Sacrament symbolism

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drtanner
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Sacrament symbolism

Post by drtanner »

Preparing for a lesson on the sacrament and would love any insights you may have on symbolism connected with the sacrament. Anyone have any good Joseph smith quotes on the sacrament or history of the sacrament in the church? Here are some questions I'm pondering:

Significance of the difference in the prayer of the bread and water

Significance of Prayer addressed to God and "the eternal father"

Symbolism of the bread, cloth, water, alter, preparation, priest, anything else.

If we are to recite it word for word what Is the significance of each word, Why the word "O"

True purpose of the sacrament.

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Alaris
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

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The bread represents the physical, temporal, and lesser law. There are three promises made by us signifying the lesser law which is more spelled out for us (Moses)

The water symbolizes the higher law. One promise to remember Him is enough as the two great commandments encompasses the 10.

My father in law gave a great lesson on this. I'll ask him for it.

brianj
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

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News came out last weekend about the church making a change to the French language sacrament prayers. The change is subtle and needs to be explained to people who aren't native Francophiles or very familiar with the language. Read about the change in words used and you'll find something significant about the sacrament to help with your lesson.

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inho
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by inho »

brianj wrote: June 5th, 2017, 9:47 pm News came out last weekend about the church making a change to the French language sacrament prayers. The change is subtle and needs to be explained to people who aren't native Francophiles or very familiar with the language. Read about the change in words used and you'll find something significant about the sacrament to help with your lesson.
http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Makes-M ... es/s/85521

That is a subtle change indeed. Similar changes have happened before when scriptures have been retranslated in other languages. Sometimes the changes have been more significant. If I recall correctly, the old Finnish version translated the word 'willing' with a Finnish word, which meaning was more like 'ready'. I wonder how that affect Finnish people; it is quite different to be ready to take upon the name of the Son than be willing to do so.

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oneClimbs
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

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Last edited by oneClimbs on June 6th, 2017, 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by Robin Hood »

When the sacrament is laid out on the table and covered with a cloth, it actually looks like a body.
Also, I think it is significant that we break the bread as part of the ordinance.

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oneClimbs
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by oneClimbs »

Robin Hood wrote: June 6th, 2017, 9:19 am When the sacrament is laid out on the table and covered with a cloth, it actually looks like a body.
Also, I think it is significant that we break the bread as part of the ordinance.
Carry that symbolism further. What happens to the body? The cloth is removed, and the body rises from the altar and comes out among the people. Everyone then partakes of that body and it becomes part of them. Every Sabbath day, we witness the resurrection of Christ and accept him into our minds, hearts, and even our bowels as the bread and wine (water) pass first by our minds, then past our hearts, and are then taken into our whole bodies as nourishment through the bowels.

brianj
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

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5tev3 wrote: June 6th, 2017, 9:33 am Carry that symbolism further. What happens to the body? The cloth is removed, and the body rises from the altar and comes out among the people. Everyone then partakes of that body and it becomes part of them. Every Sabbath day, we witness the resurrection of Christ and accept him into our minds, hearts, and even our bowels as the bread and wine (water) pass first by our minds, then past our hearts, and are then taken into our whole bodies as nourishment through the bowels.
I never thought about it that way. This is an amazing insight! Thank you for sharing it. And I hope you don't mind me passing it along!

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Jeremy
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by Jeremy »

It's not a renewal of baptismal covenants.

"have HIS spirit..."

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brlenox
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by brlenox »

In the downloads section I uploaded a MSWORD document that I did a few years ago on the sacrament. It has many key quotes. It is based on a technique of study that I use often based on the Joseph Smith statement that by proving contraries truth is manifest. I call it a spectrum of truth. On the left side is things that are more in line with a do not partake mentality and then on the right is a do take mentality. The middle is an area to consider each side with a bottom summary. Ignore the final page as I was just talking to myself....Let me know if you find it of value and or your thoughts.

Here is the link:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 26&t=45701

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inho
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by inho »

Jeremy wrote: June 7th, 2017, 6:29 pm It's not a renewal of baptismal covenants.
That is what Elder Andersen said:
viewtopic.php?t=39044&f=14

freedomforall
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by freedomforall »

Matt 26
26 ¶ And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; (GR All of you drink from it.)

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, (GR covenant) which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Here is the correct version:
JST Matt. 26:22
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread and brake it, and blessed it, and gave to his disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is in remembrance of my body which I give a ransom for you.

Heb. 9:16 (15–22)
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Bread
Moroni 4:3
3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son (see JST Matt. 26:22), and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

We cannot remove the words "are willing to."

Are willing to take his name upon us
Are willing to always remember him
Are willing to keep his commandments
So that we may always have his spirit with us.

Water
Moroni 5:2
2 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee, in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

We cannot remove the word "may."

None of us can attest with surety to God that we keep all the commandments, all of the time. Nor can we attest that we always remember him. We would be lying.

Now for the "O"

Read D&C 109, therein one can see the usage of "O" numerous times. I think it is nothing more than a shorter way of spelling "Oh."
drtanner wrote:True purpose of the sacrament.
The significance is written within the Sacramental prayers. Moro 6:6 corroborates.
Moroni 6:6
6 And they did meet together oft to partake of bread and wine, in remembrance of the Lord Jesus.

diligently seeking
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by diligently seeking »

More often than I would like to admit, I let mortality... prove to be a formidable foe to me by not being as focused on Christ as I should... Taking the sacrament and the communion I have with God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost during that moment is a beautiful fix. As I prepare before hand in solemnity of spirit to have a heart and mind--- full of gratitude and awareness for Jesus and his infinite atonement (having a prayer of charity to be filled with and a prayer to be free of enmity) I love the tenderness I feel for Christ-- singing the sacramental song. Through what I understand the bread and water to represent during the passing and partaking of these emblems with my head bowed and eyes closed I praise and worship Christ for what his broken / torn body and spilt blood means and has meant to me. Expressions of gratitude and love for his Life Ministry and atonement are shared in inspired ways for me in prayer. Often times if not every time-- I long to stay in that state of prayer / communion but alas the member of the bishopric will stand and thank and excuse the arronic priesthood for blessing the sacrament. A beautiful renewal / refreshing of body and spirit comes from for partaking as we should vs going through the motions.

"The things of God are of deep import; and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God." Joseph Smith Jr

Finrock
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by Finrock »

There have been many interesting/good thoughts.

So, how do we move beyond the symbolism? Or, is the sacrament just about a symbolic representation?

If a symbol of sacrament means X, then how does one actualize or make real X?

-Finrock

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oneClimbs
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by oneClimbs »

inho wrote: June 8th, 2017, 3:33 am
Jeremy wrote: June 7th, 2017, 6:29 pm It's not a renewal of baptismal covenants.
That is what Elder Andersen said:
viewtopic.php?t=39044&f=14
Agreed, thanks to Elder Andersen for that. There is criticism that 8 is too young of an age to make baptismal covenants. I'd argue that 18 is probably too young and maybe 30 as well. 70 might even be too young, but only if one's premise is that full and complete understanding is necessary to make covenants. Covenants that are binding contracts executed with no mercy. I think we'd all agree that this premise is flawed.

I don't see the sacrament as a "renewing" of a previous covenant. While I don't know if I have the right language to explain my thoughts on it, the closest I can get is by saying that each week, I do not partake of the flesh and blood of Christ for the sake of a covenant I made at 8 years old. I covenant with God anew, today, as the person I have become and am at this current time, that I am willing to keep the commandments of Christ and take his name upon myself and all that this implies as I understand it at this time.

It is a very present thing, it is a now thing. I'm not renewing a previous covenant that I made as a person that I no longer am. I've learned more, I've become someone different, and I covenant as that person, now and today. This is precisely why we "meet together OFT to partake of bread and wine, in remembrance of the Lord Jesus." (Moroni 6:6) and why Jesus said, "And if ye shall ALWAYS do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock." (3 Nephi 18:12)

It is a recognition of our constant growth, and constant need to be "nourished by the good word of God" (Moroni 6:4). We take in to our minds so much of the ideologies, philosophies, and precepts of men that poison our minds, that we need the nourishment the Mind of God brings that expands our souls.

If we take seriously that covenant we make on the Sabbath day. If we are truly willing and demonstrate it not just in those few minutes where we struggle to meditate while the trays go around and we wrestle wiggly kids, but every moment of every day until we meet again at that altar, then God's promises will come to pass in our lives.

When a child crosses the line and needs discipline, are we willing to handle the situation in the name of Christ? When we are in traffic and someone cuts us off are we willing to respond in the name of Christ? When we are online browsing content and images that were created to stir up sexual urges come across our path will we respond in the name of Christ? When patience with our spouse and family members is tried will we respond in the name of Christ? When our calling and people at church or work or school or in the government do things we do not agree with, will we respond in the name of Christ? When someone injures us, steals from us, kills, rapes, abuses or causes pain in any degree to us, people we love or strangers we empathize with, will we respond in the name of Christ to show that we are willing, ALWAYS, in all ways, to keep his commandments and take his name upon ourselves? Will we only follow his footsteps as they go to and fro serving and healing? Will they follow him to Caiaphas' feet to be slandered, blindfolded, beaten and spit upon? Will the follow him to be scourged, to be crucified and mocked, excommunicated and executed?

Or do we only intend to follow when it is comfortable for us? I am not saying that I am such a Saint, only that this is what I understand is expected of one.

Finrock
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by Finrock »

The idea of the Sacrament is that we are to receive the presence of Christ and to be filled with His spirit. All of the symbols point to this idea of Christ being with us and we with Him. It is Christ who delivered us from sin and death. It is Christ who makes us free. It is Christ who saves all mankind and all of creation is delivered and saved because of Christ.

The way we make the Sacrament more than just about symbols, is to follow the injunction found in the scriptures. We are commanded to bring a gift of sacrifice to the altar and the sacrifice that is required of us is of a broken heart and a contrite spirit, fully repenting of our sins, and being humble. In such a condition, we are ready to receive Christ. The sacrament can be a time when we in reality "commune" with Christ and receive His spirit. It is also a way for us to remember Christ and His life and to be grateful to God and His Son for the great and last blood sacrifice that Christ offered when He gave His body and His blood to save all mankind and all of creation.

"Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift."

We can't receive Christ if we don't have a broken heart and a contrite spirit. We can't receive Christ if we aren't humble. We can't receive Christ if we haven't repented of all our sins. These are the gifts that we must bring to the Sacrament alter if we are to fulfill the symbols and have Christ present with us and we with Him.

-Finrock

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oneClimbs
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by oneClimbs »

Finrock wrote: June 8th, 2017, 2:16 pmThe way we make the Sacrament more than just about symbols...
The symbols are there to illustrate the benefit we receive for making the covenant.

Baptism involves immersion in water and coming forth to point to a glorified resurrection. The sacrament has many symbols that are also related to this resurrection but help us stay focused as we grow. There isn't any immersion but there is an altar and, yeah, an altar implies that you bring something. In our case, the lamb, like the ram in the thicket has already been provided in Christ. We need only bring a broken and willing heart as you suggested.

The endowment and sealing involve covenants and symbols as well that also point to promises. I'm just saying that the symbols are not decorative, they illustrate the terms of the covenant. Modern contracts use legal language, God's covenants are acted out, they feel more literal than words on a page. That's because God wants us to experience them that way.

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Alaris
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by Alaris »

drtanner wrote: June 4th, 2017, 10:14 pm Preparing for a lesson on the sacrament and would love any insights you may have on symbolism connected with the sacrament. Anyone have any good Joseph smith quotes on the sacrament or history of the sacrament in the church? Here are some questions I'm pondering:

Significance of the difference in the prayer of the bread and water

Significance of Prayer addressed to God and "the eternal father"

Symbolism of the bread, cloth, water, alter, preparation, priest, anything else.

If we are to recite it word for word what Is the significance of each word, Why the word "O"

True purpose of the sacrament.
As promised, I attached an analysis of comparison of the two Sacrament Prayers. Sorry for the delay!
Attachments
Sacrament Prayer Analysis.JPG
Sacrament Prayer Analysis.JPG (124.85 KiB) Viewed 2149 times

freedomforall
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by freedomforall »

5tev3 wrote: June 8th, 2017, 1:40 pm
inho wrote: June 8th, 2017, 3:33 am
Jeremy wrote: June 7th, 2017, 6:29 pm It's not a renewal of baptismal covenants.
That is what Elder Andersen said:
viewtopic.php?t=39044&f=14
Agreed, thanks to Elder Andersen for that. There is criticism that 8 is too young of an age to make baptismal covenants. I'd argue that 18 is probably too young and maybe 30 as well. 70 might even be too young, but only if one's premise is that full and complete understanding is necessary to make covenants. Covenants that are binding contracts executed with no mercy. I think we'd all agree that this premise is flawed.

I don't see the sacrament as a "renewing" of a previous covenant. While I don't know if I have the right language to explain my thoughts on it, the closest I can get is by saying that each week, I do not partake of the flesh and blood of Christ for the sake of a covenant I made at 8 years old. I covenant with God anew, today, as the person I have become and am at this current time, that I am willing to keep the commandments of Christ and take his name upon myself and all that this implies as I understand it at this time.

It is a very present thing, it is a now thing. I'm not renewing a previous covenant that I made as a person that I no longer am. I've learned more, I've become someone different, and I covenant as that person, now and today. This is precisely why we "meet together OFT to partake of bread and wine, in remembrance of the Lord Jesus." (Moroni 6:6) and why Jesus said, "And if ye shall ALWAYS do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock." (3 Nephi 18:12)

It is a recognition of our constant growth, and constant need to be "nourished by the good word of God" (Moroni 6:4). We take in to our minds so much of the ideologies, philosophies, and precepts of men that poison our minds, that we need the nourishment the Mind of God brings that expands our souls.

If we take seriously that covenant we make on the Sabbath day. If we are truly willing and demonstrate it not just in those few minutes where we struggle to meditate while the trays go around and we wrestle wiggly kids, but every moment of every day until we meet again at that altar, then God's promises will come to pass in our lives.

When a child crosses the line and needs discipline, are we willing to handle the situation in the name of Christ? When we are in traffic and someone cuts us off are we willing to respond in the name of Christ? When we are online browsing content and images that were created to stir up sexual urges come across our path will we respond in the name of Christ? When patience with our spouse and family members is tried will we respond in the name of Christ? When our calling and people at church or work or school or in the government do things we do not agree with, will we respond in the name of Christ? When someone injures us, steals from us, kills, rapes, abuses or causes pain in any degree to us, people we love or strangers we empathize with, will we respond in the name of Christ to show that we are willing, ALWAYS, in all ways, to keep his commandments and take his name upon ourselves? Will we only follow his footsteps as they go to and fro serving and healing? Will they follow him to Caiaphas' feet to be slandered, blindfolded, beaten and spit upon? Will the follow him to be scourged, to be crucified and mocked, excommunicated and executed?

Or do we only intend to follow when it is comfortable for us? I am not saying that I am such a Saint, only that this is what I understand is expected of one.
3 Nephi 9:22
22 Therefore, whoso repenteth and cometh unto me as a little child, him will I receive, for of such is the kingdom of God. Behold, for such I have laid down my life, and have taken it up again; therefore repent, and come unto me ye ends of the earth, and be saved

Mark 10:15
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Mosiah 3:19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

3 Ne. 11:37 (37–38)
37 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.
38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.

Therefore, no matter our age from age 8, it behooves us to remain as a child as explained in Mosiah 3:19

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brlenox
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by brlenox »

alaris wrote: June 8th, 2017, 5:12 pm

As promised, I attached an analysis of comparison of the two Sacrament Prayers. Sorry for the delay!
Alaris, when you performed this effort was there anything that stood out to you as significant?

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Alaris
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by Alaris »

brlenox wrote: June 9th, 2017, 8:02 am
alaris wrote: June 8th, 2017, 5:12 pm

As promised, I attached an analysis of comparison of the two Sacrament Prayers. Sorry for the delay!
Alaris, when you performed this effort was there anything that stood out to you as significant?
The first prayer representing the lesser law / body / resurrection - the promised reward given to all beings who kept their first estate versus the second prayer representing the higher law, the atonement - the path to keeping the second estate. There are some tremendous posts in this thread. I enjoyed your word document as well. I never thought of the sacrament covering as a death shroud - I won't ever forget that!

One other point that I am not sure anyone has shared yet. We learn line upon line. Here a little and there a little - just as the Savior did. When we partake, we only take one little bit and one little sip at a time.

FFA left a nice post in the 7 levels thread linked to a blog that says our cells regenerate every 7 years, which is apparently true after a quick google. So mathematically, I wonder how much the sacrament we partake becomes a part of us! Perhaps there is some mathematical symbolism there (apart from the wholeness / completeness number 7) on just how long it takes to become like the Savior.

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brlenox
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by brlenox »

alaris wrote: June 11th, 2017, 12:25 am
brlenox wrote: June 9th, 2017, 8:02 am
alaris wrote: June 8th, 2017, 5:12 pm

As promised, I attached an analysis of comparison of the two Sacrament Prayers. Sorry for the delay!
Alaris, when you performed this effort was there anything that stood out to you as significant?
The first prayer representing the lesser law / body / resurrection - the promised reward given to all beings who kept their first estate versus the second prayer representing the higher law, the atonement - the path to keeping the second estate. There are some tremendous posts in this thread. I enjoyed your word document as well. I never thought of the sacrament covering as a death shroud - I won't ever forget that!

One other point that I am not sure anyone has shared yet. We learn line upon line. Here a little and there a little - just as the Savior did. When we partake, we only take one little bit and one little sip at a time.

FFA left a nice post in the 7 levels thread linked to a blog that says our cells regenerate every 7 years, which is apparently true after a quick google. So mathematically, I wonder how much the sacrament we partake becomes a part of us! Perhaps there is some mathematical symbolism there (apart from the wholeness / completeness number 7) on just how long it takes to become like the Savior.
Very good, interesting observations. Thank you.

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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: June 4th, 2017, 10:52 pm The bread represents the physical, temporal, and lesser law. There are three promises made by us signifying the lesser law which is more spelled out for us (Moses)

The water symbolizes the higher law. One promise to remember Him is enough as the two great commandments encompasses the 10.

My father in law gave a great lesson on this. I'll ask him for it.
Such a simple topic how is there so much confusion!! The sacrament replaced the law of sacrifice it does not represent any lesser law...

The bread represents the body the works we do. Physical body give us power to do works.
The shedding of blood represents shedding of our mortal weakness or overcoming sin and temptation.

By taking the sacrament we acknowledge the works of the Saviour and Him descending below all things i.e overcoming all moral weakness and every temptation. We covenant to follow the example and do he same.

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Alaris
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by Alaris »

Spaced_Out wrote: June 11th, 2017, 7:57 pm
alaris wrote: June 4th, 2017, 10:52 pm The bread represents the physical, temporal, and lesser law. There are three promises made by us signifying the lesser law which is more spelled out for us (Moses)

The water symbolizes the higher law. One promise to remember Him is enough as the two great commandments encompasses the 10.

My father in law gave a great lesson on this. I'll ask him for it.
Such a simple topic how is there so much confusion!! The sacrament replaced the law of sacrifice it does not represent any lesser law...

The bread represents the body the works we do. Physical body give us power to do works.
The shedding of blood represents shedding of our mortal weakness or overcoming sin and temptation.

By taking the sacrament we acknowledge the works of the Savior and Him descending below all things i.e overcoming all moral weakness and every temptation. We covenant to follow the example and do he same.
Is it better to misunderstand the sacrament and love thy neighbor or to understand the breadth, width, depth, and scope of its "simplicity" and insult thy neighbor? One is called hypocrisy. Yet sadly, neither is the case here for you Spaced_Out. Again dropping an insult bomb in a thread full of the spirit and learning - perhaps you should ask yourself why you are here.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Sacrament symbolism

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: June 11th, 2017, 9:03 pm Is it better to misunderstand the sacrament and love thy neighbor or to understand the breadth, width, depth, and scope of its "simplicity" and insult thy neighbor?
In order to love mankind or another being one has to first love themselves first, I do neither and am incapable of such a strange concept of love...
So I am now more confused than in your original posting..

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