Priesthood connected to the endowment?

[gardener4life]

So I have this question...and it seems like a strange question for some. But its important to me to figure it out though i can't explain why.

Can someone receive the endowment without being connected to the priesthood? (Is that the same for both men and women too?)

For elders we don't send them on a mission without the endowment, and they get the Melchizedek priesthood first...but it would be impossible to get the endowment without holding the priesthood or being connected to the priesthood in some way right?

For sisters I'm not sure how the above would work. They generally don't get endowed without being tied to a priesthood holder, except if they've served a mission right?

[brianj]

I am not sure what you mean by "connected to the priesthood." The endowment is performed through priesthood authority.

Men must be ordained Elders to received the endowment. Men in mortality will receive the Melchizedek priesthood before receiving a temple recommend, and those who have died are ordained by proxy before the endowment.

Women are not ordained to the priesthood, though priesthood authority can be conferred upon them. Women are endowed prior to being sealed or going on a mission, just like men. If a woman isn't being sealed or going on a mission then she typically waits several more years before being endowed, and I believe this is also the general approach for men.
I know some women who didn't get sealed but received their endowment regardless. Some went on missions, others were endowed in their mid 20s.

[Yahtzee]

My comments in blue. I assume you're using "connected" from my post on the other thread wondering what the connection was between endowment and a man needing to be ordained to the office of an elder?

So I have this question...and it seems like a strange question for some. But its important to me to figure it out though i can't explain why.

Can someone receive the endowment without being connected to the priesthood? (Is that the same for both men and women too?)
It is not the same for women, since women do not hold the priesthood. Maybe the initiatory is different for men and has something about that...
For elders we don't send them on a mission without the endowment, and they get the Melchizedek priesthood first...but it would be impossible to get the endowment without holding the priesthood or being connected to the priesthood in some way right?
We don't send anyone on a mission who hasn't been through the temple, male or female. But a man must hold the Melchizedek Priesthood first, yes.

For sisters I'm not sure how the above would work. They generally don't get endowed without being tied to a priesthood holder, except if they've served a mission right?
No. Lots of sisters receive their endowment without serving a mission or upcoming marriage.

I am still trying to understand the intricacies of the priesthood so I cannot say exactly what it is about the Melchizedek priesthood or office of Elder that requires a man to hold those before receiving his temple ordinances. But it has made me want to do some research tonight. Hopefully your other questions were clarified a bit.

[JohnnyL]

A man doesn't have to receive his endowments before going on a mission--just that that is usually the case. For example, if a member is too far and/or poor for the temple (let's say it's a long train ride away in a foreign country), and serves in a mission/ country without a temple.

[h_p]

For sisters I'm not sure how the above would work. They generally don't get endowed without being tied to a priesthood holder, except if they've served a mission right?

There's no requirement for women to have some kind of connection to a priesthood holder before they can receive their endowments. There may have been some church policies in the past about that, I don't really know. But presently, at least, they just need to be spiritually mature enough to make the covenants. If they're applying for a mission, they have to receive their call before going through the temple--that much is stated in Handbook 1. Otherwise, it's between her and the Lord and her bishop/SP to decide when she's ready.

I know some bishops make women wait until they're getting married or something, or beyond hope of getting married before allowing them to go through. That happened with my sister back in the 90's. She was moving into her upper 20's and was still single but wanted to go, but her bishop gave her flack about it. But there's a girl in my ward who just turned 19 a few months ago, isn't planning to serve a mission, and she'll be getting endowed this month.

[Yahtzee]

JohnnyL, I am not familiar with foreign MTC's, but there's often a bit of a scramble for branch presidents at the Provo one to make sure all the new missionaries have been through the temple. I assume there's a temple near all the MTC's, but admittedly I don't know for sure. Have you heard of anyone recently serving a mission without receiving their endowment? https://www.lds.org/new-era/2014/02/to- ... n?lang=eng

But if you have chosen to serve a mission, He especially wants to ensure that you have these blessings before you go because, among other things, your ability to teach and testify as a missionary will be enhanced through these blessings and through what you are taught in the temple.

I did find this for gardener4life though. You should read the whole thing page. https://www.lds.org/manual/duties-and-b ... s?lang=eng

Conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood

Show visual 4-c, “To become exalted, men must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood.”
Worthy adult male members of the Church should have the Melchizedek Priesthood conferred on them and be ordained to an office in that priesthood. This priesthood allows a man to receive the power and authority of God. It becomes a source of knowledge for him, helping him understand spiritual things. With it he can be authorized to perform the ordinances of salvation for other people, both living and dead.

A woman can receive the blessings of the Melchizedek Priesthood by receiving the ordinances of the gospel and by being married to a righteous priesthood holder. The blessings that come into a home when a man magnifies his priesthood affect his wife as much as they affect him. Perhaps the most important way a woman participates in the blessings of the priesthood is by receiving her endowment and being married in the temple.

[brianj]

I know someone who joined the church while living near Novorossiysk, Krasnodar Krai, Russia. When she chose to serve a mission she was assigned to the St. Petersburg mission and sent there without ever attending an MTC. I was fascinated by her stories of how little she knew when she went on a mission and other missionaries trying to give her the training they received at the MTC. I don't think she received her endowment before her mission.

But this is the exception. I'm sure most missionaries, male and female, are endowed before serving.

[JohnnyL]

I know someone who joined the church while living near Novorossiysk, Krasnodar Krai, Russia. When she chose to serve a mission she was assigned to the St. Petersburg mission and sent there without ever attending an MTC. I was fascinated by her stories of how little she knew when she went on a mission and other missionaries trying to give her the training they received at the MTC. I don't think she received her endowment before her mission.

But this is the exception. I'm sure most missionaries, male and female, are endowed before serving.

Yeah, just like that. A few do become exceptions. An elder in our mission, similar. No MTC, no endowment.

[JohnnyL]

For sisters I'm not sure how the above would work. They generally don't get endowed without being tied to a priesthood holder, except if they've served a mission right?

... I know some bishops make women wait until they're getting married or something, or beyond hope of getting married before allowing them to go through. That happened with my sister back in the 90's. She was moving into her upper 20's and was still single but wanted to go, but her bishop gave her flack about it. But there's a girl in my ward who just turned 19 a few months ago, isn't planning to serve a mission, and she'll be getting endowed this month.

Extreme on the first, a little early in general for the second.

[h_p]

Extreme on the first, a little early in general for the second.

The vast majority of people going on missions is getting endowed at that age, or even earlier.

[JohnnyL]

Extreme on the first, a little early in general for the second.

The vast majority of people going on missions is getting endowed at that age, or even earlier.

Right. Because they are going on missions.

[Robin Hood]

There have been some incidents where someone has received the priesthood and been endowed, but not baptised.
My son encountered someone at the MTC (a fellow missionary) who had to be baptised while he was there.

[h_p]

Extreme on the first, a little early in general for the second.

The vast majority of people going on missions is getting endowed at that age, or even earlier.

Right. Because they are going on missions.

I'm not understanding what you're getting at here. Could you elaborate?

[True]

I have personal experience with this one. When I was 20, I desired to go through the temple. I made an appointment to meet with the bishop (at an office in his home). I told him of my desire and all of the reasons I wanted to. He then asked me if I sustained the prophet. Did I sustain the 12? Did I sustain the general authorities? Did I sustain the stake president and all local authorities? Well then I couldn't go through bc they said I had to be getting married or going on a mission. I told him I knew others that had and pleaded with him to let me go. That is when he told me that I was spiritually and emotionally unstable and immature. (Which was not true.) I was caught so off guard that I teared up and asked to leave through his back yard (his son who was in our ward was out in the house and I would have had to pass by him. He had wanted to date me but I refused because of idealogical differences that could not be reconciled and because I didn't want to.)

I was so horrified and hurt that I did not want to see the bishop again but figured if I just avoided him I wouldnt have to deal with him and that is basically what happened.

Two years later I had had some sever challenges and desires the blessings of the temple. I went in to my new bishop and told him of the reasons why I wanted to go and of my worthiness, how I had kept myself spotless from the world and my desire to claim my blessings. With a chuckle and smile at my determinedness he said, absolutely!

That time of learning was one of the best of my life. I went to the temple continually and could not be kept away. A few years later, after I was married, I ran into the bishop that refused my request and he apologized to me. He told me that of his whole time being the bishop, that is the only thing that he regretted and had felt bad about it for all of these years (it had been about 5 years). I accepted his apology.

I have to tell you though, that after everything I went through to get there, it made my experience even sweeter. God has a way of making everything beautiful and better than it would have been. I'm glad it happened as it did.

[brianj]

Extreme on the first, a little early in general for the second.

The vast majority of people going on missions is getting endowed at that age, or even earlier.

Right. Because they are going on missions.

I'm not understanding what you're getting at here. Could you elaborate?

I don't know that an explicit reason has ever been given, but whenever possible those called as missionaries are required to attend a temple before they serve on their missions. Earlier in this thread people mentioned missionaries from poor countries without temples serving missions without being endowed. I mentioned a friend from Russia who served in St. Petersburg without ever going to an MTC. I subsequently asked her, and she told me that she started her mission by going straight to the mission home from her own home. Shortly after she began missionary service the paperwork was initiated to get her permissions and visas to attend a temple, which she did while serving as a missionary.

[h_p]

I don't know that an explicit reason has ever been given, but whenever possible those called as missionaries are required to attend a temple before they serve on their missions. Earlier in this thread people mentioned missionaries from poor countries without temples serving missions without being endowed. I mentioned a friend from Russia who served in St. Petersburg without ever going to an MTC. I subsequently asked her, and she told me that she started her mission by going straight to the mission home from her own home. Shortly after she began missionary service the paperwork was initiated to get her permissions and visas to attend a temple, which she did while serving as a missionary.

Do you feel like people are getting their endowments too early, then?

[JohnnyL]

I don't know that an explicit reason has ever been given, but whenever possible those called as missionaries are required to attend a temple before they serve on their missions. Earlier in this thread people mentioned missionaries from poor countries without temples serving missions without being endowed. I mentioned a friend from Russia who served in St. Petersburg without ever going to an MTC. I subsequently asked her, and she told me that she started her mission by going straight to the mission home from her own home. Shortly after she began missionary service the paperwork was initiated to get her permissions and visas to attend a temple, which she did while serving as a missionary.

Do you feel like people are getting their endowments too early, then?

Many people who wanted to get endowments were 19, and not really prepared--I think leaders were seeing it more as girls wanting to make a "spiritual statement" so they could up their status to get a husband, instead of a spiritual commitment or covenant. Kind of like guys with children who still wanted to go on missions. When's too early? Up to the person, life, situations, leaders, motivation, stability, maturity, etc.

[Yahtzee]

I don't know that an explicit reason has ever been given, but whenever possible those called as missionaries are required to attend a temple before they serve on their missions.

My post above quotes the reason given by the general authorities. The blessings of the endowment will help them to teach and testify, to be better missionaries.

I thought of this thread as I taught the youth today. The lesson was about preparing to go to the temple. There was a q&a with this quote,

Single members in their late teens or early twenties who have not received a mission call and are not engaged to be married in the temple are generally not recommended to receive their own endowment.

(sorry, no link as I pulled it up in the app, but it was called commonly asked questions)
So regarding the question of age, it depends on what you think "early twenties" means.

[JohnnyL]

I have personal experience with this one. When I was 20, I desired to go through the temple. I made an appointment to meet with the bishop (at an office in his home). I told him of my desire and all of the reasons I wanted to. He then asked me if I sustained the prophet. Did I sustain the 12? Did I sustain the general authorities? Did I sustain the stake president and all local authorities? Well then I couldn't go through bc they said I had to be getting married or going on a mission. I told him I knew others that had and pleaded with him to let me go. That is when he told me that I was spiritually and emotionally unstable and immature. (Which was not true.) I was caught so off guard that I teared up and asked to leave through his back yard (his son who was in our ward was out in the house and I would have had to pass by him. He had wanted to date me but I refused because of idealogical differences that could not be reconciled and because I didn't want to.)

I was so horrified and hurt that I did not want to see the bishop again but figured if I just avoided him I wouldnt have to deal with him and that is basically what happened.

Two years later I had had some sever challenges and desires the blessings of the temple. I went in to my new bishop and told him of the reasons why I wanted to go and of my worthiness, how I had kept myself spotless from the world and my desire to claim my blessings. With a chuckle and smile at my determinedness he said, absolutely!

That time of learning was one of the best of my life. I went to the temple continually and could not be kept away. A few years later, after I was married, I ran into the bishop that refused my request and he apologized to me. He told me that of his whole time being the bishop, that is the only thing that he regretted and had felt bad about it for all of these years (it had been about 5 years). I accepted his apology...

I'm sure it had nothing with your refusing to date his son, lol. My brother got his PB from the father of a girl he had dumped not too long before. A few family members have wondered how much it influenced his PB. Hopefully not, in either case, though.

I can't think of hardly any bishops who only had one regret after five years, and not that too bad at that. Lucky guy.

[brianj]

I don't know that an explicit reason has ever been given, but whenever possible those called as missionaries are required to attend a temple before they serve on their missions. Earlier in this thread people mentioned missionaries from poor countries without temples serving missions without being endowed. I mentioned a friend from Russia who served in St. Petersburg without ever going to an MTC. I subsequently asked her, and she told me that she started her mission by going straight to the mission home from her own home. Shortly after she began missionary service the paperwork was initiated to get her permissions and visas to attend a temple, which she did while serving as a missionary.

Do you feel like people are getting their endowments too early, then?

I know I wasn't really prepared for my endowment. To me it was more of an initiation than anything else - now I was part of the 'in' group. I had no idea what the endowment was when I went to the temple and didn't really want whatever it was going to be. I just wanted to not be treated like an outsider.
I have heard from several others who expressed an opinion that they weren't ready for the endowment when they received it.

I don't know how to improve preparedness for the temple. All I can suggest is making sure people have the maturity to keep their covenants and regularly return to the temple until they begin to appreciate the experience.

[h_p]

I know I wasn't really prepared for my endowment. To me it was more of an initiation than anything else - now I was part of the 'in' group. I had no idea what the endowment was when I went to the temple and didn't really want whatever it was going to be. I just wanted to not be treated like an outsider.
I have heard from several others who expressed an opinion that they weren't ready for the endowment when they received it.

I don't know how to improve preparedness for the temple. All I can suggest is making sure people have the maturity to keep their covenants and regularly return to the temple until they begin to appreciate the experience.

Thanks, brianj, that's good stuff to think about. I feel like I wasn't prepared for the temple rituals, and it was kind of bewildering to me (I was 18, almost 19, before my mission, when I went), but mostly I remember wishing I had been made aware beforehand of the covenants I would be making that day. I don't remember taking a temple prep class, but I've forgotten a lot over the last 30+ years. Regardless, it was an incredible, life-changing spiritual experience for me, so I'm grateful God was gracious enough to give me that in spite of my lack of preparation.

I agree that people shouldn't be rushed into going, but there's so much social pressure for practically everything we do in the church, I don't know how to get away from that. I think if anyone gets rushed into going, it's the missionaries and about-to-be-marrieds. One thing I would like to see would be more preparation through the youth programs of the church. This is something we've talked about as a bishopric, that we shouldn't be focusing the youth so much on missions and marriage goals that the temple endowment gets relegated to a secondary event or even a formality. The endowment should stand as its own pinnacle to climb. Unfortunately, I think changing our culture to something like that will take a monumental effort.

[h_p]

I thought of this thread as I taught the youth today. The lesson was about preparing to go to the temple. There was a q&a with this quote,

Single members in their late teens or early twenties who have not received a mission call and are not engaged to be married in the temple are generally not recommended to receive their own endowment.

(sorry, no link as I pulled it up in the app, but it was called commonly asked questions)
So regarding the question of age, it depends on what you think "early twenties" means.

Here's the source of that quote, btw:
https://www.lds.org/church/temples/freq ... -questions

My reading of the guidance in Handbook 1 seem to contradict that FAQ a bit:

Most single members will be interviewed for a recommend for their own endowment when they are called as missionaries or when they are to be married in a temple.

Worthy single members who have not received their endowment in connection with a mission or marriage may become eligible to receive the endowment when the bishop and the stake president determine that they are sufficiently mature to understand and keep the sacred covenants made in a temple. Such eligibility is determined individually for each person, not by using routine criteria such as reaching a certain age, leaving home for college or employment, or simply desiring to observe the temple marriages of siblings or friends.

In assessing questions of maturity, preparation, and timeliness, the bishop and the stake president take into account a single adult’s personal circumstances and conduct over time as well as satisfactory responses to the temple recommend questions. The bishop and stake president should also consider such matters as the individual’s depth of gospel understanding and testimony, faithfulness in Church service, and appreciation of the implications of entering into sacred covenants, in particular the temple covenants, including appropriate wearing of the temple garment.

So you can interpret the Handbook guidance to say, essentially: "you can get your endowment when you leave on a mission, get married, or become spiritually mature." :))

[Yahtzee]

I think I prefer the handbook one. Wish I had read that for the class instead!
I can add myself to the list of people who weren't ready. I was ready for marriage, but had only recently come back into full activity. I could barely fulfill a calling! I think BYU bishops are more concerned with "better to marry than to burn" so they didn't really ask about spiritual maturity. They just make sure you're keeping enough commandments to be considered clean. Ah, well. It turned out well in the end. Like h_p, I think it would have helped if I had known what covenants I'd be making. Temple prep should be mandatory.

[brianj]

I know I wasn't really prepared for my endowment. To me it was more of an initiation than anything else - now I was part of the 'in' group. I had no idea what the endowment was when I went to the temple and didn't really want whatever it was going to be. I just wanted to not be treated like an outsider.
I have heard from several others who expressed an opinion that they weren't ready for the endowment when they received it.

I don't know how to improve preparedness for the temple. All I can suggest is making sure people have the maturity to keep their covenants and regularly return to the temple until they begin to appreciate the experience.

Thanks, brianj, that's good stuff to think about. I feel like I wasn't prepared for the temple rituals, and it was kind of bewildering to me (I was 18, almost 19, before my mission, when I went), but mostly I remember wishing I had been made aware beforehand of the covenants I would be making that day. I don't remember taking a temple prep class, but I've forgotten a lot over the last 30+ years. Regardless, it was an incredible, life-changing spiritual experience for me, so I'm grateful God was gracious enough to give me that in spite of my lack of preparation.

I agree that people shouldn't be rushed into going, but there's so much social pressure for practically everything we do in the church, I don't know how to get away from that. I think if anyone gets rushed into going, it's the missionaries and about-to-be-marrieds. One thing I would like to see would be more preparation through the youth programs of the church. This is something we've talked about as a bishopric, that we shouldn't be focusing the youth so much on missions and marriage goals that the temple endowment gets relegated to a secondary event or even a formality. The endowment should stand as its own pinnacle to climb. Unfortunately, I think changing our culture to something like that will take a monumental effort.

I was anxious about the covenants I would make, and already understood that I would covenant to wear new underwear, but it would really have put me at ease if someone had told me that most of the covenants made involve keeping commandments that I am already keeping.

One September or October, about seven months after I was baptized, a Bishop told me he wanted me on a mission before the end of the year. Of course that was essentially impossible, as I wouldn't have been a member of the church for a year, and I pushed back at the unreasonable pressure. I also received a great deal of social pressure from my peers, particularly the young women, and that really pushed me away from a mission. Another year later the pressure had dissipated and I finally heard the Spirit telling me to go.

Maybe the pressure is good for some people, but I know others who have turned away from the church because of that pressure.

[h_p]

Maybe the pressure is good for some people, but I know others who have turned away from the church because of that pressure.

My son being one of them. One more casualty of the conform-to-be-righteous culture.