Have we neglected the Word of Wisdom?

[Irrelevant]

Were the saints in the habit of using cocaine?

You are correct that every single item that should not be consumed is not listed in the WOW.

However, dairy, eggs, and oils were in frequent use among the saints. The fact that the WOW does not mention them is significant. Wheareas it is not significant when referencing things like cocaine and twinkies.

The Word of Wisdom is more important today than when it was given. The pioneers didn't have to worry about fast food places either.

Dairy is a problem (from The Cheese Trap):

Cheese is tasty, in an old-socks kind of way. Lots of people love it. So, apart from the occasional leaping maggot, what harm could it do? Well, have a look at what the cheese-making process actually does:

• First, it concentrates calories. A cup of milk has 149 calories; a cup of melted Cheddar has close to a thousand (986, to be exact). If you’re thinking metric, 200 grams of milk has 122 calories; 200 grams of Cheddar has 808.

• Second, it concentrates dairy proteins, particularly casein. For some people, these proteins trigger respiratory symptoms, migraines, arthritis, skin conditions, and other problems.

• Third, it concentrates cholesterol and saturated fat, the “bad fat” that raises cholesterol levels and increases the risk of heart disease and Alzheimer’s disease.

• As if all that were not enough, there is enough salt in cheese to contribute to high blood pressure. Along with it, cheese contains a variety of chemicals, from hormones to opiates, that makes it a product like no other.

Two Steps for Getting Started Ready for a diet change?

It’s actually surprisingly easy. We have developed a two-step approach in our research studies with hundreds of people, and I have never heard of anyone unable to do this:

Step 1: Check out the possibilities. Don’t change your diet yet. You’re not ready. Instead, take a week or so to see what foods you might like. I suggest you take a piece of paper and write down four categories: breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks. Then, over the next week, jot down foods that are free of animal products and fit into each category. The idea is to find foods you like. You’ll find many ideas in the recipe section (here).

Step 2: Do a three-week test drive. Once you’ve found the foods you like, put a healthy diet to a three-week test. For twenty-one days, have your diet be 100 percent plant-based, choosing from the foods you already know you like. Don’t set a foot wrong. Really do it, so you can see how you feel. If you like how you’re feeling, stick with it.

Jump In!

There is nothing quite like the feeling of being healthy and in control. Now that you know how a healthful diet works, let me encourage you to give it a try.

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When did all of these books and videos you cite become part of the WOW? You insistence on calling your own faith-base nutrition religion the WOW is immoral.

I have no problem with you proselytizing your nutrition religion. But please stop acting as though it is part of the WOW. The Lord spoke. He did not include diary, oils, or eggs.. no matter how much you wanted him to.

I would say immoral is the way animals are treated and killed to satisfy our lust for meat and dairy. Do you know how a dairy cow is treated?

Let us not defile ourselves, but be like Daniel:

Pulse: IE foods made of seeds, grains, etc. Mosiah 9:9 (8–9); D&C 89:14
9 And we began to till the ground, yea, even with all manner of seeds, with seeds of corn, and of wheat, and of barley, and with neas, and with sheum, and with seeds of all manner of fruits;

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

It doesn't say anything about impregnating cows to keep their milk flowing, ripping their calves away from them, sending them to the slaughter and once the cow's production declines, sending her to the slaughter to satisfy the lusts of us.

Aren't we smart enough to figure that out?

Smart or not, this still doesn't make dairy part of the WoW.

[Yahtzee]

I know people who keep their own jersey cows and treat them and their babies wonderfully. That's Not mentioned in the WOW either. Not all dairy is created equal. You should read what elder Widtsoe wrote about milk. I'll take an apostles studied words over any anecdote or factory farm story. There's other options.
I keep backyard chickens. They have a happy life and keep us in good supply of fresh eggs. I know exactly what they eat and feel like we have a symbiotic relationship. I know the Lord approves of them for my family.
My opinion is that the WOW can easily be interpreted to mean we shouldn't eat anything processed. Yeah, there's a big difference between a family kept cow or laying hens and a big factory farm. The nutrition is different. But that can't mean ALL dairy, eggs, or oils are bad.
If it isn't strictly addressed in the WOW, I believe the Lord expects us to use prudence and prayer to determine if it is good for our individual bodies.

[Arenera]

I know people who keep their own jersey cows and treat them and their babies wonderfully. That's Not mentioned in the WOW either. Not all dairy is created equal. You should read what elder Widtsoe wrote about milk. I'll take an apostles studied words over any anecdote or factory farm story. There's other options.
I keep backyard chickens. They have a happy life and keep us in good supply of fresh eggs. I know exactly what they eat and feel like we have a symbiotic relationship. I know the Lord approves of them for my family.
My opinion is that the WOW can easily be interpreted to mean we shouldn't eat anything processed. Yeah, there's a big difference between a family kept cow or laying hens and a big factory farm. The nutrition is different. But that can't mean ALL dairy, eggs, or oils are bad.
If it isn't strictly addressed in the WOW, I believe the Lord expects us to use prudence and prayer to determine if it is good for our individual bodies.

Your animals are treated far more kindly than the places supplying the meat and dairy for the US.

From Discovering the Word of Wisdom:

Their 1937 book, The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation.

The answer is obvious: It is evident that people of the Church are not observing fully all the factors of health as given in the Word of Wisdom. . . . One can not say that to refrain from smoking and from drinking tea, coffee or alcohol is to keep fully the Word of Wisdom. . . .

The many “do’s” in the inspired document are as important as the “don’t’s.”

Unquestionably, the Word of Wisdom is not lived completely or the people would receive a greater fullness of the promised reward—a long life of physical health, while the destroying angel of sickness and death would pass by and not slay them. (pp. 20–21)

Scientific knowledge concerning man’s diet is yet in its infancy. Many new angles to old truths are constantly being discovered. When such are definitely established in the best laboratories of nutrition to be facts, not mere theories, then they may be accepted and used, and they will be found to be in harmony with the general principles set forth by the Word of Wisdom. (p. 233)

"Since the 1950s, the evidence that animal foods are not optimal for the human body has continued to grow. Notwithstanding the amount of evidence that has accumulated, the Widtsoes would have been astonished to learn that most Latter-day Saints today are as prejudiced in favor of meat as they were in the Widtsoes’ day.

Although much of the science the Widtsoes outline in their book is now dated, their primary claims have been verified by further research, and yet the average diet in America today is arguably less healthy. Increased knowledge does not equal increased wisdom."

There is plenty of science today that shows dairy is not healthy.

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[Serragon]

There is plenty of science today that shows dairy is not healthy.

There are plenty of snake oil salesmen telling you what you want to hear, but very little science. As Montaigne said, there is a direct correlation between passion and provability. The less provable something is, the more passionately true believers will defend it. You are a prime example of this principle in action.

The truth is, there is almost no science regarding nutrition. We can analyze foods for caloric, vitamin, and mineral content. But once that food is consumed the process becomes murky. We are uncertain how the body extracts and uses these substances. we are uncertain which substances contribute to which issues in the body. None of the studies that come to such conclusions are repeatable. It is all conjecture. If you want a vegan diet, there are plenty of studies to validate your belief. if you want a meat diet, there are plenty of studies to validate your belief. But that is all they are. Validating your beliefs for profit, fame, or both.

A teenage boy we knew from Africa subsisted his entire life on 1 small bowl of rice per day w/ very infrequent portions of meat or fruit. He was skinnier, but as healthy as any of the other boys. How did his body extract all that he needed to live on such meager fair? How did his US counterparts have basically the same health profile even though they ate larger portions and a more balanced diet?

[Gage]

A teenage boy we knew from Africa subsisted his entire life on 1 small bowl of rice per day w/ very infrequent portions of meat or fruit. He was skinnier, but as healthy as any of the other boys. How did his body extract all that he needed to live on such meager fair? How did his US counterparts have basically the same health profile even though they ate larger portions and a more balanced diet


Because he is black

[Arenera]

There is plenty of science today that shows dairy is not healthy.

There are plenty of snake oil salesmen telling you what you want to hear, but very little science. As Montaigne said, there is a direct correlation between passion and provability. The less provable something is, the more passionately true believers will defend it. You are a prime example of this principle in action.

The truth is, there is almost no science regarding nutrition. We can analyze foods for caloric, vitamin, and mineral content. But once that food is consumed the process becomes murky. We are uncertain how the body extracts and uses these substances. we are uncertain which substances contribute to which issues in the body. None of the studies that come to such conclusions are repeatable. It is all conjecture. If you want a vegan diet, there are plenty of studies to validate your belief. if you want a meat diet, there are plenty of studies to validate your belief. But that is all they are. Validating your beliefs for profit, fame, or both.

A teenage boy we knew from Africa subsisted his entire life on 1 small bowl of rice per day w/ very infrequent portions of meat or fruit. He was skinnier, but as healthy as any of the other boys. How did his body extract all that he needed to live on such meager fair? How did his US counterparts have basically the same health profile even though they ate larger portions and a more balanced diet?

Which picture of the two men below, represents someone living the whole foood plant diet lifestyle vs. the Standard American Diet (SAD) lifestyle.

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[Serragon]

There is plenty of science today that shows dairy is not healthy.

There are plenty of snake oil salesmen telling you what you want to hear, but very little science. As Montaigne said, there is a direct correlation between passion and provability. The less provable something is, the more passionately true believers will defend it. You are a prime example of this principle in action.

The truth is, there is almost no science regarding nutrition. We can analyze foods for caloric, vitamin, and mineral content. But once that food is consumed the process becomes murky. We are uncertain how the body extracts and uses these substances. we are uncertain which substances contribute to which issues in the body. None of the studies that come to such conclusions are repeatable. It is all conjecture. If you want a vegan diet, there are plenty of studies to validate your belief. if you want a meat diet, there are plenty of studies to validate your belief. But that is all they are. Validating your beliefs for profit, fame, or both.

A teenage boy we knew from Africa subsisted his entire life on 1 small bowl of rice per day w/ very infrequent portions of meat or fruit. He was skinnier, but as healthy as any of the other boys. How did his body extract all that he needed to live on such meager fair? How did his US counterparts have basically the same health profile even though they ate larger portions and a more balanced diet?

Which picture of the two men below, represents someone living the whole foood plant diet lifestyle vs. the Standard American Diet (SAD) lifestyle.

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I find it quite amusing to compare the claims that this diet is supposed to boost brain power (according to your photo) with the quality and content of your posts. It isn't quite a ringing endorsement.

I don't consider your cherry-picked photographs to be very scientific.

It is clear you are a true believer in this religion. All of your posts have been emotional based, not rational. I am content to let you continue to practice your religion in peace as all I was really concerned about is that you continually equate your beliefs w/ the WOW.

[Yahtzee]

I don't think anyone is going to argue in favor of the standard American diet.

[Arenera]

God, through Christ, gave us the Word of Wisdom. It is faith and agency that allows us to follow it and receive the blessings that come from it.

It is certainly emotional to see loved ones, friends, and people we know to succumb to the health conditions that come from eating meat, dairy, and processed oils. This doesn't have to happen.

If someone says we need meat for protein, look at the Word of Wisdom. God is pleased when we don't eat meat. So is our bodies.

If someone says we need dairy to have strong bones and be healthy, you won't find that in the Word of Wisdom. We have plenty of science today that shows dairy is like meat and not healthy for our bodies.

If someone says oils are healthy for us, you won't find that in the Word of Wisdom either. So many diabetics are suffering from insulin resistance due to too much oil being ingested and filling our cells so insulin can't unlock the cells to let the glucose in.

We have what God gave us, we have plenty of science, and we see the results all around us of what our diets have done to us.

Yes, it can be emotional.

[Arenera]

Weight loss and overcoming Rheumatoid Arthritis Michael Glaser

These were the words from my rheumatologist: “Losing weight will help your feet feel better, but your hands will continue to degrade along with other non-weightbearing joints. Let me know when your ‘diet’ stops working and we can go on medication.” That was two years ago.

Since childhood, I was always healthy, active, athletic, and I loved – you guessed it – meat. In 2008, I was 21 years old, 6’1”, weighed 190 lbs, was running six miles a day and working as a trader at the Chicago Board of Trade. I had lots of free time and the ability to maintain a healthy exercise routine and enjoy my meat-based diet. Sure, I’d burn off 1,500 calories in a workout, but that would be followed up with a nice double stack bacon cheeseburger from the joint next door. I always told myself, “I am working out extra hard today so I can enjoy (insert food).” I looked healthy and certainly felt healthy. Little did I know, my ‘leaky gut’ was slowly letting animal proteins into my bloodstream. My autoimmune system produced antibodies to destroy these foreign proteins and unfortunately there are similar amino acids present on my own tissue, specifically my joints. That is where my cross-reactivity took place; antibodies attacked my joints (McDougall, 2013).

Friends, family and neighbors always enjoyed our home for the holidays. I would like to say it’s because of my excellent ability to cater to everyone; however, it was due to my great skills on the “Weber Smokey Mountain”. Guests would salivate over my incredible dishes and contest winning flavors. Soon, I had weekly dinners, with leftovers frozen and reheated daily. Indeed, a slippery slope.

190 lbs grew to an impressive 293 lbs of pure fat, with just enough muscle to dump more charcoal on the fat sizzling coals. An awful diet, along with “accepting” my weight, resulted in jolting pains throughout my body, random fatigue and no desire to change. I just accepted it. Buying clothes that were XXXL so I would feel comfortable. Paying close to one-thousand dollars for a podiatrist-prescribed orthopedic shoe insert. Accepting weight gain was almost easy, forever and ever until death do us part. But accepting the categorically different, in-a-world-of-its-own pain that soon followed was intolerable.

Stabbing and shooting sensations throughout my body, specifically my joints, caused horrific agony. I had to “scoop” my newborn son, Michael, out of his crib with my forearms, put my toothbrush between my wrists in order to use it and even tie my right wrist around the steering wheel of my car so I would not need to grip the wheel when turning. After creatively “tolerating” this torment for nearly one year, I went to the doctor.

First came the endless questions: Is it burning, stabbing, or tingling? Is it mild, sharp, severe, or dull? Is it constant or intermittent? Is it worse at night or first thing in the morning? Does it wake you up from a sleep? Does it affect your ability to do routine movements or activities? (Answer: “Yes!”) Next, I went in for blood work – lots of blood work. Finally, I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. I genuinely did not think having rheumatoid arthritis was a big deal; at that time it was just a name to me . I figured I would just take some Aleve and voilà – I would be smiling like the sweet lady who owns a bread bakery in the commercial. That is, until I actually met my rheumatologist – the face behind the bad news.

My rheumatologist loaded me up with pamphlets of drug information, told me I would gain more weight due to steroid usage and explained that methotrexate is always the first step. “Then,” she wrapped up, “we’ll take it from there.” I felt like my life had ended. I left my wife endless voicemails, called my dear mother sobbing, then went home to shove Oreos down my throat while the baby napped. Ah yes, food – the great comforter. Rather – the great “destroyer”. I lost all hope.

I first heard of The Starch Solution from my lovely wife, who was in her family medicine residency. She is passionate about how lifestyle choices (yes, they are choices) impact one’s health. It was she who discovered the writings and passion of Dr. John McDougall. Devouring the information he had and reading testimonies by people who had followed his diet encouraged me. Now, I was not pleased about a plant-based diet. Only eat plants? But my choice was to either “try it” or go on medicine, inevitably falling victim to the surgery table.

So I “tried plants” instead of medicine. Yep, I made friends with starches and evil carbohydrates that people label as “bad”, or even worse, tell me, “You’ll get diabetes.” They’re gravely mistaken (McDougall, 2011). Plants ROCK. It did not require Psycho-Cybernetics for me to overcome the desire for meat or the habit of emotional eating. It took me two-weeks of just trying it.

It became very apparent that “Wow. I can do this. I AM doing this!” I stared down at my 11-pound loss within the first two weeks. My weight tanked 80 lbs in less than a year while I still ate 2,300 calories a day. Did I crave Oreos and beef? Yes. Do I now? Not in the slightest. I love eating starches and fruit. I crave them more than I ever craved a smoked rack of ribs! Seriously! I’m now a full-fledged starchavore.

Hard to believe? Try it. My emotional eating reactions are gone. My misery is gone. My extra weight is gone. My rheumatologist – gone.


Fully healed in 2016 with my wife and son

Overcoming a debilitating autoimmune disease allows me to fully enjoy my life. I never knew what I was missing. I wear flip flops daily. My feet never hurt. I have the grip of an ape. I said “NO!” to medications and joint surgery and “YES!” to the freedom of having energy and strength. I did the right thing for my family and myself.

Michael is not Arenera.

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[Jesef]

I love your story and experience, Arenera, and totally agree with it. I just don't think the Word of Wisdom is that comprehensive of a revelation. It doesn't cover very many aspects of health and nutrition, which is why its been (improperly) codified into just a prohibition of substances. In fact, in its own 1833 language, it contrasts "strong (alcoholic) drinks" in verse 5 with "mild (alcoholic) drinks" in verse 17. Strong alcoholic drinks were basically fermented or distilled (typically 15-25% alcohol & over) and mild alcoholic drinks (such as beer & ale, typically 10% alcohol and less) which are brewed (brewed and then lightly fermented), and the latter are classified as good (that one of the purposes of barley and other grains is for making such drinks). Now everyone can agree that intemperance/imprudence, over-indulgence, getting drunk would be bad - alcoholism/addiction also bad. But so is over-eating and becoming overweight or worse, obese. Can't even enumerate all the ways one could unhealthily abuse their body. Then there are all the biblical cases of wine drinking, including Jesus (and it wasn't grape juice, people - in fact, Jesus turned water into the best wine, meaning the best alcoholic kind, at the wedding as his first recorded miracle), Noah, Abraham, David, and many, many others. Just search for "wine" in a scripture search. Prohibition (no alcohol whatsoever) started to be pushed in the Church in 1908, Utah passed prohibition laws in 1917, and then it just continued in the Church afterwards under Pres. Heber J. Grant (even after prohibition laws were repealed in Utah in 1935). So it's a cultural thing now. I'm not saying it's wrong. I live by it because it's the standard of the Church. But the revelation itself, still on the books, seems to state otherwise. I don't look down on people who choose to live otherwise as "unworthy" - and I wish it wasn't a prerequisite for temple ordinances/service, etc.

[Michelle]

I can understand the part about meat and cold weather.... as there was no refrigeration back then. and because of Trichinosis in pigs and other wild game in the hot months.

Still applicable? Eat less meat in summer and fall, and only eat meat in Winter?

Or not eat meat at all!? We don't need to, the Lord confirms it.

I disagree on this last point.

If you actually follow the WOW, eat meat sparingly in times of winter, cold and famine you get B12 naturally, without a supplement.

B12, actually the waste product of a bacteria and found in soil, is the hardest nutrient to absorb and vital. Even a little deficiency causes irreversible neurological damage. The good news: you only need a little, your body will get rud of the excess, it stores and lasts about a year. The reason meat is the easiest way to get it is because the animals consume it on the food they eat and it stays in meat we eat.

So eat meat sparingly in winter: no supplement needed full WOW benefits, eat mostly grains and fruits and veggies in season.

One of the other most common reversals I see is to put fruit and veggies above grains. You can only do that if you eat produce out of season.

A suggestion for determining season: if you harvest a plant and without special prep store it, it is in season until it goes bad. Example, I get unwashed potatoes and put them in the basement in September. They stay good until about Dec or Jan. Wheat is picked and stored more or less indefinitely in a cold dark place so it is in season year round. That is true of most grains. Your quick oats a pre boiled so they don't count. Lettuce goes bad pretty quick so in season when it grow (spring and fall) out if season in deep winter and hot summer when it bolts. Some things we enjoy may never be in season in our area, they are shipped in, so eating them sparingly would be wise. An example would be bananas in Utah. Eat them as a treat or dessert.

[Arenera]

I love your story and experience, Arenera, and totally agree with it. I just don't think the Word of Wisdom is that comprehensive of a revelation. It doesn't cover very many aspects of health and nutrition, which is why its been (improperly) codified into just a prohibition of substances. In fact, in its own 1833 language, it contrasts "strong (alcoholic) drinks" in verse 5 with "mild (alcoholic) drinks" in verse 17. Strong alcoholic drinks were basically fermented or distilled (typically 15-25% alcohol & over) and mild alcoholic drinks (such as beer & ale, typically 10% alcohol and less) which are brewed (brewed and then lightly fermented), and the latter are classified as good (that one of the purposes of barley and other grains is for making such drinks). Now everyone can agree that intemperance/imprudence, over-indulgence, getting drunk would be bad - alcoholism/addiction also bad. But so is over-eating and becoming overweight or worse, obese. Can't even enumerate all the ways one could unhealthily abuse their body. Then there are all the biblical cases of wine drinking, including Jesus (and it wasn't grape juice, people - in fact, Jesus turned water into the best wine, meaning the best alcoholic kind, at the wedding as his first recorded miracle), Noah, Abraham, David, and many, many others. Just search for "wine" in a scripture search. Prohibition (no alcohol whatsoever) started to be pushed in the Church in 1908, Utah passed prohibition laws in 1917, and then it just continued in the Church afterwards under Pres. Heber J. Grant (even after prohibition laws were repealed in Utah in 1935). So it's a cultural thing now. I'm not saying it's wrong. I live by it because it's the standard of the Church. But the revelation itself, still on the books, seems to state otherwise. I don't look down on people who choose to live otherwise as "unworthy" - and I wish it wasn't a prerequisite for temple ordinances/service, etc.

Sorry, that wasn't my story. Maybe in the future. I'm a new healthy-low-fat vegan.

The Word of Wisdom is amazing. I think it is deeper than we give it credit:

The Greeting, Revelation, Temporal Salvation

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

The Warning

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

The Whole Foods Plant Based Diet (Pleasing to the God)

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

The Promise, Blessing

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

[Irrelevant]

I love your story and experience, Arenera, and totally agree with it. I just don't think the Word of Wisdom is that comprehensive of a revelation. It doesn't cover very many aspects of health and nutrition, which is why its been (improperly) codified into just a prohibition of substances. In fact, in its own 1833 language, it contrasts "strong (alcoholic) drinks" in verse 5 with "mild (alcoholic) drinks" in verse 17. Strong alcoholic drinks were basically fermented or distilled (typically 15-25% alcohol & over) and mild alcoholic drinks (such as beer & ale, typically 10% alcohol and less) which are brewed (brewed and then lightly fermented), and the latter are classified as good (that one of the purposes of barley and other grains is for making such drinks). Now everyone can agree that intemperance/imprudence, over-indulgence, getting drunk would be bad - alcoholism/addiction also bad. But so is over-eating and becoming overweight or worse, obese. Can't even enumerate all the ways one could unhealthily abuse their body. Then there are all the biblical cases of wine drinking, including Jesus (and it wasn't grape juice, people - in fact, Jesus turned water into the best wine, meaning the best alcoholic kind, at the wedding as his first recorded miracle), Noah, Abraham, David, and many, many others. Just search for "wine" in a scripture search. Prohibition (no alcohol whatsoever) started to be pushed in the Church in 1908, Utah passed prohibition laws in 1917, and then it just continued in the Church afterwards under Pres. Heber J. Grant (even after prohibition laws were repealed in Utah in 1935). So it's a cultural thing now. I'm not saying it's wrong. I live by it because it's the standard of the Church. But the revelation itself, still on the books, seems to state otherwise. I don't look down on people who choose to live otherwise as "unworthy" - and I wish it wasn't a prerequisite for temple ordinances/service, etc.

Sorry, that wasn't my story. Maybe in the future. I'm a new healthy-low-fat vegan.

The Word of Wisdom is amazing. I think it is deeper than we give it credit:

The Greeting, Revelation, Temporal Salvation

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

The Warning

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

The Whole Foods Plant Based Diet (Pleasing to the God)

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

The Promise, Blessing

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

You left out verse 17:
Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Do you eat a lot of wheat? What kind of mild drinks do you make with barley and also other grain?

Home made bread with freshly ground wheat is the best! Sorry if you've already addressed the questions, I've been roughly following.

[Michelle]

I love your story and experience, Arenera, and totally agree with it. I just don't think the Word of Wisdom is that comprehensive of a revelation. It doesn't cover very many aspects of health and nutrition, which is why its been (improperly) codified into just a prohibition of substances. In fact, in its own 1833 language, it contrasts "strong (alcoholic) drinks" in verse 5 with "mild (alcoholic) drinks" in verse 17. Strong alcoholic drinks were basically fermented or distilled (typically 15-25% alcohol & over) and mild alcoholic drinks (such as beer & ale, typically 10% alcohol and less) which are brewed (brewed and then lightly fermented), and the latter are classified as good (that one of the purposes of barley and other grains is for making such drinks). Now everyone can agree that intemperance/imprudence, over-indulgence, getting drunk would be bad - alcoholism/addiction also bad. But so is over-eating and becoming overweight or worse, obese. Can't even enumerate all the ways one could unhealthily abuse their body. Then there are all the biblical cases of wine drinking, including Jesus (and it wasn't grape juice, people - in fact, Jesus turned water into the best wine, meaning the best alcoholic kind, at the wedding as his first recorded miracle), Noah, Abraham, David, and many, many others. Just search for "wine" in a scripture search. Prohibition (no alcohol whatsoever) started to be pushed in the Church in 1908, Utah passed prohibition laws in 1917, and then it just continued in the Church afterwards under Pres. Heber J. Grant (even after prohibition laws were repealed in Utah in 1935). So it's a cultural thing now. I'm not saying it's wrong. I live by it because it's the standard of the Church. But the revelation itself, still on the books, seems to state otherwise. I don't look down on people who choose to live otherwise as "unworthy" - and I wish it wasn't a prerequisite for temple ordinances/service, etc.

Sorry, that wasn't my story. Maybe in the future. I'm a new healthy-low-fat vegan.

The Word of Wisdom is amazing. I think it is deeper than we give it credit:

The Greeting, Revelation, Temporal Salvation

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

The Warning

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

The Whole Foods Plant Based Diet (Pleasing to the God)

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

The Promise, Blessing

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

You left out verse 17:
Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Do you eat a lot of wheat? What kind of mild drinks do you make with barley and also other grain?

Home made bread with freshly ground wheat is the best! Sorry if you've already addressed the questions, I've been roughly following.

Not necessarily directed to me, but we grind our food storage wheat for homemade waffles, pancakes, hot cereal, muffins , bread, as a thickener, etc.

Our rule of thumb is grains every meal, beans every day, fruits and veggies in season. If I had to guess I'd say we eat mostly wheat, lots of oats and rice, other grains by frequency of recipes we like.

I'm not convinced the WOW says to drink beer. This isn't the first post onthe topic and there us at least one super extensive one, so no need to argue that again.

When I looked into this a few years ago I found a variety of recipes. Most either soaked or boiled and soaked the barley. Then usually something was added, from honey or lemon to other flavorings.

We've used Pero before: barley, malted barley, chicory, and rye. My concern is that malted barley is basically sugar, but it tastes fine so that is an option.

[lemuel]

An extended version of Neal Barnard taking about reversing diabetes. Too much fat impacts cells and creates Insulin Resistance. Fat from meat, dairy and oils. A whole plant based lifestyle is the solution.

What causes insulin? Glucose. What foods contain glucose? Carbs.

I've lost 40 lbs this year on a high-fat low-carb (ketogenic) diet this year. My A1C has gone from 5.8 to 4.7 (>6.0 is pre-diabetes, >7.0 is diabetes). And I have tons more energy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/keto_in_a_nutshell

[Michelle]

An extended version of Neal Barnard taking about reversing diabetes. Too much fat impacts cells and creates Insulin Resistance. Fat from meat, dairy and oils. A whole plant based lifestyle is the solution.

What causes insulin? Glucose. What foods contain glucose? Carbs.

I've lost 40 lbs this year on a high-fat low-carb (ketogenic) diet this year. My A1C has gone from 5.8 to 4.7 (>6.0 is pre-diabetes, >7.0 is diabetes). And I have tons more energy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/keto_in_a_nutshell

The scriptures back up the idea that one is skinnier on a ketogenic diet, but not healthier. Daniel and his friends who refused the kings meat were "fatter of flesh" but much wiser.

A ketogenic diet (any high protein low/no carb diet that goes by a variety of names) causes you to lose weight as the extra keytones produced poison your body and whatever water you may have is used to flush them out. Once you go back to any kind of other diet the weight ( water) returns. If you stay on a ketogenic diet long term you can expect serious health concerns to arise. Ketogenics is a part of diabetes as well.

If you feel better it likely has more to do with discontinuing junk carbs like white bread and sugar than the ketogenic nature of the diet. If you had given up processed food and sugar and eaten real food and whole grains you would still experience the benefits of better health without the downsides of a ketogenic diet.

[Arenera]

Amazing results with a Whole Food Plant-Strong Lifestyle

Reversing Diabetes

Some 50-75% of insulin-using type 2 diabetics and 80-90% of those on pills...
could normalize their blood sugars and be off medication within weeks --
if they changed their diet.

Prof. James Anderson MD. Lima Linda SPH Convention, 1980

Here is a link to Mastering Diabetes Summit with expert presentations and videos. You can register, you don't have to pay $97, you have 7 days to review the presentations for free.

Mastering Diabetes Summit

[lemuel]

An extended version of Neal Barnard taking about reversing diabetes. Too much fat impacts cells and creates Insulin Resistance. Fat from meat, dairy and oils. A whole plant based lifestyle is the solution.

What causes insulin? Glucose. What foods contain glucose? Carbs.

I've lost 40 lbs this year on a high-fat low-carb (ketogenic) diet this year. My A1C has gone from 5.8 to 4.7 (>6.0 is pre-diabetes, >7.0 is diabetes). And I have tons more energy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/keto_in_a_nutshell

The scriptures back up the idea that one is skinnier on a ketogenic diet, but not healthier. Daniel and his friends who refused the kings meat were "fatter of flesh" but much wiser.

A ketogenic diet (any high protein low/no carb diet that goes by a variety of names) causes you to lose weight as the extra keytones produced poison your body and whatever water you may have is used to flush them out. Once you go back to any kind of other diet the weight ( water) returns. If you stay on a ketogenic diet long term you can expect serious health concerns to arise. Ketogenics is a part of diabetes as well.

If you feel better it likely has more to do with discontinuing junk carbs like white bread and sugar than the ketogenic nature of the diet. If you had given up processed food and sugar and eaten real food and whole grains you would still experience the benefits of better health without the downsides of a ketogenic diet.

Diets...are complicated I suppose.

Ketosis =/= Ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis can be a serious complication for people with Type 1 diabetes or liver cirrhosis. No reason to believe ketones are poison. They are a perfectly fine source of fuel.

Weight loss from water weight is from the liver depleting its glycogen stores. Glycogen is bonded with water, so when starting a diet (really, any diet), you can lose 5 lbs the first week or so as your glycogen is depleted. Those 1st 5 lbs would be regained quickly as glycogen is built up. Beyond that, it can't all be water weight that is lost-- people can't lose 40 lbs of water and live.

I can't say if I would've lost 40 lbs on a whole grain diet--I don't have the discipline for a low calorie, low-fat diet. I'm just too hungry. I've found a ketogenic diet to be quite easy. I don't see much downside to it. It's a strict diet; there's a lot of tasty things I can't have. But all the things I get to eat taste awesome. Ribeye. Bacon. Macadamia nuts. Ribs. And leafy greens taste pretty good sauteed in bacon fat.

If one is worried about cholesterol, here's a pretty long read on it:
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the- ... rol-part-i

But if vegan works for you, you should definitely stick with it. I admire your willpower.

[Arenera]

Dairy is not good for us.

Dairy Doubts

Doctor Michael Klaper: "Cow’s milk is baby calf growth fluid."

“Dairy Doubts” Contents:
– Introduction
– What we’re told about dairy products…
– The purpose of cow’s milk
– If you’re trying to lose weight…
– Reality Check
– Estrogens in cow’s milk…
– Dairy and Prostate Cancer
– Dairy and Ovarian Cancer
– Dairy and Acne
– Plant-Based Diets in Treatment of Asthma
– Dairy and Various Medical Conditions
– Cheese (congealed, fermented butterfat)
– “The Cheese Trap” by Neal Barnard, MD
– Where cow’s milk really comes from…
– Today’s commercial dairy industry…
– Are you really that hungry?
– Healthy Calcium Sources
– Dairy and Environmental Pollution
– Look in the mirror…
– Delicious alternatives (in moderation)…
– What about your bones?
– Osteoporosis is NOT a calcium deficiency
– Healthy Bones
– Summary & Suggestions

[Michelle]

Sorry, that wasn't my story. Maybe in the future. I'm a new healthy-low-fat vegan.

Maybe that is the problem. Many of us walked this road years ago. Read the same books, watched the same videos, tried the same diets. Found the flaws and realized that all we need to know is already in the scriptures. The Word of Wisdom yes, absolutely. Any questions or concerns about the details are answered in the scriptures as well: Old Testament, New Testament, Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Mormon.

The creative readings of what might be said on the Word of Wisdom will not help you. Take the Lord at his word. Literally. He means what he says.

Part of the problem with reading so many books on health is that we try to fit the things we learn from the world into the Word of Wisdom and see things that aren't there. Try a clean slate. Get rid of any of the things you think you learned from the other books (even written by LDS authors) and only do what the Lord actually says in the scriptures or specifically stated by prophets and apostles. Current leaders over past. I can testify that He meant what he said. I have been healed of many health problems by following the actual Word of Wisdom.

If you do this, you will be amazed at how many scriptures there are related to food, health and wisdom. Read the book of Daniel and well as scriptures about Daniel. The connection between proper food (the kinds of food and the timing of eating) and the Spirit is strong.

[Michelle]

An extended version of Neal Barnard taking about reversing diabetes. Too much fat impacts cells and creates Insulin Resistance. Fat from meat, dairy and oils. A whole plant based lifestyle is the solution.

What causes insulin? Glucose. What foods contain glucose? Carbs.

I've lost 40 lbs this year on a high-fat low-carb (ketogenic) diet this year. My A1C has gone from 5.8 to 4.7 (>6.0 is pre-diabetes, >7.0 is diabetes). And I have tons more energy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/keto_in_a_nutshell

The scriptures back up the idea that one is skinnier on a ketogenic diet, but not healthier. Daniel and his friends who refused the kings meat were "fatter of flesh" but much wiser.

A ketogenic diet (any high protein low/no carb diet that goes by a variety of names) causes you to lose weight as the extra keytones produced poison your body and whatever water you may have is used to flush them out. Once you go back to any kind of other diet the weight ( water) returns. If you stay on a ketogenic diet long term you can expect serious health concerns to arise. Ketogenics is a part of diabetes as well.

If you feel better it likely has more to do with discontinuing junk carbs like white bread and sugar than the ketogenic nature of the diet. If you had given up processed food and sugar and eaten real food and whole grains you would still experience the benefits of better health without the downsides of a ketogenic diet.

Diets...are complicated I suppose.

Ketosis =/= Ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis can be a serious complication for people with Type 1 diabetes or liver cirrhosis. No reason to believe ketones are poison. They are a perfectly fine source of fuel.

Weight loss from water weight is from the liver depleting its glycogen stores. Glycogen is bonded with water, so when starting a diet (really, any diet), you can lose 5 lbs the first week or so as your glycogen is depleted. Those 1st 5 lbs would be regained quickly as glycogen is built up. Beyond that, it can't all be water weight that is lost-- people can't lose 40 lbs of water and live.

I can't say if I would've lost 40 lbs on a whole grain diet--I don't have the discipline for a low calorie, low-fat diet. I'm just too hungry. I've found a ketogenic diet to be quite easy. I don't see much downside to it. It's a strict diet; there's a lot of tasty things I can't have. But all the things I get to eat taste awesome. Ribeye. Bacon. Macadamia nuts. Ribs. And leafy greens taste pretty good sauteed in bacon fat.

If one is worried about cholesterol, here's a pretty long read on it:
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the- ... rol-part-i

But if vegan works for you, you should definitely stick with it. I admire your willpower.

I am not a vegan. I believe in following the Word of Wisdom as it is written. When I need further clarification I look first in the standard works and the clarifications given by prophets. I follow modern prophets over past prophets.

[Arenera]

Sorry, that wasn't my story. Maybe in the future. I'm a new healthy-low-fat vegan.

Maybe that is the problem. Many of us walked this road years ago. Read the same books, watched the same videos, tried the same diets. Found the flaws and realized that all we need to know is already in the scriptures. The Word of Wisdom yes, absolutely. Any questions or concerns about the details are answered in the scriptures as well: Old Testament, New Testament, Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Mormon.

The creative readings of what might be said on the Word of Wisdom will not help you. Take the Lord at his word. Literally. He means what he says.

Part of the problem with reading so many books on health is that we try to fit the things we learn from the world into the Word of Wisdom and see things that aren't there. Try a clean slate. Get rid of any of the things you think you learned from the other books (even written by LDS authors) and only do what the Lord actually says in the scriptures or specifically stated by prophets and apostles. Current leaders over past. I can testify that He meant what he said. I have been healed of many health problems by following the actual Word of Wisdom.

If you do this, you will be amazed at how many scriptures there are related to food, health and wisdom. Read the book of Daniel and well as scriptures about Daniel. The connection between proper food (the kinds of food and the timing of eating) and the Spirit is strong.

This is how I read the Word of Wisdom:

The Greeting, Revelation, Temporal Salvation

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

The Warning

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

Pleasing God

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

The Whole Foods Plant Based Diet

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

The Promise, Blessing

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

Nothing is said about dairy, or about processed oils, so it is good to check what our current understanding is (science).

Since the Word of Wisdom came out in 1833, you could say that Healthy Vegan, whole food plant based and low fat, corresponds completely with the Word of Wisdom.

It pleases God when we don't eat meat. There is nothing wrong with eating fruits, plants and vegetables that come from South America when North America is in winter.

This is a nice scripture from Mosiah 9:
9 And we began to till the ground, yea, even with all manner of seeds, with seeds of corn, and of wheat, and of barley, and with neas, and with sheum, and with seeds of all manner of fruits; and we did begin to multiply and prosper in the land.

Notice the multiplying and prosper linked with grains, vegetables and fruits.

[lemuel]

I am not a vegan. I believe in following the Word of Wisdom as it is written. When I need further clarification I look first in the standard works and the clarifications given by prophets. I follow modern prophets over past prophets.

Sorry, had the wrong vegan. Glad your diet is working for you anyway.

[Arenera]