Prosper in the Land

[drtanner]

How concerned is the Lord with our temporal affairs? Why does do the Lord mention so often in the Book of Mormon that if we keep the commandments we will prosper in the land? Does he want us to be self-reliant and financially independent? Why?

Consider this experience from Elder Enzo Busche's life:

There was another time in my service as CEO of the company when I was confronted with a very difficult situation. I learned that our largest customer, with whom we did about 70 percent of our sales at that time, was planning to do their own printing because they needed to use some empty space in their own operations. There was absolutely nothing I could do to prevent that from happening. I was completely paralyzed for a while because I knew this could seal the doom of our company, which my mother and most of my sisters depended on for their living. I was also busier than at any other time with Church work. I became more and more paralyzed with panic, fear, and despair. One night at about 3:00 a.m., I could not sleep yet again. I turned over in my mind the wildest propositions for this company, but to no avail. Finally, I decided to go out for a while.

I got dressed quietly so as not to waken my wife. I went out in the streets. There was a light drizzle and a little fog in the air. The cold asphalt and concrete of the city increased the awareness of my hopeless situation. In despair, I threw myself on the ground, crying and calling on my Heavenly Father. Suddenly something happened. I heard a voice very close to my right ear speak one single word: Arbeite (work). At first I was upset because it was just one word; the voice was so near and so beautiful that I wanted to hear it again. I could not comprehend it. I yelled, “More, more!” But nothing more came.

As I pondered the meaning of what had just happened, I realized in this one word there were three distinct messages. The first message was: He heard me. This time He realized that I needed something more than just a silent voice; I needed something audible. I was overwhelmed with gratitude and love that I was worthy of that experience. The second message was: Repentance. Everyone might have thought that I was the hardest worker in the company and in the Church because of my long hours. But I knew that I still had a lot of time that I was not using constructively. I was still interested in soccer. I still read a political magazine on a weekly basis. I was even still interested in sailing and read books about that. I made a commitment right then and there that for the next six months, I would get up thirty minutes earlier. I would do nothing else, only Church and business, and I would focus more and make better use of my time. The third message was the most comforting: Hope. I understood the Lord would not give me such a message if there were no hope.

When I finally went home, I was rejuvenated. I didn’t want to go back to bed, so I went right to the office. On the way, I saw in my mind revolutionary restructuring possibilities for the company that I later put on paper. Basically, I separated the company into little profit centers, an idea that was completely new at the time. I involved the whole team in this new idea, and enthusiasm and hope came into their lives. I already had reason to be grateful to the Lord for the insights and comfort He had given us when another really wonderful thing happened.

[gardener4life]

So is this a question you have or something you want to teach to others?

There are several things I could tell you depending. One of them i barely found out today. And its unexpectedly a bit different from what you might have thought of;

D&C 27:5-14, particularly 14. Exodus 2:22, Alma 13:23, .... "wanderer in a strange land..."

Why don't LDS people fit in? Why do we struggle?
It's because we are not in the world. Of course we wouldn't fit in here, because we won't and don't belong to this kingdom. We belong to Heavenly Father and Jesus' kingdom. So we're just sort of swimming behind enemy lines trying to get home in a way and that's why it feels like we're alone sometimes even though we're not.

This really is a special thought because think about that D&C 27:5-14....what its saying. Jesus shows that HF gave him us out of the world, those that don't belong in the world, because we're seeking him and not riches or the treasure of this world. TO us being with jesus one day is treasure enough for us because we love him. And verse 14 shows that he hopes to personally have a chance to someday do the sacrament with us. How special is that? I found this section by accident today. And I'm glad I did. In one of the key verses there he actually says he will partake of the vine with us here on Earth one day. He's not talking about eating, he's talking about the sacrament. Can you imagine that? That's an amazing promise. And according to verse 14 it belongs to anyone who belongs to him faithfully. (but to the wicked he will not go.)

Now there are a ton of verses I can show you that say ...if you will be righteous you will prosper in the land. Those are real too. I'm sure someone else will address financial independence and self reliance. Those things are important and yes go after them.

But I was remembering I know of a situation where some priesthood holders are being cast out of their own homes for no reason with the growth of femininism and other excuses. These people need to know there's a reason they don't fit in and its' because people that belong to Heavenly Father will never quite fit in, in Babylon. So keep trying, try to help your family.

[brianj]

Now there are a ton of verses I can show you that say ...if you will be righteous you will prosper in the land. Those are real too. I'm sure someone else will address financial independence and self reliance. Those things are important and yes go after them.

I'm going to ask a follow-up question because this is something that weighs heavily on my mind.

Is this promise that if we are righteous we will prosper an individual or collective promise? I know a lot of people, like myself, who struggle with getting by and who, often due to the wickedness of others, are really not prospering. People who are looked down upon by those at church with wealth, expensive clothing, and expensive cars and who are told that we obviously aren't as righteous as those wealthy people looking down upon us.

In the Book of Mormon times the societies prospered as people were righteous, but class distinctions still arose with wealthy, poor, and (presumably) middle class families. Were the poor people poor because they weren't righteous enough or because Heavenly Father provides the experiences and opportunities that allow some to become wealthy and others to live in poverty because they need those individual experiences for their own progression?

I know someone who was serving faithfully in various callings as his career progressed, and one day he was offered a position where he was managing billions of dollars and paying himself millions. Shortly after, while serving as a Bishop, he took a mistress. When his wife tried reporting him, he smoothly and convincingly lied to his counselors and stake president, and just before the secret got out he bought a home in another stake then had his records moved to postpone his excommunication. Since then he's apparently become wealthier.
Meanwhile I have tried to honor my covenants, have never done anything as egregious, but I am professionally and financially far behind where someone with my educational background should be. I graduated in the midst of a recession, was unemployed for a long time, and have a hard time faithfully believing that I can ever have an income that would allow me to buy a median house in this region. Am I less righteous than the excommunicated former Bishop I served with on my mission?

[drtanner]

He is concerned about each of our abilities to provide individual and as a people:

20 Cry unto him when ye are in your fields, yea, over all your flocks.
21 Cry unto him in your houses, yea, over all your household, both morning, mid-day, and evening.
22 Yea, cry unto him against the power of your enemies.
23 Yea, cry unto him against the devil, who is an enemy to all righteousness.
24 Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them.
25 Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase.
26 But this is not all; ye must pour out your souls in your closets, and your secret places, and in your wilderness.
27 Yea, and when you do not cry unto the Lord, let your hearts be full, drawn out in prayer unto him continually for your welfare, and also for the welfare of those who are around you.

28 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done all these things, if ye turn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted, and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need--I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites who do deny the faith.
29 Therefore, if ye do not remember to be charitable, ye are as dross, which the refiners do cast out, (it being of no worth) and is trodden under foot of men.

The law of the harvest is real but he will not sow for us. The grass is green wherever we water it. (the water is given by him) He can provide the rain, inspire us to know what soil to plant in, provide the sunshine, and has fertilizer in the form of many spiritual gifts (but only on conditions of us asking him for them and qualifying further by obeying what is taught by him) Ultimately only we can control how many seeds we plant and where we plant those seeds and sometimes a failing crop is a blessing and a lesson he allows to teach us how to have a successful crop another day.

He is intimately concerned about our welfare both spiritually and temporarily, but will not drive a parked car. Wealth is not an indicator of spiritual success. Our success is only determined by how much light we acquire in mortality. If we happen to figure out how to grow crops faster or sow more seeds what are we doing with the excess?

He invites us when we are converted to strengthen our brother (becoming spiritually reliant through him, a spiritual independence that only happens through a co-dependence with him) the same principles apply temporally.

Many people think that righteousness alone automatically qualifies them to prosper in the land. This is not true.

What does it mean to be a steward?

One last thought from Elder Maxwell. "Even if work were not an economic necessity, it is a spiritual necessity."
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/insi ... e?lang=eng (All of Elder Maxwell insights in this article are amazing)

By not trying to provide to the best of our ability do we miss out on spiritual blessings?

[drtanner]

So is this a question you have or something you want to teach to others?

These are questions I have. I find when I ask the questions both to myself and others it gives me an opportunity to ponder on the questions and learn from those here. I have learned a lot from what others post on the forum and am grateful for a venue to ask questions and also share thoughts that I feel have come from him. I take no credit for any thought or insight and I am guilty of "speaking out loud" sometimes before thoughts are fully formed. So I hope those on the forum will be ok if I change my thinking from time to time as truth is discovered through discussion.

[Lizzy60]

Several times in the Book of Mormon, when the Lord promises that they will prosper in the land if they keep His commandments, the corollary curse is also mentioned, which is that if they don't keep the commandments they will be cut off from His presence. He doesn't say that He will take away their wealth but that He will remove himself from them. I believe there are many ways to prosper, with financial wealth being one of the least important. It is also worth remembering what the Lord asks us to with any abundance we have, whether that abundance is temporal or spiritual.

[Mark]

How concerned is the Lord with our temporal affairs? Why does do the Lord mention so often in the Book of Mormon that if we keep the commandments we will prosper in the land? Does he want us to be self-reliant and financially independent? Why?

Consider this experience from Elder Enzo Busche's life:

There was another time in my service as CEO of the company when I was confronted with a very difficult situation. I learned that our largest customer, with whom we did about 70 percent of our sales at that time, was planning to do their own printing because they needed to use some empty space in their own operations. There was absolutely nothing I could do to prevent that from happening. I was completely paralyzed for a while because I knew this could seal the doom of our company, which my mother and most of my sisters depended on for their living. I was also busier than at any other time with Church work. I became more and more paralyzed with panic, fear, and despair. One night at about 3:00 a.m., I could not sleep yet again. I turned over in my mind the wildest propositions for this company, but to no avail. Finally, I decided to go out for a while.

I got dressed quietly so as not to waken my wife. I went out in the streets. There was a light drizzle and a little fog in the air. The cold asphalt and concrete of the city increased the awareness of my hopeless situation. In despair, I threw myself on the ground, crying and calling on my Heavenly Father. Suddenly something happened. I heard a voice very close to my right ear speak one single word: Arbeite (work). At first I was upset because it was just one word; the voice was so near and so beautiful that I wanted to hear it again. I could not comprehend it. I yelled, “More, more!” But nothing more came.

As I pondered the meaning of what had just happened, I realized in this one word there were three distinct messages. The first message was: He heard me. This time He realized that I needed something more than just a silent voice; I needed something audible. I was overwhelmed with gratitude and love that I was worthy of that experience. The second message was: Repentance. Everyone might have thought that I was the hardest worker in the company and in the Church because of my long hours. But I knew that I still had a lot of time that I was not using constructively. I was still interested in soccer. I still read a political magazine on a weekly basis. I was even still interested in sailing and read books about that. I made a commitment right then and there that for the next six months, I would get up thirty minutes earlier. I would do nothing else, only Church and business, and I would focus more and make better use of my time. The third message was the most comforting: Hope. I understood the Lord would not give me such a message if there were no hope.

When I finally went home, I was rejuvenated. I didn’t want to go back to bed, so I went right to the office. On the way, I saw in my mind revolutionary restructuring possibilities for the company that I later put on paper. Basically, I separated the company into little profit centers, an idea that was completely new at the time. I involved the whole team in this new idea, and enthusiasm and hope came into their lives. I already had reason to be grateful to the Lord for the insights and comfort He had given us when another really wonderful thing happened.

I loved reading Elder Busche's wonderful book Yearning for the Living God. So many faith promoting spiritual experiences from a man who truly was born again of the spirit. His life and example exemplifies that fact. Well worth reading his life story.

[gardener4life]

Now there are a ton of verses I can show you that say ...if you will be righteous you will prosper in the land. Those are real too. I'm sure someone else will address financial independence and self reliance. Those things are important and yes go after them.

I'm going to ask a follow-up question because this is something that weighs heavily on my mind.

Is this promise that if we are righteous we will prosper an individual or collective promise? I know a lot of people, like myself, who struggle with getting by and who, often due to the wickedness of others, are really not prospering. People who are looked down upon by those at church with wealth, expensive clothing, and expensive cars and who are told that we obviously aren't as righteous as those wealthy people looking down upon us.

In the Book of Mormon times the societies prospered as people were righteous, but class distinctions still arose with wealthy, poor, and (presumably) middle class families. Were the poor people poor because they weren't righteous enough or because Heavenly Father provides the experiences and opportunities that allow some to become wealthy and others to live in poverty because they need those individual experiences for their own progression?

I know someone who was serving faithfully in various callings as his career progressed, and one day he was offered a position where he was managing billions of dollars and paying himself millions. Shortly after, while serving as a Bishop, he took a mistress. When his wife tried reporting him, he smoothly and convincingly lied to his counselors and stake president, and just before the secret got out he bought a home in another stake then had his records moved to postpone his excommunication. Since then he's apparently become wealthier.
Meanwhile I have tried to honor my covenants, have never done anything as egregious, but I am professionally and financially far behind where someone with my educational background should be. I graduated in the midst of a recession, was unemployed for a long time, and have a hard time faithfully believing that I can ever have an income that would allow me to buy a median house in this region. Am I less righteous than the excommunicated former Bishop I served with on my mission?

I think I understand you on this. I have seen this with people I know recently; good people who were living right. This really is a trying time. A time where things are being shaken up tremendously. Things happening right now aren't as they should be. And the question of individually and collectively IS a good question which I'd thought about a lot too. I have thought about the idea of individual rewards and collective rewards in the gospel many times because for the gospel to be real it has to have real answers to prayer that are genuine and individually based! This idea that there will always be individual meaning in the gospel and to individual prayers is absolutely amazing! No matter how big the church gets individual answers to prayers are deep in meaning and needed still! And answers to prayers will always be individually too in form of protection for living the law of tithing.

In short, sometimes we look for prosper in the land, and we will get that when peace is restored to the land after the coming judgments are finished, but for now what we're looking for is protection when it seems that society around us is slipping. Why isn't there more prosperity? Its because the wicked trying to destroy the righteous spiritually and economically right now. This is a sign of the times. I'll come back to this is a second.

Here are some interesting verses that I think will help you. You basically need some things to look forward to. I will come back to this idea here in a minute but a quick answer is we sometimes have to look for something else besides prosper in the land. (Prospering in the land is good and it's true its something we can gain but our generation is being shaken up for a reason. Peace is being taken from the Earth basically.) We will also have to work too and move forward but in this case the protection you are looking for is this --> “But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved.” President Harold B. Lee promised that “the true servants of God, those who are doing their duty, will be protected and preserved if they will do as the Lord has counseled: ‘stand ye in holy places’” (this can give us hope individually...and be looked forward to...also when looking at sections of signs of the times we read bad things happening and are periodically reminded to look for this phrase stand in holy places...to remind us that if we are doing our duty we will be protected and preserved.) Also check this talk out; https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/09/peac ... n?lang=eng

D&C 27:5-14...heh...the reason I posted this one again. We will have to have our hearts on things different than the previous generation. In our case we can set our hearts on the fact that we really will have a chance to see and meet Jesus, though we don't have a lot of material wealth. OK, now for some verses that help us figure this out first...(this is something to look forward to...this is actually one of the most amazing promises in all of the scriptures and people see it right under their noses without seeing it for the gem it is! This really is something that you can look to as a beautiful future.)

Other things to look forward to; D&C 64:30 And he hath set you to provide for his saints in these last days, that they may obtain an inheritance in the land of Zion. (notice its telling the Leaders to build the future for the other Saints? Isn't that proof of Heavenly Father's love?)

Also we can look forward to the fact that we have temples dotting the face of the land. Isn't that wonderful too? We can choose to be out of the world and see that the kingdom of God is rolling forward truly like the stone of Daniel. Consider this too --> http://thisweekinmormons.com/2015/04/ge ... n-in-july/

And not only that, but Vietnam opened as a mission not long ago. Who would have thought these hardcore regimes like Vietnam and Russia could ever open? Isn't that proof that amazing things that are good can still happen in our day?

2 Nephi 10:10 But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land. So why are we not being blessed with prosperity we want? -->

First we look at the book of Mormon;

3 Nephi 6; wealth and class distinctions arise; but first what's interesting is that it says that within a very short time period of their miraculous deliverance they had forgotten God;

2 Nephi 1:10 But behold, when the time cometh that they shall dwindle in unbelief, after they have received so great blessings from the hand of the Lord—having a knowledge of the creation of the earth, and all men, knowing the great and marvelous works of the Lord from the creation of the world; having power given them to do all things by faith; having all the commandments from the beginning, and having been brought by his infinite goodness into this precious land of promise—behold, I say, if the day shall come that they will reject the Holy One of Israel, the true Messiah, their Redeemer and their God, behold, the judgments of him that is just shall rest upon them.

4 Nephi 1: 26 And they began to be divided into classes; and they began to build up churches unto themselves to get gain, and began to deny the true church of Christ.

D&C 87:7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies. (This is happening economically, and spiritually right now. And in the form of leaving members behind, and taking away their chance to have a family. Very soon it will continue to expand I think. Aren't the young people of the church now crying up unto the Lord for a future?And isn't that future being taken by those that are already living behind their means and have enough already?)

D&C 49;23 Wherefore, be not deceived, but continue in steadfastness, looking forth for the heavens to be shaken, and the earth to tremble and to reel to and fro as a drunken man, and for the valleys to be exalted, and for the mountains to be made low, and for the rough places to become smooth—and all this when the angel shall sound his trumpet.

(Before the physical manifestation of this first there is the spiritual version of the Earth trembling and reeling to and fro. It's doing that socially, economically, and spiritually right now. Then later there will be the physical part of it later. Why is peace being lost in the land, bit by bit? This is also heavens being shaken. As a people we are forgetting God and you can see this is many forms...lack of common sense in everyday people is a manifestation of the Loss of their ability to feel the spirit and slowly their losing the light of Christ, their denial of living faith;) & also why? --> D&C 45:27 And the love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound. JS-M 1:30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax cold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved. D&C 45:29 ...for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men. (Stuck in Babylon.)

Why is it like that without prosperity? Because only those with secret combinations are prospering. And this is one of the reasons you can see that it is so. If it weren't so then people should be able to 'prosper' by living right; yet right now it looks like good people aren't getting anywhere but they will. But if only the wicked can prosper and those in Babylon that is a sure sign of --> Alma 45:12 Yea, and this because they shall dwindle in unbelief and fall into the works of darkness, and lasciviousness, and all manner of iniquities...Helaman 8:4
And those judges were angry with him because he spake plainly unto them concerning their secret works of darkness...

In this consider the following...in this country about 60% or more of young people 25 to 35 are living at home with their parents...why? Because they are being left behind. Why are they left behind? Society has given the future of the obedient to the disobedient. There aren't as many opportunities for young people because ..." love waxed cold on those that had the stewardship of the young people in mentoring them with opportunities..." (This applies to people of the world, not LDS. It's important we don't blame the wrong people.)

But where are we in that?

The things you've observed is that Babylon is big and so full right now that there is no place for good people left. When it's like this is when we pray for the Lord to intervene first, to create a future with us. And he will do so. We jut need to be patient and stay with him. (A parable version of this is 3 Nephi Chapters 2 and 3. We just have mass Babylon instead of robbers. Babylon is so big its like unto the time when robbers covered the entire face of the land.)

This all comes down to one thing;

“I will prophesy that the signs of the coming of the Son of Man are already commenced. One pestilence will desolate after another. We shall soon have war and bloodshed. The moon will be turned into blood. I testify of these things, and that the coming of the Son of Man is nigh, even at your doors. If our souls and our bodies are not looking forth for the coming of the Son of Man; and after we are dead, if we are not looking forth, we shall be among those who are calling for the rocks to fall upon them (quote by Joseph Smith; yet right now its in its spiritual and economic version, not yet at physical stage.)

So tying back together the earlier verses I gave you... 3 Nephi 6; 2 Nephi 1:10, 4 Nephi 1:26, D&C 87;7, spiritual version of D&C 49;23, JS-M 1:30...they are all showing that very soon the time of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. This is why so many crazy things are happening right now and why its hard for young people. It's no wonder you and virtually all other young people that are good aren't prospering...

Scriptures on the time of the Gentiles being fulfilled;

D&C 45:30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

JST-L 25 And he answered them, and said, In the generation in which the times of the Gentiles shall be fulfilled, there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations with perplexity, like the sea and the waves roaring. The earth also shall be troubled, and the waters of the great deep; 26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth. For the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Isn't this happening?)

3 Nephi 16:10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fullness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priest crafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fullness of my gospel from among them. (Aren't these all happening?)

2 Nephi 1:10 But behold, when the time cometh that they shall dwindle in unbelief, after they have received so great blessings from the hand of the Lord—having a knowledge of the creation of the earth, and all men, knowing the great and marvelous works of the Lord from the creation of the world; having power given them to do all things by faith; having all the commandments from the beginning, and having been brought by his infinite goodness into this precious land of promise—behold, I say, if the day shall come that they will reject the Holy One of Israel, the true Messiah, their Redeemer and their God, behold, the judgments of him that is just shall rest upon them. (We also see our form of unbelief in the church is mass members 6 days a week in Babylon...) (society rejecting the Holy One, is the sinning against the gospel, which is rejecting the gospel as a nation and society, which is what will cause the time of the Gentiles to be fulfilled. And even though many people say they are Christians, they are living 24/7 in Babylon. And didn't we hear something about pulling out of Babylon in conference talks?)

So...what does it all mean?

It can help for you to think that the problem isn't you. Other young people struggling can help you feel less anguish that it's not just you. But you can counter this by working at self sufficiency. If I were you I would concentrate heavily on self sufficiency and temple worship right now. That will help you gain the protection you need.

The time of the Gentiles being fulfilled also represents a period of time starting when tribulations and troubles start in the land and that's why that is significant.

There really is hope though. I was pondering the meaning of hope recently. Isn't hope the trust that Heavenly Father will create a future for us if we're living right and doing our part? And isn't that real? Of course it is. We will do our part, and in return while we're continuing to gather the rest of the house of Israel, he is adding and building more gospel programs.

Consider the Pathways programs and other mentorship programs in the church coming out. Also the concepts of tiny houses coming out, concepts of container gardens, and other ideas which people can build on their own. The Lord is already creating clever devices for the young people to grasp onto. We also need mentorship. I feel bad for all those people that aren't doing their home teaching right now.

Right now when things are escalating, you need to be gathering with other eagles to figure out how to more fully become an eagle; why did Jesus hint at this concept? Because it would be how we would build each other up. And I think that if we don't start learning how to truly live with other LDS people and really love them we won't be ready for what comes ahead. Perhaps you can start by working more closely with your bishop.

JSM 1:27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth. Also... JST-Luke 17;37 And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is gathered; or, in other words, whithersoever the saints are gathered, thither will the eagles be gathered together; or, thither will the remainder be gathered together. 38 This he spake, signifying the gathering of his saints; and of angels descending and gathering the remainder unto them; the one from the bed, the other from the grinding, and the other from the field, whithersoever he listeth.

And back to before I think you can go back and pray and meditate about what President Harold B. Lee promised that “the true servants of God, those who are doing their duty, will be protected and preserved if they will do as the Lord has counseled: ‘stand ye in holy places’”

[drtanner]

"God helps those who help help themselves" True statement. That does not make us immune from bad financial choices even if we are living righteously. He allows us to go through these things to learn, make adjustments and continue trying. He expects us to work, and that work includes intense mental effort in our attempts learn temporal principles.

[brianj]

So tying back together the earlier verses I gave you... 3 Nephi 6; 2 Nephi 1:10, 4 Nephi 1:26, D&C 87;7, spiritual version of D&C 49;23, JS-M 1:30...they are all showing that very soon the time of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. This is why so many crazy things are happening right now and why its hard for young people. It's no wonder you and virtually all other young people that are good aren't prospering...

Just to be clear, I'm not a young guy. My youngest child is halfway through high school. If many or most of my peers were not prospering temporally I would feel a lot better, but I'm the only one my age I know with a STEM degree who doesn't own a house, whose income is below median, who hasn't been able to achieve dreams and goals that cost a modest amount of money.

We all have our trials, and it seems prosperity will never be one of mine. I pray several times per day, I read scriptures daily, I listen to church magazine articles or general conference talks during my daily commute, I fulfill my callings, I do family history research, attend the temple weekly, try to be a missionary, home teach faithfully, and so forth. When I was an Elders Quorum president I saw people who had not gone home teaching in years, who don't have a temple recommend or feel worthy of one, but who are prospering financially.

I don't buy the idea that only people who are part of secret combinations prosper. I see a lot of good people, faithful church members, who are prospering. Most of them are successful because of support they received. I expect that if you are part of a big Mormon family and you lose a job, you'll have a big network of family members referring you to opportunities, talking you up to the person hiring, and asking friends for leads. I don't have close family support and church members have only referred me to fast food restaurants and similar low pay, dead end jobs.

[gclayjr]

brianj,

I don't buy the idea that only people who are part of secret combinations prosper. I see a lot of good people, faithful church members, who are prospering. Most of them are successful because of support they received. I expect that if you are part of a big Mormon family and you lose a job, you'll have a big network of family members referring you to opportunities, talking you up to the person hiring, and asking friends for leads. I don't have close family support and church members have only referred me to fast food restaurants and similar low pay, dead end jobs.

I didn't read all the posts above. If some were saying that only those who are part of secret combinations prosper, they are living in a twisted fantasy world. We all have our own trials. Some are of our own making and many are just those that come to us, regardless of our diligence in following true principles.

We should never judge others, or even ourselves, based upon the trials or successes of one's life.

I am a bit older than you are. I think my children are close to you in age. The world is changing. It is my observation that things are actually more difficult for your generation that it was for mine. I have 4 Sons. One was an accountant at Siemans, was laid off, and now works as a school bus driver. He has 5 little girls. Another son of mine works on a loading dock for Federal Express, Another one has a degree from Utah State University in Computer Science, and works at the Gas station for a local grocery store. My youngest son works in a Machine shop for a company that makes rocket engines. Being a machinist doesn't pay what it used to.

I don't think that my sons are all either sinful, or lazy, or even all making "poor Choices". Yes, each situation is unique, and some of it relates to either personality, or maybe not pursuing "better opportunities". But I think it is the times we live in, and God knows it, and just asks you to do the best given the situation you are in.

I also have 2 grand children who have graduated from Penn State. It took both of them more than 2 years after graduation to find decent jobs in their career field. Without going into exactly what each one is paid, they both earn less than half of the nearly $100,000 more or less they they owe in college expenses. They have their difficult rows to hoe.

Living with the trials of my children and grand children helps me to empathize with you and wish you the best.

I'm sorry you don't have the large family to support you as some of your friends, but don't you think it is great that for those who do have famiies, that those families step up and help them?

Regards,

George Clay

[gardener4life]

Ether 8

20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.

21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.

22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.

1 Nephi 17; Nephi is commanded to (build a ship) come out of babylon —His brethren, whom he loves, oppose him—

Verse 17 Our brother is a fool, for he thinketh that he can build a ship tell us to leave spiritual Babylon;
18 And thus my brethren did complain against me, and were desirous that they might not labor (for Zion), for they did not believe that I could build a ship that they might have to change and leave Babylon; neither would they believe that I was instructed of the Lord.
19 We knew that ye could not construct a ship tell us to leave spiritual Babylon, for we knew that ye were lacking in judgment;
20 And thou art like unto our father, led away by the foolish imaginations of his heart / twisted fantasy; yea, he hath led us out of the land of Jerusalem / Babylon, and we have wandered in the wilderness for these many years; and our women have toiled, being big with child; and they have borne children in the wilderness and suffered all things, save it were death; and it would have been better that they had died before they came out of Babylon than to have suffered these afflictions.

21 Behold, these many years we have suffered in the wilderness, which time we might have enjoyed our possessions and idols and spiritual babylon in the land of our inheritance; yea, and we might have been happy pursuing wealth and money as our Gods.

22 And we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem / Utah were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people; and our father hath judged them, and hath led us away because we would hearken unto his words; yea, and our brother is like unto him. And after this manner of language did my brethren murmur and complain against us.

Alma 21:6 Thou also sayest, except we repent we shall perish. How knowest thou the thought and intent of our hearts? How knowest thou that we have cause to repent? How knowest thou that we are not a righteous people? Behold, we have built sanctuaries, and we do assemble ourselves together to worship God. We do believe that God will save all men.

[brianj]

I'm sorry you don't have the large family to support you as some of your friends, but don't you think it is great that for those who do have families, that those families step up and help them?

Thanks for the kind words, George. How I feel about those with big supportive families depends on how I feel at any given moment. Sometimes I think it's great, sometimes I fight a great deal of resentment over what others have that I don't. And, from my observation of others, I think this is perfectly normal.