LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

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AI2.0
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LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by AI2.0 »

Last September KUTV News2 ran a story about 'The business behind Christ centered Energy healing'.


http://ldsanswers.org/lds-church-statem ... y-healing/

After the report was aired, the LDS church put out a statement regarding the story of the business of Christ centered energy healing;
“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders,” (LDS church spokesman Eric Hawkins)
LDSanswers, who reported on this, also pointed to this incident recorded in the New Testament;
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me. (Acts 8:18–24)
The reader comments are very interesting. This person gave a lot of compelling information which was worth reading and for some of you who practice Emotion/body code healing, some food for thought on how this particular form of Energy healing has evolved over time;
I have had some concern for this for awhile now. The start of the Christ-centered energy healing movement first began with the Emotion Code and Body Code, founded by an LDS chiropractor from S. Utah. Where it has gone since it first started is into left field- casting out evil spirits, finding weapons of spiritual sabatoge, etc. Mr. Nelson’s original intent was supposedly for people to learn how to identify and release stuck emotions that are causing physical, mental, and emotional (and spiritual) problems- including generational. He originally said his intent was to teach his method of healing around the world, for when the time came that people would not have access to traditional doctors and medicines. Where he’s gone from there has been one of his method being patented and his “students” having to pay to become certified to be able to charge for his methods being used as a means of healing people worldwide- mostly by way of internet.
It’s not cheap to become a certified practitioner of his, and once the first level is reached, it costs more money to go further. His students do not have to be licensed by their state boards, nor show they are qualified in any way to charge as much as $150 a session, and are not monitored.
For people to blindly believe they have the authority to “cast out evil spirits” by simply saying the words he says to use, including in the name of Jesus Christ, or your Higher Power, or whatever you believe in…is putting that person in a very dangerous spiritual battle.
I say this with first hand knowledge of a practitioner that has been certified and charging clients, yet that has been talking about having demons talking in her head, and has now been committed to a psychiatric ward herself.
Nelson’s original materials did not have casting out of demons as part of his materials. Many, many LDS women (especially) are now attempting to “cast out” for other women in groups on facebook. It’s not something to mess with without proper authority.
They have also been waiting to hear an approval from the general authorities of the LDS church through General Conference talks that this Energy Healing movement is approved by the church.
“In the last days, even the elect will be deceived.”
There is also a rebuttal from the person responsible for the 'Christ centered' energy healing conference in the comments that was interesting.

I am concerned about Energy healers who claim to use God's power to heal--but even if they are not charging money for the service, I think the possibility of opening oneself up to evil or false spirits through this practice is a serious concern and one that is often cited by former practioners/patients.

Finrock
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by Finrock »

I've stated before that I'm skeptical of most energy healing practices and practitioners that I am aware of or have come across, but my issue with some of the responses and reactions is that it sounds so much like the rhetoric of anti-Mormons. I can't tell you how many times I heard or I have been personally accused of opening myself up to Satan and evil spirits because the Book of Mormon asks people to pray to know if the Book of Mormon is true. Many times in my life I been told by anti-Mormons that the Holy Spirit that I felt confirm truth to me was actually Satan disguising himself as an angel of light. If you read anti-Mormon literature and the rhetoric of "concerned Christians" when addressing their friends who are investigating the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints they say the same things that are being said here about us Mormons and the things that missionaries ask investigators to do. According to these individuals the "burning in the bosom" is from Satan. Praying to find out about the Book of Mormon opens us to evil spirits. Doing the things the missionaries ask an investigator to do is dangerous. Basically, it is biased and prejudicial fear mongering.

If we Mormons, hate it when others treat us and our religion this way, why on Earth would we use the same tactics and adopt the same mentality of the anti-Mormons? It just too hypocritical for me and I really dislike the special pleading involved.

From a psychological stand point, at least as much as I understand psychology (which is very little so take this with a grain of salt please and thank you) what really motivates this type of speech and this type of fear mongering is that it feels to some that their religion or their faith is being threatened. In this instance, the sociocentric paradigm that is in play is that only The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has authorized priesthood authority. Accepting that someone else may be healing another person by faith in Jesus Christ without approval or without going through the "authorized channel" calls in to question the authority claims of the Church or at least it calls these things in to question as perceived by those who take part in the fear mongering rhetoric. Their paradigm cannot accept that this healing is coming from God and therefore it must be from Satan. It's the same type of sociocentric bias that motivates the anti-Mormons and the "concerned Christian" to speak negatively about Mormons or the LDS religion.

-Finrock

e-eye2.0
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by e-eye2.0 »

Since that statement I have not seen as many people defending energy healing but I don't know how many are still doing it. At the time it seemed like the energy healers used justification to continue their practice as non followers of this used it as validation for avoidance.

To avoid the sifting one will need to be able to make course corrections large or small and do so quickly. The concern of the stake president was the link that energy healing had to the Denver Snuffer crowd. Avoid the link, and you help eliminate the potential down fall. The brethren already made a statement on energy healing those who choose to ignore or justify it fall under the same line as any other bad habit or sin that can lead one down dangerous paths.

DesertWonderer
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by DesertWonderer »

AI2.0 wrote: April 11th, 2017, 10:07 am http://ldsanswers.org/lds-church-statem ... y-healing/

After the report was aired, the LDS church put out a statement regarding the story of the business of Christ centered
When you give this a 1/2 second of thought, it actually is a very strongly worded message.

Urge Definition:
1
: to present, advocate, or demand earnestly or pressingly

URGE is not frequently used. in the church and when it is, it conveys nearly the same meaning as a commandment. This is probably the strongest language that they could use w/o getting sued.

Finrock
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by Finrock »

DesertWonderer wrote: April 11th, 2017, 3:45 pm
AI2.0 wrote: April 11th, 2017, 10:07 am http://ldsanswers.org/lds-church-statem ... y-healing/

After the report was aired, the LDS church put out a statement regarding the story of the business of Christ centered
When you give this a 1/2 second of thought, it actually is a very strongly worded message.

Urge Definition:
1
: to present, advocate, or demand earnestly or pressingly

URGE is not frequently used. in the church and when it is, it conveys nearly the same meaning as a commandment. This is probably the strongest language that they could use w/o getting sued.
The statement that is being quoted as being from the Church urges members to be cautious. This is different from saying members should not or ought not to participate in these groups.

I agree with being cautious about participating in any of these groups.

-Finrock

brianj
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by brianj »

I don't recall seeing that statement last year, but then again I wouldn't have seen anything from KUTV.

What I would love to see is a study comparing energy healing to the placebo effect. I don't believe that Satan has the power to heal so I suspect it's all in peoples' minds.

JohnnyL
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by JohnnyL »

Let's play musical chairs!!

Let's avoid answering all the hard questions when we get called out on our comments, then run to a tangential topic and start up another conversation!

See, it's not about understanding, the search for truth, or discussion, but trying, somehow, to shove, twist, manipulate, distort, exaggerate, or do whatever else is needed to control the life and superiority of our personal paradigm over that of all others.
Last edited by JohnnyL on April 12th, 2017, 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

JohnnyL
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by JohnnyL »

brianj wrote: April 11th, 2017, 9:36 pm I don't recall seeing that statement last year, but then again I wouldn't have seen anything from KUTV.

What I would love to see is a study comparing energy healing to the placebo effect. I don't believe that Satan has the power to heal so I suspect it's all in peoples' minds.
Well, let me ask (everyone): is the placebo effect from God, or Satan?

JohnnyL
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by JohnnyL »

e-eye2.0 wrote: April 11th, 2017, 12:20 pm "The brethren already made a statement on energy healing..."
Where?

You mean the comment by Elder Ballard that was going to clear it all up and show how bad it was and the church was against it--the comment that two people had heard and tape recorded, and were going to post in this forum--but never did?

Or the comment by President Packer, that he was going to give very soon, exposing it all?

Did I miss another one, somewhere?

e-eye2.0
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by e-eye2.0 »

JohnnyL wrote: April 12th, 2017, 7:00 am
e-eye2.0 wrote: April 11th, 2017, 12:20 pm "The brethren already made a statement on energy healing..."
Where?

You mean the comment by Elder Ballard that was going to clear it all up and show how bad it was and the church was against it--the comment that two people had heard and tape recorded, and were going to post in this forum--but never did?

Or the comment by President Packer, that he was going to give very soon, exposing it all?

Did I miss another one, somewhere?
Oh yeah I remember that!

I am talking about the quote that's started this thread - that's what I am talking about.

JohnnyL
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by JohnnyL »

Here's another question:

Does "God's power" =, and only =, Melchizedek priesthood?

JohnnyL
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by JohnnyL »

“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders,” (LDS church spokesman Eric Hawkins)

A horrible response, in my opinion. If something was wrong, he should have come out and said it, or said "no comment" until that time. I think there are lots of things that should be said, that aren't being said. And yes, Christ-centered healing could be part of it (because I know little of it, but it doesn't sound right).

First of all, are these "groups"? Is that a key? Because it used to be, due to the problems where people would join groups that would stay up late, take off clothes, partner with opposite sex who weren't your partners, etc. I'm sure you haven't all forgotten those letters...

"Cautious?" Absolutely! Be cautious when you do anything, I say.

"in exchange for money"--and if it weren't for money, should we cautious, then?

"miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders,”--so if a healing is not miraculous, is it ok, we need not be cautious?
Is healing power ONLY found through "properly ordained priesthood holders"?
So when someone claims a miraculous healing through Western medicine, are they being "urged to be cautious"?
What do we make of the many, many people who have come up with incredible healing things?

Are they worried about people losing their life savings, or what? If yes, why not include "investing", "MLM", etc. along with that statement? If no, why make it unclear?

As I've said before, the PR department of the church is generally... incompetent.

JohnnyL
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by JohnnyL »

AI2.0 wrote: April 11th, 2017, 10:07 am Last September KUTV News2 ran a story about 'The business behind Christ centered Energy healing'.

http://ldsanswers.org/lds-church-statem ... y-healing/

After the report was aired, the LDS church put out a statement regarding the story of the business of Christ centered energy healing;
“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders,” (LDS church spokesman Eric Hawkins)
LDSanswers, who reported on this, also pointed to this incident recorded in the New Testament;
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me. (Acts 8:18–24)
And yet, others have pointed out this, many times:
Lord, he used your name to heal, etc. Which actually has a direct connection with healing, while the Simon story doesn't.

The reader comments are very interesting. This person gave a lot of compelling information which was worth reading and for some of you who practice Emotion/body code healing, some food for thought on how this particular form of Energy healing has evolved over time;
blah, blah, blah... For people to blindly believe they have the authority to “cast out evil spirits” by simply saying the words he says to use, including in the name of Jesus Christ, or your Higher Power, or whatever you believe in…is putting that person in a very dangerous spiritual battle.
Would you like a list of books written by professionals about casting out evil spirits (the great majority of professionals being non-members)--not based on the priesthood--and their success? Or do you assume, naively, that a great many things can ONLY be done by the priesthood, and all of God's other children are just to suffer, with no other recourse?

I say this with first hand knowledge of a practitioner that has been certified and charging clients, yet that has been talking about having demons talking in her head, and has now been committed to a psychiatric ward herself.
A woman I home taught had demons in her head, from believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ and attending church. No doubt this means the same thing will happen to you, and that believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ and attending church directly resulted in those demons in her head. NOT.
There is also a rebuttal from the person responsible for the 'Christ centered' energy healing conference in the comments that was interesting.

I am concerned about Energy healers who claim to use God's power to heal...

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AI2.0
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by AI2.0 »

JohnnyL wrote: April 12th, 2017, 6:55 am Let's play musical chairs!!

Let's avoid answering all the hard questions when we get called out on our comments, then run to a tangential topic and start up another conversation!

See, it's not about understanding, the search for truth, or discussion, but trying, somehow, to shove, twist, manipulate, distort, exaggerate, or do whatever else is needed to control the life and superiority of our personal paradigm over that of all others.
What hard questions? Did I miss some questions from you, because what I saw were confrontational, rambling, dismissive posts by you. If there was an actual sincere question in there, I missed it. I'll go back to the other thread and look.

Not that I have to explain myself to you, but in case you somehow missed the difference, I started another thread because this is another topic. The other one is about a leaked letter by a Stake President, this topic is about a news program regarding the business of Christ centered healing. I assure you, I am capable of responding to both threads.

You seem pretty upset over my threads, I understand since you are an Energy practitioner and the things I'm posting do not put Energy healing in a positive light. I'm sorry for that, but it can't be helped. I feel that people should have sufficient information to be able to decide for themselves if Energy Healing is something that LDS members should be involved in.

e-eye2.0
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by e-eye2.0 »

I could see the want for more clarification. I am sure we could all enjoy more clarification on those gray areas. It would almost seem as those who wanted to justify doing energy healing could do it and those who are against it can clearly see that this quote warned against it.

I do think all of God's power is priesthood power - we could have another thread going through this but the simple answer for me is yet his power is priesthood power.

God commands in many ways and then there is that gray area which is rather large that we must wade through and exercise our agency to understand and decide for ourselves. Some decisions it's between good and bad and others may be between better and best. Obviously the best practice is priesthood power but that doesn't throw out modern medicine and doing everything we can. Satan likes to play his hand in this because it's an opportunity to decdeve because yes he will do something that appears to be good for his benefit. I do believe Satan would never do anything good but he will do things with an evil intent to deceive and that can include healing.

For me energy healing is black and white - I stay away from it, discourage it and think it's wrong. There are things that there is a gray area like tea - i know some tea's are good other's not but I avoid all tea- I just don't have to worry if I am drinking the right or wrong stuff and I don't need a good herbal tea now and then and never have needed it - it's simple I just avoid it all. There are hundreds of things on the good, better, best list that I fall way short of the best things I should be doing but the goal in this life isn't perfection it's to work towards it. Energy healing is an easy one for me - no thanks.

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AI2.0
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by AI2.0 »

My responses to your questions in red:
JohnnyL wrote: April 12th, 2017, 8:11 am
AI2.0 wrote: April 11th, 2017, 10:07 am Last September KUTV News2 ran a story about 'The business behind Christ centered Energy healing'.

http://ldsanswers.org/lds-church-statem ... y-healing/

After the report was aired, the LDS church put out a statement regarding the story of the business of Christ centered energy healing;
“We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders,” (LDS church spokesman Eric Hawkins)
LDSanswers, who reported on this, also pointed to this incident recorded in the New Testament;
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me. (Acts 8:18–24)
And yet, others have pointed out this, many times:
Lord, he used your name to heal, etc. Which actually has a direct connection with healing, while the Simon story doesn't. Did you read the scriptures quoted? This is not about someone using Christ's name to heal. This is the story of Simon Magus asking to buy the power of healing from Peter. He was told 'thy money perish with thee, because thou has thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.' Peter also warned him that his heart was not right in the sight of God and he needed to repent of a serious wickedness. As for the story of the men casting out devils, did they ask to buy Jesus' power? THAT is what is being condemned here. That is THE obvious problem with Energy healing which is done in Christ's name and the practitioner charges money for it. There's plenty more wrong with it, but that was the point of the scripture which was shared.

The reader comments are very interesting. This person gave a lot of compelling information which was worth reading and for some of you who practice Emotion/body code healing, some food for thought on how this particular form of Energy healing has evolved over time;
blah, blah, blah... For people to blindly believe they have the authority to “cast out evil spirits” by simply saying the words he says to use, including in the name of Jesus Christ, or your Higher Power, or whatever you believe in…is putting that person in a very dangerous spiritual battle.
Would you like a list of books written by professionals about casting out evil spirits (the great majority of professionals being non-members)--not based on the priesthood--and their success? Or do you assume, naively, that a great many things can ONLY be done by the priesthood, and all of God's other children are just to suffer, with no other recourse?No, I don't need a list of books on the subject of evil spirits, I'm not plagued with them. Again, you've made incorrect assumptions about me in your haste to attack and attempt to discredit me. I believe that non-LDS, women and other non preisthood holders can cast out evil spirits--this does not require priesthood power, but as I said, I don't need that service and if I did, I can do that myself.

I say this with first hand knowledge of a practitioner that has been certified and charging clients, yet that has been talking about having demons talking in her head, and has now been committed to a psychiatric ward herself.
A woman I home taught had demons in her head, from believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ and attending church.You really believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ caused her to believe this? You don't think it was emotional issues? The active LDS people I know have never said that the gospel makes one vulnerable to 'demons in the head' so I'm pretty sure your friend was an aberration, it's certainly NOT a symptom of being a member of the church. No doubt this means the same thing will happen to you, and that believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ and attending church directly resulted in those demons in her head. NOT.
I don't even know why you would say such a thing. I think your rational thoughts are hampered by your emotional outbursts on this subject....

There is also a rebuttal from the person responsible for the 'Christ centered' energy healing conference in the comments that was interesting.

I am concerned about Energy healers who claim to use God's power to heal...

brianj
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by brianj »

JohnnyL wrote: April 12th, 2017, 6:56 am
brianj wrote: April 11th, 2017, 9:36 pm I don't recall seeing that statement last year, but then again I wouldn't have seen anything from KUTV.

What I would love to see is a study comparing energy healing to the placebo effect. I don't believe that Satan has the power to heal so I suspect it's all in peoples' minds.
Well, let me ask (everyone): is the placebo effect from God, or Satan?
Good question.
The placebo effect is based on faith, and faith is a principle God created for us.
But the placebo effect is based on faith placed in some sugar pills the recipient is told will cure something, so it's a misplaced faith which is what Satan wants us to do.

I don't know if the placebo effect is a good thing or not. It causes people to improve their lives and that's good, right? But they are placing faith in modern medicine instead of God which makes it a bad thing. But we are taught that we should use modern medicine and get a blessing, so having some level of faith in modern medicine must not be bad.

You've got me. I have no idea if the placebo effect is from God or Satan. I suspect it's originally from God but it has been bastardized by Satan, like so many other principles.

JohnnyL
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by JohnnyL »

AI2.0 wrote: April 12th, 2017, 4:22 pm
JohnnyL wrote: April 12th, 2017, 6:55 am Let's play musical chairs!!

Let's avoid answering all the hard questions when we get called out on our comments, then run to a tangential topic and start up another conversation!

See, it's not about understanding, the search for truth, or discussion, but trying, somehow, to shove, twist, manipulate, distort, exaggerate, or do whatever else is needed to control the life and superiority of our personal paradigm over that of all others.
What hard questions? Did I miss some questions from you, because what I saw were confrontational, rambling, dismissive posts by you. If there was an actual sincere question in there, I missed it. I'll go back to the other thread and look.

Not that I have to explain myself to you, but in case you somehow missed the difference, I started another thread because this is another topic. The other one is about a leaked letter by a Stake President, this topic is about a news program regarding the business of Christ centered healing. I assure you, I am capable of responding to both threads.

You seem pretty upset over my threads, I understand since you are an Energy practitioner and the things I'm posting do not put Energy healing in a positive light. I'm sorry for that, but it can't be helped. I feel that people should have sufficient information to be able to decide for themselves if Energy Healing is something that LDS members should be involved in./
Uh, questions are sentences followed by this: "?" So you and many others have missed quite a few.

This thread is a new thread on an old topic that's been discussed before.

No, it's not about feeling huuuuuuurt by your posts. You Just Don't Get It, do you?? Your beliefs are in such danger, you are so terrified they might be wrong, you do anything to prop them up, without even being cognizant of it, or accepting that you are doing it. It's impossible to have logical discussions with most of the con-EH crowd for that reason (in addition to ignorance). It's understandable, because one of the strongest psychological defense mechanisms humans have (so you're not alone, lol) to keep our paradigm from falling apart. (It's like an experience I had when a girl plowed into the back of another car, her head is hurt, her windshield is spider-webbed, the car in front of her is damaged and a woman on the ground, witnesses are telling her what she did, and she is denying she hit anyone.) But to the outsider looking in, or those willing to face truth, people like this present a very weird view--bias, double standards, hypocrisy, lack of logic, and denial, etc.

JohnnyL
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Re: LDS church statement on the business of 'Christ centered' energy healing

Post by JohnnyL »

brianj wrote: April 12th, 2017, 8:36 pm
JohnnyL wrote: April 12th, 2017, 6:56 am
brianj wrote: April 11th, 2017, 9:36 pm I don't recall seeing that statement last year, but then again I wouldn't have seen anything from KUTV.

What I would love to see is a study comparing energy healing to the placebo effect. I don't believe that Satan has the power to heal so I suspect it's all in peoples' minds.
Well, let me ask (everyone): is the placebo effect from God, or Satan?
Good question.
The placebo effect is based on faith, and faith is a principle God created for us.
But the placebo effect is based on faith placed in some sugar pills the recipient is told will cure something, so it's a misplaced faith which is what Satan wants us to do.

I don't know if the placebo effect is a good thing or not. It causes people to improve their lives and that's good, right? But they are placing faith in modern medicine instead of God which makes it a bad thing. But we are taught that we should use modern medicine and get a blessing, so having some level of faith in modern medicine must not be bad.

You've got me. I have no idea if the placebo effect is from God or Satan. I suspect it's originally from God but it has been bastardized by Satan, like so many other principles.
If it's originally by God, how was/is it meant to be used?
If it's bastardized by Satan, in what way(s)?
Questions for everyone.

Are there natural laws we are unaware of? What would primitive peoples feel about technology? I can generally tell you: "It's of the devil." Is it? Is technology originally from God, and has Satan bastardized it?

How about intuition? What is it? (Please don't say it's the Spirit.) Is it from God? Has Satan used it?

If a man discovers a natural law, and uses it, is he breaking a commandment? fighting against God? serving Satan? Maybe, isn't that just what the Lord made, both the law, and the method of use?

How many not understood, how many avoided, how many interesting things there are in this world!! You know meridian points are so incredibly easy and natural to learn about and know, yet Western medicine has denied their existence and still does...

Have you read the "Life" thread? That's just a small part of amazing stuff, and there are book-fulls of incredible discoveries.

Anyway, Joseph Smith said it, however at odds he may be with some current apostles: there are three spirits, NOT two: God, man, Satan.

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