Deleted

[Arenera]

I think all members should have both of these declarations framed in their house somewhere. Both are in my bedroom on my walls and make great decorative pieces. The words in them are really important for modern Mormons.

I know many that do.

[inho]

I guess I need to re-read The Living Christ. In addition to this thread, I was reminded about it last Sunday. The visiting high council member told us that the stake presidency has suggested us to read it.

[Robin Hood]

I would never frame these and hang them on my wall; for the same reason I won't have a picture of Jesus, or of a temple etc.
For me, it borders on idolatry.

[inho]

I would never frame these and hang them on my wall; for the same reason I won't have a picture of Jesus, or of a temple etc.
For me, it borders on idolatry.

To be honest, I don't have any religious art on my wall either. For me, it is a question of decor. I don't think that pictures of Jesus or temples border idolatry. They are just daily reminders. Just like reading the scriptures daily is not a form of worshipping books. Similarly, looking at images often is not idolatry, they just direct our thoughts to Savior (like reading the scriptures should do).

[Robin Hood]

I would never frame these and hang them on my wall; for the same reason I won't have a picture of Jesus, or of a temple etc.
For me, it borders on idolatry.

To be honest, I don't have any religious art on my wall either. For me, it is a question of decor. I don't think that pictures of Jesus or temples border idolatry. They are just daily reminders. Just like reading the scriptures daily is not a form of worshipping books. Similarly, looking at images often is not idolatry, they just direct our thoughts to Savior (like reading the scriptures should do).

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is under the water......."

That does it for me.
I'm even opposed to the church's infatuation with the Christus statue.

[MMbelieve]

I would never frame these and hang them on my wall; for the same reason I won't have a picture of Jesus, or of a temple etc.
For me, it borders on idolatry.

To be honest, I don't have any religious art on my wall either. For me, it is a question of decor. I don't think that pictures of Jesus or temples border idolatry. They are just daily reminders. Just like reading the scriptures daily is not a form of worshipping books. Similarly, looking at images often is not idolatry, they just direct our thoughts to Savior (like reading the scriptures should do).

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is under the water......."

That does it for me.
I'm even opposed to the church's infatuation with the Christus statue.

You do have a point. The statue is a bit much but there is a time and place to have religious art.

A graven image is an image usually hand carved out of wood or similar material for the purpose of worship. If we knelt down before the Christus then I would find it weird. I think the point is that we are not to worship materials but worship Christ and God as they are, not a statue or painting or anything else.

Ie...not placing God in a lesser position and worship his "image" instead of Him.

So a print out of the proclamation is nothing of the sort. It's just a creed basically, a standard to live by.

Tell me you do have something hanging on your walls and they are not empty.

[Michelle]

My walls are bare for good reason, unless you count marker "art."

I do have a copy of the The Family: A Proclamation to the World on my mantle above the fireplace, but like all framed art at our house, it lost its glass long when children got too rambunctious.

We keep thinking about getting a nice big family picture fit the mantle, but s piece of glass that big. . .

Maybe when the kids are grown.

[Robin Hood]

I would never frame these and hang them on my wall; for the same reason I won't have a picture of Jesus, or of a temple etc.
For me, it borders on idolatry.

To be honest, I don't have any religious art on my wall either. For me, it is a question of decor. I don't think that pictures of Jesus or temples border idolatry. They are just daily reminders. Just like reading the scriptures daily is not a form of worshipping books. Similarly, looking at images often is not idolatry, they just direct our thoughts to Savior (like reading the scriptures should do).

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is under the water......."

That does it for me.
I'm even opposed to the church's infatuation with the Christus statue.

You do have a point. The statue is a bit much but there is a time and place to have religious art.

A graven image is an image usually hand carved out of wood or similar material for the purpose of worship. If we knelt down before the Christus then I would find it weird. I think the point is that we are not to worship materials but worship Christ and God as they are, not a statue or painting or anything else.

Ie...not placing God in a lesser position and worship his "image" instead of Him.

So a print out of the proclamation is nothing of the sort. It's just a creed basically, a standard to live by.

Tell me you do have something hanging on your walls and they are not empty.

My walls are bare.
I like the minimalist look.

[kittycat51]

I would never frame these and hang them on my wall; for the same reason I won't have a picture of Jesus, or of a temple etc.
For me, it borders on idolatry.

Wow. I have 6 temples within a 30 minute drive from my house. They ALL have artwork of the Savior on their walls. Most of the chapels I have ever attended also have artwork of the Savior. This is all wrong then in your eyes? /:) My house is full of church related artwork. I want my children to know what's important to me. I don't have shrines around them and I don't kneel before them. My beautiful picture of the Savior over my fireplace brings me a sense of peace and calm when I look at it. It reminds me of who really is in charge. My picture of the Salt Lake Temple reminds of the beautiful temple I was married in and the covenants I made therein and how important the temple is in my life. I also have a huge picture of George Washington praying at Valley Forge. This picture expresses a powerful affirmation of faith, patriotic duty, and the deep spiritual depths in the founding of our country. (USA) **== It reminds me that yes even George Washington prayed to the Almighty. It reminds me how important daily prayer is.

I see nothing wrong with any of this.

[Robin Hood]

I would never frame these and hang them on my wall; for the same reason I won't have a picture of Jesus, or of a temple etc.
For me, it borders on idolatry.

Wow. I have 6 temples within a 30 minute drive from my house. They ALL have artwork of the Savior on their walls. Most of the chapels I have ever attended also have artwork of the Savior. This is all wrong then in your eyes? /:) My house is full of church related artwork. I want my children to know what's important to me. I don't have shrines around them and I don't kneel before them. My beautiful picture of the Savior over my fireplace brings me a sense of peace and calm when I look at it. It reminds me of who really is in charge. My picture of the Salt Lake Temple reminds of the beautiful temple I was married in and the covenants I made therein and how important the temple is in my life. I also have a huge picture of George Washington praying at Valley Forge. This picture expresses a powerful affirmation of faith, patriotic duty, and the deep spiritual depths in the founding of our country. (USA) **== It reminds me that yes even George Washington prayed to the Almighty. It reminds me how important daily prayer is.

I see nothing wrong with any of this.

I know, it's difficult to see what's wrong with this.
But God does..... clearly. The 2nd commandment leaves little wiggle room. At least that's how I see it.
Statues, pictures etc are either graven images or likenesses.
But each to their own.

[cyclOps]

What about the title of liberty?

[Robin Hood]

I have a little statue of Jesus holding a lamb. I don't pray to the statue.

The problem is, the 2nd commandment says nothing about praying to the image.

[samizdat]

To go back to the subject of the OP it is very important to read it. If we fail to do so don´t be surprised in the next five or ten years that we are on the same road that we were when we were counseled to read the Family Proclamation.

There are already many atheists and other religious groups that are declaring that there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus ever lived.

[brianj]

I have a little statue of Jesus holding a lamb. I don't pray to the statue.

The problem is, the 2nd commandment says nothing about praying to the image.

It sounds like you dismiss the possibility of clarification from modern prophets.

[Robin Hood]

I have a little statue of Jesus holding a lamb. I don't pray to the statue.

The problem is, the 2nd commandment says nothing about praying to the image.

It sounds like you dismiss the possibility of clarification from modern prophets.

I don't believe God contradicts himself. The 10 commandments are foundational and could not be over-ruled by modern prophets. They were written in stone for a reason. In fact, if that was attempted, I would side with the 10 commandments, and I think most people would.

[inho]

I don't believe God contradicts himself. The 10 commandments are foundational and could not be over-ruled by modern prophets. They were written in stone for a reason. In fact, if that was attempted, I would side with the 10 commandments, and I think most people would.

So, how strict is your interpretation? Is taking photographs ok? Ex 20:4 talks about making images in general. Can you have a picture of a fish, or is that a graven image of that which is in the water?

[Robin Hood]

I don't believe God contradicts himself. The 10 commandments are foundational and could not be over-ruled by modern prophets. They were written in stone for a reason. In fact, if that was attempted, I would side with the 10 commandments, and I think most people would.

So, how strict is your interpretation? Is taking photographs ok? Ex 20:4 talks about making images in general. Can you have a picture of a fish, or is that a graven image of that which is in the water?

Very interesting question.
I think we need to draw a distinction between the Ten Commandments, and the Hebrews attempts at interpreting and implementing them.
I wouldn't have a picture of a fish on my wall. Can't understand why anyone would, to be honest.

[inho]

I don't believe God contradicts himself. The 10 commandments are foundational and could not be over-ruled by modern prophets. They were written in stone for a reason. In fact, if that was attempted, I would side with the 10 commandments, and I think most people would.

So, how strict is your interpretation? Is taking photographs ok? Ex 20:4 talks about making images in general. Can you have a picture of a fish, or is that a graven image of that which is in the water?

Very interesting question.
I think we need to draw a distinction between the Ten Commandments, and the Hebrews attempts at interpreting and implementing them.
I wouldn't have a picture of a fish on my wall. Can't understand why anyone would, to be honest.

I would like to hear your thoughts about that distinction. Maybe we can continue this discussion in the other thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=45955&p=794476#p794476

[shadow]

I don't believe God contradicts himself. The 10 commandments are foundational and could not be over-ruled by modern prophets. They were written in stone for a reason. In fact, if that was attempted, I would side with the 10 commandments, and I think most people would.

So, how strict is your interpretation? Is taking photographs ok? Ex 20:4 talks about making images in general. Can you have a picture of a fish, or is that a graven image of that which is in the water?

Very interesting question.
I think we need to draw a distinction between the Ten Commandments, and the Hebrews attempts at interpreting and implementing them.
I wouldn't have a picture of a fish on my wall. Can't understand why anyone would, to be honest.

Maybe fish isn't the best example, how about a picture of your family?
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Unless a person is worshipping the picture, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Mark]

I don't believe God contradicts himself. The 10 commandments are foundational and could not be over-ruled by modern prophets. They were written in stone for a reason. In fact, if that was attempted, I would side with the 10 commandments, and I think most people would.

So, how strict is your interpretation? Is taking photographs ok? Ex 20:4 talks about making images in general. Can you have a picture of a fish, or is that a graven image of that which is in the water?

Very interesting question.
I think we need to draw a distinction between the Ten Commandments, and the Hebrews attempts at interpreting and implementing them.
I wouldn't have a picture of a fish on my wall. Can't understand why anyone would, to be honest.

Maybe fish isn't the best example, how about a picture of your family?
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Unless a person is worshipping the picture, it shouldn't be a problem.

It's called looking beyond the mark. (No pun intended) Here's a good talk about how to avoid doing that. It should be posted weekly on this forum.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2003/03/look ... k?lang=eng

[brianj]

I have a little statue of Jesus holding a lamb. I don't pray to the statue.

The problem is, the 2nd commandment says nothing about praying to the image.

It sounds like you dismiss the possibility of clarification from modern prophets.

I don't believe God contradicts himself. The 10 commandments are foundational and could not be over-ruled by modern prophets. They were written in stone for a reason. In fact, if that was attempted, I would side with the 10 commandments, and I think most people would.

The ten commandments don't say anything about fornication, only adultery. But modern prophets have stated that both chastity and fidelity are commandments. Do you dismiss the instruction to not fornicate because it's not explicitly outlined in Exodus 20?

President Monson has a picture of the Savior in his office.

Would a church leader guided by prophecy permit the church to provide paintings of Christ for temples, meetinghouses, and homes if those pictures were a violation of the commandments?

[Robin Hood]

The problem is, the 2nd commandment says nothing about praying to the image.

It sounds like you dismiss the possibility of clarification from modern prophets.

I don't believe God contradicts himself. The 10 commandments are foundational and could not be over-ruled by modern prophets. They were written in stone for a reason. In fact, if that was attempted, I would side with the 10 commandments, and I think most people would.

The ten commandments don't say anything about fornication, only adultery. But modern prophets have stated that both chastity and fidelity are commandments. Do you dismiss the instruction to not fornicate because it's not explicitly outlined in Exodus 20?

President Monson has a picture of the Savior in his office.

Would a church leader guided by prophecy permit the church to provide paintings of Christ for temples, meetinghouses, and homes if those pictures were a violation of the commandments?

Of course not, but that's not what I was saying.
Just because something is absent from the 10 commandments (fornication, homosexuality, word of wisdom etc) doesn't mean they don't apply to us. But we have no right to ignore what is in the 10 commandments, just because it's inconvenient.
Surely you can see the difference, and therefore the weakness of the argument you made?

[lemuel]

Back to the OP--I think our families would be happier if we framed D&C 121 and put it on the walls instead of the Proclamation.

[Sunain]

Hanging pictures of Jesus or the temple in your home is not a sign of disrespect, idolworship or a graven image. We've been told by Prophets to do so as a reminder of righteous living, just like the sacrament is a reminder each week of the covenants we've made.

Hang up pictures of the temple in your home. President Spencer W. Kimball said, “It seems to me it would be a fine thing if every set of parents would have in every bedroom in their house a picture of the temple so the [child] from the time he is an infant could look at the picture every day and it becomes a part of his life. When he reaches the age that he needs to make this very important decision, it will already have been made.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2011/09/sett ... e?lang=eng

Brother Hawkins said he hopes the truths found in the proclamation will “live more in our hearts than just hang on our walls.” At BYU they teach a class on the doctrines and practices of the Family Proclamation.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... world.html

A family hangs a picture of Jesus Christ in their home.

https://www.lds.org/media-library/image ... 6?lang=eng

I would actually like for them to add the Living Christ and the Family Proclamation to the standard works, be it more Sections of D&C or as addendum's rather than separate documents. I keep a copy of both in my scriptures anyhow.

I remember the ward I was in when then proclamation came out gave all the members a cardstock copy of it for framing.

[brlenox]

I would never frame these and hang them on my wall; for the same reason I won't have a picture of Jesus, or of a temple etc.
For me, it borders on idolatry.

Wow. I have 6 temples within a 30 minute drive from my house. They ALL have artwork of the Savior on their walls. Most of the chapels I have ever attended also have artwork of the Savior. This is all wrong then in your eyes? /:) My house is full of church related artwork. I want my children to know what's important to me. I don't have shrines around them and I don't kneel before them. My beautiful picture of the Savior over my fireplace brings me a sense of peace and calm when I look at it. It reminds me of who really is in charge. My picture of the Salt Lake Temple reminds of the beautiful temple I was married in and the covenants I made therein and how important the temple is in my life. I also have a huge picture of George Washington praying at Valley Forge. This picture expresses a powerful affirmation of faith, patriotic duty, and the deep spiritual depths in the founding of our country. (USA) **== It reminds me that yes even George Washington prayed to the Almighty. It reminds me how important daily prayer is.

I see nothing wrong with any of this.

I know, it's difficult to see what's wrong with this.
But God does..... clearly. The 2nd commandment leaves little wiggle room. At least that's how I see it.
Statues, pictures etc are either graven images or likenesses.
But each to their own.

I have a Gumby and a Pokey figurine that I gave my kids several years ago and now my grand children chew on Gumby's head. Idolatry starts young.