Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
There is something interesting about the "It won't keep you out of heaven or the Celestial Kingdom" excuse that really bothers me.
We hear it brought out anytime someone wants to justify a behavior that is questionable (hence the controversy) but hasn't been strictly forbidden by way of command by proper authority.
I'm always led to think a few things.
1. It is not meet that we are commanded in all things.
2. It is usually controversial because we have been given enough guidance by proper authority to know that the behavior is certainly not endorsed, if not strictly prohibited.
3. How do you know it won't keep you out of the Celestial Kingdom? Granted, I doubt you'll stand before the judgement bar and hear "If it wasn't for all that soda you drank you'd be welcome here." Or "we just can't let a caffeine drinker/R-rated movie watcher/"purple shirt to pass the sacrament person"in here. "
I think it has more to do with our hearts and becoming. Kind of like Pride Parades. We all have weaknesses, maybe yours is drinking too much caffeine, or indulging in inappropriate media, or just not wanting to conform to social expectations that aren't really unreasonable and hold symbolic meaning for many you purport to be serving. But to flaunt it and try to convert others is where such an activity may trip you up and stunt your growth or lead you off on a strange path. Sure, we can refrain from making final judgements based on such behavior, about ourselves and others, as long as we are working on becoming better, recognize our weakness, and try to understand and live by the Letter and the Spirit of the Law.
We hear it brought out anytime someone wants to justify a behavior that is questionable (hence the controversy) but hasn't been strictly forbidden by way of command by proper authority.
I'm always led to think a few things.
1. It is not meet that we are commanded in all things.
2. It is usually controversial because we have been given enough guidance by proper authority to know that the behavior is certainly not endorsed, if not strictly prohibited.
3. How do you know it won't keep you out of the Celestial Kingdom? Granted, I doubt you'll stand before the judgement bar and hear "If it wasn't for all that soda you drank you'd be welcome here." Or "we just can't let a caffeine drinker/R-rated movie watcher/"purple shirt to pass the sacrament person"in here. "
I think it has more to do with our hearts and becoming. Kind of like Pride Parades. We all have weaknesses, maybe yours is drinking too much caffeine, or indulging in inappropriate media, or just not wanting to conform to social expectations that aren't really unreasonable and hold symbolic meaning for many you purport to be serving. But to flaunt it and try to convert others is where such an activity may trip you up and stunt your growth or lead you off on a strange path. Sure, we can refrain from making final judgements based on such behavior, about ourselves and others, as long as we are working on becoming better, recognize our weakness, and try to understand and live by the Letter and the Spirit of the Law.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
I wonder how the church regarded Coca-Cola originally when the "Coca" was actually cocaine.
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 140
Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
How did I find myself in an "optimize public policy for everyone" conversation!?BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑June 26th, 2017, 3:41 pmYour answer only addressed you and your kids at the current time, hardly a way to optimize public policy for everyone.Irrelevant wrote: ↑June 24th, 2017, 9:46 pm
The amount of caffeine isn't on the label; how do you know?
How do I know what? If something is bad for my child? By "following the promptings of the Holy Spirit" and good sense.
Or how much caffeine something contains? As far as I can tell (I don't drink energy drinks and rarely soda of any kind as I prefer to ingest my sugar in ice cream) most things actually do have it on the label- if not, Google. But I don't really care to know. My kids are quite energetic as it is. They certainly do not need help!
Also kids often buy stuff without any parent around, and many have parents that are less than optimal.
True. Do you propose carding them?
Yes, beyond a certain mass/volume, which now is impossible to know due to lack of labeling. Kids can't buy other detrimental substances, why not caffeine?
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- captain of 100
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
Wonderful parable. I've often wondered if the wheat and tares know that they are such.
- mirkwood
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
I think there are going to be a lot of really surprised LDS when they get to the other side and see who in their ward did and did not "make it."
I've never understood the LDS who strain at gnats with such fierceness.
If this quote was in the context that Elizabeth is trying to force it (round hole meet square peg), I guarantee there would be no soda offered in the temples.
I've never understood the LDS who strain at gnats with such fierceness.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
There it is! I was wondering when the "straining at gnats" would finally be brought up.mirkwood wrote: ↑June 27th, 2017, 4:55 pm I think there are going to be a lot of really surprised LDS when they get to the other side and see who in their ward did and did not "make it."
If this quote was in the context that Elizabeth is trying to force it (round hole meet square peg), I guarantee there would be no soda offered in the temples.
I've never understood the LDS who strain at gnats with such fierceness.
It is only a sin to strain at gnats if one is also swallowing camels.
I have quite a few things I have been accused of "straining at gnats" for. Funny thing, they are all things the Lord has commanded me to do, found in scripture or modern prophecy, in direct response to questions and needs I placed before the Lord. And as strange or small as they sound to many, most have resulted in the desired petition: to have the health to bare more children. Not a small thing to me.
Strangely, many woman suffer from the same fertility issues, caused by our modern life and exposures, with answers found in modern and ancient scripture, who won't accept the "easiness" of the way because it seems like straining at gnats.
I can testify, by small and simple things at great things brought to pass. A correct understanding of the Word of Wisdom and Law of Moses have literally healed me and allowed me a posterity I could not otherwise have. These may look like gnats, but I assure you, and the Lord has said, never at any time has he given a command that was temporal, they are all for our spiritual benefit.
As for me, I never understood the LDS who say "
"Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; "
As for soda in temples, what a silly guarantee. If your guarantee had merit, why would we ever expect tares to be allowed to grow among the wheat? Why would the Lord allow it? Wouldn't he just remove the temptation entirely? Perhaps agency applies everywhere, even at the temple.
- mirkwood
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
So can I.
As for soda in temples, what a silly guarantee. If your guarantee had merit, why would we ever expect tares to be allowed to grow among the wheat? Why would the Lord allow it? Wouldn't he just remove the temptation entirely? Perhaps agency applies everywhere, even at the temple.
So is President Monson a tare? He drinks soda.
I think the real problem is some people have developed their own belief system and have found those things contrary to what is being taught. Then they say things like Elizabeth did earlier where she begins to question if everything else in the church is a sham because members of the First Presidency and Q12 have/are soda drinkers. I think someone who goes down that path probably should re-evaluate their personal opinions and stop defining them as church doctrine when they are not.
- mirkwood
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
I've used that phrase already. Maybe it was in this thread, I don't remember.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
No, you totally missed the point of my analogy. I don't actually care if you drink soda, or any of the other points I mentioned. Sorry I took the time to engage with you. Good luck to you.mirkwood wrote: ↑June 27th, 2017, 6:05 pmSo can I.
As for soda in temples, what a silly guarantee. If your guarantee had merit, why would we ever expect tares to be allowed to grow among the wheat? Why would the Lord allow it? Wouldn't he just remove the temptation entirely? Perhaps agency applies everywhere, even at the temple.
So is President Monson a tare? He drinks soda.
I think the real problem is some people have developed their own belief system and have found those things contrary to what is being taught. Then they say things like Elizabeth did earlier where she begins to question if everything else in the church is a sham because members of the First Presidency and Q12 have/are soda drinkers. I think someone who goes down that path probably should re-evaluate their personal opinions and stop defining them as church doctrine when they are not.
- BeNotDeceived
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
Labeling laws are the result of public policy. :-\Irrelevant wrote: ↑June 27th, 2017, 11:51 amHow did I find myself in an "optimize public policy for everyone" conversation!?BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑June 26th, 2017, 3:41 pmYour answer only addressed you and your kids at the current time, hardly a way to optimize public policy for everyone.Irrelevant wrote: ↑June 24th, 2017, 9:46 pm
The amount of caffeine isn't on the label; how do you know?
How do I know what? If something is bad for my child? By "following the promptings of the Holy Spirit" and good sense.
Or how much caffeine something contains? As far as I can tell (I don't drink energy drinks and rarely soda of any kind as I prefer to ingest my sugar in ice cream) most things actually do have it on the label- if not, Google. But I don't really care to know. My kids are quite energetic as it is. They certainly do not need help!
Also kids often buy stuff without any parent around, and many have parents that are less than optimal.
True. Do you propose carding them?
Yes, beyond a certain mass/volume, which now is impossible to know due to lack of labeling. Kids can't buy other detrimental substances, why not caffeine?
Meanwhile advertisers spend millions of dollars to dupe children to do the dew.
Maybe dew represents the maximum dosage allowed, any higher dose is deemed a dewn't and not sold to minors. Energy Drinks, Jolt and others sodas clearly exceed what's ok for a child to consume without a parents consent. Excise tax all harmful substances to the extent that they are harmful and use the funds collected to remedy the damages resulting from their consumption, to subsidize healthcare, public transpo and other legitimate purposes.
Win-win encourages good choices to prevent problems, rather than attempt costly cures.
Also incentivizes innovation of healthy food choices.
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- captain of 100
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
Ha ha ha. Now that's pretty darn good.
- BeNotDeceived
- Agent38
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
Glad you liked it ... Here's a new article ... the tide is beginning to turn for the better. :ymapplause:
Why a sugar tax could be good for businesses
Dr Peter Devine, Herald Sun
July 13, 2017 9:13pm
THERE is little deniability that sugar consumption is directly linked to Australia’s obesity crisis and other weight-related chronic health problems, such as type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease.
So why are we still debating a proposed tax on sugar-sweetened drinks?
PERKII TAKES ON $50B PROBIOTICS INDUSTRY
Why — when research is telling us a 20 per cent rise in the price of these beverages over 25 years could save hundreds of lives, prevent thousands of heart attacks, save the healthcare system more than $600 million, while also generating a further $500 million in revenue per year — is there even a point of contention?
Putting aside arguments from anti-nanny state individuals, the truth is sugar is good for business. That’s if your business is a beverage powerhouse or somehow tied to the nation’s sugar industry.
What we haven’t heard much of yet, is how a proposed sugar tax could be great for business. More specifically, how it could fuel innovation in an industry that is monopolized by a few, risk-averse major players. ... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/wh ... b407797ba6
The linked article has a great video of phycological effects of telling one group a milk-shake has 150 calories while telling another group it has 600 calories, when really it's the same 300 calorie shake. =))
This link works.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... RbPqCVAZ5w
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- captain of 50
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
Having given up both caffeine and sugar for a few weeks last year, I can attest that sugar is much more addictive than caffeine, at least for me. I spent a night with a biting headache due to the caffeine withdrawal, but I didn't crave anything caffeinated afterwards. But it was a challenge forgoing anything laden with sugar. After three days, I actually had a dream about eating doughnuts and spent the following day desperate for something sweet.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
The first week I gave up sugar, I literally cleaned my whole house, including sorting, trashing, donating, deep cleaning. It was a different world.Sasquatch wrote: ↑July 18th, 2017, 1:06 pm Having given up both caffeine and sugar for a few weeks last year, I can attest that sugar is much more addictive than caffeine, at least for me. I spent a night with a biting headache due to the caffeine withdrawal, but I didn't crave anything caffeinated afterwards. But it was a challenge forgoing anything laden with sugar. After three days, I actually had a dream about eating doughnuts and spent the following day desperate for something sweet.
Trying to get up the courage to do it permanently. Withdrawals were intense.
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- captain of 100
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
What do you think the government would ACTUALLY do with the revenue from your proposed sin tax?? It is absolutely not the government's place do do any sort of thing. Nor would I trust them to do it well even if it were. Get over it already. This is the lds FREEDOM forum, right? Am I in the wrong place?
- BeNotDeceived
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Re: Coca-Cola arrives at LDS Business College, but BYU stays on no-caffeine wagon
It would be a great way to help fund health care i.e. an ounce of prevention ...Crackers wrote: ↑July 18th, 2017, 8:18 pm What do you think the government would ACTUALLY do with the revenue from your proposed sin tax?? It is absolutely not the government's place do do any sort of thing. Nor would I trust them to do it well even if it were. Get over it already. This is the lds FREEDOM forum, right? Am I in the wrong place?
Innovation has already begun
The reformulation race: Driving change in sugar-sweetened beverages
... The UK government plans to introduce a levy on sugar sweetened beverages in April 2018. In its draft legislation published in December, it claimed the impending legislation was already encouraging producers to reformulate drinks (those that contain less than 5g per 100ml will not be subject to the level; while those with between 5g and 8g will be subject to a lower rate).
Certainly, there has been a flurry of sugar reduction announcements in recent months, mainly using the 5g/100ml threshold as a benchmark. ... http://mobile.beveragedaily.com/Markets ... -beverages ...