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brianj
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by brianj »

First, and this may just be how you word things, we shouldn't worry about anything. We all do, this is human nature, but it is also an opposition to faith.

On the subject of polygamy, the most honest answer is that we just plain don't know. I believe that polygamy will return before the Second Coming, fulfilling the prophecy of seven women clinging to one man, that it will be practiced through the Millennium, and that it is the order of the Celestial Kingdom. I can point to scripture, statements by modern prophets, and the fact that in today's system men can be sealed to multiple women in support of my belief. Additionally, and this is pure speculation on my part and from others, I believe that if the church had not been forced to end polygamy under the threat of being legally disbanded and having properties seized by the government, polygamy would still be practiced today.

But I know people who, like you, believe that polygamy is restricted to mortality only and can cite scripture or general authorities in support of your position.

The only thing that we can really do is to hope and be faithful. You can hope that polygamy is not the order of the Celestial Kingdom and that it doesn't return before or during the Millennium. I will hope that if it returns, and if I am called into that order, I will have the love and faith to accept and submit to whatever Heavenly Father sees fit to put me through. And if it returns but I am not called to that order, I will hope that I have the faith to accept that it's not the Lord's will for me and not any evidence of personal unworthiness.

MMbelieve
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by MMbelieve »

[quote=CelestialAngel post_id=790290 time=1498372136 user_id=10476]
I have a belief that it may come back but won't be required for everyone. I believe I will have a happy monogamous Celestial Marriage like my Patriarchal Blessing states and I can have the same worlds without end and continuation of the seeds blessing that a polygamous marriage would receive. My Patriarchal Blessing makes it blatantly obvious I will only have 1 companion through eternity and I believe my PB is inspired.
[/quote]

Interesting your blessing says that. I can assume you are male then right?

Yes, those blessings are inspired.

MMbelieve
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by MMbelieve »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 25th, 2017, 12:36 pm Yes MM I'm male and ya it's interesting my blessing says what it says but at least I have clarity what my eternal matrimony will be like. Hopefully I'll find a girl that will be happy knowing I'm devoting myself to her and only her forever.
I wish all men would devote. The idea of polygamy unfortunately gives some men a less whole hearted devotion under a presumed belief that they will just have more and more women to themselves. Yes, the love may be there for all to some degree or another but it's not the same as having a deep intimacy with your one and only. No dividing love and time between "trying" to make lots happy.

I'm sure you will find a woman very happy with your devotion.

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inho
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by inho »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 24th, 2017, 10:50 pm So do people living today ever have to worry about it
I think people today worry about because it is not entirely gone. A man can be sealed to more than one women, as long as he has only one living wife.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by Robin Hood »

Polygamy won't be back unless men disobey God and seek their own counsel.

Matchmaker
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by Matchmaker »

I think one of the ways that polygamy could possibly return is by the Church no longer excommunicating those who are already living it. I think the State of Utah has already stopped arresting and prosecuting those who are living it now, as long as it is consensual and there are no child brides involved. I heard somewhere that the Church currently does not excommunicate women who live it because they only have 1 spouse but that the men are the ones who get excommunicated. Does anyone know if that is true?

brianj
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by brianj »

MMbelieve wrote: June 25th, 2017, 12:51 pm I wish all men would devote. The idea of polygamy unfortunately gives some men a less whole hearted devotion under a presumed belief that they will just have more and more women to themselves. Yes, the love may be there for all to some degree or another but it's not the same as having a deep intimacy with your one and only. No dividing love and time between "trying" to make lots happy.
I think the guys you describe will be sorely disappointed. I do believe polygamy will return, as I said, but I also believe that the only men who will be called to participate will be the ones who love their one wife so much that they don't want to participate.

MMbelieve
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by MMbelieve »

brianj wrote: June 30th, 2017, 7:03 pm
MMbelieve wrote: June 25th, 2017, 12:51 pm I wish all men would devote. The idea of polygamy unfortunately gives some men a less whole hearted devotion under a presumed belief that they will just have more and more women to themselves. Yes, the love may be there for all to some degree or another but it's not the same as having a deep intimacy with your one and only. No dividing love and time between "trying" to make lots happy.
I think the guys you describe will be sorely disappointed. I do believe polygamy will return, as I said, but I also believe that the only men who will be called to participate will be the ones who love their one wife so much that they don't want to participate.
That thought has come to my mind as well. That those who want it will be found unworthy and those that don't want it will be the ones asked to do it.

I really don't think this will happen though. There is more to it and when you factor that in, it just begins to feel like a game to me and don't feel right. But, that is my opinion.
Men have their agency just as much as women do. If a man doesn't want to do it, he won't have to. To say otherwise, puts man in a position that takes away his agency and places him in a higher standard than woman because of the priesthood. He still has his choice the same as a woman does. She chooses who she wants as an eternal companion, and so does he. Neither will be forced.

If there is a place for polygamy again on earth, God wouldn't force a loving couple to do accept it if they don't want to. A person can learn and grow without creating a rift with their eternal companion, polygamy isint needed to "teach" us anything we can't learn already.

brianj
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by brianj »

MMbelieve wrote: June 30th, 2017, 7:12 pm Men have their agency just as much as women do. If a man doesn't want to do it, he won't have to. To say otherwise, puts man in a position that takes away his agency and places him in a higher standard than woman because of the priesthood. He still has his choice the same as a woman does. She chooses who she wants as an eternal companion, and so does he. Neither will be forced.

If there is a place for polygamy again on earth, God wouldn't force a loving couple to do accept it if they don't want to. A person can learn and grow without creating a rift with their eternal companion, polygamy isint needed to "teach" us anything we can't learn already.
I'm going to challenge this a little bit. I have covenanted to do or sacrifice anything for Heavenly Father and this church. But with what I've been going through lately a big part of me really wants to violate the law of chastity. If I don't want to obey the law of chastity I still have to because of the covenants I have made. If someone is called to participate in this order of marriage and they refuse, they have the right to do so, but they will be refusing to accept an inspired calling and will have to accept the consequences of doing so.

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brlenox
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by brlenox »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 24th, 2017, 10:50 pm We talk a lot about polygamy but the 1890 Manifesto ended it. So do people living today ever have to worry about it or do you think we are done with it and won t affect our eternity in this world or the millennium. Why or why Not? I think it's over and done with for new marriages.
Julie Rowe said it would be September 23 that it would be announced and that subsequent to the announcement would come the great earthquake in response. :ymsmug:
Last edited by brlenox on June 30th, 2017, 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MMbelieve
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by MMbelieve »

brianj wrote: June 30th, 2017, 8:51 pm
MMbelieve wrote: June 30th, 2017, 7:12 pm Men have their agency just as much as women do. If a man doesn't want to do it, he won't have to. To say otherwise, puts man in a position that takes away his agency and places him in a higher standard than woman because of the priesthood. He still has his choice the same as a woman does. She chooses who she wants as an eternal companion, and so does he. Neither will be forced.

If there is a place for polygamy again on earth, God wouldn't force a loving couple to do accept it if they don't want to. A person can learn and grow without creating a rift with their eternal companion, polygamy isint needed to "teach" us anything we can't learn already.
I'm going to challenge this a little bit. I have covenanted to do or sacrifice anything for Heavenly Father and this church. But with what I've been going through lately a big part of me really wants to violate the law of chastity. If I don't want to obey the law of chastity I still have to because of the covenants I have made. If someone is called to participate in this order of marriage and they refuse, they have the right to do so, but they will be refusing to accept an inspired calling and will have to accept the consequences of doing so.
Okay. Let me ask you why one man may be asked to participate in this and not another of the same worthiness and righteousness? I'm thinking of the eternal aspect...are there different "Gods"? Is there a reason two couples worthy and prepared for godhood would have different prerequisites? BY even said there will be men there who have only one wife. So all we NEED is one an and one woman. Despite all his pro polygamy, even he admits that one woman is all that is needed to become Godhood.

If a man AND woman, viewed as a couple, decide they don't want polygamy, does it make them unworthy despite being worthy?

Is polygamy the final worthiness check box? I have zero information, instruction, or understanding that this will ever happen.

Do you honestly believe that a man is the one who makes the ETERNAL decesion for himself and wife? The man accepts and thus the woman HAS to or she is destroyed?

Do you believe a man HAS to accept or he will be destroyed?

If you said yes, then why is polygamy worth more than a soul who has already sacrificed everything and given his life to the Lord and become a true disciple worthy of the kingdom?

God says he has to have another wife or he's all of a sudden unworthy and destroyed or cast out, but if he accepts then he risks hurting or burdening his true love and putting her in a sacrificial position?

I know that's alot of questions, I certainly don't expect you to answer them all. Just posting my thoughts

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brlenox
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by brlenox »

MMbelieve wrote: July 1st, 2017, 12:15 am
brianj wrote: June 30th, 2017, 8:51 pm
MMbelieve wrote: June 30th, 2017, 7:12 pm Men have their agency just as much as women do. If a man doesn't want to do it, he won't have to. To say otherwise, puts man in a position that takes away his agency and places him in a higher standard than woman because of the priesthood. He still has his choice the same as a woman does. She chooses who she wants as an eternal companion, and so does he. Neither will be forced.

If there is a place for polygamy again on earth, God wouldn't force a loving couple to do accept it if they don't want to. A person can learn and grow without creating a rift with their eternal companion, polygamy isint needed to "teach" us anything we can't learn already.
I'm going to challenge this a little bit. I have covenanted to do or sacrifice anything for Heavenly Father and this church. But with what I've been going through lately a big part of me really wants to violate the law of chastity. If I don't want to obey the law of chastity I still have to because of the covenants I have made. If someone is called to participate in this order of marriage and they refuse, they have the right to do so, but they will be refusing to accept an inspired calling and will have to accept the consequences of doing so.
Okay. Let me ask you why one man may be asked to participate in this and not another of the same worthiness and righteousness? I'm thinking of the eternal aspect...are there different "Gods"? Is there a reason two couples worthy and prepared for godhood would have different prerequisites? BY even said there will be men there who have only one wife. So all we NEED is one an and one woman. Despite all his pro polygamy, even he admits that one woman is all that is needed to become Godhood.

If a man AND woman, viewed as a couple, decide they don't want polygamy, does it make them unworthy despite being worthy?

Is polygamy the final worthiness check box? I have zero information, instruction, or understanding that this will ever happen.

Do you honestly believe that a man is the one who makes the ETERNAL decesion for himself and wife? The man accepts and thus the woman HAS to or she is destroyed?

Do you believe a man HAS to accept or he will be destroyed?

If you said yes, then why is polygamy worth more than a soul who has already sacrificed everything and given his life to the Lord and become a true disciple worthy of the kingdom?

God says he has to have another wife or he's all of a sudden unworthy and destroyed or cast out, but if he accepts then he risks hurting or burdening his true love and putting her in a sacrificial position?

I know that's alot of questions, I certainly don't expect you to answer them all. Just posting my thoughts
Most of the answers to your questions can be deduced from these three quotes. The first one you reference - this is the actual quote, It is not as limiting as you are hoping. Also we have to accept that Brigham knows what he has said in the past and thus is not conflicting with himself but may be saying parts of the puzzle. Consider upon these:
President Young said there would be men saved in the Celestial Kingdom of God with one wife with Many wives & with No wife at all.( Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, 9 vols., ed., Scott G. Kenny (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1985), 6:527 (Journal Entry dated 12 February 1870).
It is the word of the Lord, and I wish to say to you, and all the world, that if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which Abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at least in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which Abraham has obtained. This is as true as that God lives. You who wish that there were no such thing in existence, if you have in your hearts to say: "We will pass along in the Church without obeying or submitting to it in our faith or believing this order, because, for aught that we know, this community may be broken up yet, and we may have lucrative offices offered to us; we will not, therefore, be polygamists lest we should fail in obtaining some earthly honor, character and office, etc,"—the man that has that in his heart, and will continue to persist in pursuing that policy, will come short of dwelling in the presence of the Father and the Son, in celestial glory. The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them.(Young, Brigham, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 269, August 19, 1866).
Some people have supposed that the doctrine of plural marriage was a sort of superfluity, or non-essential, to the salvation or exaltation of mankind. In other words, some of the Saints have said, and believe, that a man with one wife, sealed to him by the authority of the Priesthood for time and eternity, will receive an exaltation as great and glorious, if he is faithful, as he possibly could with more than one. I want here to enter my solemn protest against this idea, for I know it is false. There is no blessing promised except upon conditions, and no blessing can be obtained by mankind except by faithful compliance with the conditions, or law, upon which the same is promised. The marriage of one woman to a man for time and eternity by the sealing power, according to the will of God, is a fulfillment of the celestial law of marriage in part--and is good so far as it goes--and so far as a man abides these conditions of the law, he will receive his reward therefor, and this reward, or blessing, he could not obtain on any other grounds or conditions. But this is only the beginning of the law, not the whole of it. Therefore, whoever has imagined that he could obtain the fullness of the blessings pertaining to this celestial law, by complying with only a portion of its conditions, has deceived himself. He cannot do it. When that principle was revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith ... [common background on Joseph Smith, skipped here] ... he did not falter, although it was not until an angel of God, with a drawn sword, stood before him; and commanded that he should enter into the practice of that principle, or he should be utterly destroyed, or rejected, that he moved forward to reveal and establish that doctrine. Journal of Discourses, Vol.20, p.28 - p.29, Joseph F. Smith, July 7, 1878

Dave62
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by Dave62 »

Well, we know from the Bible that there will not be any marrying or giving in marriage in the Kingdom of Heaven. So, all unions must be contracted and finalised before the final judgement. We know from the Book of Mormon that the rationale for polygamy is to raise a lot of children. We also know from the Book of Mormon that, unless God commands His children to engage in polygamy, it is breaking the law of chastity.

So this gives us a set of scriptural parameters for the practice within which it might be reintroduced. My personal opinion is that is would be highly unlikely.

dafty
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by dafty »

Dave62 wrote: July 1st, 2017, 2:58 am Well, we know from the Bible that there will not be any marrying or giving in marriage in the Kingdom of Heaven. So, all unions must be contracted and finalised before the final judgement. We know from the Book of Mormon that the rationale for polygamy is to raise a lot of children. We also know from the Book of Mormon that, unless God commands His children to engage in polygamy, it is breaking the law of chastity.

So this gives us a set of scriptural parameters for the practice within which it might be reintroduced. My personal opinion is that is would be highly unlikely.
So what about Jacobs (the partiarch) and other holy mens wives? are they going to be taken from them?

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gclayjr
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by gclayjr »

The math has always puzzled me. First, I do believe that if there is something that happens where there are not enough men, then the Lord, may bring back plural marriage. Second, why can't there be plural marriage, and most men just happen to be married to just 1 wife? Actually, I believe that is exactly what happened in the pioneer days.

The number of men and women, both born, and living to adult hood, varies little from a 50% 50% ratio. Even while women may join the church and generally be more righteous than men, it is no where near even 2 to 1!

One of the reasons that those societies living a satanic Polygamy, are such hell holes, is that it creates a terribly abusive structure. Only a few men can have those harems (interestingly, the word harem means forbidden), and those who are not rich enough or powerful enough to rate a harem, have no companions , except prostitutes. The women in become property or whores, and have little control over their very pathetic lives.

While I believe that there will be plural marriage in the Celestial kingdom, I don't think that that means that very many will actually be sealed to more than 1 woman. Those of you who do believe that the true Celestial life is a polygamous one, please explain the math to me.



Regards,

George Clay

Sunain
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by Sunain »

There are very few temple worthy female members of the church in my area of Canada. I'm still not married, so I definitely don't see polygamy returning.

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brlenox
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by brlenox »

Dave62 wrote: July 1st, 2017, 2:58 am Well, we know from the Bible that there will not be any marrying or giving in marriage in the Kingdom of Heaven. So, all unions must be contracted and finalised before the final judgement. We know from the Book of Mormon that the rationale for polygamy is to raise a lot of children. We also know from the Book of Mormon that, unless God commands His children to engage in polygamy, it is breaking the law of chastity.

So this gives us a set of scriptural parameters for the practice within which it might be reintroduced. My personal opinion is that is would be highly unlikely.
We need to examine the scripture more closely, as it is not saying what you anticipate:
Matthew 22:25-30

25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27 And last of all the woman died also.

28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Note this is a very specific scenario of a women being married to 7 different men. It is actually concerning a Jewish practice called Leverite marriage or yibbum. We gauge from the multiple nature of her husbands, and the lack of ordinances in the time in which they lived, that these are marriages for time only in this life. When these people die, based on the nature of the scenario they have presented, they will resurrect into the telestial kingdom or perhaps the terrestrial kingdom.

Consider these verses from Doctrine and Covenants 132:
Doctrine and Covenants 132:15-16

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
As we all know, there is no marriage in the lower kingdoms which are comprised of angels. As Christ says in Matthew, angels do not get get married.
Last edited by brlenox on July 1st, 2017, 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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brlenox
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by brlenox »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 25th, 2017, 12:28 am I have a belief that it may come back but won't be required for everyone. I believe I will have a happy monogamous Celestial Marriage like my Patriarchal Blessing states and I can have the same worlds without end and continuation of the seeds blessing that a polygamous marriage would receive. My Patriarchal Blessing makes it blatantly obvious I will only have 1 companion through eternity and I believe my PB is inspired.
Of course, having never read your blessing, we can only minimally discuss based on your description of its contents, but I am hard pressed to think it would interpret as you have interpreted. Is there any possibility that there are conditions implied, or words used, with meanings broader than might at first be considered?

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brlenox
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by brlenox »

CelestialAngel wrote: July 1st, 2017, 1:51 pm
brlenox wrote: July 1st, 2017, 9:32 am
CelestialAngel wrote: June 25th, 2017, 12:28 am I have a belief that it may come back but won't be required for everyone. I believe I will have a happy monogamous Celestial Marriage like my Patriarchal Blessing states and I can have the same worlds without end and continuation of the seeds blessing that a polygamous marriage would receive. My Patriarchal Blessing makes it blatantly obvious I will only have 1 companion through eternity and I believe my PB is inspired.
Of course, having never read your blessing, we can only minimally discuss based on your description of its contents, but I am hard pressed to think it would interpret as you have interpreted. Is there any possibility that there are conditions implied, or words used, with meanings broader than might at first be considered?

Alright I'll share the section and you interpret whether you think it means only 1 girl for me:

"You are blessed that you will find ONE of Heavenly Father's choice daughters whom you will take to one of the great temples here upon this earth and be sealed together for time and all eternity."

It also says I will observe the golden rule which is to treat my wife like I'd like to be treated. I wouldn't want my wife marrying other guys even if I wanted to be sealed to other girls for eternity. So what can you conclude from what I wrote about my patriarchal blessing say I'll be monogamous? But then again mine ends by saying I'll come forth in the Morning of the First Resurrection with "a renewed sense of purpose and be able to accomplish things I wasn't able to accomplish during my earth life." Who knows what that means or if it means being sealed to additional people because I don't know what I won't be able to accomplish.
While you have added the emphasis of ONE in bold caps, one wonders did the Patriarch raise his voice in forbidding emphasis while declaring loudly ONE!!! of Heavenly Fathers choice daughters...(Emphasis mine for hyperbolic effect.) Probably not and that emphasis is simply your expectation or preference for interpretation. If we keep in mind that a patriarchal blessing is primarily for direction in this life to the end of mortality seldom is it going to fill in details for the hereafter. The fact that yours gives you something to think about in terms of accomplishing things after your resurrection, throws the doors wide open for possibilities. Does it mean you will take other wives then? Maybe, maybe not. In other words there is not sufficient indication here just from the words of your blessings. You cannot really say it says no more, nor can we say it does not say 10 more.

Neither, however, does it limit you relative to things in this life. My blessing says essentially the same thing but that does not mean that my wife is not going to die before me and that I am not going to take a second wife nor does it affirm that I will die before her and she might take a second husband for time. It really is very open ended for both of us. However, I would never wish upon her to be alone for the remaining 20 years of her life. I would want her to have the happiness of association with a person she loved throughout this life.

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Arenera
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by Arenera »

CelestialAngel wrote: July 1st, 2017, 9:16 am I mainly made this thread because Russell M Nelson and Dallin H Oaks are sealed to 2 women and I wonder the power of their 2nd sealing. I know several LDS women and many non LDS women who said they would be ok living polygamy and would welcome and love sister wives. There are a lot of non member women in today's world who are ok sharing a man.
Yes. Many children are to be raised during the Millenium. You need a way to accomplish it.

Sunain
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by Sunain »

CelestialAngel wrote: July 1st, 2017, 9:16 am I mainly made this thread because Russell M Nelson and Dallin H Oaks are sealed to 2 women and I wonder the power of their 2nd sealing. I know several LDS women and many non LDS women who said they would be ok living polygamy and would welcome and love sister wives. There are a lot of non member women in today's world who are ok sharing a man.
I really think it's a question the church purposely avoids. If I may be so bold as to say they are concerned that by sealing multiple women to a man, it opens up the door to perhaps bisexual and lesbian relationships in the future. Obviously as you've said, there are people on this Earth that are perfectly comfortable in a polygamist relationship like that. It's a can of worms they don't want to get into especially with the homosexual issues the church has been dealing with. Many men get married and sealed a second time after their first wife dies but it seems women can't get sealed again if their husband dies. Donny Osmond seems to have confirmed this too.

A similar topic of discussion was brought up in another thread recently where it was discussed that the purpose of life is families. Homosexual relationships aren't allowed because there would be no familes but bisexuality for women with temple marriages to the same man seems to be one of those questions that will be answered and sorted out after the first ressurection. For now, they've avoided the issue by saying mortal men and women may only be married monogomously. Perhaps God does allow polygamous families for those that want them then.

I know many members though that are adamant that their husband is "their man" and that the option of polygamy is not even on the table for discussion at any time in eternity.

Juliet
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by Juliet »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 24th, 2017, 10:50 pm We talk a lot about polygamy but the 1890 Manifesto ended it. So do people living today ever have to worry about it or do you think we are done with it and won t affect our eternity in this world or the millennium. Why or why Not? I think it's over and done with for new marriages.
I think in end times when men are scarce it would come back because it would be necessary for all of the single women. There is that scripture about 7 women grabbing hold of 1 man. I am sorry, but I don't want to hang out with tons of hormonal middle aged single women. I would rather they get married off because otherwise they will go crazy. So we will just have to share.

For eternity though, I think the Holy Spirit of Promise will only seal us to our 1 and only beloved. Until then, all of these earthly experiences are for our experience and practice.

The most ideal would be for us to have all the men who die in the end times war get translated or resurrected and beamed back down here so all women can be guaranteed a husband, but so far, the council in heaven has ignored all of my ideas.
Last edited by Juliet on July 1st, 2017, 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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oneClimbs
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by oneClimbs »

CelestialAngel wrote: June 24th, 2017, 10:50 pm We talk a lot about polygamy but the 1890 Manifesto ended it. So do people living today ever have to worry about it or do you think we are done with it and won t affect our eternity in this world or the millennium. Why or why Not? I think it's over and done with for new marriages.
This is a quote from Brian and Linda Hales who compiled the exhaustive 3-volume series called Joseph Smith's Polygamy. I don't agree with them on everything of course, but here is something they said that I do agree with:

"Do we know that polygamy will ever be commanded again? In the 6000 years of religious history, the only adherents to be commanded were the Latter-day Saints between 1852 and 1890. Upon what basis does anyone assert that it will be commanded again?" Brian and Linda Hales, http://blog.fairmormon.org/wp-content/u ... fusion.pdf

On a side note, I think this fact is a strike against the theory that polygamy is used as a tool to rapidly increase population which is only supported by an interpretation of a single verse in Jacob 2. If in 6000 years of history it has never been used for that purpose, then why focus on that aspect? I have researched that verse and have proposed an alternative interpretation based on the context of the sermon and other factors: http://oneclimbs.com/2017/01/05/a-propo ... jacob-230/ I know that other people have their own viewpoints and I respect them, I'm only sharing for anyone who may be interested.

It appears that the Hales suggest that polygamy was specifically commanded only among the early saints. There is a potential basis for this although later teachings after 1852 and up to the turn of the century suggested that polygamy was not going anywhere and it was one of the central doctrines of Mormonism. Well, that has been reversed, polygamy is no longer necessary for exaltation and some questions whether it was necessary at all.

We don't go as far as saying that the early leaders were wrong, per se, just that God decided to end it. That still doesn't explain the fact that saying that polygamy wasn't going anywhere and that it was necessary and then saying that those statements are incorrect means that things that were not true were being taught as true.

For that reason I don't see a problem in proposing that the entire practice was wrong from the get go. To be fair though, it is possible that this practice being instituted as a test for the early saints could be legit. Having researched this subject for many years I haven't found compelling enough evidence for me to come down solidly on one side or the other.

Overall, I do not believe that this practice was engaged in with the same intent as the Nephites who were looking for a way to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms. I do believe that the early saints did their best to practice polygamy in a saintly way even if it was not God's will for them to do so. This is a very complex issue and I think that the origins are so murky and lost to time that I'm not sure we will ever know what the true story is. I don't find much use in bashing the early leaders. I think they were sincere in their motivations and the overwhelming good they did is honorable.

The Book of Mormon's view of polygamy is the rule of law today and that should be sobering. Nobody is being compelled to practice it, there is no historical precedent for God commanding it except for maybe a few decades in the 19th century. The pattern in Genesis of a man cleaving to his wife has been the archetype for marriage for the vast majority of human history and the entire human family. If polygamy worries you then consider those things.

Heaven may be a different picture. Let's be honest, none of us really knows what the society there will actually be like (unless you've been granted the privilege of viewing it). I trust God. Look what he has created and the beauty and order of it all. I have no desire for plural wives, I covenanted to cleave unto my wife and NONE ELSE so I'm sticking to my covenants. In the big picture though, I trust God and I do not believe that anything in heaven will be imposed upon myself or my family that would cause us distress or sorrow. I think we will understand many things and desire whatever truth and beauty we find there and in whatever form it may be.

Though there is much sorrow in this world, that confidence is bolstered by every time I can see the milky way, every sunset, the laughter of my children, wildflowers, and the taste of chocolate.

Some of what I have written is probably controversial and even offensive and I understand that. I know a lot of the positions many here have on these subjects and just know that I respect your opinion. I don't know everything and I'm not right about everything. These are my views at the moment and they continue to evolve as I learn more. Ultimately they matter very little in my world which is more focused on my family, friends, and relationship with God. Just adding to the discussion, if you find something useful, great, if not, ignore it and move on, I am no authority on any of it.

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Arenera
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by Arenera »

I recollect a sister conversing with Joseph Smith on this subject [plural marriage]. She told him: “Now, don't talk to me; when I get into the celestial kingdom, if I ever do get there, I shall request the privilege of being a ministering angel; that is the labor that I wish to perform. I don't want any companion in that world; and if the Lord will make me a ministering angel, it is all I want.” Joseph said, “Sister, you talk very foolishly, you do not know what you will want.” He then said to me: “Here, brother Brigham, you seal this lady to me.” I sealed her to him.
Brigham Young

Our leaders have talked to us, by their actions. President Nelson is sealed to a second wife. Plural marriage continues.

Don't you find it interesting that the adversary and man have approved same-sex marriage. Why would people approve of same-sex marriage and have a problem with plural marriage?

MMbelieve
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Re: Is polygamy ever coming back?

Post by MMbelieve »

Arenera wrote: July 1st, 2017, 4:47 pm
I recollect a sister conversing with Joseph Smith on this subject [plural marriage]. She told him: “Now, don't talk to me; when I get into the celestial kingdom, if I ever do get there, I shall request the privilege of being a ministering angel; that is the labor that I wish to perform. I don't want any companion in that world; and if the Lord will make me a ministering angel, it is all I want.” Joseph said, “Sister, you talk very foolishly, you do not know what you will want.” He then said to me: “Here, brother Brigham, you seal this lady to me.” I sealed her to him.
Brigham Young

Our leaders have talked to us, by their actions. President Nelson is sealed to a second wife. Plural marriage continues.

Don't you find it interesting that the adversary and man have approved same-sex marriage. Why would people approve of same-sex marriage and have a problem with plural marriage?
I think alot of people don't care what people decide to do in regards to marriage. I also don't think the majority of those who accept gay marriage oppose polygamy. We are in a free for all when it comes to love and sexuality and gender identity.

Same sex marriage involves 2 people, all we are doing is replacing man and wife with part 1 and party 2. Polygamy involves multiple parties, quite a different ball game.

I'm opposed to it because it seems that lds people believe that if society accepts it, the church will reinstate it. And I'm opposed to those within the church seeking after polygamy. Other christian religions oppose polygamy but it seems lds is pro polygamy. It's kind of a black mark on the church.

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