Contradiction between Bible and BofMormon

[michaelhord]

I am coming here to try to get an answer to a very strange delema. I have been a Mormon since 1993. I am very aware of much evidence in favor of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon however I have stumbled across a very strange problem.
The Book of Mormon tells us in Helaman 12:14 that it is the earth that moves and not the sun.
Joshua 10:12-14 tells us that the sun and moon stopped.
Isaiah 38:8 tells us that the sun moved backwards 10 degrees. These are eyewitnesses.
Helaman explains that it only appeared that the sun stopped or moved.
On April 8, 1843, Jospeh Smith Addressed Deaon Homespuns statement that "the earth was as flat as a pancake".
Joseph Smith did not use the Helaman reference, instead he said that " science had proved to the contrary".
To me this looks suspicious. Had he referred to Helaman instead of science I wouldnt have any doubts about Joseph Smith.
Additionally, Genesis 1:16-17 tells us that the sun , moon and stars were put in the firmament. The firmament is defined in Genesis 1:6. The firmament is not the sky or space, it is a divider . If you have doubts, keep reading.
Revelation 6:13 Tells us that the stars shall fall like figs.
Keep reading to the next verse.

President uchtdorf mentioned the flat earth in 2013 when not many were talking about it. The topic is now raging.
It seems strange that he would be aware of a fringe topic.
It would have been better if he hadnt mentioned the topic at all. If he was aware back then and mentioned it is he really not going to address it again when it has become a full on threat to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon?

I dont care if you think flat earth is bunk or not.
The problem still stands and we are going to need an answer sooner or later when flat earth fundamentalists catch on to this contradiction. They are going to see everything I mentioned and they are going to use it.

There are christian facebook groups with over 17,000 members who believe in flat earth. There is a flat earth conference this November in North Carolina. These things are happening in Europe as well. I don't think this thing is going to go away when it is growing fast.

Any thoughts or information I may not know about would be appreciated.

[mes5464]

I am coming here to try to get an answer to a very strange delema. I have been a Mormon since 1993. I am very aware of much evidence in favor of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon however I have stumbled across a very strange problem.
The Book of Mormon tells us in Helaman 12:14 that it is the earth that moves and not the sun.
Joshua 10:12-14 tells us that the sun and moon stopped.
Isaiah 38:8 tells us that the sun moved backwards 10 degrees. These are eyewitnesses.
Helaman explains that it only appeared that the sun stopped or moved.
On April 8, 1843, Jospeh Smith Addressed Deaon Homespuns statement that "the earth was as flat as a pancake".
Joseph Smith did not use the Helaman reference, instead he said that " science had proved to the contrary".
To me this looks suspicious. Had he referred to Helaman instead of science I wouldnt have any doubts about Joseph Smith.
Additionally, Genesis 1:16-17 tells us that the sun , moon and stars were put in the firmament. The firmament is defined in Genesis 1:6. The firmament is not the sky or space, it is a divider . If you have doubts, keep reading.
Revelation 6:13 Tells us that the stars shall fall like figs.
Keep reading to the next verse.

There is no contradiction:

Firmament.png (79.48 KiB) Viewed 1050 times

As for Joseph, I often speak to unbelievers in the language they understand. If I am speaking to believers of evolution or 'big bang' I speak to them in terms they understand and refute them with their own erroneous ideas.

[braingrunt]

I still use the terminology, "the sun went down". Works good for talking to little people on the face of this big earth. Don't get hung up on it.

If you're interested in apostatizing, I suggest finding a better reason.

[LdsMarco]

Okay.... so I'm still going to say it's NOT FLAT but if it's flat.... does it really matter? Matter like what? Lied to? We get lied to all the time.. but the main question is what difference does it make? Does it change anything? I'm just wondering

[Silver]

I am coming here to try to get an answer to a very strange delema. I have been a Mormon since 1993. I am very aware of much evidence in favor of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon however I have stumbled across a very strange problem.
The Book of Mormon tells us in Helaman 12:14 that it is the earth that moves and not the sun.
Joshua 10:12-14 tells us that the sun and moon stopped.
Isaiah 38:8 tells us that the sun moved backwards 10 degrees. These are eyewitnesses.
Helaman explains that it only appeared that the sun stopped or moved.
On April 8, 1843, Jospeh Smith Addressed Deaon Homespuns statement that "the earth was as flat as a pancake".
Joseph Smith did not use the Helaman reference, instead he said that " science had proved to the contrary".
To me this looks suspicious. Had he referred to Helaman instead of science I wouldnt have any doubts about Joseph Smith.
Additionally, Genesis 1:16-17 tells us that the sun , moon and stars were put in the firmament. The firmament is defined in Genesis 1:6. The firmament is not the sky or space, it is a divider . If you have doubts, keep reading.
Revelation 6:13 Tells us that the stars shall fall like figs.
Keep reading to the next verse.

President uchtdorf mentioned the flat earth in 2013 when not many were talking about it. The topic is now raging.
It seems strange that he would be aware of a fringe topic.
It would have been better if he hadnt mentioned the topic at all. If he was aware back then and mentioned it is he really not going to address it again when it has become a full on threat to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon?

I dont care if you think flat earth is bunk or not.
The problem still stands and we are going to need an answer sooner or later when flat earth fundamentalists catch on to this contradiction. They are going to see everything I mentioned and they are going to use it.

There are christian facebook groups with over 17,000 members who believe in flat earth. There is a flat earth conference this November in North Carolina. These things are happening in Europe as well. I don't think this thing is going to go away when it is growing fast.

Any thoughts or information I may not know about would be appreciated.

In 173 years from now, who do you think will have more followers, you or Joseph Smith, the Prophet? This inquiry is not meant to be a flippant question at all. On June 27th, 2017, we will mark the 173 anniversary of the martyrdom of the Prophet. Even before he was killed, anti-Mormons and the ignorant had tried to besmirch his honor and prove him wrong without success. Even with all the headwinds, the church through which God restored his gospel to the earth continues to grow. "Famous" men and women have all had their 15 minutes of fame trying to "prove" how the Book of Mormon can't be true. Meanwhile, slowly but surely, more and more evidence is revealed which demonstrates that a trip from the old world to the Americas 600 years before Christ is not such an impossible task after all. Yet, most people can't tell you the name of any anti-Mormons who over the years have fought in vain against the Prophet and Seer.

Here's what I can tell you:
"Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated!" (close quote)

[LdsMarco]

Okay.. so this is the best interpretation of your question. It has 3 parts but it's up to you if you want to take the time to have some sort of understanding. Hope this helps

[kittycat51]

Micheal, It makes me so sad to see people get hung up over things like this. Let's break it down simply and get back to basics. Jesus Christ our Savior is the CENTER of our religion. The Book of Mormon is the keystone to our religion, it's purpose is another testimony of Jesus Christ, or another witness that HE was born, died and HE LIVES AGAIN. Joseph stated in the B of M introduction: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” The 8th article of faith states: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly..." Therefore whether by correct/Incorrect translation or people's own interpretations thereof I don't get hung up about things in the bible like flat earth or not.

[michaelhord]

The above responses do no explain what Joshua saw. He said what he saw.
Isaiah went further and said that the sun moved backward.
Nowhere does the Bible say the earth stopped.
You have to add words to the Bible.
There are numerous verses that say that the earth is upon pillars and it does not move.
The earth does not move or stop but the sun and moon can.
Helaman 12:14 says that it is the earth that moves. There is no mention of how this could be known. The ancient inhabitants were flat earthers. Flat Earth was the knowledge of ancient people. We had to be converted over centuries to believe that the earth moved around the sun.
I am well aware of many evidences for the book of Mormon. I am not interested in finding a reason to apostasize.

[freedomforall]

Why not ask the astronauts from around the globe that have ever left the earth and flown around the world and see if they say the earth is flat? How about the Hubble Space Telescope? What does it reveal? Or how about Admiral Byrd who discovered a hole leading to the inside of the earth and claims the earth to be hollow?

Flat earth? Nope.

[Alaris]

I still use the terminology, "the sun went down". Works good for talking to little people on the face of this big earth. Don't get hung up on it.

If you're interested in apostatizing, I suggest finding a better reason.

Not a very Christlike thing to say. You wouldn't say this to his face I'm guessing so why say it behind the safe cushion of anonymity? The fact two people liked your post is shameful. Yes I thought it too. Perhaps this young man is struggling with sin and is looking for an out for his conscience? If true how does calling him out on it in such a callous and cavalier fashion help him? Poor guy had to state he's not looking to apostatize. Shameful.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is one of love. These forums are a vehicle to that end or can be a vehicle for enmity, strife, and contention. Truly it saddens me there are LDS trolls in these forums as they are in the forums of the world... Trolling people to heckle and tear others down in a bully like fashion. You should apologize.

Back to the topic at hand. I think the flat earth stuff is fascinating... Not scientifically but spiritually. Copernicus bucked the trend and vocalized his theory that the earth revolved around the sun. He was mocked and rejected. Had his theory been adopted during his lifetime do you think the scientists of the day would have collectively apologized? I think not. If he was wrong would their treatment of him been justified? Absolutely not. And therein lies the answer in my humble opinion.

If we truly discovered the earth were flat then those who have mocked would be wrong but they would be wrong in their mockery regardless because mockery is an enemy to learning and to righteousness. Large and Spacious.

The title page to the Book of Mormon written by the hand of Moroni states that if there be mistakes they are the mistakes of men and Do not condemn the things of God. There have been zero perfect people writing scriptures. There are mistakes. There are contradictions. But they pale in comparison of the vast depths of knowledge and testimony one can gain in righteous pursuit of truth by utilizing these imperfect scriptures written by imperfect men... All on their and your quest for perfection.

Longer post than I planned... The short of my message is I believe the truth of the gospel reveals the truly important lessons to be learned by flat Earth theory regardless of its veracity.

[freedomforall]

Are planets flat? Is the Milky Way flat? Is Kolob flat?
Was the earth flat when all its land mass was altogether in one location?

Earth.gif (309.06 KiB) Viewed 941 times

[freedomforall]

Actually, the earth is an Oblate Spheriod:

Oblate Spheroid1.jpg (105.2 KiB) Viewed 937 times

[Serragon]

Actually, the earth is an Oblate Spheriod:

Show Off.

[Alaris]

I dont care if you think flat earth is bunk or not.
The problem still stands and we are going to need an answer sooner or later when flat earth fundamentalists catch on to this contradiction. They are going to see everything I mentioned and they are going to use it.

There are christian facebook groups with over 17,000 members who believe in flat earth. There is a flat earth conference this November in North Carolina. These things are happening in Europe as well. I don't think this thing is going to go away when it is growing fast.

Any thoughts or information I may not know about would be appreciated.

No sarcasm in this -> Are you concerned that flat earth non mormons are going to attack our religion based off apparent contradictions between the Bible and the Book of Mormon about the earth being flat?

There is a formula for seeking truth that is only found in the straight and narrow course - the wide path that most find includes the formula for ignorance whose key ingredient is pride. If there are sincere truth seekers among the flat earthers who are more interested in God's truth than their own, then I submit to you that we do not need to have a defense ready. The truth speaks for itself - always has.

[freedomforall]

I am coming here to try to get an answer to a very strange delema. I have been a Mormon since 1993. I am very aware of much evidence in favor of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon however I have stumbled across a very strange problem.
The Book of Mormon tells us in Helaman 12:14 that it is the earth that moves and not the sun.
Joshua 10:12-14 tells us that the sun and moon stopped.
Isaiah 38:8 tells us that the sun moved backwards 10 degrees. These are eyewitnesses.
Helaman explains that it only appeared that the sun stopped or moved.
On April 8, 1843, Jospeh Smith Addressed Deaon Homespuns statement that "the earth was as flat as a pancake".
Joseph Smith did not use the Helaman reference, instead he said that " science had proved to the contrary".
To me this looks suspicious. Had he referred to Helaman instead of science I wouldnt have any doubts about Joseph Smith.
Additionally, Genesis 1:16-17 tells us that the sun , moon and stars were put in the firmament. The firmament is defined in Genesis 1:6. The firmament is not the sky or space, it is a divider . If you have doubts, keep reading.
Revelation 6:13 Tells us that the stars shall fall like figs.
Keep reading to the next verse.

President uchtdorf mentioned the flat earth in 2013 when not many were talking about it. The topic is now raging.
It seems strange that he would be aware of a fringe topic.
It would have been better if he hadnt mentioned the topic at all. If he was aware back then and mentioned it is he really not going to address it again when it has become a full on threat to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon?

I dont care if you think flat earth is bunk or not.
The problem still stands and we are going to need an answer sooner or later when flat earth fundamentalists catch on to this contradiction. They are going to see everything I mentioned and they are going to use it.

There are christian facebook groups with over 17,000 members who believe in flat earth. There is a flat earth conference this November in North Carolina. These things are happening in Europe as well. I don't think this thing is going to go away when it is growing fast.

Any thoughts or information I may not know about would be appreciated.

In 173 years from now, who do you think will have more followers, you or Joseph Smith, the Prophet? This inquiry is not meant to be a flippant question at all. On June 27th, 2017, we will mark the 173 anniversary of the martyrdom of the Prophet. Even before he was killed, anti-Mormons and the ignorant had tried to besmirch his honor and prove him wrong without success. Even with all the headwinds, the church through which God restored his gospel to the earth continues to grow. "Famous" men and women have all had their 15 minutes of fame trying to "prove" how the Book of Mormon can't be true. Meanwhile, slowly but surely, more and more evidence is revealed which demonstrates that a trip from the old world to the Americas 600 years before Christ is not such an impossible task after all. Yet, most people can't tell you the name of any anti-Mormons who over the years have fought in vain against the Prophet and Seer.

Here's what I can tell you:
"Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated!" (close quote)

Now compare to this from HISTORY OF THE CHURCH. 408

"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it
is all of the devil — all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false
swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down
your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to
boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has
ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days

A. D. 1844] HISTORY OF THE CHURCH. 409

of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me.
Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no
man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from
Him;, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know
my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and
good people. How I do love to hear the wolves howl! When they can
get rid of me, the devil will also go. For the last three years I have a
record of all my acts and proceedings, for I have kept several good,
faithful, and efficient clerks in constant employ: they have accompanied
me everywhere, and carefully kept my history, and they have written
down what I have done, where I have been, and what I have said;

See also: http://archive.org/stream/HistoryOfTheC ... 6_djvu.txt

Which version is CORRECT?

[inho]

Joshua 10:12-14 tells us that the sun and moon stopped.
Isaiah 38:8 tells us that the sun moved backwards 10 degrees. These are eyewitnesses.

You say it yourself here. Eyewitnesses use words that fit their experience. Like braingrunt noted, we still use phrases like "the sun went down."

I dont care if you think flat earth is bunk or not.
The problem still stands and we are going to need an answer sooner or later when flat earth fundamentalists catch on to this contradiction. They are going to see everything I mentioned and they are going to use it.

What exactly is the problem? Is it that you believe that the Earth is flat and thus the passage in Helaman is false?

Or is it that the passage in Helaman is conspicuous because people at that time didn't believe in spherical Earth? Well, we do not know that. We know very little about Nephite science, but it could be possible that they have figured out the correct nature of the Solar system. Ancient Greeks knew that the Earth is spherical and they even had some heliocentric theories.