Evangelical Christian Group's Response to the Book of Mormon

[Finrock]

How should a Christian respond to the Mormon challenge to pray about evidence for the Book of Mormon and the testimony of the Holy Spirit? You can ask them the following questions: (a) Have you ever prayed about the Koran, the Jehovah’s Witness Bible or Avesta? (b) Have you prayed about bowing before a Mary statue or reciting the rosary? (c) Should you pray about robbing a bank and giving the money to the poor?
The obvious answer is, there is no need to pray about anything that is not Biblical and is outside of God’s will, including all of those. Because these things are unbiblical, if God would answer that prayer, it would always be in accord with His written word. But to ask God in prayer something he has already spoken about can be testing God, which is also forbidden.
Remember also that Paul never asked any potential converts to pray about his message. What he taught was found in the Scriptures and they could verify it and join the group of wise people, if they would repent and submissively place their faith in Jesus Christ to follow him. See Acts 17:11,12 cf. Acts 20:21; etc.
Again, be on your guard. To pray about something like the Book of Mormon (the LDS Bible) or bowing before a Mary statue can allow the devil to give you an experience that will deceive you. A burning in the bosom from such would not be the testimony of the Holy Spirit, as the Latter Day Saint people like to say/think. This is very important to remember and tell others about.
One of my family members prayed about the Jehovah's Witnesses and got a burning in the bosom about that false religion. Is God giving the burning in the bosom experience to the Mormons and people who pray about the Jehovah’s Witnesses too? It would be impossible because these two beliefs are poles apart from each other. (These facts would also be good to share with the Mormon missionaries when they get emphatic about you praying about the Book of Mormon.) Do you remember what the aforementioned Mormon wrote about peace and joy from the Holy Spirit? In part he wrote:

... he [the devil] can not duplicate the peace and joy that come from a witness from the Holy Spirit from God.


Is The Devil Deceiving People About LDS Scripture

Again the Mormons, like many others, are wrong about this. Yes, the devil can duplicate peace. That is what he does in transcendental meditation (TM) and also in Catholicism after one receives the Eucharist. The devil uses these and other experiences to deceive. Please remember this: Any experience, testimony, dream, vision, prophecy, teaching, etc. that is supposed to be from God but doesn’t align itself with the Bible is not from God at all. The devil can and has used all of the above.
Go by the Bible alone and be safe. 2 Tim. 3:16,17 tells us that the man of God (Christian) is thoroughly equipped for every good work with the Scriptures (the Bible) alone. Remember the Book of Mormon is not another testament of Jesus Christ, but is counterfeit Scripture similar to the Koran and like the perverted Jehovah's Witness Bible (The New World Translation).
Remember the evidence states the Latter Day Saint church and their LDS Scriptures are not of God. We, therefore, don’t lack wisdom about the Book of Mormon or Mormonism itself. Remember those truths when witnessing to Mormons. (So if they mention James 1:5 about any man lacking wisdom, answer as just cited.) It is not only futile to pray about the Book of Mormon it is also dangerous, for it can open a person up to a Satanic deception. The devil can give you a burning in the bosom and has done so to deceive precious souls. (Emphasis Added)

Source: https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/book-of-mormon.htm

Where have I seen this type of reasoning before? Hmm...

-Finrock

[JohnnyL]

Yeah, I've mentioned on a few old threads the similarity between the thinking and methods of con-LDS and con-EH, and I still agree, and these examples are helpful--
though most Mormons will say they prayed about it and God said not to (so they think it's evil),
or they prayed about one thing, which was bad or wrong, and God said no, and they generalized it to everything else;
or they thought they got an answer, and didn't really;
or Satan mislead them about EH being mislead, ironic...

[Finrock]

Yeah, I've mentioned on a few old threads the similarity between the thinking and methods of con-LDS and con-EH, and I still agree, and these examples are helpful--
though most Mormons will say they prayed about it and God said not to (so they think it's evil),
or they prayed about one thing, which was bad or wrong, and God said no, and they generalized it to everything else;
or they thought they got an answer, and didn't really;
or Satan mislead them about EH being mislead, ironic...

Regardless of the subject matter, it is interesting to me to see Mormons use the same fear tactics and methods as anti's do, yet, they would wholly reject that reasoning and those same methods if it was directed at their belief system. It is interesting to me to see sociocentric bias at work and how seemingly oblivious people are to their own prejudices and biases and how much they allow them to rule their life, their decision making, and how they interact with others.

But, I get it too. There was a time when I felt and thought similar things to a certain extent. I remember several years ago now talking with a good friend of mine who is Eastern Orthodox. He would share with me stories of some of the Early Saints or Saints that were revered by the Orthodox Church about their healing experiences and "supernatural" experiences and I remember being so skeptical because in my mind back then I couldn't reconcile the idea that the LDS Church is the one and only true Church and that only the LDS Church has proper priesthood authority and what he was describing to me. Particularly because of how big of a focus is put on the fact that the LDS Church is the only Church with "priesthood authority" it seemed impossible to me that any other church or religion could be performing things which, in my mind back then could only be performed through proper priesthood authority and channels. So, I mostly rejected the things he was sharing because I couldn't see the bigger picture back then.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

Reductio ad Hitlerum (pseudo-Latin for "reduction to Hitler"; sometimes argumentum ad Hitlerum, "argument to Hitler", ad Nazium, "to Nazism"), or playing the Nazi card, is an attempt to invalidate someone else's position on the basis that the same view was held by Adolf Hitler or the Nazi Party,[1] for example: "Hitler was a vegetarian, X is a vegetarian, therefore X is a Nazi".

It seems to me that instead of Reductio ad Hitlerum, I see Reductio ad Luciferum when it comes to disagreements on religious issues. When an Evangelical Christian speaks about Mormonism and the practices of Mormonism and they disagree with Mormonism, they will attempt to invalidate the religion by essentially playing the Lucifer card.

"Joseph Smith claims to have seen a being who's brightness exceeded the noonday sun. The devil can disguise himself as an angel of light, therefore Joseph Smith was listening to Satan."

Why do we try to invalidate other people's spiritual experiences by claiming them to be of Satan or Lucifer?

Why are we willing to accept spiritual experiences that happen within our sociocentric circles, but invalidate the same types of spiritual experiences that happen outside of our sociocentric circles?

How many of us would accept a story of miraculous healing if it was told to us by our Stake President without question? How many of us would accept a story of miraculous healing if it was told to us by a Buddhist monk without question? Why or why not?

-Finrock

[oneClimbs]

I try to make it a point to never criticize another's spiritual claims. If I have no knowledge one way of the other of what happened to them then I cannot contradict it or say what is or is not possible. The critics are right that deception is possible and perhaps we would do well to remember that ourselves. I think in LDS circles we can be far to quick to endorse any claimed revelation that sides with our point of view. We are all to ready to confirm that any warm feeling is in fact a witness of the Spirit when it may have simply been an emotional reaction.

Personally, I can recognize the difference, but I also believe that I have in fact been deceived on several occasions by running with a revelation without seeking confirmation. I wrote a little about this here for those that are interested: http://oneclimbs.com/2017/02/01/critica ... deception/

I have no reason to doubt that God works miracles in the lives of the faithful no matter what religion they ascribe to. I don't believe that a loving father ignores well-meaning and faithful children. Mormon 9:21 states: "Behold, I say unto you that whoso believeth in Christ, doubting nothing, whatsoever he shall ask the Father in the name of Christ it shall be granted him; and this promise is unto all, even unto the ends of the earth." and Alma 28:8 states: "For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have;"

[Serragon]

The obvious answer is, there is no need to pray about anything that is not Biblical and is outside of God’s will, including all of those. Because these things are unbiblical, if God would answer that prayer, it would always be in accord with His written word. But to ask God in prayer something he has already spoken about can be testing God, which is also forbidden

And how does a Christian come to know that the Bible is the Word of God if asking God and a witness of the Spirit is off limits? This person simply makes the assumption that it is. I suppose they are interpreting that as faith.

His comments about the people Paul taught being able to verify his teachings using scripture is laughable. Very little of Christian doctrine was available in written form to most of the people where Paul taught.

[brianj]

How many of us would accept a story of miraculous healing if it was told to us by our Stake President without question? How many of us would accept a story of miraculous healing if it was told to us by a Buddhist monk without question? Why or why not?

-Finrock

I think that part of it is that we all want to be right, so if someone disagrees with us then one side is wrong and nobody wants to be wrong. I believe that a strong testimony is an antidote to this. Heavenly Father works by faith and if we put our faith in Him, even if we do it the wrong way, we will be blessed for that faith.

I recall a TV minister who figured that one out and told his viewers to make a vow of faith. If you need a blessing then give God more money than you can afford as a sacrifice (by sending it to the minister) and God will hear your prayers and bless you for your faith. Based on what the Book of Mormon says about priestcraft I think this minister may need a lot of repentance, but he was able to provide viewers with plenty of stories of people who were blessed after sacrificing in this way.

We also have to remember that Satan is a great imitator. Our enemy will create what appears to be miracles to deceive and lead people away from the light.

Because of these two principles I won't doubt anybody who claims to have a story of a miraculous healing of to have experienced some other miracles.

[brianj]

And how does a Christian come to know that the Bible is the Word of God if asking God and a witness of the Spirit is off limits? This person simply makes the assumption that it is. I suppose they are interpreting that as faith.

His comments about the people Paul taught being able to verify his teachings using scripture is laughable. Very little of Christian doctrine was available in written form to most of the people where Paul taught.

Since I'm a convert I have the answer and am happy to answer your question. You don't come to know the Bible is the Word of God. Instead of knowing it you believe it. It is a sin to question God, even with a question as significant as wanting to know if the Bible really is true.

And this really is faith. Nobody, not us converts or those of you raised in the church, can start with anything more than an assumption or hope that what the LDS church teaches is true. When we read the Book of Mormon and try to learn if it is true we are exercising faith in the same way the Protestant is exercising faith by following at least a couple teachings of the Bible without having a prior knowledge of the truthfulness of its contents.

[Serragon]

And how does a Christian come to know that the Bible is the Word of God if asking God and a witness of the Spirit is off limits? This person simply makes the assumption that it is. I suppose they are interpreting that as faith.

His comments about the people Paul taught being able to verify his teachings using scripture is laughable. Very little of Christian doctrine was available in written form to most of the people where Paul taught.

Since I'm a convert I have the answer and am happy to answer your question. You don't come to know the Bible is the Word of God. Instead of knowing it you believe it. It is a sin to question God, even with a question as significant as wanting to know if the Bible really is true.

And this really is faith. Nobody, not us converts or those of you raised in the church, can start with anything more than an assumption or hope that what the LDS church teaches is true. When we read the Book of Mormon and try to learn if it is true we are exercising faith in the same way the Protestant is exercising faith by following at least a couple teachings of the Bible without having a prior knowledge of the truthfulness of its contents.

Thank you for the answer. I understand what you are saying. You just have to accept the bible to be true. This is the same answer given to me by my evangelical friends. They tell me that it simply is true and is God's Word. They also tell me that they do not interpret the Bible. Only others interpret it.

So what prevents the protestant from applying the same principle to the Book of Mormon? Why is this blind belief applied only to the Bible? What about the apocrypha? What about books found in eastern orthodox bibles?

I agree with your explanation of faith and how it is exercised. But I disagree that blind acceptance of the bible as the one and only Word of God with no heavenly evidence is faith.

In addition, if people should avoid asking God because Satan might answer instead... then everything that has ever been written or revealed is in question as Satan could have been involved in any of it. Including the Bible.

[Alaris]

I heard this argument all the time during my mission in Texas. It's the most ridiculously cynical and faithless view of the operations of the Spirit. I would often come back and ask the asker how they knew the Bible was true or indeed how the Savior was real and not Buddha. Most did not know how to answer and I often heard archeological evidence corroborating Jesus and the Bible which of course does not invalidate any other religion founded in antiquity.

[oneClimbs]

“Mormonism is Truth… One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may. (Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 199)

“We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 316)

There are those today who think that Mormonism as it stands and what it produces = all truth. That's not true. The restoration laid the foundation of the only true and living church (D&C 1:30) but once that foundation has been lain, where are we at in the process of construction? How high are those walls? I ask myself the question, "How far are we from Zion?" and that tends to inform my perspective.

As for me, I simply look for light. Light is truth and I can find light everywhere. I find it at church, in the Book of Mormon, and in personal meditation on doctrines and principles. I find it in other people and their experiences and faith traditions, I find it in the discoveries of science. I also see darkness in all of the same places. Sometimes I seek light, and other times I just try to receive it.

I think that all people, including us as Latter-day Saints, simply pursue God with whatever we are or have at the time. I think God responds in kind to all his children who are honest in heart. I believe that God gives truth to all, and inspires all, and I believe that the LDS people have been given specific tasks and knowledge and have received it by covenant. In the end, I think this life is about what we do with what we have or what comes across our path. What will we do with it. In this, I think we are all equal. While some may seem to have more or less than others, we all have that inner light that can discern between truth and darkness to varying degrees but in a manner suited to our individual nature.

[diligently seeking]

The church as (I recall) Elder Maxwell has said-- serves as scaffolding for the gospel. He mentioned in a Zion setting there is no need for the scaffolding." Whether he said exactly these words --this is what I gathered from what I read or heard from him.

Some of my convictions with this line of thinking:

Every disposition has strived to establish Zion. We know the results. As a people / individuals when we reflect the principles that make Zion-- the Kingdom of God resides within us... We are, through proper use of the atonement... sanctified... Our goal and aim is to have Christ with in the functions of our religious affairs like Enoch and his people... Until then, we are left with scaffolding. This holds true collectively, but does not need to be our lot individualy or with in a family setting...

Speaking of the Church and LIGHT-- it is instructive and motivating what the Lord tells us in scriptures below.

D&C84:
43-60

[brianj]

So what prevents the protestant from applying the same principle to the Book of Mormon? Why is this blind belief applied only to the Bible? What about the apocrypha? What about books found in eastern orthodox bibles?

I agree with your explanation of faith and how it is exercised. But I disagree that blind acceptance of the bible as the one and only Word of God with no heavenly evidence is faith.

In addition, if people should avoid asking God because Satan might answer instead... then everything that has ever been written or revealed is in question as Satan could have been involved in any of it. Including the Bible.

Most Protestants would not be able to answer your questions. I'll bet most of them aren't even aware of the apocryphal books included in the Bible by the Catholic church.

There is a belief that, even though the Book of Revelation was not the last New Testament book written from a chronological perspective, it was the final book written, was intended as the end of the Bible, and the heavens are now closed so there can be no more prophets or revelation. This is, of course, contradictory. But some will try to explain this by claiming that Revelation is metaphorical or the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Satan, as well as the ministers profiting from perpetuating these beliefs, will go to great lengths to persuade modern Christians to believe that there can be no more Bible and no more prophecy.