"Do the Wicked Prosper While the Righteous Suffer?"

[Red]

Would anyone like to share a thought or story inspired by this article?

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1990/10/do-t ... r?lang=eng

[brianj]

The article spends almost no time on the subject of the title. It seems to be an article about why life is hard for those who are trying to do the right.

But, focusing on the title, yes the wicked do prosper and often do so at the expense of the righteous. And it really sucks to be on the suffering end of this, especially since we have so little firm knowledge of what comes later. I suspect that if we could see how blessed we are, how blessed we will be in the next life, and how much those wicked people who cause us to suffer will be suffering in the next life, we would not see anything unfair about the world and wouldn't feel hurt or envious of the prosperity of the wicked. I have lived years longer than billionaire drug cartel leader Pablo Escobar and, I sincerely hope, I will have very little to repent of when I leave mortality.

[Juliet]

I think sometimes righteous people bear the burdens of wicked people because they love them. No greater love hath a man than he give his life for his friends. Other than that, no, there is no need for the righteous to suffer; we have all the tools to defeat Satan and to restore to us our blessings. I know Satan steals our blessings, but then we need to make sure we don't let him do that. We have a right to our inheritance in the Lord.

[MMbelieve]

When were teenagers and young adults we always think everyone is having more fun than we are because we don't go to parties or sleep around or drink or whatever. It's later that we can see the truth. They appear to have more fun but their not really. They are often miserable and have low confidence hidden by their extra curricular activities. They put on a good show by doing those things accepted by the world, then they go home and are lost waiting for the next opportunity to "feel" better.

The righteous have faith and truth. The wicked are lost and have a hard time finding any meaning or purpose beyond material or physical pleasures. They don't have the comfort that the righteous have.

While it appears the wicked prosper, it's only because this world is Satan dominion. You put the wicked on the outskirts of zion and the tables will be turned. They will ask, why is it only the righteous who prosper when we work our finger to the bone?

It's temporary, and those who join Satan in his agenda to promote ungodly things seem to benefit from it. But they won't have anything after this life but what is in their hearts. Not their money, fame, prestige, awards etc.

[gardener4life]

It really bothers me when I see especially LDS people will give a disobedient person a future at the expense of the obedient person it was taken from. I've seen this in my life many times and its not right.

But I liked many of your comments.

It's true we're lucky we have a chance to latch onto the gospel and get to know Christ. Right now that's the best thing we can hope for. We're lucky to if he considers us unwavering in faith, and a good son.

[MMbelieve]

It really bothers me when I see especially LDS people will give a disobedient person a future at the expense of the obedient person it was taken from. I've seen this in my life many times and its not right.

But I liked many of your comments.

It's true we're lucky we have a chance to latch onto the gospel and get to know Christ. Right now that's the best thing we can hope for. We're lucky to if he considers us unwavering in faith, and a good son.

I hear ya.
I have an issue with the church forgetting it's good members who show up and do their callings and seem like they are fine while we go out and focus on every poor soul and keep asking more and more from members to give.

We forget and take for granted the elder we expect to move a lady's stuff or the poor member behind on bills to feed the missionaries etc. We all struggle but often it's the quiet obedient member that is suffering and losing it while exercising faith by doing what is expected. And of course the mormon culture is nice and sweet so they can't even say they are struggling.

We should take better care of our members we have or else we run the risk of running dry.

[Matchmaker]

It really bothers me when I see especially LDS people will give a disobedient person a future at the expense of the obedient person it was taken from. I've seen this in my life many times and its not right.

But I liked many of your comments.

It's true we're lucky we have a chance to latch onto the gospel and get to know Christ. Right now that's the best thing we can hope for. We're lucky to if he considers us unwavering in faith, and a good son.

I hear ya.
I have an issue with the church forgetting it's good members who show up and do their callings and seem like they are fine while we go out and focus on every poor soul and keep asking more and more from members to give.

We forget and take for granted the elder we expect to move a lady's stuff or the poor member behind on bills to feed the missionaries etc. We all struggle but often it's the quiet obedient member that is suffering and losing it while exercising faith by doing what is expected. And of course the mormon culture is nice and sweet so they can't even say they are struggling.

We should take better care of our members we have or else we run the risk of running dry.

This same concern has been on my mind for a long time, and it is a genuine one, because I have seen active members burn out from too many demands and expectations placed on them and not want to attend the Ward anymore. There are so many charitable people in our Church who confuse down right enabling with giving an occasional helping hand to others that some of our Wards have developed a real welfare underclass surrounding them that could threaten to tear the Wards apart, because you have one small group doing all the giving while another group, who may or may not even be attending on a regular basis, doing all the taking and using up everyone else's time and resources. I think this is one of the reasons for the new Church self-reliance program - to encourage some of the chronic Church welfare recipients to get off Church welfare.

[JohnnyL]

Learn to say no to too much.

///

3 Nephi 24 (Malachi 3):
13 Your words have been stout against me, saith the Lord. Yet ye say: What have we spoken against thee?
14 Ye have said: It is vain to serve God, and what doth it profit that we have kept his ordinances and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord of Hosts?
15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another, and the Lord hearkened and heard; and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of Hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

[brianj]

I think sometimes righteous people bear the burdens of wicked people because they love them. No greater love hath a man than he give his life for his friends. Other than that, no, there is no need for the righteous to suffer; we have all the tools to defeat Satan and to restore to us our blessings. I know Satan steals our blessings, but then we need to make sure we don't let him do that. We have a right to our inheritance in the Lord.

There's no need for the righteous to suffer? When Ammon and the sons of Mosiah were imprisoned at the beginning of their mission to the Lamanites, when Abinadai was tortured to death under orders from King Noah, when Alma and Amulek were imprisoned by the people of Ammonihah, or when the believers in Ammonihah were murdered by being thrown into a bonfire the suffering was unnecessary because we have the tools to defeat Satan?

I disagree. Suffering is necessary to refine us. Suffering at the hands of the wicked is necessary so the judgements against them will be just.

[gardener4life]

Learn to say no to too much.

///

3 Nephi 24 (Malachi 3):
13 Your words have been stout against me, saith the Lord. Yet ye say: What have we spoken against thee?
14 Ye have said: It is vain to serve God, and what doth it profit that we have kept his ordinances and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord of Hosts?
15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another, and the Lord hearkened and heard; and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of Hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Wow, isn't the wording on this kind of interesting? It describes our day to the T. Thanks for sharing it.

[Juliet]

I think sometimes righteous people bear the burdens of wicked people because they love them. No greater love hath a man than he give his life for his friends. Other than that, no, there is no need for the righteous to suffer; we have all the tools to defeat Satan and to restore to us our blessings. I know Satan steals our blessings, but then we need to make sure we don't let him do that. We have a right to our inheritance in the Lord.

There's no need for the righteous to suffer? When Ammon and the sons of Mosiah were imprisoned at the beginning of their mission to the Lamanites, when Abinadai was tortured to death under orders from King Noah, when Alma and Amulek were imprisoned by the people of Ammonihah, or when the believers in Ammonihah were murdered by being thrown into a bonfire the suffering was unnecessary because we have the tools to defeat Satan?

I disagree. Suffering is necessary to refine us. Suffering at the hands of the wicked is necessary so the judgements against them will be just.

We all suffer in body, but suffering in body can be handled if one is walking in the spirit and not after the flesh. Suffering is necessary to refine the wickedness out of us. You should not go torture your innocent children because it is necessary to refine them. That is a mental illness. Suffering usually isn't God's purpose for the righteous unless it is to help bear someone else's burden of sin to help them repent, and that is done by permission of the individual. Abinadi was willing to die to help Alma see the light, that would have been a contract Abinadi made with God spiritually because of His desire to bring God's kingdom to earth. God's burden is easy and light. Suffering comes from the adversary, not God, and the righteous have peace no matter what they endure in this life. It is truly only the wicked who suffer and that is only so they will repent because God is just. If one finds himself or herself suffering,it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do, because sin is the cause of suffering. That shouldn't be a big surprize, we are all sinners and we all need to repent, and until we do we all are going to have suffering. So in that sense, suffering does refine us, but it is the consequence of our sin and not a consequence of being righteous. I do admit that Satan does steal blessings from the righteous, all of Satan's power comes from taking away blessings from God's children. So we need to fight that and get our blessings back because it is our birthright.

Lots of people refer to the Willie and Martin handcart companies as evidence of sacrifice for God. But they were warned by the guide to not go, but to stay at Winter Quarters until after winter. After being heavily warned, they decided they would still go because God would protect them because of their faith. That was not faith, but that was stupidity. The same thing goes for our day. When God warns us to get our food storage and then the yolks hit the fan, we will know that if we had obeyed, we would not have suffered. Truly it is disobedience and ignorance and breaking God's commandments that cause suffering.

When Jesus was tempted of the devil while fasting, Jesus told Him that we are not to live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. When we do that, no one can hurt us spiritually. And when we walk in the spirit, we have no fear. Nothing, not life, nor death, nor chains, nor bars, nor prison, nor height nor depths, can separate us from the Love of the Lord. (Romans 8:31-39)

[brianj]

I think sometimes righteous people bear the burdens of wicked people because they love them. No greater love hath a man than he give his life for his friends. Other than that, no, there is no need for the righteous to suffer; we have all the tools to defeat Satan and to restore to us our blessings. I know Satan steals our blessings, but then we need to make sure we don't let him do that. We have a right to our inheritance in the Lord.

There's no need for the righteous to suffer? When Ammon and the sons of Mosiah were imprisoned at the beginning of their mission to the Lamanites, when Abinadai was tortured to death under orders from King Noah, when Alma and Amulek were imprisoned by the people of Ammonihah, or when the believers in Ammonihah were murdered by being thrown into a bonfire the suffering was unnecessary because we have the tools to defeat Satan?

I disagree. Suffering is necessary to refine us. Suffering at the hands of the wicked is necessary so the judgements against them will be just.

We all suffer in body, but suffering in body can be handled if one is walking in the spirit and not after the flesh. Suffering is necessary to refine the wickedness out of us. You should not go torture your innocent children because it is necessary to refine them. That is a mental illness. Suffering usually isn't God's purpose for the righteous unless it is to help bear someone else's burden of sin to help them repent, and that is done by permission of the individual. Abinadi was willing to die to help Alma see the light, that would have been a contract Abinadi made with God spiritually because of His desire to bring God's kingdom to earth. God's burden is easy and light. Suffering comes from the adversary, not God, and the righteous have peace no matter what they endure in this life. It is truly only the wicked who suffer and that is only so they will repent because God is just. If one finds himself or herself suffering,it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do, because sin is the cause of suffering. That shouldn't be a big surprize, we are all sinners and we all need to repent, and until we do we all are going to have suffering. So in that sense, suffering does refine us, but it is the consequence of our sin and not a consequence of being righteous. I do admit that Satan does steal blessings from the righteous, all of Satan's power comes from taking away blessings from God's children. So we need to fight that and get our blessings back because it is our birthright.

Lots of people refer to the Willie and Martin handcart companies as evidence of sacrifice for God. But they were warned by the guide to not go, but to stay at Winter Quarters until after winter. After being heavily warned, they decided they would still go because God would protect them because of their faith. That was not faith, but that was stupidity. The same thing goes for our day. When God warns us to get our food storage and then the yolks hit the fan, we will know that if we had obeyed, we would not have suffered. Truly it is disobedience and ignorance and breaking God's commandments that cause suffering.

When Jesus was tempted of the devil while fasting, Jesus told Him that we are not to live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. When we do that, no one can hurt us spiritually. And when we walk in the spirit, we have no fear. Nothing, not life, nor death, nor chains, nor bars, nor prison, nor height nor depths, can separate us from the Love of the Lord. (Romans 8:31-39)

"If one finds himself or herself suffering,it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do, because sin is the cause of suffering."
"When we do that, no one can hurt us spiritually."

Do you really want to go there? Let's see if you can support your beliefs.
On June 5, 2002 Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped, forced to go through some kind of twisted marriage ceremony, then raped. She was held captive for nine months and seven days, and raped many times during her captivity. She found herself suffering and spiritually hurt, leading to the question of what sins she committed to cause herself to suffer. If you are correct and suffering is caused by individual sin, doesn't it follow that all of her suffering while abducted is because of her own sins?

She describes herself as trying to live by the word of God. After she was raped the first time, she remembered many lessons at church where a woman who wasn't a virgin was compared to chewed up bubblegum, causing more suffering and further stripping her self esteem. But this only happened because she was sinning and not living by the word of God, right?

If a family member is murdered and you suffer at all, is it because you aren't righteous or faithful enough? And between the death and restoration of Lazarus, when Jesus wept with Lazarus' family members, was His sadness and emotional pain due to His unworthiness or lack of faith?

If someone loses a job and remains unemployed long enough to have their house foreclosed on, if a woman feels forced into divorce because her husband becomes a drug addict, or if a guy is served with a divorce petition after he comes home early and finds his wife banging the neighbor, are these people suffering because they sinned or because they aren't faithful enough?

If I cited General Conference talks teaching us that we will all feel pain and suffer because of the actions of others, but that the pain can be mitigated to a degree through faithfulness, will you dispute Apostles and Prophets who say you won't escape life without suffering because of others?

[Juliet]

I think sometimes righteous people bear the burdens of wicked people because they love them. No greater love hath a man than he give his life for his friends. Other than that, no, there is no need for the righteous to suffer; we have all the tools to defeat Satan and to restore to us our blessings. I know Satan steals our blessings, but then we need to make sure we don't let him do that. We have a right to our inheritance in the Lord.

There's no need for the righteous to suffer? When Ammon and the sons of Mosiah were imprisoned at the beginning of their mission to the Lamanites, when Abinadai was tortured to death under orders from King Noah, when Alma and Amulek were imprisoned by the people of Ammonihah, or when the believers in Ammonihah were murdered by being thrown into a bonfire the suffering was unnecessary because we have the tools to defeat Satan?

I disagree. Suffering is necessary to refine us. Suffering at the hands of the wicked is necessary so the judgements against them will be just.

We all suffer in body, but suffering in body can be handled if one is walking in the spirit and not after the flesh. Suffering is necessary to refine the wickedness out of us. You should not go torture your innocent children because it is necessary to refine them. That is a mental illness. Suffering usually isn't God's purpose for the righteous unless it is to help bear someone else's burden of sin to help them repent, and that is done by permission of the individual. Abinadi was willing to die to help Alma see the light, that would have been a contract Abinadi made with God spiritually because of His desire to bring God's kingdom to earth. God's burden is easy and light. Suffering comes from the adversary, not God, and the righteous have peace no matter what they endure in this life. It is truly only the wicked who suffer and that is only so they will repent because God is just. If one finds himself or herself suffering,it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do, because sin is the cause of suffering. That shouldn't be a big surprize, we are all sinners and we all need to repent, and until we do we all are going to have suffering. So in that sense, suffering does refine us, but it is the consequence of our sin and not a consequence of being righteous. I do admit that Satan does steal blessings from the righteous, all of Satan's power comes from taking away blessings from God's children. So we need to fight that and get our blessings back because it is our birthright.

Lots of people refer to the Willie and Martin handcart companies as evidence of sacrifice for God. But they were warned by the guide to not go, but to stay at Winter Quarters until after winter. After being heavily warned, they decided they would still go because God would protect them because of their faith. That was not faith, but that was stupidity. The same thing goes for our day. When God warns us to get our food storage and then the yolks hit the fan, we will know that if we had obeyed, we would not have suffered. Truly it is disobedience and ignorance and breaking God's commandments that cause suffering.

When Jesus was tempted of the devil while fasting, Jesus told Him that we are not to live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. When we do that, no one can hurt us spiritually. And when we walk in the spirit, we have no fear. Nothing, not life, nor death, nor chains, nor bars, nor prison, nor height nor depths, can separate us from the Love of the Lord. (Romans 8:31-39)

"If one finds himself or herself suffering,it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do, because sin is the cause of suffering."
"When we do that, no one can hurt us spiritually."

Do you really want to go there? Let's see if you can support your beliefs.
On June 5, 2002 Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped, forced to go through some kind of twisted marriage ceremony, then raped. She was held captive for nine months and seven days, and raped many times during her captivity. She found herself suffering and spiritually hurt, leading to the question of what sins she committed to cause herself to suffer. If you are correct and suffering is caused by individual sin, doesn't it follow that all of her suffering while abducted is because of her own sins?

She describes herself as trying to live by the word of God. After she was raped the first time, she remembered many lessons at church where a woman who wasn't a virgin was compared to chewed up bubblegum, causing more suffering and further stripping her self esteem. But this only happened because she was sinning and not living by the word of God, right?

If a family member is murdered and you suffer at all, is it because you aren't righteous or faithful enough? And between the death and restoration of Lazarus, when Jesus wept with Lazarus' family members, was His sadness and emotional pain due to His unworthiness or lack of faith?

If someone loses a job and remains unemployed long enough to have their house foreclosed on, if a woman feels forced into divorce because her husband becomes a drug addict, or if a guy is served with a divorce petition after he comes home early and finds his wife banging the neighbor, are these people suffering because they sinned or because they aren't faithful enough?

If I cited General Conference talks teaching us that we will all feel pain and suffer because of the actions of others, but that the pain can be mitigated to a degree through faithfulness, will you dispute Apostles and Prophets who say you won't escape life without suffering because of others?

No, I don't think her suffering was because of her own sins. But I also don't think God requires us to suffer because that would mean it would be necessary for her to suffer in order to be refined. I am trying to say that God does not require us to go through horrible things like what Elizabeth Smart went through in order to be perfected. Maybe there are those who make deals to endure such horrible things for some good end, but I don't think those things are necessary for our learning and exaltation. In fact, if we were less prone to believing suffering is a part of our existence, then we would get up and do something to stop all the suffering in the world because it is done by Satan and as God's children we do have power over it if we would do the necessary spiritual warfare.

I never meant to say that suffering doesn't happen, what I am trying to say, is that suffering is usually not God's will. And we ought to make sure God's will is done, so horrible things such as in Elizabeth Smarts' case do not happen.

[Juliet]

There's no need for the righteous to suffer? When Ammon and the sons of Mosiah were imprisoned at the beginning of their mission to the Lamanites, when Abinadai was tortured to death under orders from King Noah, when Alma and Amulek were imprisoned by the people of Ammonihah, or when the believers in Ammonihah were murdered by being thrown into a bonfire the suffering was unnecessary because we have the tools to defeat Satan?

I disagree. Suffering is necessary to refine us. Suffering at the hands of the wicked is necessary so the judgements against them will be just.

We all suffer in body, but suffering in body can be handled if one is walking in the spirit and not after the flesh. Suffering is necessary to refine the wickedness out of us. You should not go torture your innocent children because it is necessary to refine them. That is a mental illness. Suffering usually isn't God's purpose for the righteous unless it is to help bear someone else's burden of sin to help them repent, and that is done by permission of the individual. Abinadi was willing to die to help Alma see the light, that would have been a contract Abinadi made with God spiritually because of His desire to bring God's kingdom to earth. God's burden is easy and light. Suffering comes from the adversary, not God, and the righteous have peace no matter what they endure in this life. It is truly only the wicked who suffer and that is only so they will repent because God is just. If one finds himself or herself suffering,it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do, because sin is the cause of suffering. That shouldn't be a big surprize, we are all sinners and we all need to repent, and until we do we all are going to have suffering. So in that sense, suffering does refine us, but it is the consequence of our sin and not a consequence of being righteous. I do admit that Satan does steal blessings from the righteous, all of Satan's power comes from taking away blessings from God's children. So we need to fight that and get our blessings back because it is our birthright.

Lots of people refer to the Willie and Martin handcart companies as evidence of sacrifice for God. But they were warned by the guide to not go, but to stay at Winter Quarters until after winter. After being heavily warned, they decided they would still go because God would protect them because of their faith. That was not faith, but that was stupidity. The same thing goes for our day. When God warns us to get our food storage and then the yolks hit the fan, we will know that if we had obeyed, we would not have suffered. Truly it is disobedience and ignorance and breaking God's commandments that cause suffering.

When Jesus was tempted of the devil while fasting, Jesus told Him that we are not to live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. When we do that, no one can hurt us spiritually. And when we walk in the spirit, we have no fear. Nothing, not life, nor death, nor chains, nor bars, nor prison, nor height nor depths, can separate us from the Love of the Lord. (Romans 8:31-39)

"If one finds himself or herself suffering,it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do, because sin is the cause of suffering."
"When we do that, no one can hurt us spiritually."

Do you really want to go there? Let's see if you can support your beliefs.
On June 5, 2002 Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped, forced to go through some kind of twisted marriage ceremony, then raped. She was held captive for nine months and seven days, and raped many times during her captivity. She found herself suffering and spiritually hurt, leading to the question of what sins she committed to cause herself to suffer. If you are correct and suffering is caused by individual sin, doesn't it follow that all of her suffering while abducted is because of her own sins?

She describes herself as trying to live by the word of God. After she was raped the first time, she remembered many lessons at church where a woman who wasn't a virgin was compared to chewed up bubblegum, causing more suffering and further stripping her self esteem. But this only happened because she was sinning and not living by the word of God, right?

If a family member is murdered and you suffer at all, is it because you aren't righteous or faithful enough? And between the death and restoration of Lazarus, when Jesus wept with Lazarus' family members, was His sadness and emotional pain due to His unworthiness or lack of faith?

If someone loses a job and remains unemployed long enough to have their house foreclosed on, if a woman feels forced into divorce because her husband becomes a drug addict, or if a guy is served with a divorce petition after he comes home early and finds his wife banging the neighbor, are these people suffering because they sinned or because they aren't faithful enough?

If I cited General Conference talks teaching us that we will all feel pain and suffer because of the actions of others, but that the pain can be mitigated to a degree through faithfulness, will you dispute Apostles and Prophets who say you won't escape life without suffering because of others?

No, I don't think her suffering was because of her own sins. But I also don't think God requires us to suffer because that would mean it would be necessary for her to suffer in order to be refined. I am trying to say that God does not require us to go through horrible things like what Elizabeth Smart went through in order to be perfected. Maybe there are those who make deals to endure such horrible things for some good end, but I don't think those things are necessary for our learning and exaltation. In fact, if we were less prone to believing suffering is a part of our existence, then we would get up and do something to stop all the suffering in the world because it is done by Satan and as God's children we do have power over it if we would do the necessary spiritual warfare.

I never meant to say that suffering doesn't happen, what I am trying to say, is that suffering is usually not God's will. And we ought to make sure God's will is done in a collective sense, so horrible things such as in Elizabeth Smarts' case do not happen. Other people choose to hurt others and make them suffer and that is part of life for now, but it is not God's will for us to suffer, it is God's will for us to have joy; and it is not necessary to suffer in order to become righteous enough.

[brianj]

No, I don't think her suffering was because of her own sins. But I also don't think God requires us to suffer because that would mean it would be necessary for her to suffer in order to be refined. I am trying to say that God does not require us to go through horrible things like what Elizabeth Smart went through in order to be perfected. Maybe there are those who make deals to endure such horrible things for some good end, but I don't think those things are necessary for our learning and exaltation. In fact, if we were less prone to believing suffering is a part of our existence, then we would get up and do something to stop all the suffering in the world because it is done by Satan and as God's children we do have power over it if we would do the necessary spiritual warfare.

I never meant to say that suffering doesn't happen, what I am trying to say, is that suffering is usually not God's will. And we ought to make sure God's will is done, so horrible things such as in Elizabeth Smarts' case do not happen.

If we can agree that suffering does happen, and that Heavenly Father allows good people to suffer at the hands of the wicked, but that Heavenly Father will help the righteous to accept and endure their suffering, then I am satisfied that we're on the same page.

Heavenly Father expects us to endure painful situations, but He doesn't necessarily cause those situations to happen. And He doesn't prevent us from suffering because of the acts of wicked people. These situations aren't necessary for us to become exalted, and someone can reach the Celestial Kingdom without ever suffering at the hands of the wicked (I'm thinking of the first generation of Nephites born after the Savior visited), but suffering does happen and we should support those who are suffering.

[gardener4life]

I think he's very interested in what we do when we see others suffer and don't do anything about it? (But in following that it's hard when I am only me and don't have more of me while my body gets weary and tired.)

[Finrock]

I think sometimes righteous people bear the burdens of wicked people because they love them. No greater love hath a man than he give his life for his friends. Other than that, no, there is no need for the righteous to suffer; we have all the tools to defeat Satan and to restore to us our blessings. I know Satan steals our blessings, but then we need to make sure we don't let him do that. We have a right to our inheritance in the Lord.

There's no need for the righteous to suffer? When Ammon and the sons of Mosiah were imprisoned at the beginning of their mission to the Lamanites, when Abinadai was tortured to death under orders from King Noah, when Alma and Amulek were imprisoned by the people of Ammonihah, or when the believers in Ammonihah were murdered by being thrown into a bonfire the suffering was unnecessary because we have the tools to defeat Satan?

I disagree. Suffering is necessary to refine us. Suffering at the hands of the wicked is necessary so the judgements against them will be just.

We all suffer in body, but suffering in body can be handled if one is walking in the spirit and not after the flesh. Suffering is necessary to refine the wickedness out of us. You should not go torture your innocent children because it is necessary to refine them. That is a mental illness. Suffering usually isn't God's purpose for the righteous unless it is to help bear someone else's burden of sin to help them repent, and that is done by permission of the individual. Abinadi was willing to die to help Alma see the light, that would have been a contract Abinadi made with God spiritually because of His desire to bring God's kingdom to earth. God's burden is easy and light. Suffering comes from the adversary, not God, and the righteous have peace no matter what they endure in this life. It is truly only the wicked who suffer and that is only so they will repent because God is just. If one finds himself or herself suffering,it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do, because sin is the cause of suffering. That shouldn't be a big surprize, we are all sinners and we all need to repent, and until we do we all are going to have suffering. So in that sense, suffering does refine us, but it is the consequence of our sin and not a consequence of being righteous. I do admit that Satan does steal blessings from the righteous, all of Satan's power comes from taking away blessings from God's children. So we need to fight that and get our blessings back because it is our birthright.

Lots of people refer to the Willie and Martin handcart companies as evidence of sacrifice for God. But they were warned by the guide to not go, but to stay at Winter Quarters until after winter. After being heavily warned, they decided they would still go because God would protect them because of their faith. That was not faith, but that was stupidity. The same thing goes for our day. When God warns us to get our food storage and then the yolks hit the fan, we will know that if we had obeyed, we would not have suffered. Truly it is disobedience and ignorance and breaking God's commandments that cause suffering.

When Jesus was tempted of the devil while fasting, Jesus told Him that we are not to live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. When we do that, no one can hurt us spiritually. And when we walk in the spirit, we have no fear. Nothing, not life, nor death, nor chains, nor bars, nor prison, nor height nor depths, can separate us from the Love of the Lord. (Romans 8:31-39)

"If one finds himself or herself suffering,it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do, because sin is the cause of suffering."
"When we do that, no one can hurt us spiritually."

Do you really want to go there? Let's see if you can support your beliefs.
On June 5, 2002 Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped, forced to go through some kind of twisted marriage ceremony, then raped. She was held captive for nine months and seven days, and raped many times during her captivity. She found herself suffering and spiritually hurt, leading to the question of what sins she committed to cause herself to suffer. If you are correct and suffering is caused by individual sin, doesn't it follow that all of her suffering while abducted is because of her own sins?

She describes herself as trying to live by the word of God. After she was raped the first time, she remembered many lessons at church where a woman who wasn't a virgin was compared to chewed up bubblegum, causing more suffering and further stripping her self esteem. But this only happened because she was sinning and not living by the word of God, right?

If a family member is murdered and you suffer at all, is it because you aren't righteous or faithful enough? And between the death and restoration of Lazarus, when Jesus wept with Lazarus' family members, was His sadness and emotional pain due to His unworthiness or lack of faith?

If someone loses a job and remains unemployed long enough to have their house foreclosed on, if a woman feels forced into divorce because her husband becomes a drug addict, or if a guy is served with a divorce petition after he comes home early and finds his wife banging the neighbor, are these people suffering because they sinned or because they aren't faithful enough?

If I cited General Conference talks teaching us that we will all feel pain and suffer because of the actions of others, but that the pain can be mitigated to a degree through faithfulness, will you dispute Apostles and Prophets who say you won't escape life without suffering because of others?

Not all suffering is a result of personal sin but like Juliet said, if you find yourself suffering it wouldn't hurt to look inside to see if there is some repenting you need to do. Its a good place to start. Even if personal sin isn't the cause of your personal suffering eventually you will need to look on the inside for a solution to how you are feeling and the suffering that you are experiencing.

A person isn't to blame for abuse that is inflicted upon them. They didn't cause the abuse or are they responsible for it. Given these facts, eventually a person who has been abused will need to stop being a victim and become a survivor. Eventually, to move from being a victim, a person must look on the inside to find a solution to end the suffering they are experiencing, even suffering that was caused at the hands of others. To keep being a victim is to keep allowing people to have power and control over you. To experience freedom from suffering and personal freedom in life one must realize that the means and the power to stop experiencing suffering is within them. Eventually the choices that you make in almost all cases will determine the type of life that you have and the amount of suffering that you experience. It is at the same time liberating and terrifying to recognize that you are accountable and responsible for your own happiness. It is liberating because it means others can't control you and have no power over you. It is terrifying because you can't blame others or use circumstances as an excuse.

We may not be able to change circumstances or conditions but for the most part we have power to change and to control how we perceive or how we choose to experience whatever circumstance or condition that we may be in or that we may have.

-Finrock