Holy crap? A word about grace.

[marc]

I still read on the internet (Facebook, blogs, etc) about members of the church who do not understand grace. Christianity in general believes that we are saved by grace. We Mormons tend to think we are saved by our works (baptism, endowments, etc, etc) and we generally err in thinking and doing the same things the ancient Israelites did concerning performances and ordinances. Nephi understood well when he said it is by grace that we are saved after all we can do. Jesus Christ told us exactly what He wants us to do when He delivered His sermon on the mount. We do not have the capacity to save ourselves by our own works or as Paul said to the Ephesians: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

And yet James declared in his epistle, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works...But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. So is it works that save us or grace? Again, works do not save us, but we show by our works that we are willing to become His disciples and to keep His sayings. And His grace is sufficient for those who choose His path. It is straight and narrow and few be there that find it. Few be there that seek it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

The Hebrew word for repent (teshuvah) means to return. Jesus wants us all to stop wandering after our worldly ways and return to Him. This is an act of faith as is turning the other cheek, loving your enemies, and keeping all His sayings. Or else, "why call ye me Lord and do not the things, which I say?" In other words, to put it more simply, we can reword Jesus' grace to mean His mercy and love and compassion and kindness. Heaven is a society where people act this way and treat each other this way. Here on earth, generally speaking, we treat each other like crap. We are all full of crap. Some people's crap is mild, some harsh, some evil, but we all treat one another with all manner of crap and crappiness. That's why the Lord gave the Israelites the commandments. They tell us how to stop treating others like crap. Those who commit adultery treat their spouses and loved ones like crap. If you steal, you just treated the person you stole from like crap. If we were to be saved in our crappy condition, we would turn heaven into the same crappy world we created here on earth. The world we live in is so fallen because of all the crap that has been dished out since Adam and Eve. And no unclean thing can dwell with God lest heaven be filled with crap.

This is why Jesus Christ came down to show us a better way. In His condescension, He taught us how not to be crappy towards others and He taught us how to suffer everyone else's crap. The Romans knew how to dish out some serious crap, too! That is why he said blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy etc. We have to learn to live like heavenly beings if we are to become heavenly. Along the way, we struggle to do so as we practice to perfect ourselves. But because we make mistakes (sins), we are subject to God's justice. It is Jesus Christ's sacrifice to suffer the most horrendous treatment that makes it possible to purchase us with His blood. And because HE paid our debt, He gets to claim the right of MERCY. And if we do what He requires of us (which teaches us to stop being crappy people), becoming meek, humble, merciful, kind, gentle, longsuffering, etc, THEN is His GRACE sufficient, or in other words, the MERCY with which He claims us. So it is His grace (mercy) that has claim upon us to save us and not our own works that save us, which if we tried to do, we would fall miserably short forever being subject to justice only, having already sinned when first becoming accountable.

[drtanner]

Unless we allow grace to change us it hasn't really accomplished much in terms of salvation. But what can we really do? One thing:

Alma 24:11 And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain—

[marc]

2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

His mercy is indeed sufficient for those who do all that He requires.

[eddie]

My Grace is Sufficient, by Brad Wilcox.

[marc]

My Grace is Sufficient, by Brad Wilcox.

I've seen that video a couple times in the past. Brad Wilcox seems like a nice, genuine guy.

[Alaris]

This is why Jesus Christ came down to show us a better way. In His condescension, He taught us how not to be crappy towards others and He taught us how to suffer everyone else's crap.

Not my first adjective I'd choose, but nonetheless you've encapsulated something important in a unique way....a new definition of the golden rule. =))

In all seriousness. The Lord has been so merciful to me - I think his mercy is more easily obtained than most LDS believe as we tend to be a little too hard on ourselves in our aim for perfection.

[marc]

This is why Jesus Christ came down to show us a better way. In His condescension, He taught us how not to be crappy towards others and He taught us how to suffer everyone else's crap.

Not my first adjective I'd choose, but nonetheless you've encapsulated something important in a unique way....a new definition of the golden rule. =))

In all seriousness. The Lord has been so merciful to me - I think his mercy is more easily obtained than most LDS believe as we tend to be a little too hard on ourselves in our aim for perfection.

I really wanted to drive my message home, though. And yes, Jesus Christ is so merciful. After all:

Alma 7:11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.

12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.

Mosiah 15:8 And thus God breaketh the bands of death, having gained the victory over death; giving the Son power to make intercession for the children of men—

9 Having ascended into heaven, having the bowels of mercy; being filled with compassion towards the children of men; standing betwixt them and justice; having broken the bands of death, taken upon himself their iniquity and their transgressions, having redeemed them, and satisfied the demands of justice.

3 Nephi 17:5 And it came to pass that when Jesus had thus spoken, he cast his eyes round about again on the multitude, and beheld they were in tears, and did look steadfastly upon him as if they would ask him to tarry a little longer with them.

6 And he said unto them: Behold, my bowels are filled with compassion towards you.

I am so unworthy of Him. I do not deserve His grace. My bowels are full of crap. I am full of crap. But I know He loves me and He has proven it to me every time I beg forgiveness when I sin. I try and I never stop trying to keep all His sayings. He is full of compassion and grace and mercy and love. It is palpable. I know this.

[kittycat51]

My Grace is Sufficient, by Brad Wilcox.

I think this talk (fireside) by Brad is the easiest for youth to comprehend. (and some adults) My son watched the Mormon Channel version in seminary. He liked it so much that when it was his turn to be in charge of family night, he choose to watch this again. I heard Brad give a fireside on "My Grace is Sufficient" and I LOVED it.

Best talk in General Conference recently on the topic is "The Gift of Grace" by President Uchtdorf in April 2015
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

[gclayjr]

marc,

I am so unworthy of Him. I do not deserve His grace. My bowels are full of crap. I am full of crap. But I know He loves me and He has proven it to me every time I beg forgiveness when I sin. I try and I never stop trying to keep all His sayings. He is full of compassion and grace and mercy and love. It is palpable. I know this.

You are right. None of us can earn our way into the Celestial kingdom. Where so many Christians get it wrong, is that they believe that if you cannot earn your way to Heaven (Celestial Kingdom), then as long as you accept Jesus Christ as you Savior, it doesn't matter what you do. They confuse the difference between the idea that you cannot earn it, with the idea that you do need to do everything you can to do so. Then Christ will judge, and his Mercy will allow us to receive that which we did not and could not earn by ourselves.

Regards,

George Clay

[diligently seeking]

Nephi's words are so amazingly instructive on the crap of this existence and how to be redeemed in and from the dung. Thank you Jesus...!!

16 Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.

17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities.

18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me.

19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.

20 My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.

21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.

22 He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the night-time.

24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me.

25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.

26 O then, if I have seen so great things, if the Lord in his condescension unto the children of men hath visited men in so much mercy, why should my heart weep and my soul linger in the valley of sorrow, and my flesh waste away, and my strength slacken, because of mine afflictions?

27 And why should I yield to sin, because of my flesh? Yea, why should I give way to temptations, that the evil one have place in my heart to destroy my peace and afflict my soul? Why am I angry because of mine enemy?

28 Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul.

29 Do not anger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions.

30 Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

31 O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin?

32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road!

33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy.

34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen.

[diligently seeking]

In this carnal sensual and devilish / fallen existence ad to this difficult condition the intrusive and hostile nearly ever present satanic opposition --- *the quicker we wake up and realize* the significance that "man is nothing" when it comes to overcoming these influences that direct us to hell and that we are in great need of the Grace and Power / Redemption of Jesus *the better...*

HOLY AND PURE
= freedom from the crap. Thank you Jesus...!

2nephi9
45 O, my beloved brethren, turn away from your sins; shake off the chains of him that would bind you fast; come unto that God who is the rock of your salvation.

46 Prepare your souls for that glorious day when justice shall be administered unto the righteous, even the day of judgment, that ye may not shrink with awful fear; that ye may not remember your awful guilt in perfectness, and be constrained to exclaim: Holy, holy are thy judgments, O Lord God Almighty—but I know my guilt; I transgressed thy law, and my transgressions are mine; and the devil hath obtained me, that I am a prey to his awful misery.

47 But behold, my brethren, is it expedient that I should awake you to an awful reality of these things? Would I harrow up your souls if your minds were PURE? Would I be plain unto you according to the plainness of the truth if ye were freed from sin?

48 Behold, if ye were HOLY I would speak unto you of holiness; but as ye are not holy, and ye look upon me as a teacher, it must needs be expedient that I teach you the consequences of sin.

49 Behold, my soul abhorreth sin, and my heart delighteth in righteousness; and I will praise the holy name of my God.

50 Come, my brethren, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters; and he that hath no money, come buy and eat; yea, come buy wine and milk without money and without price.

51 Wherefore, do not spend money for that which is of no worth, nor your labor for that which cannot satisfy. Hearken diligently unto me, and remember the words which I have spoken; and come unto the Holy One of Israel, and feast upon that which perisheth not, neither can be corrupted, and let your soul delight in fatness.

52 Behold, my beloved brethren, remember the words of your God; pray unto him continually by day, and give thanks unto his holy name by night. Let your hearts rejoice.

53 And behold how great the covenants of the Lord, and how great his condescensions unto the children of men; and because of his greatness, and his grace and mercy...

[diligently seeking]

Being born of God redeemed by Jesus in this fallen condition = putting off the natural man and transcending membership status and becoming an actual Saint through his atonement-- few scriptures explain it and show it better than King Benjamin's sermon. Mosiah chapters 2-5 SUPER INSTRUCTIVE... Thank you our Lord and Savior and Redeemer our most loving and kind Advocate!


Mosiah 4

1 And now, it came to pass that when king Benjamin had made an end of speaking the words which had been delivered unto him by the angel of the Lord, that he cast his eyes round about on the multitude, and behold they had fallen to the earth, for the fear of the Lord had come upon them.

2And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.

3 And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and they were filled with joy, having received a remission of their sins, and having peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come, according to the words which king Benjamin had spoken unto them.

4 And king Benjamin again opened his mouth and began to speak unto them, saying: My friends and my brethren, my kindred and my people, I would again call your attention, that ye may hear and understand the remainder of my words which I shall speak unto you.

5For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state

6 I say unto you, if ye have come to a knowledge of the goodness of God, and his matchless power, and his wisdom, and his patience, and his long-suffering towards the children of men; and also, the atonement which has been prepared from the foundation of the world, that thereby salvation might come to him that should put his trust in the Lord, and should be diligent in keeping his commandments, and continue in the faith even unto the end of his life, I mean the life of the mortal body

7 I say, that this is the man who receiveth salvation, through the atonement which was prepared from the foundation of the world for all mankind, which ever were since the fall of Adam, or who are, or who ever shall be, even unto the end of the world.

[brianj]

I vividly recall an experience from my mission. In a church member household a teenage girl asked her stepfather why Amazing Grace isn't in our hymnal (a question I have). He answered, saying we don't believe in grace; we earn or way into heaven. That was one of the very few times in life that I have been shocked speechless.

Even if we could somehow become perfect on our own, reaching the point where we live sinless lives from that time forward, we could never resurrect ourselves and our past sins would prevent us from ever being able to come into Heavenly Father's presence. It is only through the grace of Jesus Christ that His atonement can be applied to allow us to be resurrected into immortality and to have the stain of our sins cleansed.
And I would argue that without the grace of Christ we could never turn away from our sins.

[diligently seeking]

I vividly recall an experience from my mission. In a church member household a teenage girl asked her stepfather why Amazing Grace isn't in our hymnal (a question I have). He answered, saying we don't believe in grace; we earn or way into heaven. That was one of the very few times in life that I have been shocked speechless.

Even if we could somehow become perfect on our own, reaching the point where we live sinless lives from that time forward, we could never resurrect ourselves and our past sins would prevent us from ever being able to come into Heavenly Father's presence. It is only through the grace of Jesus Christ that His atonement can be applied to allow us to be resurrected into immortality and to have the stain of our sins cleansed.
And I would argue that without the grace of Christ we could never turn away from our sins.

So true! That is because in our redeemed state "his love becomes the theme of our song"

Https://youtu.be/2sM-p1bdOTg

[marc]

Thank you all for your replies. 2 Nephi 4 is very meaningful to me. I love Nephi for putting himself out there from beginning to end. He has made a huge impact in my own life.

[Dave62]

A Christian friend once explained his view of Grace. He said. "Grace is free, but it isn't cheap." The more I think on this small axiom, the more it makes sense. Grace is offered freely to all who will come unto Christ, but it cost Him so dearly.

[True]

Cheap grace and costly grace were discussed in Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book The Cost of Discipleship.

"Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession...Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate."
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

"Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock. Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: 'Ye were bought at a price', and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God."
Bonhoeffer

He says a lot more about cheap and costly grace that is beautiful in his book. I highly recommend his biography by Eric Metaxes. A truly inspiring disciple of Jesus Christ.

[True]

"Costly grace is the treasure hidden in the field; for the sake of it a man will gladly go and sell all that he has. It is the pearl of great price to buy which the merchant will sell all his goods. It is the kingly rule of Christ, for whose sake a man will pluck out the eye, which causes him to stumble, it is the call of Jesus Christ at which the disciple leaves his nets and follows Him."
Deitrich Bonhoeffer

"

[Dave62]

Thank you True.