On Wolves

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BackBlast
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On Wolves

Post by BackBlast »

I just wanted to put forward something I have learned recently as the Lord has identified several wolves in my life to me.

Often, as a people, we want to say that the metaphorical wolf-in-sheep's-clothing can be identified by the vigilant because they are only in sheep's clothing to "the group". And that I do not have the same general blindness of this group.

I wish to provide an alternative to that narrative. The metaphorical wolf actually represents the people that you, individually, wish to associate with that will do you harm. Those that might do you harm that you believe you have identified are not included in this metaphor. You are already aware of them. You are cautious of them. If they are truly a wolf or not is another matter, but they don't look like sheep to you. The wolf in sheep's clothing, to you, looks like a sheep. The only method of identifying them is to be open to, and to be accepting of the guidance of the Lord.

As I said earlier, I have been shown who several of the wolves in my life are. And it surprised me who they are. People I have sought to have a relationship with. People who, for the most part, believe as I do. There is no vast doctrinal gulf or clear apostate direction to them. In fact, I harbor great hopes that many will be saved and that others will humble themselves from their current states and also be saved. Some, I speculate, are even well advanced on their way to attaining exaltation. That does not change the fact that they are, in a manner, a threat to me and mine, here and now, in this life. That I would have, if left blind, walked into dangerous paths instead of holding them at a careful distance.

They may not be - and probably are not - a threat to others. It isn't a universally applicable label. Once a wolf always a wolf to everyone and everything is probably more of an exception than the rule. Person A may do great harm to person B, but be a great aid and help to person C, D, E, and F. Person B listens and is warned, and avoids person A, and need not speak up against person A to C, D, E and F. Those relationships are healthy.

Which brings me to my last observation. Many of these wolves do not even intend to hurt you. May even say in their hearts, it is for their own good that I do this, I am trying to help them. In their blindness they do the harm, and this makes them look all the more like sheep.

I hope some may find these observations useful.

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mirkwood
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Re: On Wolves

Post by mirkwood »

I'm curious if you are still sold on the avow/callout and if this is related?

BackBlast
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Re: On Wolves

Post by BackBlast »

mirkwood wrote: June 27th, 2017, 6:12 pm I'm curious if you are still sold on the avow/callout and if this is related?
It was not related. The wolves in my life are family members, no doctrinal issues or questions involved at all. On her side it's most of her extended family, on my side it's about half of my immediate family. I was also shown their false prophecy on their parts when I was told, which I found very interesting. Specifically, they would produce false prophecies about the consequences of the number of children my wife and I have/are having. When someone disagrees with how many or the manner in which you raise children, in today's world there are all kinds of levers they can pull to give you grief.

My take on AVOW... Well, individuals are moved about at the will and pleasure of the Lord. I believe that there will be gatherings of various kinds in the future, but I know very little about how and when they will occur. The AVOW mindset is particular to a rendition (church executes a grand plan for relocation and few choose to leave, details vary), how accurate it is overall I know not. It probably is for at least some. I do not like to generalize such an idea, I prefer instead to individualize the path through events. Go find out what you should be doing, and maybe, right now, that means family history work instead of watching the news daily and stressing about the size of the larder.

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AI2.0
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Re: On Wolves

Post by AI2.0 »

BackBlast wrote: June 30th, 2017, 1:43 pm
mirkwood wrote: June 27th, 2017, 6:12 pm I'm curious if you are still sold on the avow/callout and if this is related?
It was not related. The wolves in my life are family members, no doctrinal issues or questions involved at all. On her side it's most of her extended family, on my side it's about half of my immediate family. I was also shown their false prophecy on their parts when I was told, which I found very interesting. Specifically, they would produce false prophecies about the consequences of the number of children my wife and I have/are having. When someone disagrees with how many or the manner in which you raise children, in today's world there are all kinds of levers they can pull to give you grief.

My take on AVOW... Well, individuals are moved about at the will and pleasure of the Lord. I believe that there will be gatherings of various kinds in the future, but I know very little about how and when they will occur. The AVOW mindset is particular to a rendition (church executes a grand plan for relocation and few choose to leave, details vary), how accurate it is overall I know not. It probably is for at least some. I do not like to generalize such an idea, I prefer instead to individualize the path through events. Go find out what you should be doing, and maybe, right now, that means family history work instead of watching the news daily and stressing about the size of the larder.

I don't find it conducive to healthy family interaction to call others 'wolves' because I disagree with their opinions. I also don't call their opinions 'false prophecies' and it isn't a good idea to alienate most of the extended family of your spouse if you can help it. Maybe you should practice patience and charity to keep the peace and if they are saying things that are wrong, politely ignore them.

BackBlast
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Re: On Wolves

Post by BackBlast »

AI2.0 wrote: June 30th, 2017, 2:22 pm I don't find it conducive to healthy family interaction to call others 'wolves' because I disagree with their opinions. I also don't call their opinions 'false prophecies' and it isn't a good idea to alienate most of the extended family of your spouse if you can help it. Maybe you should practice patience and charity to keep the peace and if they are saying things that are wrong, politely ignore them.
Your opinion is noted.

What I am sharing here is not the result of casual efforts. I was given specific warnings in a dream that became a waking vision and all these things were present, including them giving me false prophecies, turning into wolves, etc. The Lord presented them as such, and His opinion matters to me more than yours. This is also why I tried to temper what it means to be a wolf. They are not evil people, they really aren't. They are just dangerous to my family and most likely not to you or anyone else. Casual contact with them is not healthy for my family, we cannot or should not provide them patience or charity, at least not any kinds that involve that casual contact.

It also caused me some internal reflection, am I possibly a wolf to someone else? Very possible, despite my efforts to be harmless... I do not share to condemn anyone, but this topic comes up here and I wanted to share some things I have learned.

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Alaris
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Re: On Wolves

Post by Alaris »

BackBlast wrote: June 30th, 2017, 6:39 pm Your opinion is noted.

What I am sharing here is not the result of casual efforts. I was given specific warnings in a dream that became a waking vision and all these things were present, including them giving me false prophecies, turning into wolves, etc. The Lord presented them as such, and His opinion matters to me more than yours. This is also why I tried to temper what it means to be a wolf. They are not evil people, they really aren't. They are just dangerous to my family and most likely not to you or anyone else. Casual contact with them is not healthy for my family, we cannot or should not provide them patience or charity, at least not any kinds that involve that casual contact.

It also caused me some internal reflection, am I possibly a wolf to someone else? Very possible, despite my efforts to be harmless... I do not share to condemn anyone, but this topic comes up here and I wanted to share some things I have learned.
I know what you mean, and can even reinforce what AI 2.0 is saying to a degree. Whenever something good is about to happen, there is always opposition first in my experience. Every single time I was blessed as a missionary to witness a baptism, there was always, always a strong opposition first and almost always by a close family member. Not everyone survived the fire, but isn't that the point? The opposition is a test to see if that soul is ready to stand the fire.
2 Nephi 32:14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.
With the above verse in mind, the opposition can be seen as a blessing.

That said, my own family has taken on the wolf role from time to time. My second wedding was the most spiritual experience of my life bar none. My own parents were providing ridiculous opposition the very day of my wedding, and they supported the marriage! It was almost comical, and even though I had enough awareness to know what was happening, it made me sad that the adversary was somehow able to use my own parents. They have their flaws, but they are good people.

There have been times where I have wondered if I played the wolf role unknowingly and try to keenly avoid such given my experience.
Last edited by Alaris on June 30th, 2017, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BackBlast
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Re: On Wolves

Post by BackBlast »

alaris wrote: June 30th, 2017, 6:48 pm That said, my own family has taken on the wolf roll from time to time. My second wedding was the most spiritual experience of my life bar none. My own parents were providing ridiculous opposition the very day of my wedding, and they supported the marriage! It was almost comical, and even though I had enough awareness to know what was happening, it made me sad that the adversary was somehow able to use my own parents. They have their flaws, but they are good people.

There have been times where I have wondered if I played the wolf role unknowingly and try to keenly avoid such given my experience.
Thanks, you reminded me of something else. I believe that this is very much a temporary state, that are a danger at the moment, but it will not remain so - it isn't permanent. Conditions and attitudes change and one day I hope to be able to welcome some that I currently hold away with open arms and a joyful countenance.

brianj
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Re: On Wolves

Post by brianj »

BackBlast wrote: June 27th, 2017, 11:05 am I just wanted to put forward something I have learned recently as the Lord has identified several wolves in my life to me.

Often, as a people, we want to say that the metaphorical wolf-in-sheep's-clothing can be identified by the vigilant because they are only in sheep's clothing to "the group". And that I do not have the same general blindness of this group.

I wish to provide an alternative to that narrative. The metaphorical wolf actually represents the people that you, individually, wish to associate with that will do you harm. Those that might do you harm that you believe you have identified are not included in this metaphor. You are already aware of them. You are cautious of them. If they are truly a wolf or not is another matter, but they don't look like sheep to you. The wolf in sheep's clothing, to you, looks like a sheep. The only method of identifying them is to be open to, and to be accepting of the guidance of the Lord.

As I said earlier, I have been shown who several of the wolves in my life are. And it surprised me who they are. People I have sought to have a relationship with. People who, for the most part, believe as I do. There is no vast doctrinal gulf or clear apostate direction to them. In fact, I harbor great hopes that many will be saved and that others will humble themselves from their current states and also be saved. Some, I speculate, are even well advanced on their way to attaining exaltation. That does not change the fact that they are, in a manner, a threat to me and mine, here and now, in this life. That I would have, if left blind, walked into dangerous paths instead of holding them at a careful distance.

They may not be - and probably are not - a threat to others. It isn't a universally applicable label. Once a wolf always a wolf to everyone and everything is probably more of an exception than the rule. Person A may do great harm to person B, but be a great aid and help to person C, D, E, and F. Person B listens and is warned, and avoids person A, and need not speak up against person A to C, D, E and F. Those relationships are healthy.

Which brings me to my last observation. Many of these wolves do not even intend to hurt you. May even say in their hearts, it is for their own good that I do this, I am trying to help them. In their blindness they do the harm, and this makes them look all the more like sheep.

I hope some may find these observations useful.
Thanks for sharing. I've tried to look for wolves in sheep's clothing, who are there to be a danger to the entire ward or stake, but haven't contemplated that people can be a wolf just to me. However, now that I look at it this way, I see plenty of wolves in my past and I'll be better about catching these threats in the future.

gardener4life
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Re: On Wolves

Post by gardener4life »

I don't find it conducive to healthy family interaction to call others 'wolves' because I disagree with their opinions. I also don't call their opinions 'false prophecies' and it isn't a good idea to alienate most of the extended family of your spouse if you can help it. Maybe you should practice patience and charity to keep the peace and if they are saying things that are wrong, politely ignore them.


So I thought I should speak upon this...

Um...part of the reason why people talk about wolves in sheep's clothing is to prevent other wolves causing another to get hurt. In above I apologize for bringing this up but if someone is bringing up that there is a wolf its not about their opinion and it's not about disagreeing with the wolf...its about not having more victims, mercy, and justice are involved.

I felt I should say this because i see often that in a family you can have 2 brothers...1 brother harms the other brother...that brother asks leadership to stop the hurt and injury from being prevented again...but to outsiders they accidentally often victimize the victim again by labeling them as part of the 'disagreement' or partly at fault. The perpetrator could have lashed out for any reason and the victim might have only have had something that the perpetrator covets. So also there will likely be future victims to the wolf, they just have to match a particular set of variables. People think there won't be other victims too, but base that on other family members not being victimized might just not have the right 'triggers' to cause an event.

If possible it would be nice to not alienate people, but a life time of experience observing people is that if you sit and do nothing a cannibalistic wolf like behavior will always increase if they see its profitable and there's no backlash from their own actions on others.

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AI2.0
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Re: On Wolves

Post by AI2.0 »

My comments in blue:
gardener4life wrote: July 21st, 2017, 1:48 am I don't find it conducive to healthy family interaction to call others 'wolves' because I disagree with their opinions. I also don't call their opinions 'false prophecies' and it isn't a good idea to alienate most of the extended family of your spouse if you can help it. Maybe you should practice patience and charity to keep the peace and if they are saying things that are wrong, politely ignore them.


So I thought I should speak upon this...

Um...part of the reason why people talk about wolves in sheep's clothing is to prevent other wolves causing another to get hurt. In above I apologize for bringing this up but if someone is bringing up that there is a wolf its not about their opinion and it's not about disagreeing with the wolf...its about not having more victims, mercy, and justice are involved.

I felt I should say this because i see often that in a family you can have 2 brothers...1 brother harms the other brother...that brother asks leadership to stop the hurt and injury from being prevented again..They go to 'leadership'? Why? I think in a normal functioning family, they would settle it within their own family--if unable to work it out between themselves, they would most likely go to parents or a trusted sibling..but to outsiders they accidentally often victimize the victim again by labeling them as part of the 'disagreement' or partly at fault.One very good reason to keep a disagreement within the family. I know a family who would call the Bishop when they had problems with their children to get him to 'lay down the law' in instances which should have been dealt with by parents. It was a dysfunctional family because of their inability to recognize that they were escalating normal family squabbles and getting others involved who shouldn't have needed to be dealing with this. The perpetrator could have lashed out for any reason and the victim might have only have had something that the perpetrator covets.'perpetrator' and ''victim' are often not that easy to determine. So also there will likely be future victims to the wolf, they just have to match a particular set of variables. People think there won't be other victims too, but base that on other family members not being victimized might just not have the right 'triggers' to cause an event. I'm afraid you lost me, this is too convoluted without more information.

If possible it would be nice to not alienate people, but a life time of experience observing people is that if you sit and do nothing a cannibalistic wolf like behavior will always increase if they see its profitable and there's no backlash from their own actions on others.
Maybe my inability to understand all this is that I grew up in a normal functioning family. I and my husband have created a normal family with no 'drama'. However, I do see others around me who seem to turn small problems into ongoing family dramas that are practically soap opera material--someone is always mad at someone else, or claims they tried to hurt them, and sometimes they cut off siblings or parents or can't seem to ever get along for very long. Frankly, it takes two to make drama and if one person doesn't like living that way, they can always do something in changing the way THEY interact. I also don't have anyone in my family or friends and my life that I'd call a 'cannibalistic wolf'. My family members are good people, they are never intentionally vicious or evil. If they were, I would still love them--but from afar. I'd try to limit my interaction with them, just as I've limited my contact with people I didn't feel were good to have around for varying reasons.

But first, a person who finds themselves struggling with toxic people, ought to look very carefully at themselves to make sure they are not actually stirring up trouble by their own interactions, because they unconsciously seek out drama and conflict because for various reasons, they thrive on it in their interpersonal relationships. In all honesty, I think searching around and trying to identify who is a 'wolf' among one's associates, family and friends, is a sign of problems in their own life--trust issues, resentment, anger, and frusrations of unmet needs. I'd say it's time to do some soul searching and work on rooting out unwanted qualities and behaviors within themselves. It really can be amazing to find that when we work on exercising our own 'demons' suddenly those around us become more 'angelic' as well.

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