Deleted

[Elizabeth]

Gage, it is hardly fair nor right or correct to generalise is such a way.

[Gage]

If you are a man and if you ever had a Bishop tell you when you were young that as long as you live faithful and righteous he will send you a beautiful Mormon girl. Its simply not true. He cant do anything about your looks, but he should be telling young men if they go out and make or can show they are going to make a pile of money then he will get a beautiful, young Mormon girl to take to the temple.

[Matchmaker]

My marraige sure wasn't my idea, I can tell you that. I didn't even like my husband and never was "in love" with him. I simply obeyed HF and married him. My husband and I were most definately supposed to be married to each other, and only to each other, and to no one else, ever.

Maybe, if I think anyone would llke to hear it, I can tell this story on my Story Hour one day. But I don't really believe it is a story people would actually like to hear. God moves in mysterious ways, and my story is most mysterious. God's ways are higher than our ways, and you have to be on a higher level(than this world ) in order to even believe things could have really happened the way they did to me. But they did.

God will not be outdone in His generosity to those who obey Him. The blessings I have received for my obedience has far exceeded those I might have had if I had married for love or even someone I would have believed was more suited to me.

I would love to hear it. Please share it with us.

[Matchmaker]

I have been married for over 40 years. Many of them pretty bumpy. One thing I have learned is that Love is something you decide to do, not simply something you feel... and you can decide to love just about anybody.

Regards,

George Clay

I considered doing that but at the end of the day I couldn't do that to her (or myself) I mean beyond the fact she had a child and... that was a no go.
Then I met the girl I really liked and, well it went nowhere and I deleted her from all social media/phone and burned the very few things that reminded me of her lol.

So I feel better.

Don't give up, Sirocco. You are a unique and interesting person.

[Gage]

Im not trying to generalize, just trying to clear up some misconceptions about Mormon girls that can help with issues Mormon men may have and why they are wondering why everything isnt working out like they were told it would. Mormon girls are not "pure" like your Bishop told you when you were a young man. They are not "always" honest, yes they do lie, a lot. Yes they do have sex before their temple wedding, they are all not pure innocent virgins like your Bishop or SP told you and thinks they are. I would suspect many Mormon men married what they "thought" were virgins.

[Gage]

If more men understood that women dont marry for love they marry for what they are going to get out of the marriage, they could then save themselves a lot of heartache when it came to divorce time.

[Sirocco]

I wish I could, I've never really known how to give up, though things get harder and more daunting as I get older.

[Sirocco]

If more men understood that women dont marry for love they marry for what they are going to get out of the marriage, they could then save themselves a lot of heartache when it came to divorce time.

Yeah you got some high level MGTOW stuff going on here, I understand how some men get to be jaded in our current culture, but demonizing all women, like feminists demonize all men, basically makes you an SJW.
Yeah our culture has some lousy parts and it hits men and women in different ways, and it is human nature to want things, relationships do involve that, sure but its been like that since the dawn of humanity.

I've known several women who heavily out earn their boyfriends/husbands, somehow I don't think they're after his money... Your theory falls apart with logic friend.

[Gage]

If more men understood that women dont marry for love they marry for what they are going to get out of the marriage, they could then save themselves a lot of heartache when it came to divorce time.

Yeah you got some high level MGTOW stuff going on here, I understand how some men get to be jaded in our current culture, but demonizing all women, like feminists demonize all men, basically makes you an SJW.
Yeah our culture has some lousy parts and it hits men and women in different ways, and it is human nature to want things, relationships do involve that, sure but its been like that since the dawn of humanity.

I've known several women who heavily out earn their boyfriends/husbands, somehow I don't think they're after his money... Your theory falls apart with logic friend.

Yes I get it, I dont describe every woman and every situation. I am a realists, and if this society cannot see what has happened to the female gender with relation to relationships and marriage (among other things) then you are just turning a blind eye OR you were brought up Mormon like myself and you believe everything the Bishop told you or what the Mormon culture told you about girls. The Mormon culture tells you that Mormon girls are made of sugar and spice and everything nice and do no wrong, its simply a myth and not true. But hey some are, My mom for example is a good woman and faithful loyal wife. But today,and with today's woman, things are a bit different.

[Sirocco]

I wasn't brought up religious at all, and I am Canadian and in Canada Mormon culture is not so, i don't know, it's not really the same, since we don't have whole neighbourhoods of them (except in say Alberta, where they went first).
I mean I still am not a member as, I feel if I join the church they'd want me to be more social then I am and, I have too many problems to worry about church and the people there and what they think of me (I got enough people to dislike me lol).
Slowly I adopt things into my life, tea is the only thing giving me trouble, I do love tea lol.

The girl I fell head over heals for didn't care about money, though I am not sure (and I don't think she is even sure) what she wants out of a mate, she seems like the sort of person who never will figure that out, and she has said things hinting at that and probably will never have children like she wishes to.

Our culture has created grand issues with both genders, and I can certainly understand why men wouldn't want to be with a lot of millennial ladies, for sure I can.

[Rose Garden]

So . . . I'm going to say this although I don't know that it will do any good. There have been some beautiful posts on this thread, posts that should give people a sense of hope and an understanding of the mercy of God, wherever their personal path has taken them. Unfortunately, contention is more appealing than union in this fallen world. The jarring sentiments have gained more notice now than the beautiful ones and the thread is on a downward course. As far as I recall, I have yet seen a thread saved from that once it's begun going in that direction. I doubt that I will be able to change the course by pointing this out but I still feel I ought to do it anyway. People have been hurt by this difficult life. Showing compassion will turn the tide.

[Gage]

I apologize for hijacking the thread, lets move on from my comments and hear more wonderful love stories.

[Elizabeth]

No point worrying, instead exercise and eat and drink only healthy choices in small portions.

[butterfly]

The idea of multiple mortal probations is interesting to consider, too. Maybe the spirit tells you to marry someone, not because they're your soulmate but because they'll provide the trials you need to progress. (Similar perhaps to Meili's experience).

However, once you manage during a probation to get sealed to your "soulmate" then you are guaranteed all the help from heaven in order to get back together in the next life. This is why there are those who know they were meant to be with one specific person and only them. They were likely sealed together already in the previous life by the holy spirit of promise - it is an ordinance, like the baptism of fire, that let's you know that God has sealed you to your spouse.
This type of sealing doesn't happen with just any person you may end up married to. The physical ordinance of marriage/sealing happens in the temple but the spiritual ordinance can happen anywhere. The holy spirit of promise let's you know that God recognizes your sealing- without that your sealing is not yet complete.

[Kitkat]

My marraige sure wasn't my idea, I can tell you that. I didn't even like my husband and never was "in love" with him. I simply obeyed HF and married him. My husband and I were most definately supposed to be married to each other, and only to each other, and to no one else, ever.

Maybe, if I think anyone would llke to hear it, I can tell this story on my Story Hour one day. But I don't really believe it is a story people would actually like to hear. God moves in mysterious ways, and my story is most mysterious. God's ways are higher than our ways, and you have to be on a higher level(than this world ) in order to even believe things could have really happened the way they did to me. But they did.

God will not be outdone in His generosity to those who obey Him. The blessings I have received for my obedience has far exceeded those I might have had if I had married for love or even someone I would have believed was more suited to me.

Would also like to hear

[Alaris]

The idea of multiple mortal probations is interesting to consider, too. Maybe the spirit tells you to marry someone, not because they're your soulmate but because they'll provide the trials you need to progress. (Similar perhaps to Meili's experience).

However, once you manage during a probation to get sealed to your "soulmate" then you are guaranteed all the help from heaven in order to get back together in the next life. This is why there are those who know they were meant to be with one specific person and only them. They were likely sealed together already in the previous life by the holy spirit of promise - it is an ordinance, like the baptism of fire, that let's you know that God has sealed you to your spouse.
This type of sealing doesn't happen with just any person you may end up married to. The physical ordinance of marriage/sealing happens in the temple but the spiritual ordinance can happen anywhere. The holy spirit of promise let's you know that God recognizes your sealing- without that your sealing is not yet complete.

I would like to add my witness to butterfly's. Both scenarios apply to this one life of mine. And what she said about the spiritual ordinance happening anywhere is absolutely true and can even happen before the sealing. MMP may also be the explanation there. O:-) :ymparty:

[braingrunt]

My advice is to be taken with a grain of Salt.

Stop dating non-members if you want to marry in the temple. "Having" a girlfriend is not something good in itself. I'd recommend you intentionally avoid it for a good while. Instead, go out with people.

Your dates should aim for mutual discovery, on mental and spiritual levels. Brace yourself, you will be judging this person. Not in the sense that you replace God or imagine you know God's judgment of them. But in the sense that you are going to find out if you like how they tick.
To that end, there's room for all kinds of stuff. Fun, joking, teasing. But also thinking, discussing, debating. If you have done too much of that on your first date or at any time I suppose that is overbearing, but if you have done none of it what the heck kind of progress have you really made except maybe getting hot for each other? Getting hot for the wrong person is pure garbage, don't let it happen. Mixing in the mental and serious is a good way to slow that down. Share things that are important to you. Ask her to share things that are important to her. Tease out details. Bring testimony into your ideas if they are important enough. IF she refuses to do that with you, after multiple attempts, drop her. She doesn't want to know you or is not mature enough. Don't kiss her.

And if you don't like her mind or spirit, dump her. Don't kiss her. She may do the same to you. Get over it. Be glad that you found out her dislike before it would have caused more pain and evil.

You should not do anything physical until you have been able to connect mentally and spiritually for quite some time (in serious ways). Once that starts, the thinking stops. To that end, physical should only become an expression of some degree of love that you have been able to develop mentally. If physical does not express mental love, it's pure garbage poison. Stop it.

I had a high resistance to pure physical or hormonal attraction. That was good in its way but perhaps it was even too high. I'll be honest, it was hard for me to find the motivation to date. So perhaps there's a caveat to my attitude; but on the other hand, I'm sure it's largely right.

Make sure at some point you hear her testimony. You might have to tease it out of her. Think. Discuss.

After you have done all this, then you can have a real conversation with your heavenly father about this person. Do this after you feel a tolerable amount of love but before it becomes unbearable. Or else you have too little or too much skin in the game, and in that case how could you talk interestedly but rationally with your heavenly father or with any other human being? How could you expect an interested or rational response, when you are not interested and rational? It's my testimony that God usually does not.

And after all this, you still may mistake, but you have done a good thing. You are on much better ground than someone who has not.
Good luck.

[Finrock]

My advice is to be taken with a grain of Salt.

Stop dating non-members if you want to marry in the temple. "Having" a girlfriend is not something good in itself. I'd recommend you intentionally avoid it for a good while. Instead, go out with people.

Your dates should aim for mutual discovery, on mental and spiritual levels. Brace yourself, you will be judging this person. Not in the sense that you replace God or imagine you know God's judgment of them. But in the sense that you are going to find out if you like how they tick.
To that end, there's room for all kinds of stuff. Fun, joking, teasing. But also thinking, discussing, debating. If you have done too much of that on your first date or at any time I suppose that is overbearing, but if you have done none of it what the heck kind of progress have you really made except maybe getting hot for each other? Getting hot for the wrong person is pure garbage, don't let it happen. Mixing in the mental and serious is a good way to slow that down. Share things that are important to you. Ask her to share things that are important to her. Tease out details. Bring testimony into your ideas if they are important enough. IF she refuses to do that with you, after multiple attempts, drop her. She doesn't want to know you or is not mature enough. Don't kiss her.
You should not do anything physical until you have been able to connect mentally and spiritually for quite some time (in serious ways). Once that starts, the thinking stops. To that end, physical should only become an expression of some degree of love that you have been able to develop mentally. If physical does not express mental love, it's pure garbage poison. Stop it.
I had a high resistance to pure physical or hormonal attraction. That was good in its way but perhaps it was even too high. I'll be honest, it was hard for me to find the motivation to date. So perhaps there's a caveat to my attitude; but on the other hand, I'm sure it's largely right.

Make sure at some point you hear her testimony. You might have to tease it out of her. Think. Discuss.

After you have done all this, then you can have a real conversation with your heavenly father about this person. Do this after you feel a tolerable amount of love but before it becomes unbearable. Or else you have too little or too much skin in the game, and in that case how could you talk interestedly but rationally with your heavenly father or with any other human being? How could you expect an interested or rational response, when you are not interested and rational? It's my testimony that God usually does not.

And after all this, you still may mistake, but you have done a good thing. You are on much better ground than someone who has not.
Good luck.

Good advice here, in my opinion.

-Finrock

[Arenera]

If "you're the one that i love" song comes into your mind, you know that it is real!

[Rose Garden]

My advice is to be taken with a grain of Salt.

Stop dating non-members if you want to marry in the temple. "Having" a girlfriend is not something good in itself. I'd recommend you intentionally avoid it for a good while. Instead, go out with people.

Your dates should aim for mutual discovery, on mental and spiritual levels. Brace yourself, you will be judging this person. Not in the sense that you replace God or imagine you know God's judgment of them. But in the sense that you are going to find out if you like how they tick.
To that end, there's room for all kinds of stuff. Fun, joking, teasing. But also thinking, discussing, debating. If you have done too much of that on your first date or at any time I suppose that is overbearing, but if you have done none of it what the heck kind of progress have you really made except maybe getting hot for each other? Getting hot for the wrong person is pure garbage, don't let it happen. Mixing in the mental and serious is a good way to slow that down. Share things that are important to you. Ask her to share things that are important to her. Tease out details. Bring testimony into your ideas if they are important enough. IF she refuses to do that with you, after multiple attempts, drop her. She doesn't want to know you or is not mature enough. Don't kiss her.

And if you don't like her mind or spirit, dump her. Don't kiss her. She may do the same to you. Get over it. Be glad that you found out her dislike before it would have caused more pain and evil.

You should not do anything physical until you have been able to connect mentally and spiritually for quite some time (in serious ways). Once that starts, the thinking stops. To that end, physical should only become an expression of some degree of love that you have been able to develop mentally. If physical does not express mental love, it's pure garbage poison. Stop it.

I had a high resistance to pure physical or hormonal attraction. That was good in its way but perhaps it was even too high. I'll be honest, it was hard for me to find the motivation to date. So perhaps there's a caveat to my attitude; but on the other hand, I'm sure it's largely right.

Make sure at some point you hear her testimony. You might have to tease it out of her. Think. Discuss.

After you have done all this, then you can have a real conversation with your heavenly father about this person. Do this after you feel a tolerable amount of love but before it becomes unbearable. Or else you have too little or too much skin in the game, and in that case how could you talk interestedly but rationally with your heavenly father or with any other human being? How could you expect an interested or rational response, when you are not interested and rational? It's my testimony that God usually does not.

And after all this, you still may mistake, but you have done a good thing. You are on much better ground than someone who has not.
Good luck.

In summary, become friends first before seeking any kind of a physical relationship.

I was talking with a friend recently about how often we are asking, should I marry this person, when we've never even tried to become friends with them first. We date to marry not to become friends. A marriage in which the husband and wife are not friends is a business arrangement, not a true marriage. It's set up to invite lots and lots of problems into the life of that family.

[braingrunt]

...
You should not do anything physical until you have been able to connect mentally and spiritually for quite some time (in serious ways). Once that starts, the thinking stops. To that end, physical should only become an expression of some degree of love that you have been able to develop mentally. If physical does not express mental love, it's pure garbage poison. Stop it.
....

In summary, become friends first before seeking any kind of a physical relationship.

I was talking with a friend recently about how often we are asking, should I marry this person, when we've never even tried to become friends with them first. We date to marry not to become friends. A marriage in which the husband and wife are not friends is a business arrangement, not a true marriage. It's set up to invite lots and lots of problems into the life of that family.

I advise caution when using the "friend" word. Yes, it's correct... but what kind of friend, is key. Certainly not the kind who likes to hear her talk about other boys. And certainly the kind of friend who you respect, not just like.

[Gage]

Relationships start from attraction/physical chemistry. A woman doesnt go out hoping to find someone to become a good friend that she can later marry. She goes out looking for an attractive man to mate with. Women could care less how compatible you might be(she already has plans to change you anyway) she doesnt care about becoming best friends, she only cares that she finds you attractive and of course how much money you have. If a woman keeps you in the friend zone, it just means she doesnt find you attractive.

[braingrunt]

Bitter.
But yeah don't accept normal friendship definitions, they won't help you cross the finish line.
And yeah, try to look good and be a good provider. You should. A woman should want that. She is not wrong to.
A good woman will also be interested in your goodness. If not, dump her.

[Rose Garden]

I don't believe there are different types of friends. There are genuine friends and then there are people you associate with who call you friend but who are really unfriendly. A genuine friend should always be someone you could marry, if you were attracted to them and them to you.

[braingrunt]

I don't believe there are different types of friends. There are genuine friends and then there are people you associate with who call you friend but who are really unfriendly. A genuine friend should always be someone you could marry, if you were attracted to them and them to you.

Sure I could agree with that, but one thing I think I'd say, is that if either person is unwilling to tweak the parameters of the friendship, then they are not a current candidate for you, and you should probably date other people instead.