Temples are also for Work during the Millennium

[Finrock]

The source of doctrine for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are the Standard Works and the inspired utterances of the President of the Church. But, the scriptures provide the standard by which we can measure all the words spoken by any man, woman, or child in the Church. Sometimes correlated manuals line up with the scriptures, sometimes they don't, even though those who are putting those manuals together are probably doing their best to make sure what they are saying agrees with scripture.

There is a process in place by which new scripture is created in the Church, outlined in the scriptures, which has been rarely used in more modern times. We don't have to believe every word uttered or said by the current leaders of the Church and manuals don't constitute scripture. "Thus saith the Lord" oracles far outweigh any other utterances.

So, I understand how my Church functions and I understand where to look for doctrine and for sources of truth. When it is all said and done, the Spirit matters most, because all scripture comes from the Spirit and if it isn't spoken by the power of the Holy Ghost, it is not scripture, no matter who says it. The Standard Works have been universally recognized and sustained by the body of the Church to be inspired utterances of God in written form.

*Inspired means that these are things given by the power of the Holy Ghost or it is the Spirit that is dictating.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

my comments in blue:

An interesting question that I have pondered sometimes is, how much real estate will the Lord preserve for the Millennium through the day of burning? Will it only be Temples?

I have often wondered, what will become of the computer systems with all the databases that we need, and all the family-history records, and all the Church historical records? Will special protection be given to these things to survive the day of burning?

I've often wondered what will become of all of my family historical records in the burning. I hope the Lord will preserve these things like he preserved the Book of Mormon plates, so we don't have to reconstruct them all by looking through a Urim and Thummim.

I've wondered the same thing. The scriptures teach us that the earth will be completely burned and renewed by fire and all man made things will be essentially burned as stubble.Michelle is right, you are mixing up two events. The earth will not be 'completely burned and renewed by fire' at the second coming of Christ, at his coming, the wicked will be burned as stubble, but the righteous will be preserved.Not only that, the scriptures teach that there will be no temple in the New Jerusalem.To read it this way ignores our modern revelation that there will be a temple in the New Jerusalem--Joseph Smith planned a temple complex. I believe Revelation 21:22 is referring to when the earth would be celestialized, that comes at the end of the Millenium. Do we really need to rely on computers during the Millennium anyway? Isn't the promise that the Holy Spirit will bring all things to our rememberance and more?Yes, I think we will use computers and we will also have lots of help from the other side. I see no reason why we wouldn't use all the gifts and blessings God has bestowed on us in this technological age,
and continue to receive more.

Further, what will any temples be used for? What work?The same work they are used for now, though I think we may possibly be doing the second anointing ordinance by proxy as well. There are many references from church leaders that we will be doing temple work throughout the Millenium, but if you reject those references outside the canon of Scripture, then I can see why you wouldn't have any idea what we might use a temple for in the Millenium. I ask because, Christ will be here. No veil, so no need for symbolic representations of what has become a reality (Endowment Ceremony). All are born and from birth will have the Holy Spirit (will be endowed) and will be sealed. No need for water baptisms for them. We will have the keys of the resurrection, so no need for proxy work.I don't know where you get all this from, we will still have ordinances for the living and we will do ordinances for the dead. When Jesus appeared to the Nephites, the first thing he did was give his disciples power to baptize. He was there with them, yet he desired that all should be baptized, as the entrance into the covenant they would make with him and to receive the gift of the holy ghost, which is given through the laying on of hands. This is the doctrine of Christ--I see no reason why Jesus would do away with his own doctrine when there will be just as many living and to be living who will need it. The earth, as mentioned above, will receive its paradisiacal glory, it will be a temple. So, what work will require the physical temples during the Millennium?The world will be terrestrial, it does not become Celestialized until the end of the Millenium. Don't forget that Satan will be loosed for a little season before the final end of the world--it is not perfect during the Millenium, it is Terrestrial. And clearly the Temples will be needed for Temple work during the Millenium. That's their purpose and we'll need more of them.

-Finrock

Michelle gave you an excellent run down on these two events and how they would be different, did you consider that you just might have some erroneous notions and maybe look into the information she shared, or did you just blow her off? To me, it seemed from your response to her that you were blowing her off. However, what she explained to you IS LDS doctrine, and as such, those who believe LDS doctrine to be correct, will read the scriptures (including the scripture you shared from 2 Peter ) within that context.

In a nutshell here's the two events in question; LDS teachings are that at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, but the righteous saved. The earth enters a Terrestrial stage, with Jesus reigning on earth. The work in Temples, and the gospel continue through the Millenium, 1,000 years appx. Then, at the end of the Millenium, Satan is 'loosed' once again and after the great battle, the earth is THEN completely burned and passes away, is 'resurrected'----it turns into a sea of glass, as Joseph described a great urim and thummim, and receives it's Celestial glory returning to where God is in the Heavens and then those who inherit Celestial glory will live there.

I hope this helps clarify this.

Here are some quotes on this subject;

“The time is not far distant when great judgments will be poured out upon the wicked inhabitants of the earth. Every Prophet who has looked forward to our day has seen and predicted that the wicked would be destroyed. Their destruction means the destruction of Satan’s power. The righteous will be left, and because of their righteousness the Lord will have mercy upon them; they, exercising their agency in the right direction, will bring down His blessings upon them to such an extent that Satan will be bound” (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, 1:86–87).

When Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, he learned that America is the land of Zion which was given to Joseph and his children and that on this land the City Zion, or New Jerusalem, is to be built. He also learned that Jerusalem in Palestine is to be rebuilt and become a holy city. [3 Nephi 20:22; 21:20–29; Ether 13:1–12.] These two cities, one in the land of Zion and one in Palestine, are to become capitals for the kingdom of God during the millennium” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:71).
“That this work may be hastened so that all who believe, in the spirit world, may receive the benefit of deliverance, it is revealed that the great work of the Millennium shall be the work in the temples for the redemption of the dead; and then we hope to enjoy the benefits of revelation through the Urim and Thummim, or by such means as the Lord may reveal concerning those for whom the work shall be done, so that we may not work by chance, or by faith alone, without knowledge, but with the actual knowledge revealed unto us” (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 438).

Some members of the Church have an erroneous idea that when the millennium comes all of the people are going to be swept off the earth except righteous members of the Church. That is not so. There will be millions of people, Catholics, Protestants, agnostics, Mohammedans, people of all classes, and of all beliefs, still permitted to remain upon the face of the earth, but they will be those who have lived clean lives, those who have been free from wickedness and corruption. All who belong, by virtue of their good lives, to the terrestrial order, as well as those who have kept the celestial law, will remain upon the face of the earth during the millennium.
“Eventually, however, the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters do the sea. But there will be need for the preaching of the gospel, after the millennium is brought in, until all men are either converted or pass away” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:86–87).

“In that great change, or resurrection, which shall come to this earth, it shall be sanctified, celestialized and made a fit abode even for God the Father, who shall grace it with his presence. (D.C. 88:19.) Then shall the righteous, those who have become sanctified through the law of God, possess it for ever as their abode. This earth is destined to become the everlasting residence of its inhabitants who gain the glory of the celestial kingdom. It shall become in that day like the throne of God and shall shine forth with all the splendor and brightness of celestial glory in its eternal, sanctified and glorious state” (Smith, Way to Perfection, 351).

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of ... h?lang=eng

I'm not mixing two events. The scriptures I've referenced so far are speaking about when Jesus Christ returns again to usher in the Millennium. The Earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory, which is what I've already stated. I did not state that it will receive it's celestial glory. But, a careful study of the scriptures will reveal that all things will be burned on the surface of the Earth at the coming of Christ. Please see D&C 101 and 2 Peter 3, for references. There are other references as well.

I speculated that with the keys of the resurrection, proxy work seems obsolete. Why do proxy work when we can resurrect the people and have them be baptized themselves.

As far as the reference to there being no temple in the New Jerusalem, that is what the scripture says. Actually, it says that John did not see a temple there, but in context it seems pretty clear that there isn't a temple there. Because Joseph Smith had plans to build a temple during a time prior to the Millennium doesn't mean that it will be there after the Second Coming and during the Millennium.

The Millennial state will be different than any other period of Earth history. Your reference to Jesus appearing to the Nephites and calling apostles is largely irrelevant. During that period of time people where not born in to world where there was not wickedness. Children born during the Millennium don't need to be baptized because they will not have any sin. Not having any sin means that you have the Holy Ghost. The doctrine of Christ applies in situations when there are people who are sinful. If it applied to times when people were sinless, then little children would need to be baptized, for instance.

I agree that not every person will be destroyed. I never claimed otherwise, by the way, but nothing wrong with pointing out additional information. Just recognize that it isn't refuting anything that I've said or suggested in my posts.

Many things will be different in a state where there is not sin. Many of the ordinances that are required today or which are needful for people today, will not be needful or required during the Millennium, because conditioned have changed.

On to some unabashed speculation: As far as technology, computers, etc. Well, whatever, is what I say. I think that they will largely be useless because who needs these things when you have unfiltered access to God's power and the Holy Spirit? The power of a man made computer doesn't even show up in the same spectrum of power as compared to the Holy Ghost and what we can accomplish through its power. Perhaps when the Millennium first begins and we are still dealing with our old ways and getting use to the better stuff, we will have some semblance of things that we have now. Perhaps there will be many new inventions as some have speculated, but, I think any infrastructure that will exist during the Millennium will need to be rebuilt from scratch because all the stuff on the surface of the planet will have been burned up. Which is a good thing in my view. Will be nice to live on an Earth that has received its paradisiacal glory (not to be confused with celestial glory) where everything has been renewed.

-Finrock

[Jonesy]

my comments in blue:

An interesting question that I have pondered sometimes is, how much real estate will the Lord preserve for the Millennium through the day of burning? Will it only be Temples?

I have often wondered, what will become of the computer systems with all the databases that we need, and all the family-history records, and all the Church historical records? Will special protection be given to these things to survive the day of burning?

I've often wondered what will become of all of my family historical records in the burning. I hope the Lord will preserve these things like he preserved the Book of Mormon plates, so we don't have to reconstruct them all by looking through a Urim and Thummim.

I've wondered the same thing. The scriptures teach us that the earth will be completely burned and renewed by fire and all man made things will be essentially burned as stubble.Michelle is right, you are mixing up two events. The earth will not be 'completely burned and renewed by fire' at the second coming of Christ, at his coming, the wicked will be burned as stubble, but the righteous will be preserved.Not only that, the scriptures teach that there will be no temple in the New Jerusalem.To read it this way ignores our modern revelation that there will be a temple in the New Jerusalem--Joseph Smith planned a temple complex. I believe Revelation 21:22 is referring to when the earth would be celestialized, that comes at the end of the Millenium. Do we really need to rely on computers during the Millennium anyway? Isn't the promise that the Holy Spirit will bring all things to our rememberance and more?Yes, I think we will use computers and we will also have lots of help from the other side. I see no reason why we wouldn't use all the gifts and blessings God has bestowed on us in this technological age,
and continue to receive more.

Further, what will any temples be used for? What work?The same work they are used for now, though I think we may possibly be doing the second anointing ordinance by proxy as well. There are many references from church leaders that we will be doing temple work throughout the Millenium, but if you reject those references outside the canon of Scripture, then I can see why you wouldn't have any idea what we might use a temple for in the Millenium. I ask because, Christ will be here. No veil, so no need for symbolic representations of what has become a reality (Endowment Ceremony). All are born and from birth will have the Holy Spirit (will be endowed) and will be sealed. No need for water baptisms for them. We will have the keys of the resurrection, so no need for proxy work.I don't know where you get all this from, we will still have ordinances for the living and we will do ordinances for the dead. When Jesus appeared to the Nephites, the first thing he did was give his disciples power to baptize. He was there with them, yet he desired that all should be baptized, as the entrance into the covenant they would make with him and to receive the gift of the holy ghost, which is given through the laying on of hands. This is the doctrine of Christ--I see no reason why Jesus would do away with his own doctrine when there will be just as many living and to be living who will need it. The earth, as mentioned above, will receive its paradisiacal glory, it will be a temple. So, what work will require the physical temples during the Millennium?The world will be terrestrial, it does not become Celestialized until the end of the Millenium. Don't forget that Satan will be loosed for a little season before the final end of the world--it is not perfect during the Millenium, it is Terrestrial. And clearly the Temples will be needed for Temple work during the Millenium. That's their purpose and we'll need more of them.

-Finrock

Michelle gave you an excellent run down on these two events and how they would be different, did you consider that you just might have some erroneous notions and maybe look into the information she shared, or did you just blow her off? To me, it seemed from your response to her that you were blowing her off. However, what she explained to you IS LDS doctrine, and as such, those who believe LDS doctrine to be correct, will read the scriptures (including the scripture you shared from 2 Peter ) within that context.

In a nutshell here's the two events in question; LDS teachings are that at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, but the righteous saved. The earth enters a Terrestrial stage, with Jesus reigning on earth. The work in Temples, and the gospel continue through the Millenium, 1,000 years appx. Then, at the end of the Millenium, Satan is 'loosed' once again and after the great battle, the earth is THEN completely burned and passes away, is 'resurrected'----it turns into a sea of glass, as Joseph described a great urim and thummim, and receives it's Celestial glory returning to where God is in the Heavens and then those who inherit Celestial glory will live there.

I hope this helps clarify this.

Here are some quotes on this subject;

“The time is not far distant when great judgments will be poured out upon the wicked inhabitants of the earth. Every Prophet who has looked forward to our day has seen and predicted that the wicked would be destroyed. Their destruction means the destruction of Satan’s power. The righteous will be left, and because of their righteousness the Lord will have mercy upon them; they, exercising their agency in the right direction, will bring down His blessings upon them to such an extent that Satan will be bound” (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, 1:86–87).

When Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, he learned that America is the land of Zion which was given to Joseph and his children and that on this land the City Zion, or New Jerusalem, is to be built. He also learned that Jerusalem in Palestine is to be rebuilt and become a holy city. [3 Nephi 20:22; 21:20–29; Ether 13:1–12.] These two cities, one in the land of Zion and one in Palestine, are to become capitals for the kingdom of God during the millennium” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:71).
“That this work may be hastened so that all who believe, in the spirit world, may receive the benefit of deliverance, it is revealed that the great work of the Millennium shall be the work in the temples for the redemption of the dead; and then we hope to enjoy the benefits of revelation through the Urim and Thummim, or by such means as the Lord may reveal concerning those for whom the work shall be done, so that we may not work by chance, or by faith alone, without knowledge, but with the actual knowledge revealed unto us” (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 438).

Some members of the Church have an erroneous idea that when the millennium comes all of the people are going to be swept off the earth except righteous members of the Church. That is not so. There will be millions of people, Catholics, Protestants, agnostics, Mohammedans, people of all classes, and of all beliefs, still permitted to remain upon the face of the earth, but they will be those who have lived clean lives, those who have been free from wickedness and corruption. All who belong, by virtue of their good lives, to the terrestrial order, as well as those who have kept the celestial law, will remain upon the face of the earth during the millennium.
“Eventually, however, the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters do the sea. But there will be need for the preaching of the gospel, after the millennium is brought in, until all men are either converted or pass away” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:86–87).

“In that great change, or resurrection, which shall come to this earth, it shall be sanctified, celestialized and made a fit abode even for God the Father, who shall grace it with his presence. (D.C. 88:19.) Then shall the righteous, those who have become sanctified through the law of God, possess it for ever as their abode. This earth is destined to become the everlasting residence of its inhabitants who gain the glory of the celestial kingdom. It shall become in that day like the throne of God and shall shine forth with all the splendor and brightness of celestial glory in its eternal, sanctified and glorious state” (Smith, Way to Perfection, 351).

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of ... h?lang=eng

I'm not mixing two events. The scriptures I've referenced so far are speaking about when Jesus Christ returns again to usher in the Millennium. The Earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory, which is what I've already stated. I did not state that it will receive it's celestial glory. But, a careful study of the scriptures will reveal that all things will be burned on the surface of the Earth at the coming of Christ. Please see D&C 101 and 2 Peter 3, for references. There are other references as well.

I speculated that with the keys of the resurrection, proxy work seems obsolete. Why do proxy work when we can resurrect the people and have them be baptized themselves.

As far as the reference to there being no temple in the New Jerusalem, that is what the scripture says. Actually, it says that John did not see a temple there, but in context it seems pretty clear that there isn't a temple there. Because Joseph Smith had plans to build a temple during a time prior to the Millennium doesn't mean that it will be there after the Second Coming and during the Millennium.

The Millennial state will be different than any other period of Earth history. Your reference to Jesus appearing to the Nephites and calling apostles is largely irrelevant. During that period of time people where not born in to world where there was not wickedness. Children born during the Millennium don't need to be baptized because they will not have any sin. Not having any sin means that you have the Holy Ghost. The doctrine of Christ applies in situations when there are people who are sinful. If it applied to times when people were sinless, then little children would need to be baptized, for instance.

I agree that not every person will be destroyed. I never claimed otherwise, by the way, but nothing wrong with pointing out additional information. Just recognize that it isn't refuting anything that I've said or suggested in my posts.

Many things will be different in a state where there is not sin. Many of the ordinances that are required today or which are needful for people today, will not be needful or required during the Millennium, because conditioned have changed.

On to some unabashed speculation: As far as technology, computers, etc. Well, whatever, is what I say. I think that they will largely be useless because who needs these things when you have unfiltered access to God's power and the Holy Spirit? The power of a man made computer doesn't even show up in the same spectrum of power as compared to the Holy Ghost and what we can accomplish through its power. Perhaps when the Millennium first begins and we are still dealing with our old ways and getting use to the better stuff, we will have some semblance of things that we have now. Perhaps there will be many new inventions as some have speculated, but, I think any infrastructure that will exist during the Millennium will need to be rebuilt from scratch because all the stuff on the surface of the planet will have been burned up. Which is a good thing in my view. Will be nice to live on an Earth that has received its paradisiacal glory (not to be confused with celestial glory) where everything has been renewed.

-Finrock

Just to add, the scriptures say that not all will be resurrected until even after the Millennium. Also, since there will be Terrestrial beings, surely they will need ordinances performed to enter the Celestial Kingdom, including water baptism. If Christ had to do it, and all prophets since Adam, then Gospel ordinances are needed to fulfill all righteousness. Makes sense to me.

[cyclOps]

my comments in blue:

An interesting question that I have pondered sometimes is, how much real estate will the Lord preserve for the Millennium through the day of burning? Will it only be Temples?

I have often wondered, what will become of the computer systems with all the databases that we need, and all the family-history records, and all the Church historical records? Will special protection be given to these things to survive the day of burning?

I've often wondered what will become of all of my family historical records in the burning. I hope the Lord will preserve these things like he preserved the Book of Mormon plates, so we don't have to reconstruct them all by looking through a Urim and Thummim.

I've wondered the same thing. The scriptures teach us that the earth will be completely burned and renewed by fire and all man made things will be essentially burned as stubble.Michelle is right, you are mixing up two events. The earth will not be 'completely burned and renewed by fire' at the second coming of Christ, at his coming, the wicked will be burned as stubble, but the righteous will be preserved.Not only that, the scriptures teach that there will be no temple in the New Jerusalem.To read it this way ignores our modern revelation that there will be a temple in the New Jerusalem--Joseph Smith planned a temple complex. I believe Revelation 21:22 is referring to when the earth would be celestialized, that comes at the end of the Millenium. Do we really need to rely on computers during the Millennium anyway? Isn't the promise that the Holy Spirit will bring all things to our rememberance and more?Yes, I think we will use computers and we will also have lots of help from the other side. I see no reason why we wouldn't use all the gifts and blessings God has bestowed on us in this technological age,
and continue to receive more.

Further, what will any temples be used for? What work?The same work they are used for now, though I think we may possibly be doing the second anointing ordinance by proxy as well. There are many references from church leaders that we will be doing temple work throughout the Millenium, but if you reject those references outside the canon of Scripture, then I can see why you wouldn't have any idea what we might use a temple for in the Millenium. I ask because, Christ will be here. No veil, so no need for symbolic representations of what has become a reality (Endowment Ceremony). All are born and from birth will have the Holy Spirit (will be endowed) and will be sealed. No need for water baptisms for them. We will have the keys of the resurrection, so no need for proxy work.I don't know where you get all this from, we will still have ordinances for the living and we will do ordinances for the dead. When Jesus appeared to the Nephites, the first thing he did was give his disciples power to baptize. He was there with them, yet he desired that all should be baptized, as the entrance into the covenant they would make with him and to receive the gift of the holy ghost, which is given through the laying on of hands. This is the doctrine of Christ--I see no reason why Jesus would do away with his own doctrine when there will be just as many living and to be living who will need it. The earth, as mentioned above, will receive its paradisiacal glory, it will be a temple. So, what work will require the physical temples during the Millennium?The world will be terrestrial, it does not become Celestialized until the end of the Millenium. Don't forget that Satan will be loosed for a little season before the final end of the world--it is not perfect during the Millenium, it is Terrestrial. And clearly the Temples will be needed for Temple work during the Millenium. That's their purpose and we'll need more of them.

-Finrock

Michelle gave you an excellent run down on these two events and how they would be different, did you consider that you just might have some erroneous notions and maybe look into the information she shared, or did you just blow her off? To me, it seemed from your response to her that you were blowing her off. However, what she explained to you IS LDS doctrine, and as such, those who believe LDS doctrine to be correct, will read the scriptures (including the scripture you shared from 2 Peter ) within that context.

In a nutshell here's the two events in question; LDS teachings are that at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, but the righteous saved. The earth enters a Terrestrial stage, with Jesus reigning on earth. The work in Temples, and the gospel continue through the Millenium, 1,000 years appx. Then, at the end of the Millenium, Satan is 'loosed' once again and after the great battle, the earth is THEN completely burned and passes away, is 'resurrected'----it turns into a sea of glass, as Joseph described a great urim and thummim, and receives it's Celestial glory returning to where God is in the Heavens and then those who inherit Celestial glory will live there.

I hope this helps clarify this.

Here are some quotes on this subject;

“The time is not far distant when great judgments will be poured out upon the wicked inhabitants of the earth. Every Prophet who has looked forward to our day has seen and predicted that the wicked would be destroyed. Their destruction means the destruction of Satan’s power. The righteous will be left, and because of their righteousness the Lord will have mercy upon them; they, exercising their agency in the right direction, will bring down His blessings upon them to such an extent that Satan will be bound” (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, 1:86–87).

When Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, he learned that America is the land of Zion which was given to Joseph and his children and that on this land the City Zion, or New Jerusalem, is to be built. He also learned that Jerusalem in Palestine is to be rebuilt and become a holy city. [3 Nephi 20:22; 21:20–29; Ether 13:1–12.] These two cities, one in the land of Zion and one in Palestine, are to become capitals for the kingdom of God during the millennium” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:71).
“That this work may be hastened so that all who believe, in the spirit world, may receive the benefit of deliverance, it is revealed that the great work of the Millennium shall be the work in the temples for the redemption of the dead; and then we hope to enjoy the benefits of revelation through the Urim and Thummim, or by such means as the Lord may reveal concerning those for whom the work shall be done, so that we may not work by chance, or by faith alone, without knowledge, but with the actual knowledge revealed unto us” (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 438).

Some members of the Church have an erroneous idea that when the millennium comes all of the people are going to be swept off the earth except righteous members of the Church. That is not so. There will be millions of people, Catholics, Protestants, agnostics, Mohammedans, people of all classes, and of all beliefs, still permitted to remain upon the face of the earth, but they will be those who have lived clean lives, those who have been free from wickedness and corruption. All who belong, by virtue of their good lives, to the terrestrial order, as well as those who have kept the celestial law, will remain upon the face of the earth during the millennium.
“Eventually, however, the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters do the sea. But there will be need for the preaching of the gospel, after the millennium is brought in, until all men are either converted or pass away” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:86–87).

“In that great change, or resurrection, which shall come to this earth, it shall be sanctified, celestialized and made a fit abode even for God the Father, who shall grace it with his presence. (D.C. 88:19.) Then shall the righteous, those who have become sanctified through the law of God, possess it for ever as their abode. This earth is destined to become the everlasting residence of its inhabitants who gain the glory of the celestial kingdom. It shall become in that day like the throne of God and shall shine forth with all the splendor and brightness of celestial glory in its eternal, sanctified and glorious state” (Smith, Way to Perfection, 351).

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of ... h?lang=eng

I'm not mixing two events. The scriptures I've referenced so far are speaking about when Jesus Christ returns again to usher in the Millennium. The Earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory, which is what I've already stated. I did not state that it will receive it's celestial glory. But, a careful study of the scriptures will reveal that all things will be burned on the surface of the Earth at the coming of Christ. Please see D&C 101 and 2 Peter 3, for references. There are other references as well.

I speculated that with the keys of the resurrection, proxy work seems obsolete. Why do proxy work when we can resurrect the people and have them be baptized themselves.

As far as the reference to there being no temple in the New Jerusalem, that is what the scripture says. Actually, it says that John did not see a temple there, but in context it seems pretty clear that there isn't a temple there. Because Joseph Smith had plans to build a temple during a time prior to the Millennium doesn't mean that it will be there after the Second Coming and during the Millennium.

The Millennial state will be different than any other period of Earth history. Your reference to Jesus appearing to the Nephites and calling apostles is largely irrelevant. During that period of time people where not born in to world where there was not wickedness. Children born during the Millennium don't need to be baptized because they will not have any sin. Not having any sin means that you have the Holy Ghost. The doctrine of Christ applies in situations when there are people who are sinful. If it applied to times when people were sinless, then little children would need to be baptized, for instance.

I agree that not every person will be destroyed. I never claimed otherwise, by the way, but nothing wrong with pointing out additional information. Just recognize that it isn't refuting anything that I've said or suggested in my posts.

Many things will be different in a state where there is not sin. Many of the ordinances that are required today or which are needful for people today, will not be needful or required during the Millennium, because conditioned have changed.

On to some unabashed speculation: As far as technology, computers, etc. Well, whatever, is what I say. I think that they will largely be useless because who needs these things when you have unfiltered access to God's power and the Holy Spirit? The power of a man made computer doesn't even show up in the same spectrum of power as compared to the Holy Ghost and what we can accomplish through its power. Perhaps when the Millennium first begins and we are still dealing with our old ways and getting use to the better stuff, we will have some semblance of things that we have now. Perhaps there will be many new inventions as some have speculated, but, I think any infrastructure that will exist during the Millennium will need to be rebuilt from scratch because all the stuff on the surface of the planet will have been burned up. Which is a good thing in my view. Will be nice to live on an Earth that has received its paradisiacal glory (not to be confused with celestial glory) where everything has been renewed.

-Finrock

Why was Jesus baptized? He had no sin.

Also, not everyone will be resurrected in the first resurrection so they still need proxy work done during the millennium.

Edit: It looks like Jonesy1982 already covered these two things, but they're true so I'll keep the post as a second witness.

[Finrock]

my comments in blue:

I've wondered the same thing. The scriptures teach us that the earth will be completely burned and renewed by fire and all man made things will be essentially burned as stubble.Michelle is right, you are mixing up two events. The earth will not be 'completely burned and renewed by fire' at the second coming of Christ, at his coming, the wicked will be burned as stubble, but the righteous will be preserved.Not only that, the scriptures teach that there will be no temple in the New Jerusalem.To read it this way ignores our modern revelation that there will be a temple in the New Jerusalem--Joseph Smith planned a temple complex. I believe Revelation 21:22 is referring to when the earth would be celestialized, that comes at the end of the Millenium. Do we really need to rely on computers during the Millennium anyway? Isn't the promise that the Holy Spirit will bring all things to our rememberance and more?Yes, I think we will use computers and we will also have lots of help from the other side. I see no reason why we wouldn't use all the gifts and blessings God has bestowed on us in this technological age,
and continue to receive more.

Further, what will any temples be used for? What work?The same work they are used for now, though I think we may possibly be doing the second anointing ordinance by proxy as well. There are many references from church leaders that we will be doing temple work throughout the Millenium, but if you reject those references outside the canon of Scripture, then I can see why you wouldn't have any idea what we might use a temple for in the Millenium. I ask because, Christ will be here. No veil, so no need for symbolic representations of what has become a reality (Endowment Ceremony). All are born and from birth will have the Holy Spirit (will be endowed) and will be sealed. No need for water baptisms for them. We will have the keys of the resurrection, so no need for proxy work.I don't know where you get all this from, we will still have ordinances for the living and we will do ordinances for the dead. When Jesus appeared to the Nephites, the first thing he did was give his disciples power to baptize. He was there with them, yet he desired that all should be baptized, as the entrance into the covenant they would make with him and to receive the gift of the holy ghost, which is given through the laying on of hands. This is the doctrine of Christ--I see no reason why Jesus would do away with his own doctrine when there will be just as many living and to be living who will need it. The earth, as mentioned above, will receive its paradisiacal glory, it will be a temple. So, what work will require the physical temples during the Millennium?The world will be terrestrial, it does not become Celestialized until the end of the Millenium. Don't forget that Satan will be loosed for a little season before the final end of the world--it is not perfect during the Millenium, it is Terrestrial. And clearly the Temples will be needed for Temple work during the Millenium. That's their purpose and we'll need more of them.

-Finrock

Michelle gave you an excellent run down on these two events and how they would be different, did you consider that you just might have some erroneous notions and maybe look into the information she shared, or did you just blow her off? To me, it seemed from your response to her that you were blowing her off. However, what she explained to you IS LDS doctrine, and as such, those who believe LDS doctrine to be correct, will read the scriptures (including the scripture you shared from 2 Peter ) within that context.

In a nutshell here's the two events in question; LDS teachings are that at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, but the righteous saved. The earth enters a Terrestrial stage, with Jesus reigning on earth. The work in Temples, and the gospel continue through the Millenium, 1,000 years appx. Then, at the end of the Millenium, Satan is 'loosed' once again and after the great battle, the earth is THEN completely burned and passes away, is 'resurrected'----it turns into a sea of glass, as Joseph described a great urim and thummim, and receives it's Celestial glory returning to where God is in the Heavens and then those who inherit Celestial glory will live there.

I hope this helps clarify this.

Here are some quotes on this subject;

“The time is not far distant when great judgments will be poured out upon the wicked inhabitants of the earth. Every Prophet who has looked forward to our day has seen and predicted that the wicked would be destroyed. Their destruction means the destruction of Satan’s power. The righteous will be left, and because of their righteousness the Lord will have mercy upon them; they, exercising their agency in the right direction, will bring down His blessings upon them to such an extent that Satan will be bound” (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, 1:86–87).

When Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, he learned that America is the land of Zion which was given to Joseph and his children and that on this land the City Zion, or New Jerusalem, is to be built. He also learned that Jerusalem in Palestine is to be rebuilt and become a holy city. [3 Nephi 20:22; 21:20–29; Ether 13:1–12.] These two cities, one in the land of Zion and one in Palestine, are to become capitals for the kingdom of God during the millennium” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:71).
“That this work may be hastened so that all who believe, in the spirit world, may receive the benefit of deliverance, it is revealed that the great work of the Millennium shall be the work in the temples for the redemption of the dead; and then we hope to enjoy the benefits of revelation through the Urim and Thummim, or by such means as the Lord may reveal concerning those for whom the work shall be done, so that we may not work by chance, or by faith alone, without knowledge, but with the actual knowledge revealed unto us” (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 438).

Some members of the Church have an erroneous idea that when the millennium comes all of the people are going to be swept off the earth except righteous members of the Church. That is not so. There will be millions of people, Catholics, Protestants, agnostics, Mohammedans, people of all classes, and of all beliefs, still permitted to remain upon the face of the earth, but they will be those who have lived clean lives, those who have been free from wickedness and corruption. All who belong, by virtue of their good lives, to the terrestrial order, as well as those who have kept the celestial law, will remain upon the face of the earth during the millennium.
“Eventually, however, the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters do the sea. But there will be need for the preaching of the gospel, after the millennium is brought in, until all men are either converted or pass away” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:86–87).

“In that great change, or resurrection, which shall come to this earth, it shall be sanctified, celestialized and made a fit abode even for God the Father, who shall grace it with his presence. (D.C. 88:19.) Then shall the righteous, those who have become sanctified through the law of God, possess it for ever as their abode. This earth is destined to become the everlasting residence of its inhabitants who gain the glory of the celestial kingdom. It shall become in that day like the throne of God and shall shine forth with all the splendor and brightness of celestial glory in its eternal, sanctified and glorious state” (Smith, Way to Perfection, 351).

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of ... h?lang=eng

I'm not mixing two events. The scriptures I've referenced so far are speaking about when Jesus Christ returns again to usher in the Millennium. The Earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory, which is what I've already stated. I did not state that it will receive it's celestial glory. But, a careful study of the scriptures will reveal that all things will be burned on the surface of the Earth at the coming of Christ. Please see D&C 101 and 2 Peter 3, for references. There are other references as well.

I speculated that with the keys of the resurrection, proxy work seems obsolete. Why do proxy work when we can resurrect the people and have them be baptized themselves.

As far as the reference to there being no temple in the New Jerusalem, that is what the scripture says. Actually, it says that John did not see a temple there, but in context it seems pretty clear that there isn't a temple there. Because Joseph Smith had plans to build a temple during a time prior to the Millennium doesn't mean that it will be there after the Second Coming and during the Millennium.

The Millennial state will be different than any other period of Earth history. Your reference to Jesus appearing to the Nephites and calling apostles is largely irrelevant. During that period of time people where not born in to world where there was not wickedness. Children born during the Millennium don't need to be baptized because they will not have any sin. Not having any sin means that you have the Holy Ghost. The doctrine of Christ applies in situations when there are people who are sinful. If it applied to times when people were sinless, then little children would need to be baptized, for instance.

I agree that not every person will be destroyed. I never claimed otherwise, by the way, but nothing wrong with pointing out additional information. Just recognize that it isn't refuting anything that I've said or suggested in my posts.

Many things will be different in a state where there is not sin. Many of the ordinances that are required today or which are needful for people today, will not be needful or required during the Millennium, because conditioned have changed.

On to some unabashed speculation: As far as technology, computers, etc. Well, whatever, is what I say. I think that they will largely be useless because who needs these things when you have unfiltered access to God's power and the Holy Spirit? The power of a man made computer doesn't even show up in the same spectrum of power as compared to the Holy Ghost and what we can accomplish through its power. Perhaps when the Millennium first begins and we are still dealing with our old ways and getting use to the better stuff, we will have some semblance of things that we have now. Perhaps there will be many new inventions as some have speculated, but, I think any infrastructure that will exist during the Millennium will need to be rebuilt from scratch because all the stuff on the surface of the planet will have been burned up. Which is a good thing in my view. Will be nice to live on an Earth that has received its paradisiacal glory (not to be confused with celestial glory) where everything has been renewed.

-Finrock

Why was Jesus baptized? He had no sin.

Also, not everyone will be resurrected in the first resurrection so they still need proxy work done during the millennium.

Edit: It looks like Jonesy1982 already covered these two things, but they're true so I'll keep the post as a second witness.

Why are children not baptized or if they die before the age of accountability, why aren't they proxy baptized?

Why do those who don't come forth in the first resurrection need proxy baptism or any baptism? The reason they aren't coming forth in the first resurrection is because they don't "qualify" for the Celestial Kingdom. So, they aren't going to the Celestial Kingdom and baptism is the gateway to the Celestial Kingdom.

-Finrock

[Jonesy]

Why are children not baptized or if they die before the age of accountability, why aren't they proxy baptized?

Why do those who don't come forth in the first resurrection need proxy baptism or any baptism? The reason they aren't coming forth in the first resurrection is because they don't "qualify" for the Celestial Kingdom. So, they aren't going to the Celestial Kingdom and baptism is the gateway to the Celestial Kingdom.

-Finrock

I'd like to clarify my position.

First, I think children are in a position altogether different. As children are given a priesthood blessing when they are born, their names are entered into the records. Likewise, I think all children's names will be entered into the records by priesthood authority. That's another subject. I don't, however, understand your position that that excuses others not to be baptized.

But for those who are capable or have been capable in this life of receiving and accepting the gospel law, which is the first step, must do so by baptism. I think the scriptures emphatically state this.

I think you could be right about those not of the first resurrection. I'll have to look into it more. However, D&C 128:18 states the absolute necessity of these proxy baptisms before the first resurrection and Second Coming: "It is the baptism for the dead. For we without them cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect. Neither can they nor we be made perfect without those who have died in the gospel also; for it is necessary in the ushering in of the dispensation of the fulness of times, which dispensation is now beginning to usher in, that a whole and complete and perfect union, and welding together of dispensations, and keys, and powers, and glories should take place, and be revealed from the days of Adam even to the present time."

I think all the work that needs to be done that couldn't be performed by us, could possibly be performed by one-mighty-and-strong type. We'll see. Regardless, you can hear the angst from Joseph Smith about the Saints doing as much proxy baptism as they are inspired to do and the importance of it.

Words of Joseph Smith:

But what is the object of this important mission or how is it to be fulfilled, The keys are to be deliverd5 the spirit of Elijah is to Come, The gospel to be esstablished the Saints of God gatherd Zion built up, & the Saints6 to Come up as Saviors on mount Zion7 but how are they to become Saviors on Mount Zion by building thair temples erecting their Baptismal fonts & going forth & receiving all the ordinances, Baptisms, Confirmations, washings anointings ordinations & sealing powers8 upon our heads in behalf of all9 our Progenitors who are dead & redeem them that they may Come forth in the first resurrection & be exhalted to thrones of glory with us, & here in is the chain that binds the hearts of the fathers to the Children, & the Children to the Fathers which fulfills the mission of Elijah & I would to God that this temple was now done that we might go into it & go to work & improve our time & make use of the seals10 while they are on earth &-the Saints have none to much time to save & redeem their dead, & gather together their living relatives that they may be saved also, before the earth will be smitten & the Consumption decreed falls upon the world11 & I would advise all the Saints to go to with their might & gather together all their living relatives to this place that they may be sealed & saved that they may be prepared against the day that the destroying angel goes forth & if the whole Church should go to with all their might to save their dead seal their posterity & gather their living friends & spend none of their time in behalf of the world they would hardly get through before night would Come when no man Could work12 & my ownly trouble at the present time is concerning ourselves that the Saints will be divided & broken up & scattered before we get our Salvation13 Secure for thei[r] is so many fools in the world for the devil to operate upon it gives him the advantage often times, The question is frequently asked Can we not be saved without going through with all thes ordinances &c141 would answer No not the fulness of Salvation, Jesus said their was many mansions in his fathers house & he would go & prepare a place for them.15 House here named should have been translated (Kingdom)16 & any person who is exhalted to the highest mansion has to abide a Celestial law & the whole law to[o]

[Zowieink]

Sarah, sorry I don't get on the forum much any more. I work with the temple department, physical facilities, and historic department (in regards to historic buildings). Certain temples are considered as "Millennial". Many will be desecrated, destroyed, etc. and although the land is still sacred ground, the temple will need to be rebuilt or majorly repaired to be useable.

Millennial temples will weather the storm, although they too may need some repairs, but they shall stand through the mess. I questioned the term "Millennial Temple" when the Mesa Temple had Elder Costa from SLC down for a review of the building. The above is what was related to me from the temple president later that same day.

[Zowieink]

Also, in regards to the actual work in the temples. I have heard that the millennium is for the other 6 dispensations, first, then those of our dispensation whose family members never did the work but were members of the Church. Can anyone verify/discount this with doctrine?

[Sunain]

Also, in regards to the actual work in the temples. I have heard that the millennium is for the other 6 dispensations, first, then those of our dispensation whose family members never did the work but were members of the Church. Can anyone verify/discount this with doctrine?

Living members always have priority. It will probably take us most of the Millennium to complete the temple work for everyone including the previous 6 dispensations. There will be many that have their work already done from temples from their time that we don't have records for but they do in heaven.