Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

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sajor
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Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by sajor »

Does anyone know the reason why temple ordinances for deceased persons who were born before 1500 AD must be authorized by the Family History Department?

This does not apply to those born in China, Korea, Japan.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by Silver Pie »

I've never heard that policy before. I wonder where it came from (i.e. why?).

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gkearney
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by gkearney »

The reason, I believe, is the wide spread use of false genealogies which were and sadly are are widely propagated in European family history. This resulted in everyone was claiming to be related to royalty to archive social status in the highly class conscious world of European culture prior to the second world war. It was commonplace for some "genealogist" to "cook the books" as it were for people.

Asian cultures were not so impacted and their records were maintained by more reliable activists who didn't have this ax to grind. For example in Asian families you find family lines that go back many thousands of years but you do not find extravagant claims such as direct links to Adam and Eve or relationship to Christ or his family in them. Such claims are always a red flag to the Family History Department as they are almost without question an indication that the research has been tainted by made up genealogies.

My family has done the work for a handful of family members born before 1500 in each case we were able to produce Masonic records for the person which the Family History Department seems to be willing to accept as reliable.

OCDMOM
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by OCDMOM »

Yes, gkearney is right. I heard that the reason you need permission is most of it is already done. That way it won't be repeated.

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inho
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by inho »

If you have European royalty in your pedigree, it is not uncommon to find genealogies that take go all the way back to Adam and Eve. The problem is, just like gkearney said, that they are more or less fictional. They may include Nordic deities or other mythological figures and connect them to biblical names. I believe that Odin and Thor and other mythological people have been baptized several times.

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gclayjr
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by gclayjr »

Yes, gkearney is right. I heard that the reason you need permission is most of it is already done. That way it won't be repeated.
Yes gkearney is right. I remember a family reunion where my mom proudly showed us a genealogy chart that proved that we were descendants of Jesus Christ. Interestingly, this was not that long after the movie the Da Vinci Code had come out.

I pointed out to her, that while our church has no theology that Jesus Christ wasn't married, we do not have any that he was either. This Genealogy would change everything. She continued to insist upon the accuracy of this genealogy, so I called Salt Lake.

They confined everything gkearney said, including the better reliability of the genealogies of some far eastern countries, I guess to give themselves more status, many European royal families invented impressive genealogies which are not true.

Good thing we have that millennium coming when we will get help from the other side sorting this stuff out, huh

Regards,

George Clay

EdGoble
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by EdGoble »

gclayjr wrote: June 6th, 2017, 5:54 am
Yes, gkearney is right. I heard that the reason you need permission is most of it is already done. That way it won't be repeated.
Yes gkearney is right. I remember a family reunion where my mom proudly showed us a genealogy chart that proved that we were descendants of Jesus Christ. Interestingly, this was not that long after the movie the Da Vinci Code had come out.

I pointed out to her, that while our church has no theology that Jesus Christ wasn't married, we do not have any that he was either. This Genealogy would change everything. She continued to insist upon the accuracy of this genealogy, so I called Salt Lake.

They confined everything gkearney said, including the better reliability of the genealogies of some far eastern countries, I guess to give themselves more status, many European royal families invented impressive genealogies which are not true.

Good thing we have that millennium coming when we will get help from the other side sorting this stuff out, huh

Regards,

George Clay
Its interesting that the Family History Library in Salt Lake a few years ago had a Polynesian line hung up on the wall that equated Hawaii Loa of tradition to Hagoth. I believe this is so personally, but there is no evidence or revelation to prove that it is so.

I have a chart with my linage back to Adam going through King Arthur and King Uther Pendragon. I kid you not. I hope nobody did ordinances for these mythological figures or sealed the family to them.

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kittycat51
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by kittycat51 »

I am currently serving as Indexing coordinator for our ward though I am asked constantly for help with family history because that is my passion and a talent...if you index and come across any record previous to around 1650, they ask you NOT to index it. I honestly believe that most family trees beyond 1750 is hard to prove, and is many times purely speculation or guess work. You might be in the right area but you can come up with several "James Ratcliffe's" and not be correct on the RIGHT one. I see SO much incorrect family history work being done I just want to cry. I see trees on Ancestry that make me cringe. I believe that the first 100 years of the millennium will be spent FIXING all of the many mistakes.

My advice to people is to not insist on pushing so far back, but rather fill in those "distant cousins"...Like your g-g-g-grandfather's siblings, children and grandchildren etc. (that sounds funny :)) ) I see family history as a web that is so interconnected to other people. If you take our direct lines, they are just strands hanging straight down so to speak. Its when we really spread out to our "distant cousins" as Elder Cook states, that they become connected like a web, become tight-nit with no broken links. Work on what we know or can PROVE. (And then still there are many who can't get it right #-o )

gardener4life
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by gardener4life »

Interestingly enough, some geneology lines in asian countries like those stated above, china, korea, japan can REALLY go far back.

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Yahtzee
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by Yahtzee »

Wait!! Are you saying there's a chance I'm not related to Charlamagne????!!!!! :(( :((

;)

JohnnyL
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by JohnnyL »

gardener4life wrote: July 25th, 2017, 6:58 pm Interestingly enough, some geneology lines in asian countries like those stated above, china, korea, japan can REALLY go far back.
The problem is getting from now to then, though it's a minor problem in some places due to incredibly accurate and easy to read government records. You just need to search through a shelf of huge books to find who you're looking for. :(

And then you have the Cultural Revolution in China, which destroyed all kinds of genealogical records.

sajor
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by sajor »

I have waited more than five months for a response from the family history department for an ordinance of a family member and no response so far. When they answered the petition for the same one responded that they would answer it in a timely manner. I did not expect an immediate response, but please, five months seems to me sufficient to at least indicate that they are working on it or that there is some problem to solve.

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kittycat51
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by kittycat51 »

sajor wrote: August 17th, 2017, 1:01 pm I have waited more than five months for a response from the family history department for an ordinance of a family member and no response so far. When they answered the petition for the same one responded that they would answer it in a timely manner. I did not expect an immediate response, but please, five months seems to me sufficient to at least indicate that they are working on it or that there is some problem to solve.
That's strange. They are usually really good to get back to you within a couple of days. ASK again. Your request may have gotten misplaced.

jdtech
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by jdtech »

sajor wrote: August 17th, 2017, 1:01 pm I have waited more than five months for a response from the family history department for an ordinance of a family member and no response so far. When they answered the petition for the same one responded that they would answer it in a timely manner. I did not expect an immediate response, but please, five months seems to me sufficient to at least indicate that they are working on it or that there is some problem to solve.
Did you get a ticket number for the request you sent in? Call again, and if you don't get a response within a week or two, PM me - perhaps I can help.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Ordinances for persons born before 1500.

Post by BeNotDeceived »

EdGoble wrote: June 6th, 2017, 10:02 am
Its interesting that the Family History Library in Salt Lake a few years ago had a Polynesian line hung up on the wall that equated Hawaii Loa of tradition to Hagoth. I believe this is so personally, but there is no evidence or revelation to prove that it is so.

I have a chart with my linage back to Adam going through King Arthur and King Uther Pendragon. I kid you not. I hope nobody did ordinances for these mythological figures or sealed the family to them.
This map helped me better understand the 'nesias. :-B

Image

Anyone have said wall hanging? :-?

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