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Alaris
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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CelestialAngel wrote: June 26th, 2017, 12:38 pm I am also a lot more in tune with nature and this earth now. My brother thinks I'm a total hippie. haha but I love nature.
Did you have any experiences that confirmed how important our treatment of others is?

DesertWonderer
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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What sight or knowledge that you received surprised you most?

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True
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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I loved hearing your experience! How is your health now?
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True
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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I'm thinking the reason you didn't see any degrees is because you were experiencing spirit paradise. Just a thought.

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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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CelestialAngel wrote: June 26th, 2017, 2:26 pm
DesertWonderer wrote: June 26th, 2017, 2:09 pm What sight or knowledge that you received surprised you most?
That the world of spirits is just like earth. Gardens, mountains, streams, grass. Only the flowers and grass are very bright. Imagine flourescent colors turned up to a million. Also I was surprised that we judge ourselves and put ourselves in the shadows mental state and no one forces us there. This surprised me because it gave me possibilities that even bad sinners can come out of the shadows. Also I still believe the church that there's Satan, but I didn't sense a hell like you imagine. I'm most surprised that there seemed to be one heaven and I didn't see people divided into degrees of heaven by obedience and levels of different spheres of heaven. Just by levels of knowledge and people in happiness or guilt. I believe the different degrees of glory are how much knowledge we have. People with college degrees are on a higher level than people in elementary school, but all in the same world. This is just based off what I experienced. I don't believe it's only a select few that get to be in God's presence for eternity. I believe it will only be a select few who will stay in the shadows and even they are still being ministered to, they just aren't paying attention or are avoiding the spiritual aid. These are the people in this life we need to help. Those that appear to be living in the shadows and guilt even while on this earth.

Also the thing that surprised me was how loved I felt on the other side and lack of guilt. I feel Mormons are way too judgmental and think way too much about punishment instead of love and forgiveness and hope, even for those that kill. Christian religion has some parts that are very man made, even a lot of scriptures is too harsh from the realities of the spirit world. This world and the people in this world focus way too much on the negative and sin someone should suffer for. This is so hypocritical and since I've come back I'm embarassed at how judgmental religious people are, even Mormons. I still follow the Mormon church as my religion, but God is no religion. All people from all religions are God's children and can return to Him. Mormons think only Mormons have a monopoly on the good parts of heaven and they are so prideful and so utterly wrong.
Most of this is not doctrinal and contrary to revealed scriptures and teachings of the LDS church and dangerous teachings.

For example we need to accept all revealed truth we cant decide on what level of truth we will accept.
Guilt is the outward manifestation of the Spirit of Christ and is one of the most essential part of the plan of salvation, one can't simply wish your sins away, as we are judged by the works done in the flesh and as the scriptures teach a time comes when we can no longer preform the works. Those in the telestrial kingdom will be as numerous as the stars in heaven and there are few that find the narrow road that leads to salvation.
Lehi's dream is an example of the big and spacious building filled with people mocking the very few that find the tree of life.

I could write a thousand pages on the problems with your post - but you know the truth and I would be wasting my time.

Spaced_Out
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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True wrote: June 26th, 2017, 7:33 pm I'm thinking the reason you didn't see any degrees is because you were experiencing spirit paradise. Just a thought.
The spirit world is separated into those that have receive and accepted baptism and those who have not. When visiting the spirit world it can be that you only experience the one half. Assignment to kingdoms of glory only comes after the resurrection and there will be many who will say we have done many works and miracles in His name but they will be denied access and separated as the goats from the sheep.

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Alaris
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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CelestialAngel wrote: June 26th, 2017, 1:28 pm Yes. I experienced that relationships with others is what matters most. Basically how many times you've taken the sacrament is meaningless if you don't have strong relationships with others. The worst thing is selfishness and pride. Loving others is what matters. Showing love for our neighbor will get you into the light part of heaven. We have to do works. We can't just be lazy and expect to make it. We're here on earth to learn to get along with others and bring others help. There was a section of shadows where sinners and those who are feeling guilt for their sins are and they refuse to look to the light because they feel unworthy. But the thing is these are the spirits in the shadows and God doesn't force them to be in the shadows. They feel guilt for their sins and haven't forgiven themselves. The worst person we treat in this world is ourselves. The missionary work that's going on on the other side is spirits in the light helping those in the darkness repent and forgive themselves and join the light. That's what spirit prison is. A mental state where you torment yourself with your own guilt and don't repent and forgive. God doesn't send anyone to the shadows. We judge our lives because we can't hide from anything we've done on the other side. It's all out there what we've done and we either can look to the light and feel peace or torment ourselves and stay in the shadows until someone convinces us to join the light part. When Jesus went to preach in prison like Peter taught and Joseph F Smith described in D&C 138, they were talking about spirits that are in the shadows tormented by guilt. We need to forgive others and forgive ourselves but mainly make peace with our souls and know that God is a loving God and not a one trying to send people to hell. Hell is a mental state and we send ourselves there.
I have studied a ton of near death experiences and this is one of those things that experiencers are often shocked at--at just how important it is the way we treat others. This is actually one of the reasons why I often try to herd the cats on this site that are so quick to invite the spirit of contention. Yeah chasing away the spirit is bad and is what the adversary wants so that no learning can be attained. The mistreatment of others through the spirit of contention is way, way worse. By their fruits ...

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Yahtzee
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:51 am
True wrote: June 26th, 2017, 7:33 pm I'm thinking the reason you didn't see any degrees is because you were experiencing spirit paradise. Just a thought.
The spirit world is separated into those that have receive and accepted baptism and those who have not. When visiting the spirit world it can be that you only experience the one half. Assignment to kingdoms of glory only comes after the resurrection and there will be many who will say we have done many works and miracles in His name but they will be denied access and separated as the goats from the sheep.
Wait, where is that revealed? The scriptures teach it is the righteous and wicked separated into paradise or prison. No mention of baptism. Not saying that ordinance isn't important, but I've never heard it taught you needed it to enter paradise.

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Robin Hood
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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CelestialAngel wrote: June 26th, 2017, 12:27 pm This was a very sacred experience for me so do not pm me asking for more info because there is a lot I am not permitted to say about what I experienced in the spirit world and there is a lot that was taken from my memory when the veil was put back on. I will share what I feel is important to me to share and hopefully someone else will find it important.

I used to weigh over 300 pounds and ate terribly. On June 16th 2013 at about 1AM I suffered cardiac arrest and had to be revived. I don't know how long I was actually dead for but I did experience the other side of the veil. I was greeted by and only saw 1 human spirit. My deceased grandpa who I had done all the temple work for. The main important thing that happened to me is after I was greeted by my grandpa I heard 3 distinct meows. I looked down and saw my 3 beloved cats that I had owned who had lived to be 20, 15, and 19 who I loved dearly. The one message that I can share about the eternities and spirit world is that our pets live on and are part of our eternal families, they just don't need temple work done for them because they are already perfect. I petted my cats and they purred and I felt the happiest I'd ever felt, and then immediately I was revived by the Parademics and spent some time in the ICU.

I did experience things about the plan of salvation and spirit world. know I am not scared of dying, I look forward to it very much, but I have to keep living until my mission is complete and I am called home. I'm not supposed to prematurely end my mission on this earth. The spirit world looks pretty much like this world only it's hard to describe. Just imagine this world is old black and white television and the spirit world is HD tv. It's hard to explain but I testify that our beloved pets are part of our eternal families and that heaven exists and that it is most wonderful from what I saw. But feel free to ask me about what I did talk about.

I'm sorry, but I'm very skeptical. Sounds like a dream to me.
One thing I find common-place in all of these so-called NDE's is that there are, apparently, lots of things they're "not permitted" to relate.
In other words, they need to control the flow of information in such a way as to not get caught out by a question they weren't expecting.
Julie Rowe does this a lot. So did "Spencer".
Last edited by Robin Hood on June 27th, 2017, 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Finrock
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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Thanks for sharing your experiences, CelestialAngel. I can confirm what you experienced about spirit prison, and how God is greater than the Mormon paradigm, that God is not a punitive God, and the importance of loving, forgiving, and being kind to ourselves and to those around us. I have my own witness from the Holy Spirit about these things and from my own interactions with God and from speaking with Him and He with me. So much of what Mormons believe about God and the gospel of Jesus Christ is false tradition, cultural, or just plain arrogance as you stated.

-Finrock

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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:51 am
True wrote: June 26th, 2017, 7:33 pm I'm thinking the reason you didn't see any degrees is because you were experiencing spirit paradise. Just a thought.
The spirit world is separated into those that have receive and accepted baptism and those who have not. When visiting the spirit world it can be that you only experience the one half. Assignment to kingdoms of glory only comes after the resurrection and there will be many who will say we have done many works and miracles in His name but they will be denied access and separated as the goats from the sheep.
How do you know this? Are you speaking from experience or otherwise?

-Finrock

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Alaris
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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Finrock wrote: June 27th, 2017, 10:02 am Thanks for sharing your experiences, CelestialAngel. I can confirm what you experienced about spirit prison, and how God is greater than the Mormon paradigm, that God is not a punitive God, and the importance of loving, forgiving, and being kind to ourselves and to those around us. I have my own witness from the Holy Spirit about these things and from my own interactions with God and from speaking with Him and He with me. So much of what Mormons believe about God and the gospel of Jesus Christ is false tradition, cultural, or just plain arrogance as you stated.

-Finrock
I will add my witness to Finrock's. Deja Vu. Coming from someone who has been forgiven of much I testify that the Lord's forgiveness is faster, more powerful, and more loving than the Mormon Paradigm would sometimes lead you to believe. Those who enforce the guilt status quo seem to be the same people who never do any wrong. Guilt does have its purpose but the fallible LDS culture has taken this way too far in my experience. The Lord wants to forgive us and He wants us to move on.
Luke 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:45 am Guilt is the outward manifestation of the Spirit of Christ and is one of the most essential part of the plan of salvation, one can't simply wish your sins away, as we are judged by the works done in the flesh and as the scriptures teach a time comes when we can no longer preform the works.
Many people in the Church today act and serve out of a sense of fear, guilt, shame, or even duty. They fear God's punishment, fear what others might think of them, or they feel guilty and shameful about something in their life. God wants us to be free from these feelings.

We can come to recognize, by applying the atoning blood of Jesus Christ in our lives, and accepting His grace and mercy, that "serving in the Church is [really just] a way of coming unto Christ. It is a way of expressing love to God. It expresses a continuing need for His power and gratitude for His divine help." We should really consider whether we are acting and serving in the Church from a sense of fear, guilt, shame, or if our actions and service are "a natural outgrowth of [our] reborn faith in Christ."

If you find that you are still acting out of fear, guilt, shame, or duty, then I invite you to consider that Jesus Christ offers us a better way. We can be free from these feelings by exercising faith in the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. We can be forgiven and we can be changed, mightily. Through the power of Jesus Christ we can truly be "born again" with a new heart, with new desires, and new motivations.

-Finrock

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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

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Finrock wrote: June 27th, 2017, 10:54 am
Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:45 am Guilt is the outward manifestation of the Spirit of Christ and is one of the most essential part of the plan of salvation, one can't simply wish your sins away, as we are judged by the works done in the flesh and as the scriptures teach a time comes when we can no longer preform the works.
Many people in the Church today act and serve out of a sense of fear, guilt, shame, or even duty. They fear God's punishment, fear what others might think of them, or they feel guilty and shameful about something in their life. God wants us to be free from these feelings.

We can come to recognize, by applying the atoning blood of Jesus Christ in our lives, and accepting His grace and mercy, that "serving in the Church is [really just] a way of coming unto Christ. It is a way of expressing love to God. It expresses a continuing need for His power and gratitude for His divine help." We should really consider whether we are acting and serving in the Church from a sense of fear, guilt, shame, or if our actions and service are "a natural outgrowth of [our] reborn faith in Christ."

If you find that you are still acting out of fear, guilt, shame, or duty, then I invite you to consider that Jesus Christ offers us a better way. We can be free from these feelings by exercising faith in the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. We can be forgiven and we can be changed, mightily. Through the power of Jesus Christ we can truly be "born again" with a new heart, with new desires, and new motivations.

-Finrock


Something tells me that wicked and sin laden Alma the younger did not have a lengthy process to where the church of God deemed him worthy to fully participate in its functions. (See below verses) He was healed in the instant he sought for Jesus and was changed and empowered to overcome and blessed to live and thrive in this healed state immediatley. How powerful his story and ecample was for those he encouraged similarly to be blessed...

When we give improper credence to the power of the flesh to overcome through a series of steps and process of time are we not minimizing the immediate efficacy of the atonement to "right here right now change us"? The Book of Mormon from start to finish shows this blessing occurring again and again and again in the very instance where the recipients show their faith in Jesus and desire to have the "wicked Spirit to be uprooted from their breast" / their fallen tabernacle.

Alma 22:
15 And it came to pass that after Aaron had expounded these things unto him, the king said: What shall I do that I may have this eternal life of which thou hast spoken? Yea, what shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his Spirit, that I may be filled with joy, that I may not be cast off at the last day? Behold, said he, I will give up all that I possess, yea, I will forsake my kingdom, that I may receive this great joy.

16 But Aaron said unto him: If thou desirest this thing, if thou wilt bow down before God, yea, if thou wilt repent of all thy sins, and will bow down before God, and call on his name in faith, believing that ye shall receive, then shalt thou receive the hope which thou desirest.

17 And it came to pass that when Aaron had said these words, the king did bow down before the Lord, upon his knees; yea, even he did prostrate himself upon the earth, and cried mightily..." (and the change of putting off the natural man becoming a saint through the atonement of Jesus / born of God was immediate for this previous wicked king)

Can you see the faith that would exist in the Church of God if there were a reveloution of rebirth receipeants from top to bottom in its holy confines showing forth and preaching such truth and examples?


"Our Lord told Nicodemus that “except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Of these words President Spencer W. Kimball said, “This is the simple total answer to the weightiest of all questions. … To gain eternal life there must be a rebirth, a transformation.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1958, p. 14.)
President McKay said that Christ called for “an entire revolution” of Nicodemus’s “inner man.” “His manner of thinking, feeling, and acting with reference to spiritual things would have to undergo a fundamental and permanent change." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1960, p. 26.) [1]

To think---- if example after example in our religious life through vibrant faith and belief in Jesus through repentance etc brought about this clear and beautiful immediate change in peoples lives would this not be an incredible spiritually electric bolster to the church and its members!?

Would this not give proper credence to the power of the atonement to change rather than giving credence to the power of the flesh in hoping and waiting and moving three steps forward to move too often 10 steps backwards in receiving the desired change!?

Is such vibrant life altering faith just held in reserve for the Book of Mormon Folk--- Or is it true what the Lord says "what I say unto one I say unto all" similarly to what Nephi said that "we are to liken all scriptures unto ourselves" ??

I proclaim that such blessings and immediate life-altering faith is meant for us too!


I'm not minimizing the significance of bringing forth works of righteousness and proper heed and diligence. Such efforts are and always will be the joyus fruits of belief. Blessed are those growing swelling motions with in our heart by planting the seed and feeding it :) I simply through Jesus triumphantly state that change through him does not need to be belabored and should not! this I understand and know through personal experience and through example after example in holy writ.
Alma 34:
17 Therefore may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance, that ye begin to call upon his holy name, that he would have mercy upon you;
18 Yea, cry unto him for mercy; for he is mighty to save.


And this is what it looks and feels like when we do :
Mosiah 4:
And now, it came to pass that when king Benjamin had made an end of speaking the words which had been delivered unto him by the angel of the Lord, that he cast his eyes round about on the multitude, and behold they had fallen to the earth, for the fear of the Lord had come upon them.
2 And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.
3 And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and they were filled with joy, having received a remission of their sins, and having peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come, according to the words which king Benjamin had spoken unto them. (Please also see mosiah 5 and Alma 5)

Please please find great hope and personal application through Alma's experience. :)

Alma 36:
And now, O my son Helaman, behold, thou art in thy youth, and therefore, I beseech of thee that thou wilt hear my words and learn of me; for I do know that whosoever shall put their trust in God shall be supported in their trials, and their troubles, and their afflictions, and shall be lifted up at the last day.
4 And I would not that ye think that I know of myself—not of the temporal but of the spiritual, not of the carnal mind but of God.
5 Now, behold, I say unto you, if I had not been born of God I should not have known these things; but God has, by the mouth of his holy angel, made these things known unto me, not of any worthiness of myself;
6 For I went about with the sons of Mosiah, seeking to destroy the church of God; but behold, God sent his holy angel to stop us by the way.
7 And behold, he spake unto us, as it were the voice of thunder, and the whole earth did tremble beneath our feet; and we all fell to the earth, for the fear of the Lord came upon us.
8 But behold, the voice said unto me: Arise. And I arose and stood up, and beheld the angel.
9 And he said unto me: If thou wilt of thyself be destroyed, seek no more to destroy the church of God.
10 And it came to pass that I fell to the earth; and it was for the space of three days and three nights that I could not open my mouth, neither had I the use of my limbs.
11 And the angel spake more things unto me, which were heard by my brethren, but I did not hear them; for when I heard the words—If thou wilt be destroyed of thyself, seek no more to destroy the church of God—I was struck with such great fear and amazement lest perhaps I should be destroyed, that I fell to the earth and I did hear no more.
12 But I was racked with eternal torment, for my soul was harrowed up to the greatest degree and racked with all my sins.
13 Yea, I did remember all my sins and iniquities, for which I was tormented with the pains of hell; yea, I saw that I had rebelled against my God, and that I had not kept his holy commandments.
14 Yea, and I had murdered many of his children, or rather led them away unto destruction; yea, and in fine so great had been my iniquities, that the very thought of coming into the presence of my God did rack my soul with inexpressible horror.
15 Oh, thought I, that I could be banished and become extinct both soul and body, that I might not be brought to stand in the presence of my God, to be judged of my deeds.
16 And now, for three days and for three nights was I racked, even with the pains of a damned soul.
17 And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.
18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.
19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.
20 And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain!
21 Yea, I say unto you, my son, that there could be nothing so exquisite and so bitter as were my pains. Yea, and again I say unto you, my son, that on the other hand, there can be nothing so exquisite and sweet as was my joy.
22 Yea, methought I saw, even as our father Lehi saw, God sitting upon his throne, surrounded with numberless concourses of angels, in the attitude of singing and praising their God; yea, and my soul did long to be there.
23 But behold, my limbs did receive their strength again, and I stood upon my feet, and did manifest unto the people that I had been born of God.
(24 Yea, and from that time even until now, I have labored without ceasing, that I might bring souls unto repentance; that I might bring them to taste of the exceeding joy of which I did taste; that they might also be born of God, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.(what an awe inspiring leader)


Edit: I do not envy the leaders of our church who bare the heavy responsibility to help this remarkable church move along down the desired successful path. They ever deserve our love and respect and fervent prayers that the Lords will manifests clearly for them. Also, just because I might not fully agree with some of the approaches with in our church does not mean that I do not sustain our leaders and strive to be a solution rather than a problem. I also acknowledge that I do not desire to have my perceptions / convictions of what proper solutions are to cause harm or damage to any one. In the end we should let the spirit and not steeped tradition confirm the rightness of our path and or make course corrections where we are wrong. Other wise put--- I pray to always be meek and courageous to where I can stay true to what is revealed to be right and change where it is revealed to me that my convictions are wrong. Love and great hope for all of us through Jesus. Jared


" When we begin to know how to come to Him, He begins to come to us. When we are ready to come to Him, He is ready to receive us" Joseph Smith (King Follet Discourse) Praise Gracious Father for the blueprint that is the Book if Mormon.
Last edited by diligently seeking on June 28th, 2017, 6:30 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Yahtzee
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Yahtzee »

Only you can know for sure if what you experienced was a dream or an NDE. I've never had an NDE, but I did have two dreams I consider visions. I know by the spirit that they were more than regular dreams. I've always felt constrained in sharing much about them though. So I understand you wanting to take it down. More often than not these things are for our own benefit and it is difficult, if not impossible, to put into words what you have learned. But I'm grateful for the reminder about the relationships we have in this life being so important. I fear I fall short far too often.

Finrock
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Finrock »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 27th, 2017, 12:01 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:45 am
CelestialAngel wrote: June 26th, 2017, 2:26 pm
DesertWonderer wrote: June 26th, 2017, 2:09 pm What sight or knowledge that you received surprised you most?
That the world of spirits is just like earth. Gardens, mountains, streams, grass. Only the flowers and grass are very bright. Imagine flourescent colors turned up to a million. Also I was surprised that we judge ourselves and put ourselves in the shadows mental state and no one forces us there. This surprised me because it gave me possibilities that even bad sinners can come out of the shadows. Also I still believe the church that there's Satan, but I didn't sense a hell like you imagine. I'm most surprised that there seemed to be one heaven and I didn't see people divided into degrees of heaven by obedience and levels of different spheres of heaven. Just by levels of knowledge and people in happiness or guilt. I believe the different degrees of glory are how much knowledge we have. People with college degrees are on a higher level than people in elementary school, but all in the same world. This is just based off what I experienced. I don't believe it's only a select few that get to be in God's presence for eternity. I believe it will only be a select few who will stay in the shadows and even they are still being ministered to, they just aren't paying attention or are avoiding the spiritual aid. These are the people in this life we need to help. Those that appear to be living in the shadows and guilt even while on this earth.

Also the thing that surprised me was how loved I felt on the other side and lack of guilt. I feel Mormons are way too judgmental and think way too much about punishment instead of love and forgiveness and hope, even for those that kill. Christian religion has some parts that are very man made, even a lot of scriptures is too harsh from the realities of the spirit world. This world and the people in this world focus way too much on the negative and sin someone should suffer for. This is so hypocritical and since I've come back I'm embarassed at how judgmental religious people are, even Mormons. I still follow the Mormon church as my religion, but God is no religion. All people from all religions are God's children and can return to Him. Mormons think only Mormons have a monopoly on the good parts of heaven and they are so prideful and so utterly wrong.
Most of this is not doctrinal and contrary to revealed scriptures and teachings of the LDS church and dangerous teachings.

For example we need to accept all revealed truth we cant decide on what level of truth we will accept.
Guilt is the outward manifestation of the Spirit of Christ and is one of the most essential part of the plan of salvation, one can't simply wish your sins away, as we are judged by the works done in the flesh and as the scriptures teach a time comes when we can no longer preform the works. Those in the telestrial kingdom will be as numerous as the stars in heaven and there are few that find the narrow road that leads to salvation.
Lehi's dream is an example of the big and spacious building filled with people mocking the very few that find the tree of life.

I could write a thousand pages on the problems with your post - but you know the truth and I would be wasting my time.
You bring up very good points. It's possible I am wrong. I hope no one bases their testimony off of anything I experienced because I told a Stake President what I experienced and he thinks it was my mind in cardiac arrest having a dream. I hope no one changes their views over anything I wrote. Do you think I should take down my post?
I thought it was beautiful. Thank you, again, for sharing.

-Finrock

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Alaris
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Alaris »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 27th, 2017, 12:01 pm You bring up very good points. It's possible I am wrong. I hope no one bases their testimony off of anything I experienced because I told a Stake President what I experienced and he thinks it was my mind in cardiac arrest having a dream. I hope no one changes their views over anything I wrote. Do you think I should take down my post?
Don't let those addicted to negativity drag you in. Misery loves company.

I benefited from your post and thoughts tremendously. I have read many NDE books. It is very common for people to report bright and vibrant colors - colors that don't exist in our spectrum. Try wrapping your brain around that. There are simply too many NDE experiencers out there to say they are all attention seekers. The irony is I first asked you about the importance at how we treat others deliberately to help those antagonism addicts realize that it is far more important to treat each other "right" than it is to be "right." Well treating each other right and with love IS being right.

Relevant in more ways than one here:
Alma 3:26 And in one year were thousands and tens of thousands of souls sent to the eternal world, that they might reap their rewards according to their works, whether they were good or whether they were bad, to reap eternal happiness or eternal misery, according to the spirit which they listed to obey, whether it be a good spirit or a bad one.
27 For every man receiveth wages of him whom he listeth to obey, and this according to the words of the spirit of prophecy; therefore let it be according to the truth. And thus endeth the fifth year of the reign of the judges.
Much like what you saw, those who list to obey a contentious evil spirits will not magically stop their addiction when they cross over. Those who learn and live the plan of happiness here will take their happiness with them.

Spirit Prison: :| :-s 8-| :ymsick: [-( @-)

Spirit Paradise: :) :D :ymhug: :p O:-) :ymparty:

I almost put the clown in paradise - *whew*

Matchmaker
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Matchmaker »

Yahtzee wrote: June 27th, 2017, 9:23 am
Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:51 am
True wrote: June 26th, 2017, 7:33 pm I'm thinking the reason you didn't see any degrees is because you were experiencing spirit paradise. Just a thought.
The spirit world is separated into those that have receive and accepted baptism and those who have not. When visiting the spirit world it can be that you only experience the one half. Assignment to kingdoms of glory only comes after the resurrection and there will be many who will say we have done many works and miracles in His name but they will be denied access and separated as the goats from the sheep.
Wait, where is that revealed? The scriptures teach it is the righteous and wicked separated into paradise or prison. No mention of baptism. Not saying that ordinance isn't important, but I've never heard it taught you needed it to enter paradise.
I read somewhere that this is one of the reasons for the great urgency in doing temple work for the dead now is so that our relatives can progress from spirit prison to paradise as soon as they repent and accept the work. They need to accept the baptism done by proxy here to get out of spirit prison there. I guess I had better hunt down where I read it.

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David13
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by David13 »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 27th, 2017, 12:48 pm Has anyone else on this board experienced a NDE? What did you experience?

I'm glad you asked.
I ride a motorcycle and I am just moving out of Los Angeles.
Thus I have had NDEs on a daily basis when I have been riding here.
I certainly also have dreams, thoughts, visions, ideas and other mental images.
It's quite a natural, normal human experience.
No special meaning to it. Other than, maybe, SLOW DOWN!
dc

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Yahtzee
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Yahtzee »

Matchmaker wrote: June 27th, 2017, 7:33 pm
Yahtzee wrote: June 27th, 2017, 9:23 am
Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:51 am
True wrote: June 26th, 2017, 7:33 pm I'm thinking the reason you didn't see any degrees is because you were experiencing spirit paradise. Just a thought.
The spirit world is separated into those that have receive and accepted baptism and those who have not. When visiting the spirit world it can be that you only experience the one half. Assignment to kingdoms of glory only comes after the resurrection and there will be many who will say we have done many works and miracles in His name but they will be denied access and separated as the goats from the sheep.
Wait, where is that revealed? The scriptures teach it is the righteous and wicked separated into paradise or prison. No mention of baptism. Not saying that ordinance isn't important, but I've never heard it taught you needed it to enter paradise.
I read somewhere that this is one of the reasons for the great urgency in doing temple work for the dead now is so that our relatives can progress from spirit prison to paradise as soon as they repent and accept the work. They need to accept the baptism done by proxy here to get out of spirit prison there. I guess I had better hunt down where I read it.
I'd be interested to see it. I just have a hard time believing Mother Theresa is in spirit prison because she wasn't baptized by the proper authority (yet). Maybe you're thinking of the final judgement? D&C specifically states baptism is required for the Celestial Kingdom and it implies it is necessary for the Terrestrial, but Alma 40 says simply there is happiness for the righteous and misery for the wicked between death and resurrection.

Spaced_Out
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Spaced_Out »

Finrock wrote: June 27th, 2017, 10:54 am
Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:45 am Guilt is the outward manifestation of the Spirit of Christ and is one of the most essential part of the plan of salvation, one can't simply wish your sins away, as we are judged by the works done in the flesh and as the scriptures teach a time comes when we can no longer preform the works.
Many people in the Church today act and serve out of a sense of fear, guilt, shame, or even duty. They fear God's punishment, fear what others might think of them, or they feel guilty and shameful about something in their life. God wants us to be free from these feelings.

We can come to recognize, by applying the atoning blood of Jesus Christ in our lives, and accepting His grace and mercy, that "serving in the Church is [really just] a way of coming unto Christ. It is a way of expressing love to God. It expresses a continuing need for His power and gratitude for His divine help." We should really consider whether we are acting and serving in the Church from a sense of fear, guilt, shame, or if our actions and service are "a natural outgrowth of [our] reborn faith in Christ."

If you find that you are still acting out of fear, guilt, shame, or duty, then I invite you to consider that Jesus Christ offers us a better way. We can be free from these feelings by exercising faith in the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. We can be forgiven and we can be changed, mightily. Through the power of Jesus Christ we can truly be "born again" with a new heart, with new desires, and new motivations.

-Finrock
Eccl. 12:13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

Finrock
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Finrock »

Spaced_Out wrote: June 28th, 2017, 1:45 am
Finrock wrote: June 27th, 2017, 10:54 am
Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:45 am Guilt is the outward manifestation of the Spirit of Christ and is one of the most essential part of the plan of salvation, one can't simply wish your sins away, as we are judged by the works done in the flesh and as the scriptures teach a time comes when we can no longer preform the works.
Many people in the Church today act and serve out of a sense of fear, guilt, shame, or even duty. They fear God's punishment, fear what others might think of them, or they feel guilty and shameful about something in their life. God wants us to be free from these feelings.

We can come to recognize, by applying the atoning blood of Jesus Christ in our lives, and accepting His grace and mercy, that "serving in the Church is [really just] a way of coming unto Christ. It is a way of expressing love to God. It expresses a continuing need for His power and gratitude for His divine help." We should really consider whether we are acting and serving in the Church from a sense of fear, guilt, shame, or if our actions and service are "a natural outgrowth of [our] reborn faith in Christ."

If you find that you are still acting out of fear, guilt, shame, or duty, then I invite you to consider that Jesus Christ offers us a better way. We can be free from these feelings by exercising faith in the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. We can be forgiven and we can be changed, mightily. Through the power of Jesus Christ we can truly be "born again" with a new heart, with new desires, and new motivations.

-Finrock
Eccl. 12:13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
When the scriptures say, "fear God" it means "to have a reverential awe of" God.

See 3 Nephi 12 for the commandments we are told to keep.
3 Yea, blessed are the poor in spirit who come unto me, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 And again, blessed are all they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.

5 And blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

6 And blessed are all they who do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit will be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost, becoming new creatures, born again.

-Finrock

Spaced_Out
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Posts: 1795

Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Spaced_Out »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 27th, 2017, 12:01 pm You bring up very good points. It's possible I am wrong. I hope no one bases their testimony off of anything I experienced because I told a Stake President what I experienced and he thinks it was my mind in cardiac arrest having a dream. I hope no one changes their views over anything I wrote. Do you think I should take down my post?
There is a lot of weird doctrines taught on this site, there are also many anit-Mormons who post things purposefully to create contention and mischief. I occasional get involved and stir things up a bit.
I have no issues with people posting dreams or NDE, we are all at different levels of understanding of the gospel and the spirit or those from the spirit world are somewhat limited to what they can teach us depending on our knowledge and spirituality. If after your NDE/Dream you felt more inspired to live righteously and you made changes in your life - then I say no doubt it is of God. Satan's purpose is to deceive and destroy.

Having dreams and visions is a gift of the spirit and why are the gifts of the Spirit given is to benefit all the members... so dreams and visions should be shared.

Spaced_Out
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Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Spaced_Out »

Finrock wrote: June 28th, 2017, 1:52 am
Spaced_Out wrote: June 28th, 2017, 1:45 am
Eccl. 12:13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
When the scriptures say, "fear God" it means "to have a reverential awe of" God.
See 3 Nephi 12 for the commandments we are told to keep.
3 Yea, blessed are the poor in spirit who come unto me, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 And again, blessed are all they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 And blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 And blessed are all they who do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit will be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost, becoming new creatures, born again.

-Finrock
We have had this discussion before and there is still a disconnect in understanding. No point in having it again, it is off the topic of this thread.

Spaced_Out
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Posts: 1795

Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: June 27th, 2017, 7:02 pm
CelestialAngel wrote: June 27th, 2017, 12:01 pm You bring up very good points. It's possible I am wrong. I hope no one bases their testimony off of anything I experienced because I told a Stake President what I experienced and he thinks it was my mind in cardiac arrest having a dream. I hope no one changes their views over anything I wrote. Do you think I should take down my post?
Don't let those addicted to negativity drag you in. Misery loves company.

I benefited from your post and thoughts tremendously. I have read many NDE books. It is very common for people to report bright and vibrant colors - colors that don't exist in our spectrum. Try wrapping your brain around that. There are simply too many NDE experiencers out there to say they are all attention seekers. The irony is I first asked you about the importance at how we treat others deliberately to help those antagonism addicts realize that it is far more important to treat each other "right" than it is to be "right." Well treating each other right and with love IS being right.

Relevant in more ways than one here:
Alma 3:26 And in one year were thousands and tens of thousands of souls sent to the eternal world, that they might reap their rewards according to their works, whether they were good or whether they were bad, to reap eternal happiness or eternal misery, according to the spirit which they listed to obey, whether it be a good spirit or a bad one.
27 For every man receiveth wages of him whom he listeth to obey, and this according to the words of the spirit of prophecy; therefore let it be according to the truth. And thus endeth the fifth year of the reign of the judges.
Much like what you saw, those who list to obey a contentious evil spirits will not magically stop their addiction when they cross over. Those who learn and live the plan of happiness here will take their happiness with them.

Spirit Prison: :| :-s 8-| :ymsick: [-( @-)

Spirit Paradise: :) :D :ymhug: :p O:-) :ymparty:

I almost put the clown in paradise - *whew*
Political correctness and all the rainbow nonsense about love does not cut it for me. You have to deal with the wolf in sheep clothing, and correcting false doctrine is loving a person. Yes love the sinner and hate the sin, but on an open forum we discuss issues of doctrine and principles of eternity - if one thinks your ideas are misguided they have the right to voice opinion. Free speech and love works both ways, being easily offended is not love but conceit and pride and arrogance.

The state of wicked spirits is described in Alma 40:13–14 and Mosiah 2:38. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers” (History of the Church, 5:425).
Last edited by Spaced_Out on June 28th, 2017, 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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