Deleted

[inho]

Jesus:

all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword

Matt 26:52

What's your point? We know that physical death isn't the end of anything but mortality. Perishing with the sword, in defense of true principles or innocent victims, is an honorable death.

I agree with you. Scriptures make it clear that sometimes the use of weapons is the preferable alternative. However, personally I don't think that it is necessary to carry weapons. There is the risk that if the only tool you have is the hammer you start to see everything as nails, i.e., you might use weapons when there would be better options. The only time Jesus used violence (if you may call it that) was when he cleansed the temple. That was a premeditated act, he made the whip for that specific purpose. Jesus also taught us that we shoul turn the other cheek. The bad guys don't always play according to the rules and might do more than just slap us. Sure, with a weapon we could defend, but is it always necessary? As you said, the physical death is not the end.

[Doug]

In a telestial world, A well armed society is a polite society.

[Doug]

Since Captain Moroni and Ammon both are great followers of Christ,
What was your question?

[Doug]

Since Captain Moroni and Ammon both are great followers of Christ,
What was your question?

Would you rather live a life where you're at war all the time which could happen soon with North Korea launching missles or would you rather live a life devoted to peace, giving, and sacrifice.

Now, that depends more on my enemies than it does me. If everyone would just respect the rights of others, then ...

[mirkwood]

That contradiction is a good case of: did Jesus really say that or is the record of what he said an imperfect transmission with errors in it?

In the Book Of Mormon we are taught self defense. If you believe in the BoM then the answer is pretty clear.



Celestial Angel: if you don't think you should be around dangerous weapons, then don't be around them. But don't think that means the rest of us are subject to that thought process.

[cyclOps]

No, Jesus is not against carrying weapons.

[Doug]

No, Jesus is not against carrying weapons.

WOW, simple, direct, and true.
Previously given supporting arguments succinctly summarized.
Asked and answered.
Next question.

[cyclOps]

While you might not like me preaching only peace I apologize I'm just surrounded by people who want me to get weapons. I've met a lot of preppers since I moved to Utah while I lived my first 30 years in east coast liberal anti gun anti weapon Massachusetts so I have life bias. I have a food storage with extra food so I can give during when food storage may be needed to help feed others.

Just because Jesus isn't against carrying weapons doesn't mean you have to carry one.

I'm not against you preaching only peace. I hope and pray for peace on earth. That is one reason I long for the second coming. Also, saying it's OK to carry weapons isn't preaching against peace.

If someone threatens my life they are not being peaceful. I would then end the violence and establish peace by defending my life with the least amount of force necessary to overcome my attacker. If that requires a weapon then so be it.

[mirkwood]

While you might not like me preaching only peace I apologize I'm just surrounded by people who want me to get weapons. I've met a lot of preppers since I moved to Utah while I lived my first 30 years in east coast liberal anti gun anti weapon Massachusetts so I have life bias. I have a food storage with extra food so I can give during when food storage may be needed to help feed others.

See the above post by Cyclops.

[gardener4life]

Why do other countries want to strip us of our gun rights so badly? Why do they want to strip away our other freedoms? Why do they hate the true followers of Christ so much?

It's true that the bigger your testimony is the more you are concerned about picking up a gun. But it is a fact that we wouldn't be able to have a missionary force without an 'infrastructure' of a strong country supporting it and the stakes of Zion to be able to grow with and have been blessed by this countries strong defense; and also to promote stability. So for now while there are people willing to be temple worthy and follow Christ we're behind enemy lines almost as it were, living in a Gentile nation. Men do die and bleed to protect our freedoms. That is a sacred honor to them that they do so. It's let our country progress and grow the stakes of Zion because of others giving us the time to prepare.

For that to happen we needed gun rights and still do. With no gun rights could be remain a free people? I think not. When you look at other countries that have no gun rights look how oppressed they are? In Japan you get worked to death, many men die before reaching 40 years old, having to work 16 hours a day easily, but they'll say it's less on paper but I've known Japanese people in real life. Also there are other countries ruled by crime, or ruled by tyrants like Stalin.

We would have no religious freedom if we lived in such places.

And with no sacrifice none of the work could go forward. So you can bet those who serve their country will be able to have eternal progression, but subject to where their hearts are also.

We have needed stability to do the work to this point. It's righteous for it to be this way, that is until we've started to forget God and worship money like we're doing now. Where we err is not in guns but in our worship of money, idols, and taking away the future of the obedient and giving it to the disobedient.

To be fair, Joseph Smith carrying a gun; he never meant to actually use it but use it to scare them away. He knew and had already seen that he would return to Heavenly Father soon.

[mirkwood]

Are missionaries especially in dangerous places allowed to carry weapons of self defense?

No.

[brianj]

Are missionaries especially in dangerous places allowed to carry weapons of self defense?

No.

Is it because of image or the idea that when missionaries are set apart they are more protected?

I don't think that an explicit reason has ever been given, and I do believe that missionaries are given additional spiritual protection most of the time. However, this is not a 100% protection. Missionaries have been murdered, raped, assaulted, kidnapped, blown up, etc. Those events are terrible, but I'm sure the victims will be blessed for what they suffer.

[shadow]

I have a food storage with extra food so I can give during when food storage may be needed to help feed others.

Sweet. I'm sure mobs or gangs are just looking for a little snack and will leave you alone after you make them a PB&J sandwich 8-|

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09COwd_ ... 3ZozRU8bo0 -(It's just a movie, nobody actually dies)
Scan up to just before 54 minutes and see what you'll be in for- minus the conversation. You won't get any warning.
Are you a woman? Have any daughters? Even some early saints when driven out were raped.

[Thinker]

Some people carry guns and knives even just for self defense. From all scriptures I've read it seems more like Jesus would want us to bury our weapons of war or not have weapons that can kill or hurt.

Yes, most of the time.
But consider Jesus's rope and when he saw people using the temple to make money, he whipped them out of there. Righteous anger is rare though.

Personally, I believe in & will defend right to bare arms, considering the history of & real possibility of government overpowering people. However, I'm also very much in favor of vigilant safety precautions & prefer not to have guns around me & my kids.

[Alaris]

Some people carry guns and knives even just for self defense. From all scriptures I've read it seems more like Jesus would want us to bury our weapons of war or not have weapons that can kill or hurt.

Yes, most of the time.
But consider Jesus's rope and when he saw people using the temple to make money, he whipped them out of there. Righteous anger is rare though.

Personally, I believe in & will defend right to bare arms, considering the history of & real possibility of government overpowering people. However, I'm also very much in favor of vigilant safety precautions & prefer not to have guns around me & my kids.

CelestialAngel,

I've mentioned elsewhere that if you want to find out what's important to God look no further than where the adversary fights and screams the loudest. Those who stand for the slaughter of the unborn also stand almost universally for disarming the populace which serves no other purpose than embolden criminals, enemies, and gadiantons...the ends of the adversary. Our countrys founding was inspired so says the Book of Mormon. The right to bear arms is one of the pillars of freedom. If we universally disarmed ourselves, the rest of our freedoms would quickly follow suit. I encourage you research those who stand for disarming the populace.

[Alaris]

Some people carry guns and knives even just for self defense. From all scriptures I've read it seems more like Jesus would want us to bury our weapons of war or not have weapons that can kill or hurt.

Yes, most of the time.
But consider Jesus's rope and when he saw people using the temple to make money, he whipped them out of there. Righteous anger is rare though.

Personally, I believe in & will defend right to bare arms, considering the history of & real possibility of government overpowering people. However, I'm also very much in favor of vigilant safety precautions & prefer not to have guns around me & my kids.

CelestialAngel,

I've mentioned elsewhere that if you want to find out what's important to God look no further than where the adversary fights and screams the loudest. Those who stand for the slaughter of the unborn also stand almost universally for disarming the populace which serves no other purpose than embolden criminals, enemies, and gadiantons...the ends of the adversary. Our countrys founding was inspired so says the Book of Mormon. The right to bear arms is one of the pillars of freedom. If we universally disarmed ourselves, the rest of our freedoms would quickly follow suit. I encourage you research those who stand for disarming the populace.

I don't think I came across clear in this thread. I was mainly saying that I personally shouldnt and won t have weapons. Nothing more than that then I got out of control in this thread. Sorry everybody.

No need to apologize. It's absolutely a personal decision. The only point I'm making is there is a reason the gadiantons want us disarmed. That alone is a great reason to arm. Godspeed brother.

[Alaris]

I have 5 mental disabilities too I shouldnt be around dangerous weapons just in case.

If you happen to be near me and my family you can join our trek to ZION ;)

[brianj]

All of you are probably in for a surprise. I read again the parts of the Book of Mormon with Captain Moroni and prayed about self defense so I got a sharp law enforcement pocket knife, a real Japanese sharp red katana and next Saturday I'm taking my 4 hour class to get my concealed permit to carry in Utah and I went to the gun store and then an indoor range to test a few and I liked the gloc 17. But all for self defense and I won t say what my job is but it involves defense and I get a raise if I get my concealed permit. And they said the permit can cover swords and knives so I might just always leave the gun in a lockbox at home but haven't decided yet. Because of my martial arts training and being a 3rd degree black belt I'm more trained with the katana but I'll be going to indoor ranges and target practicing along with getting used to using the gun more in case I ever need to protect someone. The concealed class is next Saturday and they said it would take 1 to 2 months to actually get my permit in the mail.

The Glock 17 is a good, well designed, and reliable firearm, but for duty use I would prefer the smaller and lighter Glock 19.
Either of these is going to be uncomfortably bulky and heavy as an everyday carry weapon. If you are really fond of Glock pistols I would suggest taking a good look at the Glock 43.

[mirkwood]

I've carried a Glock 17 as my duty weapon for 20 years. I also carry it off duty. No issues.

As for a Utah CCW, it does not cover edged weapons, only firearms.

[Doug]

I've carried a Glock 17 as my duty weapon for 20 years. I also carry it off duty. No issues.

As for a Utah CCW, it does not cover edged weapons, only firearms.

While the 2nd Amendment says the right to bare arms shall not be abridged,
Government has chosen to exercise tyranny only over fire arms.

[Doug]

I've carried a Glock 17 as my duty weapon for 20 years. I also carry it off duty. No issues.

As for a Utah CCW, it does not cover edged weapons, only firearms.

Good to know Thanks! I didn't know it only covered firearms. I'll make sure my katana stays at home. What about pocket knifes? I'm required to carry one for work but wondering if I'm allowed to carry it in public.

I think you misunderstand, the government makes no attempt to limit baring edge weapons, at least in Utah.
There is no law restricting carrying knives and swords.
Having said that, cops do shoot people for it though.

[Doug]

Legally, you can walk down the street carrying them in the open, but if a cop feels threatened, he'll shoot you
and qualified immunity will absolve him, even though you were completely within your rights.

What I'm saying is what is legal and what cops allow are two different things, depending on the cop.
Open carry of firearms is legal in Utah, no permit required. But that does not prevent you from being
arrested for "contempt of cop" or some other trumped up charge.

[Doug]

Legally, you can walk down the street carrying them in the open, but if a cop feels threatened, he'll shoot you
and qualified immunity will absolve him, even though you were completely within your rights.

What I'm saying is what is legal and what cops allow are two different things, depending on the cop.
Open carry of firearms is legal in Utah, no permit required. But that does not prevent you from being
arrested for "contempt of cop" or some other trumped up charge.

Well I think just leaving the katana in its sheath in my trunk shouldnt cause problems.

Probably wise.

[mirkwood]

Well I think just leaving the katana in its sheath in my trunk shouldnt cause problems.

Don't mind the anti-police rhetoric around here. For some it is their hobby.

[Doug]

Well I think just leaving the katana in its sheath in my trunk shouldnt cause problems.

Don't mind the anti-police rhetoric around here. For some it is their hobby.

And for others, it's a personal experience.