands, teachings, or sayings, and to not keep the commandments of God, is of the devil.
http://logscabin.blogspot.com/2017/06/t ... e.html?m=1

My friend, and Mr. Snuffer both strongly emphasize the golden rule.

And they both tell people to ask of God, and to keep asking until they get an answer.

And I'm trying to keep the golden, and praying, and pondering.

And I'm still not sure I see the evil in what they're teaching.

drtanner
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by drtanner »

That is why your own witness is so important and was my invitation to inquiringmind. The D&C, Church history, and Book of Mormon are full of examples of those claiming spiritual experiences, that did not have authority or saving ordinances or that were deceived. And we know from Matthew 24 even the elect will be deceived in the last day. A personal witness is critical. You can draw all kinds of parallels and frame them to fit any conversation but for me there is no debate about what I have experienced as an answer to the reality of the authority that exists in Christs true church. And as I have said before none of that authority matters without the gospel and a personal relationship with Christ, but it is everything when you combine it with that relationship.

Finrock, JaredBees do you feel that you have received a witness that the authority for saving ordinances does not exist in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? Help us understand where you stand in regards to your feelings about the church and why you feel that way.

drtanner
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Re: A question about the Mormon remnant movement

Post by drtanner »

Inquirringmind,

The evil is in keeping people from receiving saving ordinances by those who have authority.

Listen to what the Lord told Joseph Smith in the first vision:
"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
Many could and would argue that most of the churches of the day were teaching good Christ based doctrine, and would have a hard time seeing the evil in the messages. Many churches taught the golden rule, to feed the hungry, give to the poor, and to take care of the widow, but what did the Lord say?

They have a form of Godliness but they deny the power thereof. The opportunity for power is found in the ordinances and covenants because of priesthood authority. The power is activated when our hearts are one with the promises we make. When the Lord knows we are WILLING to sacrifice and consecrate all, when we are doing everything we can to be his disciples and take upon his name and when repentance is real.
2Nephi 31:13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ.....
Grateful you are praying and seeking. The answers will come. The Lord gives Liberally to those who ask sincerely. I've been praying and will continue to pray for you.

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