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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
For me, if I go to church, the children go to church, and that is every Sunday. If they are too tired because of Saturday night date, prom or whatever. Then they need to come home earlier. I don't look at it as taking away agency, I look at it as stewardship. You don't let immature children make those kind of choices.
Sounds like you have a strong spirit and testimony! I am so happy you made such a good choice at a young age, truly valiant..
Sounds like you have a strong spirit and testimony! I am so happy you made such a good choice at a young age, truly valiant..
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
Hopefully there are a lot more positives than that about your dad. Despite not being LDS, is he religious/spiritual at all?
It's great to be able to make choices that result in happiness (such as with your choice regarding the gospel and church).
It's great to be able to make choices that result in happiness (such as with your choice regarding the gospel and church).
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
I think it's hypocritical to force kids to go to church so they can learn about how the Lord honors free agency.
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
Not run into the street, wash their hair, go to bed. Yeah, I force them sometimes. I just think it's hypocritical to force them to go to church.
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
Elder Christofferson said in his talk "Moral Discipline":
I have heard a few parents state that they don’t want to impose the gospel on their children but want them to make up their own minds about what they will believe and follow. They think that in this way they are allowing children to exercise their agency. What they forget is that the intelligent use of agency requires knowledge of the truth, of things as they really are (see D&C 93:24). Without that, young people can hardly be expected to understand and evaluate the alternatives that come before them. Parents should consider how the adversary approaches their children. He and his followers are not promoting objectivity but are vigorous, multimedia advocates of sin and selfishness.
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
I guess I don't see the difference.
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
Actually, forcing a child to go to Church does not take away their agency. They still have their agency but you are limiting their freedom. Agency vs Freedom vs Liberty (there is a significant distinction between each that people often miss).
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
Can you by chance point to some material I could read up on that expounds in those points? Particularly in breaking down agency, freedom, and liberty?
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2009/06/mora ... y?lang=engJonesy1982 wrote: ↑July 29th, 2017, 9:05 pmCan you by chance point to some material I could read up on that expounds in those points? Particularly in breaking down agency, freedom, and liberty?
http://www.latterdayconservative.com/bl ... d-liberty/
http://www.latterdayconservative.com/ed ... happiness/
http://www.latterdayconservative.com/blog/moral-agency/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgvbRQHgpd8
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
I would have thought the distinction was obvious: physical versus spiritual. The ones have physical consequences while the other have spiritual consequences.
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
Now, where did I say anything about taking away agency? ;)
Regardless of whether you are taking away agency or limiting freedom, I still believe it is hypocritical.
- cyclOps
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
Forcing them to go to church is physical, is it not?
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
Yes, it is. And that's exactly why people force their kids to go to church, because of the physical consequences they want their children to experience.....
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
You didn't. It was just an opportunity to talk more about agency.
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Re: 1 positive about me having a non member dad
Exactly! How can a child make a decision without being taught. Agency or making a choice means learning something then choosing not to believe it.Jonesy1982 wrote: ↑July 29th, 2017, 8:32 pm Elder Christofferson said in his talk "Moral Discipline":
I have heard a few parents state that they don’t want to impose the gospel on their children but want them to make up their own minds about what they will believe and follow. They think that in this way they are allowing children to exercise their agency. What they forget is that the intelligent use of agency requires knowledge of the truth, of things as they really are (see D&C 93:24). Without that, young people can hardly be expected to understand and evaluate the alternatives that come before them. Parents should consider how the adversary approaches their children. He and his followers are not promoting objectivity but are vigorous, multimedia advocates of sin and selfishness.