As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be

[LdsMarco]

Latter-day Saints have been criticized for believing that the Savior really meant what he said, and that becoming like our Father in Heaven and the Savior is a commandment - not just a suggestion. Over the years, many vindictive books and articles have been written condemning our beliefs as blasphemous. How dare we believe that we could and even should try to become like our Father in Heaven

We are attacked for these beliefs even though the Bible, which is accepted as scripture by all Christians, makes frequent reference to the fact that we are children of and should become like our Father in Heaven. Note the following small sampling of the many biblical scriptures on the topic:

'Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.' (Matthew 5:48)

'I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High' (Psalm 82:6). The Savior even referred to this idea: 'Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?' (John 10:34)

'And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together' (Romans 8:17).

[Robin Hood]

But the scriptures you quote do not say that God was once a man, and that we can become a God in our own right; which is what you mean.
I believe our doctrine, in the way it is understood by most LDS, is wrong.

[diligently seeking]

Latter-day Saints have been criticized for believing that the Savior really meant what he said, and that becoming like our Father in Heaven and the Savior is a commandment - not just a suggestion. Over the years, many vindictive books and articles have been written condemning our beliefs as blasphemous. How dare we believe that we could and even should try to become like our Father in Heaven

We are attacked for these beliefs even though the Bible, which is accepted as scripture by all Christians, makes frequent reference to the fact that we are children of and should become like our Father in Heaven. Note the following small sampling of the many biblical scriptures on the topic:

'Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.' (Matthew 5:48)

'I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High' (Psalm 82:6). The Savior even referred to this idea: 'Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?' (John 10:34)

'And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together' (Romans 8:17).

I like your video. I'm assuming that is you? We are so greatful for God's word, yes? His written word in our cannon of scriptures or when our leaders speak by the power of the Holy Ghost is far from the final word, though. Thanks for encouraging personal revelation through the experience you shared. Moses's and Joseph's and others similar expressions are the key--"would to God that all of his children were prophets..." heavenly knowledge is not nor will ever be solely obtained through the thumping of ones chest because of the volume of information one has consumed / read or shared with us by man. It is in those genuine moments of true contrition and humility / a broken heart and contrite spirit when our dear Savior can enter in. He is the author and finisher of our faith...

[diligently seeking]

ABIDE

John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you...

[gclayjr]

Robin Hood,

But the scriptures you quote do not say that God was once a man, and that we can become a God in our own right; which is what you mean.
I believe our doctrine, in the way it is understood by most LDS, is wrong.

I'm not sure if this is another case of 2 countries being separated by a common language or not. I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying in regards to those men who are covenanted, and are true to their covenants being able to eventually becoming Gods in their own right, that you believe in it, but not in the manner generally accepted by the people in the LDS church?

What is it that you believe, that you see as LDS doctrine, but different from LDS members' understanding of this LDS doctrine?

Regards,

George Clay

[diligently seeking]

Read the verses before and after designated scriptures, below. This will give greater context to these VALUABLE truths. These are copied and pasted from our topicle guide.

A great stumbling block anciently and through any time in our exsistance where God's truths are available is inhaling the damming notion of WE HAVE ARRIVED. When pride swells --we apply the brakes considerably or completely (all is well in Zion) when it comes to hungering and thirsting after righteousness / being steadfast and immovable in moving forward to obtain God's will for us in our mortal Journey. Hence the great need to obtain the important mystery of godliness like Paul did "when I am weak, I am strong..."

Contrite Heart
See also Humility; Meek; Poor in Spirit; Repent; Teachable
if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, Lev. 26:41.
saveth such as be of a contrite spirit, Ps. 34:18.
sacrifices of God … broken and a contrite heart, Ps. 51:17.
I dwell … with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, Isa. 57:15.
I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, Isa. 66:2.
for I am meek and lowly in heart, Matt. 11:29.
no more worthy to be called thy son, Luke 15:21.
God be merciful to me a sinner, Luke 18:13.
a broken heart and a contrite spirit, 2 Ne. 2:7 (4:32; 3 Ne. 9:20; 12:19; Morm. 2:14; Ether 4:15; Moro. 6:2; D&C 20:37; 59:8).
remission of sins unto the contrite heart, D&C 21:9.
he that prayeth, whose spirit is contrite, D&C 52:15.
hearts are broken, and whose spirits are contrite, D&C 56:18.
Spirit is sent … to enlighten the humble and contrite, D&C 136:33.
See also Ps. 147:3; Isa. 61:1; Joel 2:12–13; Matt. 5:3; Heb. 3:15; Moro. 8:25.

[LDS Physician]

But the scriptures you quote do not say that God was once a man, and that we can become a God in our own right; which is what you mean.
I believe our doctrine, in the way it is understood by most LDS, is wrong.

As mentioned above, I too would love to hear what you feel the doctrine truly is...the one that is misunderstood by most LDS.

[mes5464]

Latter-day Saints have been criticized for believing that the Savior really meant what he said, and that becoming like our Father in Heaven and the Savior is a commandment - not just a suggestion. Over the years, many vindictive books and articles have been written condemning our beliefs as blasphemous. How dare we believe that we could and even should try to become like our Father in Heaven

We are attacked for these beliefs even though the Bible, which is accepted as scripture by all Christians, makes frequent reference to the fact that we are children of and should become like our Father in Heaven. Note the following small sampling of the many biblical scriptures on the topic:

'Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.' (Matthew 5:48)

'I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High' (Psalm 82:6). The Savior even referred to this idea: 'Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?' (John 10:34)

'And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together' (Romans 8:17).

Here is another good one for you.

Philippians 2

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[Robin Hood]

Robin Hood,

But the scriptures you quote do not say that God was once a man, and that we can become a God in our own right; which is what you mean.
I believe our doctrine, in the way it is understood by most LDS, is wrong.

I'm not sure if this is another case of 2 countries being separated by a common language or not. I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying in regards to those men who are covenanted, and are true to their covenants being able to eventually becoming Gods in their own right, that you believe in it, but not in the manner generally accepted by the people in the LDS church?

What is it that you believe, that you see as LDS doctrine, but different from LDS members' understanding of this LDS doctrine?

Regards,

George Clay

Thanks George.
I don't think it's a language thing; I just have a different take on things.

The common belief in the church appears to be that we overcome sin and imperfections, receive exaltation as a reward, create worlds, father (or give birth to) billions of spirits, save them from sin through some kind of atoning mechanism such as a saviour...... and so on, and on, and on, and on.....
In other words we become God with a capital "G".

I refute this doctrine because it is not scriptural. Even D&C 132 (which I admit I find suspect) refers to those who receive exaltation as "gods". The lower case "g" is clearly both deliberate and significant. Very significant.

Should we achieve exaltation we may get to participate in creative activities and so on, but the whole of creation will pray to and worship the same being we do. We will never be the object of worship, nor should we be. Christ gave God the Father all the glory, and so will we. We will be anonymous.

I see the whole thing rather as an opportunity to get involved in the family business, the mission statement for which is found in Moses 1:39.

[diligently seeking]

You got to admit though- -"to receive all that the Father hath" helps to sharpen the focus and gladden the heart on what exaltation will be...

[gclayjr]

Robin Hood,

Eternity and things without beginning and end are hard concepts for those of us in a world that time runs serially in 1 direction to understand.

There are a lot of details regarding eternal progression left for us to guess.

My personal guess is somewhere in between.

My personal vision (guess), is that when God/Jesus Christ created the Universe ... I kind of see it as them directing the work, and that various celestial beings are those who actually completed the various tasks under their direction. In that way, I think that I may agree with you. I don't think that as soon as we enter the Celestial Kingdom, we can immediately create Universes of our own. I think that there will be a long apprenticeship as we help God and Jesus Christ in their continuing Universe. I may see it a bit differently, in thinking that maybe sometime way in the future, our apprenticeship may end and we can become creators of universes ourselves.

But that is just my personal guess. I think anybody who claims more than that is full of BS.

Regards,

Georeg Clay